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They are completely different instruments, used for completely different
purposes.The NanoVNA is a vector network analyzer. It can be used to
measure resistors, capacitors, inductors, transmission lines, antennas,
etc. It can measure SWR. The TinySA is a spectrum monitor. It can do none
of the things I listed above. But it can show the spectrum in any given
frequency segment. The TinySA Ultra goes up to over 12 GHz. I often use it
to peak pipe cap bandpass filters up through 10 GHz. A power meter often
shows power out, but the filter could be tuned to the wrong frequency. The
TinySA verifies I am tuning the filters to the correct harmonic.

Zack W9SZ

On Wed, Mar 19, 2025 at 10:12?AM Team-SIM SIM-Mode via groups.io
<sim31_team@...> wrote:

Hi
As a hamradio operator what can i do better with TinySA ultra then
NanoVNA H4 ? What kind of measurement with TinySA can be really usefull
for antenna, filtering .. around hamradio activity , did sdrplay spectrum
display can replace TinySA on moste cases ? i see that it has a handy
signal generator but what really much important to do with?
73s Nizar

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<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Hi
As a hamradio operator what can i do better with TinySA ultra then NanoVNA H4 ? What kind of measurement with TinySA can be really usefull for antenna, filtering .. around hamradio activity , did sdrplay spectrum display can replace TinySA on moste cases ? i see that it has a handy signal generator but what really much important to do with?
73s Nizar

The NanoVNA-F-V2 has a convenient TDR function: It has its own menu choice. Just requires settings dependent on cable speed factor and short/long cable. Quite intuitive. Firmware 0.5.4 handles everything correctly. Nice, big display. I like mine.
Raymond

Yes. When I commented "clean" the copper from beneath the inductors, I
imply no copper beneath the component(s).

Yes, that will introduce a slight impedance bump in the line. However,
even a bit of solder will do much the same. This becomes even more
critical with increasing frequency. Consider the length of even a small SM
component. Both the lands on the PCB to mount the device and the "bulk" of
the component contribute an impedance bump. Be thankful you're working at
915 MHz! My radio astronomy preamps are a challenge at even 1.42 GHz and
becomes worse as I go upward in frequency.

Dave - W?LEV

On Wed, Mar 19, 2025 at 2:09?AM Nico via groups.io <nicolassimard=
[email protected]> wrote:

Dave,

That's very interesting. That is what I came across the datasheet of the
capacitors I bought. Look at the picture, I think that's what you're
talking about. Unfortunately, it is not mentioned in the inductor
datasheet.

I tried it out tonight. Unfortunately, The match get worse (no as worse)
but in the same direction as when I've put the inductor. I didn't have an
18 gauge on hand though, only 22AWG.

When you say "clean" the ground plane, do you mean that below the
footprint occupied by the inductor, there should have no ground plane in a
"copper at all" beneath it ? In this case, doesn't it creat a return path
discontinuity for the transmission line ? I've attached a picture for
clarity.

Thanks

--

*Dave - W?LEV*


--
Dave - W?LEV

I know the NanoVNA H4 has a TDR function because I've used it. It isn't
called that in the menu and is a little tricky to figure out. There is a
Youtube'video that describes its setup. Also message 12494 in this group.

Zack W9SZ

On Wed, Mar 19, 2025 at 3:18?AM James Henscheid via groups.io
<jim.henscheid@...> wrote:

Haven’t bought one yet but I’d like to make sure I get a version capable
of the TDR addition. I’ll have to figure out how to add it if necessary
after receiving it.
Thanks.

Haven’t bought one yet but I’d like to make sure I get a version capable of the TDR addition. I’ll have to figure out how to add it if necessary after receiving it.
Thanks.

Stan and Thomas..

Thank you! The menu is very helpful! Got a whole lot of learning to do, i'll be fun!

--
William, k6whp
--------------------
"Cheer up, things could get worse. So I cheered up and things got worse."

Dave,

That's very interesting. That is what I came across the datasheet of the capacitors I bought. Look at the picture, I think that's what you're talking about. Unfortunately, it is not mentioned in the inductor datasheet.

I tried it out tonight. Unfortunately, The match get worse (no as worse) but in the same direction as when I've put the inductor. I didn't have an 18 gauge on hand though, only 22AWG.

When you say "clean" the ground plane, do you mean that below the footprint occupied by the inductor, there should have no ground plane in a "copper at all" beneath it ? In this case, doesn't it creat a return path discontinuity for the transmission line ? I've attached a picture for clarity.

Thanks

Dave, the first photo is with the 10pf cap and at 150mhz it measures 10pf.

Since you mention measuring all components, do you have any tips on getting a 50ohm match on the inductor at the desired frequency? I've tried a few different diameters and numbers of turns, I'm close to the inductance needed but can't seem to get the impedance right

When constructing filters, I ALWAYS measure every component before building
the filter! With that, I seldom have to do ANY tweaking with the completed
filter.

