开云体育

On 10/21/22 2:50 PM, W0LEV wrote:

The data sheet I saw attached to one of these emails was from MaCom without
the Smith Chart plot. Oh well.
A good start would be on the left side of the chart around 1.2 ±j (a bit)
for output and a bit higher for both real and imaginary portions on the
input. Fixture it as Jim Lux described embedded in a 50-ohm measurement
system with variable reactive components to obtain the best in/out-put
power at a given drive level/power level and voltage. Then remove the
active component, terminate the input and output ports of the fixture with
non-reactive 50-ohms, and measure from the transistor side of each port
looking into the input and output ports. That will be the complex
conjugate of the impedance for best power match at your given conditions.
Back in the day (some four decades ago??) I had quite a talk with Helgie
Grannberg (spelling) at Motorola on how the input and output impedances
were actually measured resulting in the published values in the Motorola
data books. What I have described above is that process and I believe what
Jim Lux is describing.

Yeah, it think there's some Moto ap note that describes it. This is 1970s, 1980s era - it was a lot of work just to collect the data, much less do the de-embedding - For example, the 8510 came out in 1985.

The data sheet I saw attached to one of these emails was from MaCom without
the Smith Chart plot. Oh well.

A good start would be on the left side of the chart around 1.2 ±j (a bit)
for output and a bit higher for both real and imaginary portions on the
input. Fixture it as Jim Lux described embedded in a 50-ohm measurement
system with variable reactive components to obtain the best in/out-put
power at a given drive level/power level and voltage. Then remove the
active component, terminate the input and output ports of the fixture with
non-reactive 50-ohms, and measure from the transistor side of each port
looking into the input and output ports. That will be the complex
conjugate of the impedance for best power match at your given conditions.

Back in the day (some four decades ago??) I had quite a talk with Helgie
Grannberg (spelling) at Motorola on how the input and output impedances
were actually measured resulting in the published values in the Motorola
data books. What I have described above is that process and I believe what
Jim Lux is describing.

Dave - W?LEV

--
Dave - W?LEV

That's the first one I sent. The second one, from Motorola, has the
emitter, base and collector correctly labeled.

Zack W9SZ

On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 1:59 PM Donald S Brant Jr <dsbrantjr@...>
wrote:

Even odder, the pinout shows the NPN silicon bipolar transistor having
gate, drain and source terminals.
73, Don N2VGU

Even odder, the pinout shows the NPN silicon bipolar transistor having gate, drain and source terminals.
73, Don N2VGU

On 10/21/22 11:01 AM, N2MS wrote:

I donated my data books to the InfoAge Museum library once I found they are available on the Internet Archive.
Here is a link to the Motorola RF Data Book:
<>

Yep - it's in there.
No smith chart - it's same as the pdf we've posted. (well, not exactly, the databook has the package outlines somewhere else, it's only 2 pages for the MRF454)

Mike N2MS

On 10/21/2022 12:38 PM W0LEV <davearea51a@...> wrote:

If you can find the original issue of the MRF454 data sheet from Motorola,
I believe that will have the Smith Chart plots for both input and output
impedances. I no longer have my "library" of data books from that era.

Dave - W?LEV

Just bought a new nanvovna SAA2-N. Attempting to flash an updated firmware. I found it difficult to determine which firmware to use- I tried nanorfe-20220814-vna6000.bin then I tried nanovna-v2-20201013-v2_74.bin, but neither of them worked properly.

So I then I followed the instructions from DiSlord here: and had some trouble: got an error message saying "Unterminated quoted string". I then followed a suggestion from here: and then at least the compilation seemed to complete.

However, after uploading that binary.bin (using VNA_View-x86_64.AppImage) the device now just gives me a blank screen, regardless of whether or not I hold the button while turning it on. VNA_View now does not recognize the device.

