Trouble compiling DiSlord's 1.0.46 for H
Hi DiSlord,
I just tried to compile your H code with the updates from a few days ago and got the following errors in the ChibiOS area.
I installed ChibiOS from your current repo.
ChibiOS/os/hal/osal/rt/osal.h:241:34: note: in expansion of macro 'chDbgAssert'
#define osalDbgAssert(c, remark) chDbgAssert(c, remark)
^~~~~~~~~~~
ChibiOS/os/hal/src/hal_usb.c:932:5: note: in expansion of macro 'osalDbgAssert'
osalDbgAssert(false, "EP0 state machine error");
^~~~~~~~~~~~~
ChibiOS/os/hal/src/hal_usb.c:934:3: note: here
case USB_EP0_ERROR:
^~~~
Compiling nvic.c
Compiling hal_lld.c
ChibiOS/os/hal/ports/STM32/STM32F0xx/hal_lld.c:54:40: error: expected identifier or '(' before 'void'
static void hal_lld_backup_domain_init(void) {
^~~~
ChibiOS/os/hal/ports/STM32/STM32F0xx/hal_lld.c: In function 'hal_lld_init':
ChibiOS/os/hal/ports/STM32/STM32F0xx/hal_lld.c:235:30: error: expected expression before ')' token
hal_lld_backup_domain_init();
^
make: *** [ChibiOS/os/common/startup/ARMCMx/compilers/GCC/rules.mk:216: build/obj/hal_lld.o] Error 1
Any idea where to look?
The last code I compiled for the H was from Aug 2020 and it still compiles OK today, so did something change in ChibiOS?
Thanks,
Larry
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Re: how to test s11 and s21 dynamic range?
On 2/10/21 7:36 AM, mender5@... wrote: I made some small changes of my Nanovna-H.
Is there a way to test s11 and s21 dynamic range?
S21 - start putting attenuators in and seeing where it bottoms out (or where the displayed attenuation change doesn't match the actual attenuation change) S11 - calibrated mismatches - attenuator into an open or short. If you put a 20 dB pad on the Tx port, can you see the difference between short, open, and load?? (20dB pad is -40dB S11, 20 dB going out, 20dB coming back from the reflection). A couple decent step attenutors (one in 10dB steps, the other in 1 dB steps) makes this easy.? But a handful of fixed attenuators can also do it, just more time consuming as you swap them around. Watch out for leakage from cables etc as you get to higher isolations. 80 dB is hard. >120dB is really hard.
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how to test s11 and s21 dynamic range?
I made some small changes of my Nanovna-H.
Is there a way to test s11 and s21 dynamic range?
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A kluge way to see/capture the quickly disappearing screen...
If you have a smart phone with camera capable of taking video, start a video recording of your nanoVNA screen during start up. Stop video after the screen goes blank. You should be able to scroll back through the video to a still frame of the screen display.
John, wa3jrs
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On Feb 10, 2021, at 9:06 AM, daniebjoubert <daniebjoubert@...> wrote:
?Good day Ken.
Thanks for the reply.
Running the NanoVna saver software.exe, does not even start up to the real measuring screen.
The .exe runs in the system prompt area for a while and then just disappears after an error is detected.
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On 2/9/21 7:07 AM, Max via groups.io wrote: I need an RF sampler of some sort for monitoring my RF signal. This might be used with a scope or TinySA or ...
Is something like this what I need? If so I'd prefer to build by own if I can get some info on the core type and number of turns and such. If this isn't what I need, what would this be used for exactly?
If you want to build your own.. A nice 20dB sampler is a voltage divider with a 450 ohm and 50 ohm resistor in series. That gives you a nice 10:1 voltage ratio, and the 500 ohms in parallel with a 50 ohm line is barely noticeable (45.5 ohms). If you have higher powers, go for 4950 ohms and 50 ohms, for a 100:1 ratio (40dB).
