Re: how good is a rain gutter antenna
In college, while living in the "half underground" lower level of a new brick 12-plex, I used the downspout(s) as a random vertical antenna. My counterpoise was the AC wiring in the building and an aluminum knitting needle pushed into the soil at the bottom of he spout. With my trusty HW-8 and Argonaut 509 (amd crappy MFJ manual tuner), this was a DX machine. I was too inexperienced to realize that it really shouldn't have worked...
Years later, in a new-ish townhouse, my downspout antenna was a total dummy load, no matter what. I replaced it with an attic-mounted 40-meter horizontal loop fed with a remote autocoupler (antenna about 26 feet AGL)...and THAT was an even better DX machine. My townhouse was at highest point in the county, and I could receive TV signals perfectly from 50-70 miles away with the TV Yagi laying on the asphalt driveway...
With spout antennas, each is unique.
And yes, ditch the UNUN, as you almost certainly don't need it.
Best of luck,
Kirk, NT0Z
My book, "Stealth Amateur Radio," is now available from www.stealthamateur.com and on the Amazon Kindle (soon)
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Tuesday, March 4, 2025 at 10:57:33 PM CST, John via groups.io <ve3kkqve3kkq@...> wrote: Mine sucks On Tue, Mar 4, 2025 at 9:24?PM Stan Dye via groups.io <standye= [email protected]> wrote: On Tue, Mar? 4, 2025 at 08:26 AM, W0LEV wrote:
you must have a lot of loss in the system.
Likely due to that crazy 9:1 transformer.
In this case, Dave, it's highly likely the gutter system will have much
more loss than the transformer.? A gutter can be a reasonable antenna if
all of the joints have good RF connections-but that most often requires
work.
|
NanoVNA F V2 not working correctly
I have 2 VNAs . H4 and New F v2. Using the H4 to measure coax length I get a reading that's spot on. But when I use the F V2 the reading is like 60% or more / greater than it should be. H4 at marker reading at top right on the screen 16.01 meters for a 52 ft RG-8X coax. But the F v2 shows for the same coax 1034. m, I know the V2 is different in the menu layout than the H4 and I dont have a menu for the V2. There is something wrong that I'm doing or the F2 VNA is bad.
Cliff W4CBH
|
Re: how good is a rain gutter antenna
Mine sucks On Tue, Mar 4, 2025 at 9:24?PM Stan Dye via groups.io <standye= [email protected]> wrote: On Tue, Mar 4, 2025 at 08:26 AM, W0LEV wrote:
you must have a lot of loss in the system.
Likely due to that crazy 9:1 transformer.
In this case, Dave, it's highly likely the gutter system will have much
more loss than the transformer. A gutter can be a reasonable antenna if
all of the joints have good RF connections-but that most often requires
work.
|
Re: how good is a rain gutter antenna
On Tue, Mar 4, 2025 at 08:26 AM, W0LEV wrote:
you must have a lot of loss in the system.
Likely due to that crazy 9:1 transformer.
In this case, Dave, it's highly likely the gutter system will have much more loss than the transformer. A gutter can be a reasonable antenna if all of the joints have good RF connections-but that most often requires work.
|
Re: Apologies if flogging a dead horse! CAL Correction?
On Tue, Mar 4, 2025 at 01:34 PM, Clyde Lambert wrote:
Can someone please tell me the latest FW version and where to download it?
Thank you in advance
Which device - there are quite a few?
|
Re: Apologies if flogging a dead horse! CAL Correction?
Can someone please tell me the latest FW version and where to download it?
Thank you in advance
Clyde KC7BJE
|
Re: how good is a rain gutter antenna
I also live in an apartment complex. One of my antennas is a rain gutter,
about 50 ft horizontal and it includes the downspouts. Inside my apartment
is a 10-meter-long counterpoise along the wall.
I feed it: radio --> an LC matching network --> a 1:1 balun. This gives
me a good match on 7.120 MHz. I only transmit about 5 watts.
I used the nanoVNA to find the L-C match. It told me a 2.2uH series
inductor, with a 142pF shunt, for my gutter antenna.
If i want to use the gutter on, for example, 20 meter WSPR, i use a 9:1
unun with no matching network. That worked really well also at 5W although
5W is overkill for WSPR.
I have better antennas than the gutter, like an attic brass slinky dipole,
and a rooftop dipole that is pretty much invisible, and a couple mag loops
inside the apartment (QRP < 20W), but i do like my gutter.
73 de WN1Z Orrin
|
Re: Apologies if flogging a dead horse! CAL Correction?
