Follow-up to last post. Here are some more measurements of a 1K SMD DUT. Using NanoVNA -H4 (1.2.19 fw) in standalone mode (no PC) and comparing it to NanoVNA Saver and OD NanoVNA app. Measurements made on H4 were exported as a s1p file and imported into NanoVNA app for plotting.
1. Compare NanoVNA-H4 and NanoVNA Saver using 3M coax cable.
2. Compare NanoVNA-H4 and NanoVNA App using 3M coax cable.
3. Compare NanoVNA-H4 using 3M and 15 cm coax cables.
What is evident is close agreement between the 15 cm and 3M results when using the NanoVNA-H4 in standalone mode. So the long cable de-embedding works nicely on the -H4 firmware by DiSlord. Comparison between Saver and -H4 in standalone mode with 3m coax also showed good results. However NanoVNA app does not do well on 3m tests.
Roger
|
Thanks for the reply and information.
I did recalibrate and saved them to SD. But the RECALL FROM SD menu item isn't there in 1.2.14. I rolled back to 1.2.0 for now.
Regards
|
On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 10:05 PM, DiSlord wrote:
Calibrate device in measured range.
Interpolation not give good results for long cables (on big phase change for
measured points)
I agree that you should calibrate for the measured range and that interpolation must be used carefully. Here are two examples where I calibrate over 50k to 900 MHz and want to measure some 0805 SMD resistors. I am not using interpolation. Test conditions: --------------------- - NanoVNA-H4 was calibrated for 50 to 900 kHz. but measurements were made using OD NanoVNA app and NanoVNA Saver version 5.3 - Calibration in both programs was done using 401 points and without sweep averaging - 3m of RG-316 coax was used with SMD test jig on far end. Calibration load was 50 ohm 0805 SMD resistor (see attached for photo of setup). Two 0805 SMD resistors were tested (100 and 1k ohms) - NanoVNA Saver test results saved as s1p file and imported into NanoVNA app for plotting comparison. Results are attached. It is easy to see that something is wrong with NanoVNA App calibration on longer cables. Roger
|
Hi david
I am not at home right now so not near my laptop but this might help?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2 Mar 2023, at 4:44 pm, David Reams <dwr.kj4de@...> wrote:
?It looks like it is conflicting with another port. Below is what I am
seeing on my laptop:
[image: image.png]
[image: image.png]
It appears that it is trying to conflict with Port 3. What is the best way
to solve the port contradiction?
Again, thanks for your help!!!
David
On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 4:36?AM robert miles <bob@...> wrote:
Hi David
If you right click on the STM Device in dfu mode and select properties.
Go to update driver.
Browse to the install directory for the STM software ( prob in programs
x86) and press enter.
That should fix it.
Other thing to check is that the com port assigned to the STM USB driver
is correct and not clashing with another in device manager.
Worked for me with W10 on 64 bit machine.
On 1 Mar 2023, at 12:35 am, David Reams <dwr.kj4de@...> wrote: ?I am still unable to get the nanoVNA to assign a port. I have Windows 10
and the nanoVNA will not automatically assign a port and the program
suggested above does not assign a port. When I place the nanoVNA in DFU
mode it does show "STM Device in DFU Mode". under Universal Serial bus
Controllers. Otherwise it shows "Unknown device" if not in DFU mode. No
port assignment is indicated at all. I might be having a problem with
the nanoVNA equipment itself. When not connected to a PC, the device
works
fine.
Maybe this problem can be solved, but if there is, in fact, a problem with
the device, no solution would be forthcoming.
Again, thanks for all of your help!!
David
.
On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 1:31?PM Roger Need via groups.io <sailtamarack=
[email protected]> wrote:
On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 06:33 PM, David Reams wrote:
Can you give me some more information on the STM boot loader and a source to
download?
David,
There are two different drivers required when using a NanoVNA-H or
NanoVNA-H4. One is required to get a COMxx: port so that your PC can
exchange data with a NanoVNA. The other driver is required when you want
to do firmware updates on your device.