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Rough tuning can be done with the NanoVNA but fine tuning the notches is best done with the actual repeater receiver.
To rough tune, use the s21 measurement. Connect the source port (ch0) to the antenna of the duplexer and the detector port (ch1) to either the receiver or transmitter port of the duplexer. Tune whichever port to get the passband centered on the desired frequency. Now connect the NanoVNA between the receiver (ch1) and transmitter ports (ch0) of the duplexer and put a 50 ohm load on the antenna port of the duplexer and fine tune the receiver duplexer cans to put the notch at the transmitter frequency. Reverse the NanoVNA connections and fine tune the transmitter duplexer and to put the notch at the receiver frequency. Now you are rough tuned. Hook up the repeater receiver and input a signal generator at the transmitter port set to the receiver frequency. Tune the transmitter cans to minimize the signal at the receiver, increasing the signal generator amplitude as required. Now attach a mobile or portable radio to the transmitter port tuned to the transmitter frequency and put the signal generator on the receive port and adjust the receiver cans to minimize the signal at the receiver.
And now you are done.
Gary
W9TD
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This youtube video shows a comparison between the NanoVna H4 and a Tektronix TTR506A "professional" VNA to show the difference in dynamic range.
? Of course comparing something that is $100 to? something that is in the $12K price range you do see the difference.? They were tuning a mobile type duplexer I believe (not a duplexer expert here...) which I believe is the dual notch type and they showed how the NanoVna was connected.? I would guess with bandpass/band reject duplexers something similar would be set up with the "cans" (cavity filters).? I am sure better exerts will chime in on this...
But the big issue was the dynamic range of the NanoVNA to allow you to see where the notches were according to this video.
Sig - KB2HHU
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On Wednesday, February 10, 2021, 09:52:46 AM EST, Joao CU3AA <cu3aa.azores@...> wrote:
Hello
I'd like to tune up a duplexer for our Club's 2M repeater but don't know how to configure the nanoVNA to do it.
That's the only tool we have here.
Does anyone can help me on that issue?
Thanks and regards from Azores
CU3AA, Joao
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Re: CMC MEASUREMENTS - PDF'ed & SIZE REDUCED
On 2/8/21 1:51 PM, Manfred Mornhinweg wrote:
Jim,
Skin depth is a thing, too. And since it's proportional to 1/sqrt(mu), higher mu makes the skin depth smaller. Fortunately it's proportional to sqrt(resistivity),
and the resisitivity of ferrites is very high Let's not forget that skin effect is a phenomenom that affects conductors. There is no such thing as skin effect in ferrites, which are essentially insulators. The reduction of skin effect with ? happens when the electric conductor is also a magnetic material, such as steel wire. I hope nobody here is using steel wire to wind CMCs! But copper-clad steel wire is OK, as long as the copper layer is plenty thick enough to accomodate the skin depth at the frequency of operation.
Indeed - so it would be an issue in laminated steel cores, but nobody is going to be using that for RF.
About the dielectric loss in plastics:
There are two families of plastics: Polar and non-polar ones. In polar plastics each molecule is electrically asymmetric, making it react strongly to electric fields and thus absorbing a lot of energy at RF, turning it into heath. In non-polar plastics each molecule is electrically balanced, drastically reducing the absorption of energy from RF electric fields. PVC and nylon are polar plastics, polyethylene and teflon are non-polar ones.
Water is a polar molecule, and that's why water absorption in plastics increases their dielectric loss. But polar plastics have such high dielectric loss anyway that water absorption in them is probably of pretty low importance on their total dielectric loss.