I always do this. Never had any problem, but at least I checked to make sure. Zack W9SZ On Tue, Mar 4, 2025 at 10:50?AM W0LEV via groups.io <davearea51a= [email protected]> wrote: After completing a cal, it's always a good practice to go back and verify
that your OSL actually displays as an OSL.
Dave - W?LEV
On Tue, Mar 4, 2025 at 12:02?AM Gareth Evans via groups.io <headstone255=
[email protected]> wrote:
Stan, thank-you for your input. As it happens, from the timing of your
post I
was actually at the same time watching the W2AEW youtube video on
calibration where he
demonstrated the Correction switch in passing, so I have an answer.
I shall go back to my friend and inform him of the need to update his
firmware
in respect of the missing Correction option.
73 DE G4SDW Gareth
On Mon, Mar 3, 2025 at 11:43 PM, Stan Dye wrote:
Oh, and the 'correction' option in the menu is in -newer- nanovna firmware, so
if your friends doesn't have it, he doesn't have the latest firmware.
So yes, this was a valid question to ask, since the correction option is
quite
recent, and is not in the older documents or videos.
--
*Dave - W?LEV*
--
Dave - W?LEV
<> Virus-free.www.avg.com <> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
|
Re: Apologies if flogging a dead horse! CAL Correction?
Inadvertently I had done just that, because in using the VNA for the
first time for real, tuning the ATU for 40m on the G5RV antenna,
I was getting unbelievably perfect results because the MFJ969 ATU
was switched to its internal dummy load!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks to everyone who has assisted me, 74 years young and
licensed for 55 years but there are still a lot of new fangled things
around to trip one up :-)
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Tue, Mar 4, 2025 at 04:50 PM, W0LEV wrote: After completing a cal, it's always a good practice to go back and verify
that your OSL actually displays as an OSL.
On Tue, Mar 4, 2025 at 12:02?AM Gareth Evans via groups.io <headstone255=
[email protected]> wrote:
Stan, thank-you for your input. As it happens, from the timing of your
post I
was actually at the same time watching the W2AEW youtube video on
calibration where he
demonstrated the Correction switch in passing, so I have an answer.
I shall go back to my friend and inform him of the need to update his
firmware
in respect of the missing Correction option.
73 DE G4SDW Gareth
On Mon, Mar 3, 2025 at 11:43 PM, Stan Dye wrote:
Oh, and the 'correction' option in the menu is in -newer- nanovna firmware, so
if your friends doesn't have it, he doesn't have the latest firmware.
So yes, this was a valid question to ask, since the correction option is quite
recent, and is not in the older documents or videos.
--
*Dave - W?LEV*
--
Dave - W?LEV
|
Re: Apologies if flogging a dead horse! CAL Correction?
After completing a cal, it's always a good practice to go back and verify that your OSL actually displays as an OSL. Dave - W?LEV On Tue, Mar 4, 2025 at 12:02?AM Gareth Evans via groups.io <headstone255= [email protected]> wrote: Stan, thank-you for your input. As it happens, from the timing of your
post I
was actually at the same time watching the W2AEW youtube video on
calibration where he
demonstrated the Correction switch in passing, so I have an answer.
I shall go back to my friend and inform him of the need to update his
firmware
in respect of the missing Correction option.
73 DE G4SDW Gareth
On Mon, Mar 3, 2025 at 11:43 PM, Stan Dye wrote:
Oh, and the 'correction' option in the menu is in -newer- nanovna firmware, so
if your friends doesn't have it, he doesn't have the latest firmware.
So yes, this was a valid question to ask, since the correction option is quite
recent, and is not in the older documents or videos.
-- *Dave - W?LEV* -- Dave - W?LEV
|
Re: how good is a rain gutter antenna
With the maximum SWR ± 2.5 : 1, you must have a lot of loss in the system. Likely due to that crazy 9:1 transformer. You have a NANOVNA, so measure the through loss of that transformer. I'd suggest just feeding your gutter directly without the transformer with a counterpoise. Lay a wire on the soil surface of a good length as a counterpoise instead of a ground rod. Then let a capable manual antenna matching network correct the SWR to keep the transmitter "happy". I was once in your situation having to use a downspout as an antenna in a large apartment complex at the east side of Loveland, Colorado. Yes, the RFI was something to behold!! We were on the third floor, the top-most floor, and I ran coax out to the downspout with an ugly balun at the feedpoint. I used the small patio railing (scraped the paint off one of the mounting legs for contact) as a very small counterpoise. I had a manual matching network inside to correct the SWR. It sort'a worked, but the RFI was unbelievably horrendous! One early morning I decided to try 75-meters. OK, I matched the end of the feedline with the matching network at 10-watts. I slowly increased the power to the system. When I reached 25-watts, the fire alarm for the entire complex (about two city blocks) tripped. Needless to mention, everyone hit the parking lot with no fire present. Be careful what you do in any apartment complex. ????? Would I do it again? Absolutely!! Lunch and supper times were especially "interesting" at and around 2.45 GHz on the spectrum analyzer. All the microwave ovens became active. Don't think for a picosecond those ovens don't leak! With the broadband horn antenna, I could pick out nearly every one, even from several blocks away. Dave - W?LEV On Tue, Mar 4, 2025 at 2:55?PM Barry K3EUI via groups.io <k3euibarry= [email protected]> wrote:
* RAIN GUTTER ANTENNA on upper HF bands*
*
*
*I've been experimenting with a variety of HF antennas here at my new
QTH at Crosslands Retirement Community in Kennett Square, PA.
