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Re: Nano VNA BASIC WORKSHOP via Zoom

 

Are there recordings?

On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 7:21 AM Barry K3EUI <k3euibarry@...> wrote:

The ¡°Five County Digital Training Net¡± (Philadelphia region) is hosting a
series of Zoom Workshops on Monday evenings at 7-9 pm. The topic: Nano VNA
Fundamentals
All are welcome to join.
Link:


We have already held two sessions covering the fundamentals of what a VNA
is capable of measuring and the second session covered how to CALIBRATE the
VNA over a frequency range.

The 3rd Zoom session on November 14th will cover what a Nano VNA measures
and what it calculates: the forward and the reflected signals are compared
(S11) and the following are calculated:

1) Reflection Coefficient (rho) - a fraction from 0 to 1.0 representing
the ratio of returning signal to incident signal. In an antenna, you do not
want any reflected (return) signal, so the ideal reflection coefficient is
zero.

2) Return Loss (dB) - this is based on the reflection coefficient and
represents the loss of signal, but measured in decibels (dB) rather than as
a percent or fraction. Hams rarely use this measurement. Why?

3) SWR - standing wave ratio - We all use this term but what does it
mean? What is an ¡°acceptable¡± SWR in terms of antenna performance.

I will tie these three measurements into what a Smith Chart reveals.

Come join the discussion.
I am not an RF Engineer - so I try to keep this at a moderate level of
mathematics.

De k3eui
Barry (k3euibarry - at - gmail.com)
Five County Digital Net manager
Philadelphia PA
November 13 2022







--
-Chris


Re: Artefacts when capturing the screen #consolecommands #firmware #nanovna-h

 

On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 08:01 PM, DiSlord wrote:


(you can see it also on Nano or Tiny LCD at right bottom)
Strange, my LCD screens of nano and tiny do not show any artefacts, only the captured data on PC. But it's only a minimal issue in any case.


Re: nanovna_remote.py - Python tool for remote control of the NanoVNA-H from the PC #nanovna-h #scripting #python #nanovna-tools

 

On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 06:29 PM, G8DQX list wrote:


*However*, the *H4* variant of the nanoVNA and the new tinySA *Ultra* use 4"
480¡Á320 screens.
Robin,
Good hint, should work for the bigger ones now - untested because of the HW not (yet) available.
Martin

usage: nanovna_remote.py [-h] [-d DEVICE] [-n | --h4 | -t | --ultra] [-z {2,3,4}]

optional arguments:
-h, --help show this help message and exit
-d DEVICE, --device DEVICE
connect to serial usb device
-n, --nanovna use with NanoVNA-H (default)
--h4 use with NanoVNA-H4
-t, --tinysa use with tinySA
--ultra use with tinySA Ultra
-z {2,3,4}, --zoom {2,3,4}

as well as

usage: nanovna_capture.py [-h] [-d DEVICE] [-n | --h4 | -t | --ultra] [-o OUT]

optional arguments:
-h, --help show this help message and exit
-d DEVICE, --device DEVICE
connect to device
-n, --nanovna use with NanoVNA-H (default)
--h4 use with NanoVNA-H4
-t, --tinysa use with tinySA
--ultra use with tinySA Ultra
-o OUT, --out OUT write the data into file OUT


Re: Artefacts when capturing the screen #consolecommands #firmware #nanovna-h

 

I think this related to LCD driver, on screen capture i read LCD memory and send to CPU (you can see it also on Nano or Tiny LCD at right bottom)

Artefact present on all LCD displays based on ILI9341 driver
On LiteVNA and st7789 LCD driver no visible artefacts.


Re: nanovna_remote.py - Python tool for remote control of the NanoVNA-H from the PC #nanovna-h #scripting #python #nanovna-tools

 

Martin,

1) thanks for doing this, it's much appreciated.

2) the link below took one straight to the code, where lines 60-64 show:


# The size of the screen
width = 320
height = 240
which is OK for an original nanoVNA(-H) or a tinySA. *However*, the *H4* variant of the nanoVNA and the new tinySA *Ultra* use 4" 480¡Á320 screens.

I've not had a sensible opportunity to check the script out with my own H4 or tinySA, but thought I'd mention it now, to get a view from yourself.