COM port driver
---------------------
With Windows 10 and Windows 11 the required driver will be installed by
Windows when you connect your NanoVNA to a USB port. With Windows 7 and
Windows 8 you have to manually install the driver and then plug in your
NanoVNA. If Windows 10 fails to install the driver (rarely happens) you
can use the Windows 8 driver. You can check that the driver is working
by
plugging in and turning on your NanoVNA and then going into Device
Manager
and looking under ports to get the COM port number that has been
assigned
If you power off the NanoVNA the COM port should disappear from Device
Manager. I have put a copy of the drivers on my BOX account for you to
download. Here is a link where you can download it >>
Unzip and select the 32 or 64 bit version for your computer.
Firmware Upgrade driver
---------------------------------
This driver is only required when you want to upgrade your firmware. It
does not assign a COM port when the NanoVNA is plugged in and in DFU
mode.
DFU mode is activated in different ways depending on your device and the
firmware installed. Old devices had to be put in DFU mode by opening
the
case and shorting the Boot0 and DFU pins. In other cases DFU was
accessed
by a Menu selection. DFU mode on the -H4 is activated by depressing the
rocker switch down and powering on the anoVNA. When in DFU mode the
screen
will be black. You can check that the driver is installed correctly by
looking under USB controllers and seeing if it shows that your device
is in
DFU mode (see attached screenshot). I have posted a link to the DfuSe
package on my Box account for you. It will install the DFU driver and
the
DfuSe firmware upgrade application.
The Absolute Beginners Guide in the file section of this group tells you
how to install the DFU drivers that are needed for firmware update and
how
to install the latest firmware.
/g/nanovna-users/files/Absolute%20Beginner%20Guide%20to%20The%20NanoVNA/Absolute_Beginner_Guide_NanoVNA_v1_6.pdf
You don't have to register to get the DFU program and drivers. I have
put
a copy on my Box account for you...
Roger
<image.png>
<image.png>
|
I agree. A tiny bias above 1 along with noise. I plotted it just to compare with the earlier NanoVNA-App plot.
Brian
|
@Brian - It may be relevant. Comparison of Open in calibrated NanoVNA-App and calibrated NanoVNA-Saver. In Saver it looks better, oscillating around 1 and in NanoVNA-App it is > 1 for all points.
|
On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 07:52 AM, <btomek@...> wrote:
For OPEN and SHORT calibrators, such values are correct because ideal
OPEN = {1.0000000 0.0000000i}
SHORT = {-1.0000000 0.0000000i}
Adding the measurement noise and interference, we can get |Sij|>1
It's not due to noise. The data is noisy, but the real part is > 1 for all points. I have seen this in other VNAs. I don't think it's pertinent to your calibration issue. Brian
|
It looks like it is conflicting with another port. Below is what I am
seeing on my laptop:
[image: image.png]
[image: image.png]
It appears that it is trying to conflict with Port 3. What is the best way
to solve the port contradiction?
Again, thanks for your help!!!
David
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 4:36?AM robert miles <bob@...> wrote: Hi David
If you right click on the STM Device in dfu mode and select properties.
Go to update driver.
Browse to the install directory for the STM software ( prob in programs
x86) and press enter.
That should fix it.
Other thing to check is that the com port assigned to the STM USB driver
is correct and not clashing with another in device manager.
Worked for me with W10 on 64 bit machine.
On 1 Mar 2023, at 12:35 am, David Reams <dwr.kj4de@...> wrote:
?I am still unable to get the nanoVNA to assign a port. I have Windows 10
and the nanoVNA will not automatically assign a port and the program
suggested above does not assign a port. When I place the nanoVNA in DFU
mode it does show "STM Device in DFU Mode". under Universal Serial bus
Controllers. Otherwise it shows "Unknown device" if not in DFU mode. No
port assignment is indicated at all. I might be having a problem with
the nanoVNA equipment itself. When not connected to a PC, the device works
fine.
