Re: NanoVNA AURSINC v H, Q-0.4.3, images
Yes, for whatever reason you got a lower apparent reflection coefficient on the left-hand unit.
This is reflected (so to speak) in the noisier-looking phase trace.
Results with an S21 measurement of a fairly lossy DUT (say, about a 30 to 40 dB attenuator)
should be more revealing of the relative merits of the two units.
Dana (K8YUM)
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On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 02:06 PM, David F4HTQ wrote:
" The values do not match those of the constructor curve ( to have the right value the software might know the exact geometry of the inductor) , but the shape is absolutely identical.
This allow to easy identify unknown ferrite core, and to better understand how to use it in a RF device.
For example, here is the true curve of material 43 of Fair rite.
And here's the one I got with NanoVNASaver
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David that helps to explain the purpose of the new charts. I was wondering if you might answer the following questions when you get some time.
1. I visited your web site but did not see an article about ferrite core measurements. What test set-up did you use to generate the Complex-Perm-vs-Freq plots?
2. Since you used the shape of the curves rather than the permittivity values to identify the type material, do you have atypical plots for different material types (i.e. 31, 43, 61) and how well did they match the corresponding Fair-rite corporation curves?
I also have accumulated numerous ferrite material over the years. Some marked but the majority unmarked. I'd love to have a way of sorting them by type and doing so visually by the shape of their curve, as you propose, would be good enough for me.
Regards,
- Herb
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Re: Replacement Power switch
I have 50 pieces of it (could not buy less) . I get them on Ebay search string "50PCS Slide Switch SK12D07VG2 Toggle Switch 2mm Stents Toggle Switch UK".
U must have exact the right type. You can mail me a PM.
on1bes Herman
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Re: WINDOZE BASED APPS for the NANO VNA
There are only two kinds of software : the DFU files for Firmware install, and the different software(s) for use the NanoVNA on laptop/PC.
And you can find tim all in the Wiki.
on1bes
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Re: WINDOZE BASED APPS for the NANO VNA
Hi David,
the .dfu files are firmware versions for the NanoVNA.
There are several Windows apps available for the NanoVNA. I made
NanoVNA-Saver:
Other options are NanoVNASharp and TAPR VNA.
Good luck with your NanoVNA :-)
--
Rune / 5Q5R
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On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 at 23:38, David Eckhardt <davearea51a@...> wrote: Are there any and where online do I find them? The file extensions I am
seeing are "DFU" which is an Apple thing.
No tthat I particularly believe in Windows, but all my engineering and
scientific applications run under Windows and not Apple.
This is my first post to this group, so please forgive me if this has been
asked previously. .
--
Dave - W?LEV
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I Bob,
It very basic.
I made one turn on BN43-202 ferrite core and connect it to CH0 of Nano VNA.
And put frequency range to 100Khz -> 30MHz with logarithmic scale on all axes.
David.
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-----Message d'origine----- De : [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] De la part de Bob Albert via Groups.Io Envoy¨¦ : jeudi 14 novembre 2019 23:33 ? : [email protected]Objet : Re: [nanovna-users] NanoVNA-Saver 0.2.0 David, can you explain exactly how you got the curves? I would like to do it also. Bob On Thursday, November 14, 2019, 02:06:06 PM PST, David F4HTQ <f4htq@...> wrote: Hi All, I add some explanations. I asked Rune if he could add this graphic because it is very useful. It display curves that have exactly the same shape as the complex permitivity curves (¦Ì'r and ¦Ì''r) of the ferrite datasheets. The values do not match those of the constructor curve ( to have the right value the software might know the exact geometry of the inductor) , but the shape is absolutely identical. This allow to easy identify unknown ferrite core, and to better understand how to use it in a RF device. For example, here is the true curve of material 43 of Fair rite. And here's the one I got with NanoVNASaver It works really well. David, F4HTQ. -----Message d'origine----- De : [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] De la part de Rune Broberg Envoy¨¦ : mercredi 13 novembre 2019 08:23 ? : [email protected] Objet : Re: [nanovna-users] NanoVNA-Saver 0.2.0 Hi John, my experiments in this field have been very limited - the feature was added with the encouragement of David F4HTQ. He submitted to me an S2P file of a measurement of a toroid, and a curve shape: He believed this could be approximated as R/¦Ø and X/¦Ø, so I implemented it, and managed to create the following graph: [image: image.png] Which seemed to fit quite well, even though the units aren't exactly the same. So, for now, all I know how to do is: Given a permeability chart from a manufacturer, replicate the same curve shape vs frequency using the NanoVNA. I hope it's useful ;-) -- Rune / 5Q5R On Wed, 13 Nov 2019 at 01:22, John AE5X <ae5x@...> wrote: Now that the capability is there in the software, how would one use
the NanoVNA to check a toroid's permeability? New territory for me...
:-)
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WINDOZE BASED APPS for the NANO VNA
Are there any and where online do I find them? The file extensions I am seeing are "DFU" which is an Apple thing.
No tthat I particularly believe in Windows, but all my engineering and scientific applications run under Windows and not Apple.