*
*I have some space limitations, but live on the first floor of a
two-story apartment building.*
*Lots of RFI from everywhere inside the building - S9 on 80m and 40m,
less noise on 20 and 10m.
*
*
*
*I have a 140 ft end-fed wire with a 49:1 UNUN which tunes up easily on
80/40/20m and not so well on 17m/15m/10m.*
*This end-fed is horizontal, low to the ground (winds among trees) and
is good for high-angle NVIS radiation on 80/40m.*
*I use it on the PA NBEMS net (3583 kHz) and on the Mid-Atlantic NBEMS
net (7068 kHz)
*
*
*
*
*
*I'd like to get up something with a _low-angle_ signal for DX on
20/17/10m bands. *
*But can I keep any HF antenna "hidden"?*
*
*
*What I am now trying is the aluminum _rain gutter_ for our building,
vertical for about 20 ft, makes a right angle turn and runs horizontally
for about 20 ft.*
*The coax attaches at the base of the gutter, near ground, to a 9:1 UNUN
with a sheet metal screw into the gutter for a decent electrical
connection.
*
*
*
*So overall, about 40 ft of thick (painted) aluminum gutter radiating
element - in the shape of an inverted L and not resonant on any ham
band.*
*Lowest SWR around 16 MHz. It looks like it might work out on the 30m
band as well (10.1 MHz).
*
*I have a Palomar Engineering (500W rating) 9:1 UNUN on 50 ft RG8X
coax into the shack (closet).*
*I have one counterpoise wire about 20 ft long attached to the UNUN
ground terminal.*
*Then a good manual tuner in the shack to an HF rig for very low SWR on
any band.
*
*
*
*Here is what I see on my Nano VNA from 10 - 30 MHz: not bad SWR
(under 2.5:1) in the shack on 20/17/15/10 meters.*
*I'll give it a try over the next few weeks and see if the local noise
is more/less on these bands, compared to my 140 ft end-fed.*
*
*
*I'm often running QRP on these bands, CW and digi modes only.
*
*
*
*de k3eui barry*
-- *Dave - W?LEV* -- Dave - W?LEV
|
how good is a rain gutter antenna
*? ?? RAIN? GUTTER? ANTENNA?? on upper HF bands*
*
*
*I've been experimenting with a variety of HF antennas here at my new QTH at Crosslands Retirement Community in Kennett Square, PA.
*
*I have some space limitations, but live on the first floor of a two-story apartment building.*
*Lots of RFI from everywhere inside the building? - S9 on 80m and 40m, less noise on 20 and 10m.
*
*
*
*I have a? 140 ft end-fed wire with a 49:1 UNUN which tunes up easily on 80/40/20m? and not so well on 17m/15m/10m.*
*This end-fed is horizontal, low to the ground (winds among trees) and is good for high-angle NVIS radiation on 80/40m.*
*I use it on the PA NBEMS net (3583 kHz) and on the Mid-Atlantic NBEMS net (7068 kHz)
*
*
*
*
*
*I'd like to get up something with a _low-angle_ signal for DX on? 20/17/10m bands. *
*But can I keep any HF antenna "hidden"?*
*
*
*What I am now trying is the aluminum _rain gutter_? for our building, vertical for about 20 ft, makes a right angle turn and runs horizontally for about 20 ft.*
*The coax attaches at the base of the gutter, near ground, to a 9:1 UNUN with a sheet metal screw into the gutter for a decent electrical connection.
*
*
*
*So overall, about 40 ft of thick (painted) aluminum gutter radiating element - in the shape of an inverted? L and? not resonant on any ham band.*
*Lowest SWR around? 16 MHz.? It looks like it might work out on the 30m band as well (10.1 MHz).