This is all true, but in practice, we rarely see "pure" plastics, except in applications like clear windows, or high end applications like spaceflight, where they want "traceability to sand". They're formed in various ways, with fillers and additives, as well as scrap from earlier batches or recycling.? So you can have a plastic that is normally quite low loss, in the pure form, but quite high loss in the form used. This is especially true in price sensitive applications - plumbing and wire insulation strike me as in that bucket.? I would think that coax has fairly well controlled properties, and the inner dielectric is quite pure. But hookup wire, machine tool wire, THHN (which is PVC, with a nylon coating on the outside), and plastic pipe are not so well controlled, except for manufacturing ease and price. As long as the THHN passes the voltage breakdown test, it will pass, lossy or not.? Even wire procured to MIL standards might not be particularly well controlled - they test to the spec, and if the spec doesn't call out RF properties, it might be variable.
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Hello
I'd like to tune up a duplexer for our Club's 2M repeater but don't know how to configure the nanoVNA to do it.
That's the only tool we have here.
Does anyone can help me on that issue?
Thanks and regards from Azores
CU3AA, Joao
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According to the Collins radio article, the end where the faraday shield is grounded is the input.
Gary
W9TD
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Re: COAXIALLY WOUND CHOKE
Dave,
Very nice results. Thanks so much for sharing those results. Have a photo to share?
--
Brian
K0FBS
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Good day Ken.
Thanks for the reply.
Running the NanoVna saver software.exe, does not even start up to the real measuring screen.
The .exe runs in the system prompt area for a while and then just disappears after an error is detected.
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I have an SAA-2N and I occasionally have similar problems with NanoVNA-Saver. The software will detect the device on the appropriate COM port, but when you click on ¡®Connect to device¡¯, the program quickly exits. A solution which has worked for me was to use VNA_QT.EXE software to establish a link to the NanoVNA. Once the device is connected in VNA_QT, the display screen on the NanoVNA switches from the normal Smith chart to a different screen showing the device is in USB Mode. As long as the screen displays USB Mode, I have always been able to close VNA_QT and switch over to NanoVNA-Saver and successfully connect to the device. I hope this helps. Ken, WB?OCV From: daniebjoubert Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2021 08:40 AM To: [email protected]Subject: [nanovna-users] Start up error. Good afternoon to the group. I have been using NanoVna saver for more than 2 years and upgraded after each new version but left the old .exe files in a folder. Suddenly, trying to run the .exe files I got an error during the start up prompt screen:: error problem with type - none type has no len..... or something like that. The screen disappear so fast it is difficult to read error. This happens with all the versions to my disposal. Can anyone perhaps suggest a solution. Thank you in advance.
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Good afternoon to the group.
I have been using NanoVna saver for more than 2 years and upgraded after each new version but left the old .exe files in a folder.
Suddenly, trying to run the .exe files I got an error during the start up prompt screen:: error problem with type - none type has no len.....
or something like that. The screen disappear so fast it is difficult to read error.
This happens with all the versions to my disposal.
Can anyone perhaps suggest a solution. Thank you in advance.
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Good afternoon to the group.
I have been using NanoVna saver for more than 2 years and upgraded after each new version but left the old .exe files in a folder.
Suddenly, trying to run the .exe files I got an error during the start up prompt screen:: error problem with type - none type has no len.....
or something like that. The screen disappear so fast it is difficult to read error.
This happens with all the versions to my disposal.
Can anyone perhaps suggest a solution. Thank you in advance.
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Re: [nanovnav2] PROCEDURES for MEASURING DM LOSS and CM ATTENUATION of CMCs
I've been testing a balun with the following specifications:
2x FT240-31 Amidon cores stacked
11 turns of RG-400 teflon-coated coaxial cable
A photo of the baluns internals:
[image: balun.jpg]
This balun feeds a ground-mounted Hustler 5BTV.
I followed David's W0LEV's guide on CMC checking with nanovna-saver.
Calibrated for 1mhz-30mhz with OSL and Thru using the supplied coaxial
jumpers and loads. Here's my test-rig:
[image: 20210208_200439.jpg]
I calibrated OSLT with the connectors at the end of the pigtails.