This is my first post to this group, so please forgive me if this has been asked previously. .
--
Dave - W?LEV
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? is the magnetic analog of ¦Å, the dielectric constant. ?0 is the
permittivity of free space ¦Å0 is the permeability of free space. The
?r which you are seeking is the relative permitivity of the ferrite (or
what ever) and represents a multiplier to ?0.
Dave - W?LEV
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On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 10:07 PM Larry Naumann <n0sa@...> wrote: Okay, I have been reading a bunch of stuff on ferrite cores.
My main interest right now is xfmrs for EFHW antennas.
I see charts with u' and u" (mu' and mu").
I can't seem to find an explanation of what u" is.
Can someone enlighten me?
Thanks
Larry
n0sa
--
*Dave - W?LEV*
*Just Let Darwin Work*
*Just Think*
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David, can you explain exactly how you got the curves?? I would like to do it also.
Bob
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On Thursday, November 14, 2019, 02:06:06 PM PST, David F4HTQ <f4htq@...> wrote: Hi All, I? add some explanations. I asked Rune if he could add this graphic because it is very useful. It display curves that have exactly the same shape as the complex permitivity curves (¦Ì'r and ¦Ì''r) of the ferrite datasheets. The values do not match those of the constructor curve ( to have the right value the software might know the exact geometry of the inductor) , but the shape is absolutely identical. This allow to easy? identify unknown ferrite core, and to better understand how to use it in a RF device. For example, here is the true curve of material 43 of Fair rite. And here's the one I got with NanoVNASaver It works really well. David, F4HTQ. -----Message d'origine----- De : [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] De la part de Rune Broberg Envoy¨¦ : mercredi 13 novembre 2019 08:23 ? : [email protected]Objet : Re: [nanovna-users] NanoVNA-Saver 0.2.0 Hi John, my experiments in this field have been very limited - the feature was added with the encouragement of David F4HTQ. He submitted to me an S2P file of a measurement of a toroid, and a curve shape: He believed this could be approximated as R/¦Ø and X/¦Ø, so I implemented it, and managed to create the following graph: [image: image.png] Which seemed to fit quite well, even though the units aren't exactly the same. So, for now, all I know how to do is: Given a permeability chart from a manufacturer, replicate the same curve shape vs frequency using the NanoVNA. I hope it's useful ;-) -- Rune / 5Q5R On Wed, 13 Nov 2019 at 01:22, John AE5X <ae5x@...> wrote: Now that the capability is there in the software, how would one use
the NanoVNA to check a toroid's permeability? New territory for me...
:-)
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Re: Parameter Explanation Please
On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 01:52 PM, Larry Naumann wrote:
Thanks for all the good links, looks like I have a lot of reading to do. I am trying to learn all this stuff and it takes me awhile to get my head wrapped around all of it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Larry, Don't let the terms overwhelm you. If you've never used a VNA before, it can be a "can't see the forest for the trees" kind of thing, but depending on what you want to do with the NanoVNA there are a lot of information you can ignore until a problem presents itself where you actually need to learn the terms. I worked in the electronics industry for 30 years and about the only time I actually needed to apply the terms and formulas you referred to was when I was designing filters or matching networks. If you are still in school and studying electrical engineering you will definitely need to be familiar with the terms. If you just want to check the VSWR of your antennas then you can ignore them until you want to broaden your knowledge. - Herb
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Hi Larry,
You can found some details on the document linked to this message.
David.
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-----Message d'origine----- De : [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] De la part de Larry Naumann Envoy¨¦ : jeudi 14 novembre 2019 23:07 ? : [email protected]Objet : [nanovna-users] A Question on Mu? Okay, I have been reading a bunch of stuff on ferrite cores. My main interest right now is xfmrs for EFHW antennas. I see charts with u' and u" (mu' and mu"). I can't seem to find an explanation of what u" is. Can someone enlighten me? Thanks Larry n0sa
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As usual, I found the answer right after I asked the question.
One is lossless permeability the the is lossy permeability.
Found the answer in a Fair-Rite printout.
Larry
n0sa
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Okay, I have been reading a bunch of stuff on ferrite cores.
My main interest right now is xfmrs for EFHW antennas.
I see charts with u' and u" (mu' and mu").
I can't seem to find an explanation of what u" is.
Can someone enlighten me?
Thanks
Larry
n0sa
|
Hi All,
I add some explanations.
I asked Rune if he could add this graphic because it is very useful.
It display curves that have exactly the same shape as the complex permitivity curves (¦Ì'r and ¦Ì''r) of the ferrite datasheets.
The values do not match those of the constructor curve ( to have the right value the software might know the exact geometry of the inductor) , but the shape is absolutely identical.
This allow to easy identify unknown ferrite core, and to better understand how to use it in a RF device.
For example, here is the true curve of material 43 of Fair rite.
And here's the one I got with NanoVNASaver
It works really well.