Maybe this problem can be solved, but if there is, in fact, a problem with
the device, no solution would be forthcoming.
Again, thanks for all of your help!!
David
.
On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 1:31?PM Roger Need via groups.io <sailtamarack=
[email protected]> wrote:
On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 06:33 PM, David Reams wrote:
Can you give me some more information on the STM boot loader and a source to
download?
David,
There are two different drivers required when using a NanoVNA-H or
NanoVNA-H4. One is required to get a COMxx: port so that your PC can
exchange data with a NanoVNA. The other driver is required when you want
to do firmware updates on your device.
COM port driver
---------------------
With Windows 10 and Windows 11 the required driver will be installed by
Windows when you connect your NanoVNA to a USB port. With Windows 7 and
Windows 8 you have to manually install the driver and then plug in your
NanoVNA. If Windows 10 fails to install the driver (rarely happens) you
can use the Windows 8 driver. You can check that the driver is working
by
plugging in and turning on your NanoVNA and then going into Device
Manager
and looking under ports to get the COM port number that has been
assigned
If you power off the NanoVNA the COM port should disappear from Device
Manager. I have put a copy of the drivers on my BOX account for you to
download. Here is a link where you can download it >>
Unzip and select the 32 or 64 bit version for your computer.
Firmware Upgrade driver
---------------------------------
This driver is only required when you want to upgrade your firmware. It
does not assign a COM port when the NanoVNA is plugged in and in DFU
mode.
DFU mode is activated in different ways depending on your device and the
firmware installed. Old devices had to be put in DFU mode by opening
the
case and shorting the Boot0 and DFU pins. In other cases DFU was
accessed
by a Menu selection. DFU mode on the -H4 is activated by depressing the
rocker switch down and powering on the anoVNA. When in DFU mode the
screen
will be black. You can check that the driver is installed correctly by
looking under USB controllers and seeing if it shows that your device
is in
DFU mode (see attached screenshot). I have posted a link to the DfuSe
package on my Box account for you. It will install the DFU driver and
the
DfuSe firmware upgrade application.
The Absolute Beginners Guide in the file section of this group tells you
how to install the DFU drivers that are needed for firmware update and
how
to install the latest firmware.
/g/nanovna-users/files/Absolute%20Beginner%20Guide%20to%20The%20NanoVNA/Absolute_Beginner_Guide_NanoVNA_v1_6.pdf
You don't have to register to get the DFU program and drivers. I have
put
a copy on my Box account for you...
Roger
|
On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 07:05 AM, DiSlord wrote:
Calibrate device in measured range.
Interpolation not give good results for long cables (on big phase change for measured points)
@DiSlord - But that's exactly right. The measurement range is identical to the calibration range, the number of points is also the same, the calibration frequencies are equal to the measurement frequencies, and the result in NanoVNA-App is incorrect. Note that your "GOOD" files also have invalid |S11| values. @Brian - For OPEN and SHORT calibrators, such values are correct because ideal OPEN = {1.0000000 0.0000000i} SHORT = {-1.0000000 0.0000000i} Adding the measurement noise and interference, we can get |Sij|>1 Another little error may have been added by a malfunctioning calibration in the NanoVNA-App.
|
This is how my (bought in 2023) H4_MS Model looks
Note the _MS at the end of the HW Version
And yes ... You can change the setting in the GUI too , if you have loaded the wrong one.
Just remember to do a save after changing it.
|
Thank you all for the valuable information. The NanoVna works with the new firmware without any problems.
73 Zdenek
|
Remember state - allow save some device settings after power off like:
Start/stop frequency
Bandwidth
Backlight
Options
Threshold - this option set frequency threshold after this device use harmonic mode for measure
Old calibration not possible load on new firmware, need recalibrate and save new
|
Hi there, I¡¯m running Hugen¡¯s 1.2.14 firmware, which I like because it lets you save more calibrations. It will also do more data points across the sweep.
But I lost some of the defaults along the way, so I have some questions.
What Expert settings do people use for stuff like Electrical Delay and Threshold?