If your first image is without anything installed in your fixture - the
binding posts - after a good calibration, the marker over your sweep range
should be a single point at the extreme right and on the center horizontal
line with no capacitive trace below it.

If your first image is with a 10 pF capacitor, the S11 measurement at the
marker indicates a frequency of 3.9 MHz. What is the capacitance at 150
MHz? You want this capacitor to be "good" per your required value from
"DC" to at least 150 MHz, and preferably to 900 MHz (and above).

Dave - W?LEV

On Tue, Mar 18, 2025 at 7:59?PM KJ5FRJ via groups.io <coreyjenkins24=
[email protected]> wrote:

There's a lot of information here and I appreciate everyone's input- I
reset and recalibrated the nanovna after finishing up the test rig
according to Dave's build, i missed the copper tape on the edges. I'm sure
the capacitance had quite an effect. I tested with a 10pf vishay hi Q cap
and it's accurate along with my smith chart not running off the graph- I
tested a coil and per the coil calculator I used it seems accurate. Now the
fun part- trying to wind coils for the impedance I'm looking for at the
frequency range I need?
If anyone sees anything here that looks amiss I'm all ears

--

*Dave - W?LEV*


--
Dave - W?LEV

Zack,
Here's a link to the filter I'm building. It's not a chebyshev, there was an article in QEX about it comparing the two.

And the qex pdfs

Where did you get the filter design you are using? Playing around with my
filter design program, I found it appears you are using a 7th order
Chebyshev low pass filter, inductor input. Possibly a Butterworth, as the
values it gives are fairly close to those of the Chebyshev. This would
require two inductors of 72.8 nH and two of 214.8 nH. Is there any way you
can go to a capacitive input filter? That would use inductors with larger
values.

I usually don't measure the inductance directly for filters like that. I
wind the inductors according to formula (in this case simple wirewound
inductors), build the circuit, connect that to the NanoVNA and push the
inductors to make the windings closer together or farther apart with a
plastic diddle stick. I adjust until it gives a cutoff of the appropriate
frequency for a low pass filter.

Zack W9SZ

On Mon, Mar 17, 2025 at 2:29?PM KJ5FRJ via groups.io <coreyjenkins24=
[email protected]> wrote:

Hello, new to this group. I've learned a lot from reading here, but i seem
to have run into some issues and could use some advice. I'm building a low
pass filter, and trying to learn to measure inductance using the nanovna.
I've built a test rig that I found on one of the threads here somewhere-
three pieces of double sided pcb for OSL, and I'm soldering my air core
inductors to that. I'm trying to use the S11 shunt method for a coil that
needs to be 72.4nH.

Ive got a couple things I'm not understanding- should my coil be adjusted
for the necessary inductance at the frequency for the filter of 50-55mhz?
And does it need to be adjusted for impedance at that band as well? I've
attached photos- my 90deg phase and 50 ohm mark is at 112mhz, but this
inductor is for the 6m filter.

Another thing I'm not understanding is the 5khz self resonance dip seen at
the beginning of the sweep, shouldn't it be reading capacitive since it's
after the phase reversal?

Any help is appreciated

<>
Virus-free.www.avg.com
<>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

look in files section, menuand notes by bruce dated 2024, good menu map and notes

There's a lot of information here and I appreciate everyone's input- I reset and recalibrated the nanovna after finishing up the test rig according to Dave's build, i missed the copper tape on the edges. I'm sure the capacitance had quite an effect. I tested with a 10pf vishay hi Q cap and it's accurate along with my smith chart not running off the graph- I tested a coil and per the coil calculator I used it seems accurate. Now the fun part- trying to wind coils for the impedance I'm looking for at the frequency range I need?
If anyone sees anything here that looks amiss I'm all ears

Success!

1. Shorted BOOTP and VDD pins
2. Connected USB-C to PC (MacBook Pro 2016)
3. Started STM32CubeProgrammer
4. Loaded latest NanoVNA .HEX file
5. Started Download
6. Success! NanoVNA working as expected.

Thanks, for all the help; Dfu appears to be obsolete, STM32Cube works, and
I don't need to run it on Win10 via Parallels ?

On Sun, Mar 16, 2025, 17:37 Siegfried Jackstien via groups.io
<siegfried.jackstien@...> wrote:

maybe the case is pressing on the touch screen? ... or the screen cable
is not well fitted

did you try to connect it to pc (example nanovna app)??

dg9bfc sigi

Am 16.03.2025 um 23:31 schrieb Taracait via groups.io:

Battery is fine, 3.7VDC; checked at the unit PCB.