73, Stay Safe,

Robin, G8DQX

On 12/11/2022 09:19, Ho-Ro wrote:

Hi,
as written just around the corner/g/tinysa/topic/tinysa_remote_py_python/94944540 there's a new tool in my toolbox:



Remote control for the NanoVNA or tinySA - mirror the screen to your PC and operate the device with the mouse. The keys + and - zoom in and out, s takes a screenshot with timestamp, ESC quits the program.

usage: nanovna_remote.py [-h] [-d DEVICE] [-t | -n] [-z {2,3,4}]

optional arguments:
-h, --help show this help message and exit
-d DEVICE, --device DEVICE
connect to serial usb device
-n, --nanovna use with NanoVNA (default)
-t, --tinysa use with tinySA
-z {2,3,4}, --zoom {2,3,4}
zoom the screen image

Martin


Artefacts when capturing the screen #consolecommands #firmware #nanovna-h

 

The screen capture shows artefacts at the bottom of the image in the far right column. This is independent of the respective device and the recording program used; tinySA also shows the same artefacts. NanoVNA version 1.2.15, the issue existed also with versions 1.0.64 and 1.1.x, also latest tinySA version.

see also
and

Another user's tinySA also shows this, so it is obviously a systematic problem.
/g/tinysa/message/7071

Martin


Re: Nano VNA BASIC WORKSHOP via Zoom

Doug
 

Hi Barry. This sounds like a really invaluable project. It is just too bad that we didn't know about it sooner, so that we could take in all five sessions.

Is there any possibility that any previous viewers might have copied the first two sessions, or even some screen grabs. I always use PrintScreen to keep a record of any Zoom sessions that I view.

Just a hopeful wish.

Thanks again for your hard work.

Doug

On 13/11/2022 07:20, Barry K3EUI wrote:
The ¡°Five County Digital Training Net¡± (Philadelphia region) is hosting a series of Zoom Workshops on Monday evenings at 7-9 pm. The topic: Nano VNA Fundamentals
All are welcome to join.
Link:

We have already held two sessions covering the fundamentals of what a VNA is capable of measuring and the second session covered how to CALIBRATE the VNA over a frequency range.

The 3rd Zoom session on November 14th will cover what a Nano VNA measures and what it calculates: the forward and the reflected signals are compared (S11) and the following are calculated:

1) Reflection Coefficient (rho) - a fraction from 0 to 1.0 representing the ratio of returning signal to incident signal. In an antenna, you do not want any reflected (return) signal, so the ideal reflection coefficient is zero.

2) Return Loss (dB) - this is based on the reflection coefficient and represents the loss of signal, but measured in decibels (dB) rather than as a percent or fraction. Hams rarely use this measurement. Why?

3) SWR - standing wave ratio - We all use this term but what does it mean? What is an ¡°acceptable¡± SWR in terms of antenna performance.

I will tie these three measurements into what a Smith Chart reveals.

Come join the discussion.
I am not an RF Engineer - so I try to keep this at a moderate level of mathematics.

De k3eui
Barry (k3euibarry - at - gmail.com)
Five County Digital Net manager
Philadelphia PA
November 13 2022





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73

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Re: Nano VNA BASIC WORKSHOP via Zoom

 

oops
here is the much better Dummy Load trace

Barry k3eui


Re: Nano VNA BASIC WORKSHOP via Zoom

 

This is what I see with the NANO VNA standard LOAD (50 ohm dummy load R)
Nothing unusual here.

de k3eui Barry


Re: Nano VNA BASIC WORKSHOP via Zoom

 

Nano VNA graphs using VNA SAVER

Lots of folks have asked me how the REFLECTION Coefficient S11 graph, the RETURN LOSS graph (dB) and the SWR graph compare.
Basically they all show similar aspects of the antenna.


This trace around the 80m band, and is AFTER my CLC Antenna Tuner - set up for min SWR around 3600 kHz
The antenna is about 30 ft high, 130 ft long, center-fed with RG213 coax.
It is a great NVIS antenna.