When I plug the nanovna usb into my system Dmesg now reports:

[16007.201932] usb 2-1.8: new full-speed USB device number 8 using ehci-pci
[16007.617950] usb 2-1.8: device not accepting address 8, error -32
[16007.701947] usb 2-1.8: new full-speed USB device number 9 using ehci-pci
[16008.117962] usb 2-1.8: device not accepting address 9, error -32
[16008.118190] usb 2-1-port8: unable to enumerate USB device

Here is what I started with:
SAA-2N
SN: 3555144B-00043333-35343234
Hardware designed by OwOComm
Build Time: Jun 9 2021 -17:36:19
Compiler: gcc
Port Info: GD32F303
Board: SAA-2N

I am using an updated Debian system.

Can someone help me out of this predicament?

Thanks if you can help,
Keith

I posted the original data sheet from Motorola a while ago. It does not
have Smith chart plots in it.

Zack W9SZ

I donated my data books to the InfoAge Museum library once I found they are available on the Internet Archive.

Here is a link to the Motorola RF Data Book:

<>

Mike N2MS

There is something to be aware of when testing portable radio antennas.
When used on the side of the body the resonance of the antenna can shift.
Testing in a static environment such as on a good ground plane can give
results that do not match the result of having it next to the body. This is
the same case when hand held next to your head, though there is less of an
effect. It would be a good idea to test in both situations. Also, The body
of the portable radio acts as a ground plane to the antenna. If you are
using a NANO that has a metal case it will be a good approximation of the
portable radio, just calibrate the NANO at the SMA connectors then attach
the antenna to the VNA. Make sure to not have the test setup near any metal
objects.



*Clyde K. Spencer*



On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 4:42 AM David Wilcox K8WPE via groups.io
<Djwilcox01@...> wrote:

To all,

“Another work around is to get a small magnet mount with the appropriate
SMA antenna mount and do your tests in a vehicle with the antenna stuck to
the roof. This will provide a pretty decent ground plain as well. Or stick
the magnet mount on the top of a fridge or metal stove top etc.”

This is the method I would use the most and I use it regularly to demo car
mag mount antennas and test SWR to new hams….. it should work well for
rubber duck antennas too. So many of us in the old days just slapped the
antenna on Mom’s or wife’s refrigerator and it worked well. And there are
so many crappy antennas sold on eBay and even Amazon that are knock offs of
something that probably were cell phone or business band antennas but they
look and sound good to a new ham…..very wide band and low cost. Crap! Also
a lot of Nagoya knockoffs that are crap too. Buy from a reputable ham radio
dealer so you can return it if it doesn’t measure up. I have bought a
poorly measuring up antenna from MFJ and took it back to Dayton the next
year (to save high shipping costs) and they replaced it with no questions.
Even put a label on it stating defective. The replacement worked to spec.

I am a supporter of MFJ products but always open whatever I purchase and
test the product and touch up poor solder joints. I still have many of
their products going back years. I even have their first product, a CW
audio filter. It rings but was all we had back in the early 1960s.

Dave K8WPE

David J. Wilcox’s iPad

On Oct 20, 2022, at 4:28 PM, Colin McDonald <colinrmcdonald@...>

wrote:

Another work around is to get a small magnet mount with the appropriate

SMA antenna mount and do your tests in a vehicle with the antenna stuck to
the roof. This will provide a pretty decent ground plain as well. Or stick
the magnet mount on the top of a fridge or metal stove top etc.

I did this testing quite a few years ago....


Mike W9MDB

The Diamond SRH320A is the only HT antenna I have tested (approaching some
30) that genuinely covers 2-meters, 222 MHz, and 70 cm with reasonable
SWR. Many of the rubber ducks test good in either the aviation or public
service VHF bands, not 2-meters. My test setup used a large copper plane
with the antenna mount in the center.

Dave - W?LEV

--
Dave - W?LEV

This is exactly how I determined that a "tri-band" whip antenna from RadiOddity was in reality only a dual band, while a similar antenna from Abrree actually showed life on all three bands close to where it should have.

73

-Jim
NU0C

On Fri, 21 Oct 2022 10:45:58 -0400 (EDT)
"N2MS" <mstangelo@...> wrote:

I like to measure the antenna in it's operational environment.

If I am measuring a Handi Talkie antenna I replace the rig with my NanoVNA and take measurements while holding it as if I am operating.