This is what i see on Nanovna-Saver:
[image: nanovna_saver.png]
My SWR, Smith and S21 Gain values and graph are totally different to
Davids.
This balun works ok, i pulled it out of service to measure.
I see ~1.5:1 with a roughly tuned 5BTV on 40M @ 100w.
David's numbers seem to make sense, my numbers seem a bit confusing, but
it does work.
Any thoughts why the difference between the results?
Would appreciate your thoughts :)
73s & thanks!
Chris.
On Sun, Feb 7, 2021 at 9:00 AM David Eckhardt <davearea51a@...>
wrote:
It was requested by a number of responders that I convert to PDF. The
attachments are in .PDF format which should be able to be read by
everyone.
There was also a request to place them in the files section of these
NANOVNA sites. I am a member and will attempt that. However, if the
moderators don't see them there, please place them there.
Dave - W?LEV
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I made a sampler with current transformer many years ago (before good measuring equipment was common to hams).
After making it , it was measured by a friend with access to prefessional equipment as 1MHz- 50MHz (the range it was meant for) with -33,5dB attenuation. It was, and still is, flat in this frequency range. I am still using it and ofcourse I can measure it myself now, thanks to the cheap VNA's.
It does not have to be 20dB exactly, or 30dB exactly. Absolutely no reason for that. As long as you know the value.
BTW: keep in mind that those dB's are only for? 50 ohm loads and that's the same for your the piece of equipment connected? to the tap, this also needs to be showing a 50 ohm load.
73,
Arie PA3A
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Clear, thank you for your info.
Op 10-2-2021 om 10:31 schreef Kerry:
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These couplers are not directional; in/out can be at either end.
30dB is a practical coupling factor.
Coupling is proportional to turns ratio (the through-line is one turn).
For 1000:1 (30dB) impedance ratio, the turns ratio is 1:sqrt 1000, ie 1:31.6; in practice, of course, 1:32 serves.
For 1:100 (20dB impedance ratio), the turns ratio is 1:sqrt 100, ie 1:10, so 10 turns can be used.
If you do this arithmetic for other ratios you will find that most of them are impractical; about 10 -25dB ratio is the practical limit.
At first glance it might seem that more turns are required for more output to the Cpl port but that's not the way that current transformers operate.
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These couplers are not directional; in/out can be at either end.
30dB is a practical coupling factor.
Coupling is proportional to turns ratio (the through-line is one turn).
For 1000:1 (30dB) impedance ratio, the turns ratio is 1:sqrt 1000, ie 1:31.6; in practice, of course, 1:32 serves.
For 1:100 (20dB impedance ratio), the turns ratio is 1:sqrt 100, ie 1:10, so 10 turns can be used.
If you do this arithmetic for other ratios you will find that most of them are impractical; about 10 -25dB ratio is the practical limit.
At first glance it might seem that more turns are required for more output to the Cpl port but that's not the way that current transformers operate.
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Kerry,
Nice to see the hardware on the photos.
Which side of the trough has to be the input? I suppose there is some directivity?
And if I want? -20dB coupling, do I have to use more windings on the toroid (as a result the i.l. of the through will increase)?
Kees, PE0CWK
Op 10-2-2021 om 05:11 schreef Kerry:
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Two home-made couplers are shown in the attached photos; that will give some ideas on construction.
Construction details are shown on one photo. #43 ferrite will give very similar results.
Performance is also shown; they are good to about 120 MHz.
These are 30dB couplers and, unlike the ebay one, are not terminated at the Cpl port; they are used with a 50-ohm power meter or other 50-ohm instrument which provides the necessary termination.
Never operate this kind of coupler un-terminated, ie with the Cpl port open; very high voltages will be generated.
A through power of 100W (+50dBm) will produce 50 - 30 = +20dBm at the Cpl port; if this is excessive, attenuators can be used.
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Gary W9TD
Joao CU3AA
Brian Smith
daniebjoubert
Arie Kleingeld PA3A