David, F4HTQ.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Message d'origine----- De : [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] De la part de Rune Broberg Envoy¨¦ : mercredi 13 novembre 2019 08:23 ? : [email protected]Objet : Re: [nanovna-users] NanoVNA-Saver 0.2.0 Hi John, my experiments in this field have been very limited - the feature was added with the encouragement of David F4HTQ. He submitted to me an S2P file of a measurement of a toroid, and a curve shape: He believed this could be approximated as R/¦Ø and X/¦Ø, so I implemented it, and managed to create the following graph: [image: image.png] Which seemed to fit quite well, even though the units aren't exactly the same. So, for now, all I know how to do is: Given a permeability chart from a manufacturer, replicate the same curve shape vs frequency using the NanoVNA. I hope it's useful ;-) -- Rune / 5Q5R On Wed, 13 Nov 2019 at 01:22, John AE5X <ae5x@...> wrote: Now that the capability is there in the software, how would one use
the NanoVNA to check a toroid's permeability? New territory for me...
:-)
|
Re: Parameter Explanation Please
Thanks for all the good links, looks like I have a lot of reading to do.
I am trying to learn all this stuff and it takes me awhile to get my head wrapped around all of it.
Larry
n0sa
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Re: Parameter Explanation Please
On 11/14/19 9:54 AM, Bob Albert via Groups.Io wrote: Larry, this is basic electric circuit theory.? Any linear bilateral complex impedance can be expressed as an equivalent circuit of two components, a resistance and a reactance.? You can express them either as a series combination or as a parallel combination.? So all the parameters you mention are the results of that calculation.
A series combination is usually expressed as R + jX, and the R is called series R, or Rs. ???? And given the impedance in series format, it is possible to convert to an equivalent parallel circuit - and vice versa.? The equivalency will only be valid over a limited frequency range. ???? There are a lot of places on the web that can help you with this stuff.? For example, microwaves101.com.? Some specific pages, in no particular order: ???? Wikipedia also has some good stuff: ???? A good source of information on all things RF (Radio Frequency) is the ARRL Handbook for Radio Communications.
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Re: NanoVNA AURSINC v H, Q-0.4.3, images
You have connected the 50 ohm load to CH0 and you are looking at noise on CH1 More noise implies better isolation and that is what you want (I think....) -- NanoVNA Wiki: /g/nanovna-users/wiki/homeNanoVNA Files: /g/nanovna-users/filesErik, PD0EK
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Hello all,
I broke the power switch on my nano. Does anyone have a part number to it?
I did some searching but could not find it.
Thank you
Marco
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NanoVNA AURSINC v H, Q-0.4.3, images
I have 2 NanoVNA, one bought from AURSINC on Amazon, which I originally thought was not a knockoff, and one bought from a link provided by Hugen, that I learned of only after getting the AURSINC and finding this forum.
I set up both units (AURSINC on left) with the same traces and freq range.
Both are running Q-0.4.3.
I calibrated both units with ~3.5m RG316 connected to each port, and 2 50 O terminators.
Immediately after each calibration, I put on a 50 O cal terminator, and took the picture.
Exclude image quality...I took the images w my mobile, and they are notoriously easy to lose focus at close distances.
--
73 de Rich NE1EE
On the banks of the Piscataqua
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Oh - and as for the size of a larger battery - several forum members including myself have used larger cellphone batteries up to 1500mAH.
You can just solder the wires directly to the + & - pins of the battery.? The IP5303 essentially charges the battery according to its instantaneous voltage instead of just pushing constant current into it, just like it would be charged in a cellphone - just don't use a really old cell for this.
Any 18650 cell will be way more than enough for the nano's needs.
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On Thursday, November 14, 2019, 1:10:11 p.m. GMT-5, Larry Rothman <nlroth@...> wrote: All lithium -cells- need to come with overcharge, overcurrent (ie:shorting its terminals), undervoltage and overtemp protection (and balancing sometimes is also built-in). And that is just that small board on the cell itself !?? The IP5303's charging circuit knows nothing about the physical condition of the Li cell.If the IP5303 fails catastrophically, you want the battery to protect itself. I have several two-way radio batteries that have disabled themselves due to a fault somewhere but when I opened them up, the individual cells were fine. I also have 3.6V cells where the protection module shut off the output voltage. I use those cells in other projects. Better safe than fire...... ? ? On Thursday, November 14, 2019, 12:45:10 p.m. GMT-5, Nick <g3vnc@...> wrote: I am currently repackaging my nvna and would like to include a (much) bigger battery. What is the biggest battery capacity (Amp-Hours) I could use with the IP5303 charging circuit?? Looks to me like there is no limit since the IP5303 will limit the charging current so the initial constant current phase of charging will simply take longer. Why does the? 450mAh battery supplied with the device include a built in circuit for over drain protection etc?? The IP5303 already has "Input over-voltage, over-current, battery over-charge, over-drain, over-current protection" built in. I'm thinking a fat cell phone Lithium Ion battery should be fine as reported by Larry Rothman here... /g/nanovna-users/photo/0/40?p=Created,,,20,1,40,0 (I was at a flea market a couple of months ago and there was a seller who had a lot of new cylindrical LiIon cells about 3Ah as I recall.? They were very cheap, but I did not have a nvna then.? I wish now that I had bought a few.)
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Jim Allyn - N7JA
Rich NE1EE