A HT whip installation does not have to contend with transmission line loss so the SWR may not be as low as you would expect.

Mike N2MS

On 10/21/2022 10:34 AM Lester Veenstra via groups.io < m0ycm@...

wrote:

Although remember that the in-service radio forms part of the antenna
system (OCFD) measuring the antenna by itself with ought simulating the
metallic body of the radio will be misleading


Lester B Veenstra K1YCM M?YCM W8YCM 6Y6Y W8YCM/6Y 6Y8LV (REformed CTM1)
lester@...


452 Stable Ln (HC84 RFD USPS Mail)
Keyser WV 26726


GPS: 39.336826 N 78.982287 W (Google)
GPS: 39.33682 N 78.9823741 W (GPSDO)




Telephones:
Home: +1-304-289-6057
US cell +1-304-790-9192
Jamaica cell: +1-876-456-8898

If you can find the original issue of the MRF454 data sheet from Motorola,
I believe that will have the Smith Chart plots for both input and output
impedances. I no longer have my "library" of data books from that era.

Dave - W?LEV

--
Dave - W?LEV

I like to measure the antenna in it's operational environment.

If I am measuring a Handi Talkie antenna I replace the rig with my NanoVNA and take measurements while holding it as if I am operating.

A HT whip installation does not have to contend with transmission line loss so the SWR may not be as low as you would expect.

Mike N2MS

Although remember that the in-service radio forms part of the antenna system (OCFD) measuring the antenna by itself with ought simulating the metallic body of the radio will be misleading

Lester B Veenstra K1YCM M?YCM W8YCM 6Y6Y W8YCM/6Y 6Y8LV (REformed CTM1)
lester@...

452 Stable Ln (HC84 RFD USPS Mail)
Keyser WV 26726

GPS: 39.336826 N 78.982287 W (Google)
GPS: 39.33682 N 78.9823741 W (GPSDO)


Telephones:
Home: +1-304-289-6057
US cell +1-304-790-9192
Jamaica cell: +1-876-456-8898

On 10/21/22 6:55 AM, Zack Widup wrote:

Another oddity: The leads are labeled "gate," "drain" and "source" in that
data sheet. They should be "base," "emitter" and "collector." Let's try
this attachment.
Zack W9SZ

You're right.. MACOM copied the wrong drawing to the data sheet. The NXP case drawing shows Type 1 with BEC and Type 2 with GDS.

On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 8:51 AM Zack Widup <w9sz.zack@...> wrote:

Odd. That isn't the full data sheet. It's here:



73, Zack W9SZ

On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 7:39 AM Douglas Butler <sherpadoug@...>
wrote:

That is a pretty minimal datasheet for the MRF454. I doesn't even give
the pinout!

SherpaDoug WA1UWP

On 10/21/22 6:51 AM, Zack Widup wrote:

Odd. That isn't the full data sheet. It's here:

Identical to the one I attached - it too doesn't have pin definition. I think when MACOM bought that product line, they altered the data sheet slightly from the motorola one.

73, Zack W9SZ
On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 7:39 AM Douglas Butler <sherpadoug@...>
wrote:

That is a pretty minimal datasheet for the MRF454. I doesn't even give
the pinout!

SherpaDoug WA1UWP

On 10/21/22 5:39 AM, Douglas Butler wrote:

That is a pretty minimal datasheet for the MRF454. I doesn't even give the pinout!

The specification as Case 211-11, Style 1 on the MACOM data sheet defines the pinout

The moto data sheet did have the pinout

Neither has tabular data or Smith chart for Z.


The MRF150, another popular transistor (a FET), used in the EB104 design, does have Smith chart and data tables.

Another oddity: The leads are labeled "gate," "drain" and "source" in that
data sheet. They should be "base," "emitter" and "collector." Let's try
this attachment.

Zack W9SZ

Odd. That isn't the full data sheet. It's here:



73, Zack W9SZ

On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 7:39 AM Douglas Butler <sherpadoug@...>
wrote:

That is a pretty minimal datasheet for the MRF454. I doesn't even give
the pinout!

SherpaDoug WA1UWP