*
*I have a Palomar Engineering? (500W rating) 9:1? UNUN on? 50 ft RG8X? coax into the shack (closet).*
*I have one counterpoise wire about 20 ft long attached to the UNUN?? ground terminal.*
*Then a good manual tuner in the shack to an HF rig for very low SWR on any band.
*
*
*
*Here is what I see on my Nano VNA from 10 - 30 MHz: ? not bad SWR? (under 2.5:1) ? in the shack on 20/17/15/10 meters.*
*I'll give it a try over the next few weeks and see if the local noise is more/less on these bands, compared to my 140 ft end-fed.*
*
*
*I'm often running QRP on these bands, CW and digi modes only.
*
*
*
*de k3eui? barry*
|
Re: Apologies if flogging a dead horse! CAL Correction?
Stan, thank-you for your input. As it happens, from the timing of your post I
was actually at the same time watching the W2AEW youtube video on calibration where he
demonstrated the Correction switch in passing, so I have an answer.
I shall go back to my friend and inform him of the need to update his firmware
in respect of the missing Correction option.
73 DE G4SDW Gareth
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mon, Mar 3, 2025 at 11:43 PM, Stan Dye wrote: Oh, and the 'correction' option in the menu is in -newer- nanovna firmware, so
if your friends doesn't have it, he doesn't have the latest firmware.
So yes, this was a valid question to ask, since the correction option is quite
recent, and is not in the older documents or videos.
|
Re: Apologies if flogging a dead horse! CAL Correction?
Oh, and the 'correction' option in the menu is in -newer- nanovna firmware, so if your friends doesn't have it, he doesn't have the latest firmware.
So yes, this was a valid question to ask, since the correction option is quite recent, and is not in the older documents or videos.
|
Re: Apologies if flogging a dead horse! CAL Correction?
Gareth,
This option is simply a switch that turns the calibration on and off. When it is checked, it is on.
But the main status is at the left side of the display, along the center-left edge. If there is a capital 'C' there in white, the calibration is on, and the number after the calibration indicates which memory slot it was read from. If there is a '*' instead of a number after the C, it means you either haven't stored the calibration or you loaded it from the SD card.
It will probably help you to read the "Absolute Beginners Guide to the NanoVNA" (available in the files section of this group), and to watch some nanovna 'getting started' videos on youtube - there are tons of them. The ones by W2AEW are particularly good.
Note that many of the videos were done a couple of years ago with an earlier version of firmware, which didn't have as many features. So the items in the menu system may look a bit different - but everything is still there.
Stan
|
Re: Apologies if flogging a dead horse! CAL Correction?
OK, thanks for that reference, but how do I know whether or not
the correction is being applied? Is there a status flag?
ie, after doing a calibration, do I leave the Correction option alone
or press it once?
A friend who has a newer VNA says that he doesn't have a Correction
option in his CAL menu
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
|
Re: Apologies if flogging a dead horse! CAL Correction?
|
Larry, what a wonderful message. I don't think this is the place to chat so I'll send you an email.
Brian
|
Off Topic...
Brian,
I have fond memories of your Antenna modeling program - from back in the day.. I would load parameters and let the computer run all night. I didn't have a co-processor nor could afford the $99 then $69 for one, as time went buy. Life happened, my job took me Detroit to The DC area, then up to Boston area, then out here to Wichita Kansas, and then retirement. 24 years ago my wife Ann passed and left me a 10 year old boy to raise.. That ended ANN-tennas - a swap & shop business that has been dormant since.
However as your antenna modeling software took a back seat, I went on to EZNEC and enjoy that even today.
So thanks for the memories and the contributions to Ham Radio.
If you ever get to "cow town" Wichita, Kansas let me know I have some no fertilizer (can't afford it) no hormones, (why?) grass fed born and raised on my 25 acres - irradiated (100watts) under my homebrew antennas, steaks we can put on the grill. I also have some Canadian beer as my grandkids live in NY and I bring it back from Buffalo. Maybe we can start a beer can antenna of your design..
Larry W8LM
ARRL Life member Licensed 59 years.
past President 2 terms, VFW post 3115 Amateur Radio Club, W?VFW, Wichita, KANSAS
|
Apologies if flogging a dead horse! CAL Correction?
I've only just found and joined this group and am using a donated VNA
for the first time. So I apologise if I am repeating a topic that is hidden
deep within the history of this group.
In the CAL menu there is a Correction option but I cannot find
any mention or explanation of it despite Google being my friend,
and it is not covered in G4WNC's book, "NanoVNAs Explained".
What is the purpose of the CAL Correction option and what effect
does it have on the VNA?
TIA ES 73 DE G4SDW Gareth
|
Kirk Kleinschmidt, NT0Z
Roger Need
Clyde Lambert
Barry K3EUI
Larry Macionski