And what does REMEMBER STATE do?
Lastly, I can save my calibrations to the SD card, but can¡¯t find a way to recall them from it!
Any guidance gratefully accepted. Thanks
|
Calibrate device in measured range.
Interpolation not give good results for long cables (on big phase change for measured points)
|
Hello Roger,
Just an observation, The green App curves have a distinct spike at the 5351 clock gen harmonic change points; ~300MHz, ~600MHz, 900Mhz.
Cheers...Bob VK2ZRE
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2/03/2023 5:20 am, Roger Need via groups.io wrote: I did a comparison calibration with the NanoVNA itself and NanoVNA app (DiSlord version) using a cable that was 30 cm (12") long. Results were better than the 3M cable I posted earlier but I think I will stick with NanoVNA calibration and no longer calibrate in NanoVNA app.
Hopefully DiSlord or Owen Duffy will investigate as they seem to be the only ones modifying this program.
Roger
|
Re: check "Dollar Tree" store. Now Dollar and a Quarter!
Dave,
Totally transparent now.
73
John
VE7KKQ
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 11:24?AM Dave Merrill <r390a.urr@...> wrote: The outlets my SIL replaced came from a reputable source, NOT Dollar Tree.
Sorry if that wasn't clear.
Dave N9ZC
On Wed, Mar 1, 2023, 12:38 PM John <ve3kkqve3kkq@...> wrote:
I would NOT use wall outlets, light switches or anything else that
physically attaches to my home and home electrical system.
Some Chinese manufacturers are well known for placing/marking their goods
with fraudulent symbols from testing organisations such as CE, UL and CSA.
It is your house, if saving two to three dollars over a known
commercially
branded product is worth the risk of your house going up in flames, that is
up to you.
Who are you going to sue when your home insurance company has completed
their investigation and determined that your house turned into smoke
because of a fraudulently certified electrical fitting was the cause,
therefore they won't pay out... Dollar Tree?
I know that in the Province of Ontario, Canada, if you install electrical
circuits in your home and do not get it inspected and certified by a
qualified electrician and you have an electrical fire and your insurance
company finds out the electrical modifications were not inspected/certified
by an electrician, your fire insurance is null and void AND no other
insurance company will insure you.
Your choice, think about it...
John
VE7KKQ
On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 9:32?AM Dave Merrill <r390a.urr@...> wrote:
The inventory at Dollar Tree varies considerably from store to store and
visit to visit.
My son-in-law replaced some AC wall outlets with newer types that also
sport two USB charging ports. My daughter and family use Apple devices and
my wife and I use the same model of Android phone with USB-C. I dropped by
our local Dollar Tree and got two cables for us to leave at their place so
we didn't need to bring along chargers.
These cables had well molded strain reliefs at both ends and fabric
braid
over the cable. They have been working great for the past few months
and
my
SIL also uses them on his USB-C gadgets. The only negative is the length
-
just 1 meter.
Impressed by how well they worked, I went to a couple different Dollar Tree
stores by my SIL and near home and could not find them again anywhere.
Dave N9ZC
On Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 1:27 PM Jim Allyn - N7JA < jim@...
wrote:
On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 11:19 AM, Clyde Lambert wrote:
I purchased a couple of USB lead wires from Dollar Tree. They
lasted
about
three or four weeks, then the insulation started separateing from
the
back of
the connector housing. I've noticed that with some of the cables I have purchased from
Dollar
Tree also, but mine are two or three years old, maybe more. Some are
plugged into and unplugged from the phone or other devices daily, sometimes
more than once a day. Maybe I'll buy some expensive cables some day, maybe
not. If you can recommend a brand that you think will provide better bang
for the buck, I'd consider buying some.
|
Re: reinforce cables with a bit of glue
On Wednesday 01 March 2023 02:16:03 pm KENT BRITAIN wrote: The only time I have had any issues with a USB cable was with a girlfriend.?? She would jerk the plug out of the phone pulling on the cable rather than grabbing the connector.