Note the similar shapes of the RETURN LOSS (dB) and the SWR curve (both derived from the reflection coefficient (S11)


de k3eui Barry

November 13 2022


Re: Nano VNA BASIC WORKSHOP via Zoom

 

Kirk
No, I did not record them because I wanted to encourage questions/comments and when you record these sessions,
(some) folks are hesitant to ask questions or respond.
Barry


Re: Nano VNA BASIC WORKSHOP via Zoom

 

Hi, Barry,
Did you happen to record those previous sessions?
Thanks,
--Kirk, NT0Z

My book, "Stealth Amateur Radio," is now available from www.stealthamateur.com and on the Amazon Kindle (soon)

On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 06:21:03 AM CST, Barry K3EUI <k3euibarry@...> wrote:

The ¡°Five County Digital Training Net¡± (Philadelphia region) is hosting a series of Zoom Workshops on Monday evenings at 7-9 pm. The topic: Nano VNA Fundamentals
All are welcome to join.
Link:

We have already held two sessions covering the fundamentals of what a VNA is capable of measuring and the second session covered how to CALIBRATE the VNA over a frequency range.

The 3rd Zoom session on November 14th will cover what a Nano VNA measures and what it calculates: the forward and the reflected signals are compared (S11) and the following are calculated:

1) Reflection Coefficient (rho) - a fraction from 0 to 1.0 representing the ratio of returning signal to incident signal. In an antenna, you do not want any reflected (return) signal, so the ideal reflection coefficient is zero.

2) Return Loss (dB) - this is based on the reflection coefficient and represents the loss of signal, but measured in decibels (dB) rather than as a percent or fraction. Hams rarely use this measurement. Why?

3) SWR - standing wave ratio? -? We all use this term but what does it mean? What is an ¡°acceptable¡± SWR in terms of antenna performance.

I will tie these three measurements into what a Smith Chart reveals.

Come join the discussion.
I am not an RF Engineer - so I try to keep this at a moderate level of mathematics.

De k3eui
Barry? (k3euibarry - at - gmail.com)
Five County Digital Net manager
Philadelphia PA
November 13 2022


Nano VNA BASIC WORKSHOP via Zoom

 

The ¡°Five County Digital Training Net¡± (Philadelphia region) is hosting a series of Zoom Workshops on Monday evenings at 7-9 pm. The topic: Nano VNA Fundamentals
All are welcome to join.
Link:

We have already held two sessions covering the fundamentals of what a VNA is capable of measuring and the second session covered how to CALIBRATE the VNA over a frequency range.

The 3rd Zoom session on November 14th will cover what a Nano VNA measures and what it calculates: the forward and the reflected signals are compared (S11) and the following are calculated:

1) Reflection Coefficient (rho) - a fraction from 0 to 1.0 representing the ratio of returning signal to incident signal. In an antenna, you do not want any reflected (return) signal, so the ideal reflection coefficient is zero.

2) Return Loss (dB) - this is based on the reflection coefficient and represents the loss of signal, but measured in decibels (dB) rather than as a percent or fraction. Hams rarely use this measurement. Why?

3) SWR - standing wave ratio - We all use this term but what does it mean? What is an ¡°acceptable¡± SWR in terms of antenna performance.

I will tie these three measurements into what a Smith Chart reveals.

Come join the discussion.
I am not an RF Engineer - so I try to keep this at a moderate level of mathematics.

De k3eui
Barry (k3euibarry - at - gmail.com)
Five County Digital Net manager
Philadelphia PA
November 13 2022


Re: MOSFET as RF on/off switch and how to measure/what to expect #circuit

 

Sorry ... I meant to say:

These parts are designed for turning on MOSFET gates so I suspect they stack as many photodiodes in series as they need to get the required voltage.

Eamon


Re: MOSFET as RF on/off switch and how to measure/what to expect #circuit

 

I don't know of any PV output optos that have 10V kind of outputs, which
is what you're going to need for Vgs on a big FET.

An isolated supply is fairly easy - as in an off the shelf DC/DC
isolated converter. You could use it as the gate drive directly, since
you're not looking for high speed.


For improving off isolation, you could put multiple identical switches in
series. I would start by simply taking the device and measuring its off state,
to see how many I might need to chain up.