And the screen is lighting up (white), so power isw not the problem

I'm not aware of an updated menu structure map, nor of a consolidated description of features of the current 1.2.40 firmware.
Unfortunately, it takes a bunch of time and effort to create such documentation, so I'm not sure if anyone has donated such an effort.
You can look at the release notes for each of the versions to get the info (but that's a lot of release notes).
And there are lots of youtube videos that touch on one or more of the features. And lots of past messages in this forum, which you can search for a particular menu item you may be interested in.

Maybe someone else here is aware of good places to look...
Stan

I called R&L electronics today. They're going to replace the unit. A+ service from R&L.

Stan,

thank you for the advice. As mentioned, I became familiar with the H4 one or two years ago (my past dims) and -- per your advice -- I did go ahead and upgrade from 0.5.0 to 1.2.4 and, my word, the features abound.

I guess my work is cut out for me inasmuch as the 1.2.40 display is loaded with features versus the old and lowly 0.5.00 release. Is there documentaiton and/or a menu structure map for this newer version?

Obliged!

--
William, k6whp
--------------------
"Cheer up, things could get worse. So I cheered up and things got worse."

Since you are dealing with SM inductors, I remembered something I've
learned and practiced for a couple of decades. In mounting SM inductors it
matters how they are constructed internally. The suppliers do not publish
this data. As such, I have always required the PCB layout engineers clean
the "ground" plane from under any and all SM inductors. Depending on the
internal construction of the SM inductor, the close proximity of planes and
traces immediately beneath the inductor will alter its characteristics and
in-place inductance. Even on 2-layer boards at microwave frequencies, this
is a concern. I may even require cleaning the common plane and all traces
from any of the layers under the SM inductors.

Instead of using your 10 nH SM inductor, a 0.5-inch of AWG #18 solid copper
wire would yield something very close to your target inductor. Install it
between the pads intended for your SM inductor and make a very wide hairpin
out of the wire. Even a hair pin will introduce additional inductance over
a linear straight conductor, so you may require a bit less than
0.5-inches.

Dave - W?LEV

On Tue, Mar 18, 2025 at 2:56?AM Nico via groups.io <nicolassimard=
[email protected]> wrote:

Roger,

Thanks for the idea. I already tried sending them an email a while ago for
that exact request ! The phone is still ringing, nobody answered yet at the
other end ;( But I should throw the fishing stick once again using my email
address from the office, that would look more serious... I'll let you know.

In the meantime, I've conducted one more test tonight, with interesting
but a little disappointing results. arrrrgg, I'm missing the knowledge and
there may be something obvious I don't get. Maybe someone has the right
batteries to fit my torch !

I've cut on end of a 36" long RG316. I soldered it to the PCB. I
reinstalled the pcb in its case and made the cable going through a hole on
the underside. Straight out the box I wrapped the cable 3 times around a
Fair-Rite 61 material that has a 0.9" inside diameter. I connected this to
another 12" premade cable then to the VNA just to give me some length. That
is for sure, I took the time to calibrate OSL right before mounting all
that. BTW the load has been done a 50 Ohm 0603 chip resistor at 0.1%
accuracy spec (at 3$ a piece !!).

Picture 1 : Test setup (the same as all my other tests)
Picture 2 : Measurement in this condition (no matching network, only a 0
ohm resitor to pass through)
Picture 3 : Data from the VNA plotted in SimSmith,
Picture 4 : Expected reading (or close) after putting a 10nH in series.
Picture 5 : Actual reading I got after installing the inductor.

Every time I tried to correct/match the antenna it gave me horrible
results like that. There must be something obvious I don't see.

At the end, I do not expect to achieve the 1.5 VSWR flat as in the
datasheet. It is a personal project after all. But if I could at least
match it down to 2, I would be more than happy. This module will be
installed in my backyard and the receiver will be at less than 50 feet. It
is more a matter of learning new things. The one thing I want to avoid
though, is to make it work by pure luck without knowing why.

I'm searching for a needle in the haystack, can someone lend me a metal
detector please !!

Nico

--

*Dave - W?LEV*


--
Dave - W?LEV

A couple more notes:
1 - If your primary use of the nanoVNA is HF up to about 450MHz, then there is no need to buy a new model. I am still actively using my nanoVNA-H4 from 2020, and it is all I need for HF/VHF work. If you plan to use a vna at 900MHz and above, you do want to get a model that handles the higher frequencies better, such as the V2 models or liteVNA64.
2 - I also normally subscribe to the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" model - but the newer firmware for the H4 has extended its functionality quite dramatically. So after you have a good working relationship with your H4, if you want to have more functions to play with, do upgrade to the latest DiSlord release of firmware from here: (get the one with H4 in its name). And if you have not recently done a firmware upgrade on a device like this, you will need to make sure you have the correct driver installed, so please read the firmware update instructions in this group's wiki, and this document that I put together some time ago to make sure you have the correct driver:
/g/nanovna-users/files/Miscellaneous/DFU-mode%20Driver%20for%20Win10Win11
Stan