I know of one young lady who used to do that with extension cords, until the time she did it and the cord came away, leaving the plug in the socket and enough wire sticking out to generate quite the light show. I don't think she did it again after that.. :-) -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin
|
Re: check "Dollar Tree" store. Now Dollar and a Quarter!
The outlets my SIL replaced came from a reputable source, NOT Dollar Tree.
Sorry if that wasn't clear.
Dave N9ZC
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Wed, Mar 1, 2023, 12:38 PM John <ve3kkqve3kkq@...> wrote: I would NOT use wall outlets, light switches or anything else that
physically attaches to my home and home electrical system.
Some Chinese manufacturers are well known for placing/marking their goods
with fraudulent symbols from testing organisations such as CE, UL and CSA.
It is your house, if saving two to three dollars over a known commercially
branded product is worth the risk of your house going up in flames, that is
up to you.
Who are you going to sue when your home insurance company has completed
their investigation and determined that your house turned into smoke
because of a fraudulently certified electrical fitting was the cause,
therefore they won't pay out... Dollar Tree?
I know that in the Province of Ontario, Canada, if you install electrical
circuits in your home and do not get it inspected and certified by a
qualified electrician and you have an electrical fire and your insurance
company finds out the electrical modifications were not inspected/certified
by an electrician, your fire insurance is null and void AND no other
insurance company will insure you.
Your choice, think about it...
John
VE7KKQ
On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 9:32?AM Dave Merrill <r390a.urr@...> wrote:
The inventory at Dollar Tree varies considerably from store to store and
visit to visit.
My son-in-law replaced some AC wall outlets with newer types that also
sport two USB charging ports. My daughter and family use Apple devices and
my wife and I use the same model of Android phone with USB-C. I dropped by
our local Dollar Tree and got two cables for us to leave at their place so
we didn't need to bring along chargers.
These cables had well molded strain reliefs at both ends and fabric braid
over the cable. They have been working great for the past few months and my
SIL also uses them on his USB-C gadgets. The only negative is the length -
just 1 meter.
Impressed by how well they worked, I went to a couple different Dollar Tree
stores by my SIL and near home and could not find them again anywhere.
Dave N9ZC
On Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 1:27 PM Jim Allyn - N7JA <jim@...
wrote:
On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 11:19 AM, Clyde Lambert wrote:
I purchased a couple of USB lead wires from Dollar Tree. They lasted about
three or four weeks, then the insulation started separateing from the back of
the connector housing. I've noticed that with some of the cables I have purchased from Dollar
Tree also, but mine are two or three years old, maybe more. Some are
plugged into and unplugged from the phone or other devices daily, sometimes
more than once a day. Maybe I'll buy some expensive cables some day, maybe
not. If you can recommend a brand that you think will provide better bang
for the buck, I'd consider buying some.
|
Re: reinforce cables with a bit of glue
They have an inventory of about 50 different USB cables of different types, colors, and lengths.Pick the one you think looks best.?? The only time I have had any issues with a USB cable was with a girlfriend.?? She would jerk the plug out of the phone pulling on the cable rather than grabbing the connector.
There are NO companies in North American making USB cables and power supplies.They are all coming from the same Foxcon plants in the PRC.?? Yes, Apple charges 10 times more for the same accessory that came out of the same plant.
Personal mods to equipment and accessories is the hallmark of hobbiest like us.
Gee .... after all, where did the Nano's come from! hihi
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 01:04:22 PM CST, Charles Young <ctyoung@...> wrote:
If the Dollar Tree cables look weak you might reinforce the back end of the connector-cable connection with a bit of super glue or epoxy.
Chuck KF8TI
|
The MS chip is not a clone. It is or was used in place of the SI chip due to unavailability of the SI chip.
Check the back of your NanoVNA.
If there is a MS at the end of the serial number, then use the MS version. If not use the SI version.
This has been addressed before.
KC7BJE
|
Roger Need
Carsten F (OZ1FTG)
Zdenek OK2BQN
Dave Merrill
Clyde Lambert