Or a configuration that has a series switch followed by a shunt to ground.
Here's one that will do 10V (it's far from the only one). These parts are designed for turning on MOSFET gates to I suspect they stack as many LEDs in series as they need to get the required voltage.

Besides being cheaper than an isolated DC/DC converter, they probably have lower capacitance across the isolation barrier.

Eamon


Re: MOSFET as RF on/off switch and how to measure/what to expect #circuit

 

On 11/12/22 9:39 AM, Manfred Mornhinweg wrote:
Miro, yes, Elecraft uses such high voltage rectifiers as PIN diodes in several of their products. They use true PIN diodes in some others, and sometimes they even mix them. What kind of diodes they use in each case, is surely a trade-off between total cost and performance.
Apparently, those 1000V PIV (the 1n4008) *are* PIN diodes - something about the voltage rating - the 800V versions are not.

However, there's some commentary about different manufacturers being different, and needing to check the data sheet for the reverse recovery time trr - it needs to be "long enough" (which I guess implies a big I region that has to be swept clear when reverse biased)

This is the issue - As a mfr can use the JEDEC number if your part meets the required datasheet values. If, you as a circuit designer are depending on "not on datasheet" numbers, some might work, some might not. (noise properties are notorious for this..)





Many schematics are available on theyr website. Just download them and look! For example download the manual of the KPA100, which has such diodes, and also the crystal-locked DC-DC converter I mentioned. And download the K3 schematics file, where you can see the KPA3 using a combination of SMD high voltage rectifier and true PIN diodes. Also the low power final amp of the KPA3 uses a rectifier as a PIN diode. The TR switch on the K3 RF board uses a combination of rectifier and PIN diodes. Same thing with the K3S.


Re: MOSFET as RF on/off switch and how to measure/what to expect #circuit

 

Miro, yes, Elecraft uses such high voltage rectifiers as PIN diodes in several of their products. They use true PIN diodes in some others, and sometimes they even mix them. What kind of diodes they use in each case, is surely a trade-off between total cost and performance.

Many schematics are available on theyr website. Just download them and look! For example download the manual of the KPA100, which has such diodes, and also the crystal-locked DC-DC converter I mentioned. And download the K3 schematics file, where you can see the KPA3 using a combination of SMD high voltage rectifier and true PIN diodes. Also the low power final amp of the KPA3 uses a rectifier as a PIN diode. The TR switch on the K3 RF board uses a combination of rectifier and PIN diodes. Same thing with the K3S.


nanovna_remote.py - Python tool for remote control of the NanoVNA-H from the PC #nanovna-h #scripting #python #nanovna-tools

 

Hi,
as written just around the corner /g/tinysa/topic/tinysa_remote_py_python/94944540 there's a new tool in my toolbox:



Remote control for the NanoVNA or tinySA - mirror the screen to your PC and operate the device with the mouse. The keys + and - zoom in and out, s takes a screenshot with timestamp, ESC quits the program.

usage: nanovna_remote.py [-h] [-d DEVICE] [-t | -n] [-z {2,3,4}]

optional arguments:
-h, --help show this help message and exit
-d DEVICE, --device DEVICE
connect to serial usb device
-n, --nanovna use with NanoVNA (default)
-t, --tinysa use with tinySA
-z {2,3,4}, --zoom {2,3,4}
zoom the screen image

Martin


Re: NanoVNA-H4 no longer measures SWR or Smith Chart

 

Dave - LogMag for S11 just sits there at 10db/0.05db no matter what connector i put on the unit, OPEN, SHORT or LOAD. It doesn't fluctuate at all. Smith Chart stays at -133mOhms 521nH. No fluctuation using any of the three, OPEN, SHORT or LOAD.
No other traces for S11.

The screen also shows two S21 values. LogMag for S21 shows a constant 10db but the number next to it is fluctuating all over the place, typically between -70 and -99. Also below LogMAG it shows Phase Angle. It shows 90 degrees and to the right of that is another angle that is fluctuating all over -110 to +10 and many values in between over and over randomly.

I didn't tell the thing to show S21 values at all. It just did it.

John


Re: NanoVNA-H4 no longer measures SWR or Smith Chart

 

Tom - I've ordered a couple to have on hand. Will take the one out.
Thanks for the suggestion.

John