On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 05:54 AM, <btomek@...> wrote:
I think both separators should be supported when reading the file.
The compiler may not support comma separators. For example, my compiler yields 1 when evaluating this string: 1,234. You can get around this by evaluating the number character by character, which is complicated if you allow scientific notation in all its variations, or you can replace commas with periods. The latter is easy, but it fails when the code processes a CSV file, which some VNAs generate and which most of my programs are designed to handle. It was easy to accommodate commas in the program that checks S-parameter magnitudes since it does not have to deal with CSV files. Incidentally, the updated program is here: Note that your "GOOD" files also have invalid |S11| values. Brian
|
Strange "Scatter" Sweep Traces VNA ver 1.1
I now have a 'new' Ver 1.1, 21Dec2021**
The features and functions I needed are now at Hand.
Excelsior!
**LIkely others by now.
--
Chuck, W5USJ
|
I changed the code to accommodate your files. One offending point for
OPEN_CHANGED.s1p occurs at 300 MHz. That may provide a clue:: @Brian - My s1p was generated in NanoVNA-App. Whether there is a period or a comma probably depends on operating system's regional settings. According to wikipedia more countries use a comma instead of a period. In NanoVNA-App, the lower left corner says what the decimal separator character is. In NanoVNA device, you can choose what the separator should be: Menu/Config/Expert settings/More/Separator I think both separators should be supported when reading the file. When writing, it should be as the standard specifies. If it specifies. Going back to the test, I wanted to check whether the calibration data from the frequency 888750625 is responsible for the measurement result on 888750625 or maybe for something else, such as a bug on a neighboring result. However, it came out that every single calibration point affects 4 results, which was a surprise to me. The value of the result is not important, because the calibration data at the changed points is random, but such that it deviates significantly from what it was. Hence, the result will also be random, and may be > 1.
|
I changed the code to accommodate your files. One offending point for OPEN_CHANGED.s1p occurs at 300 MHz. That may provide a clue::
297033500 1,001980424e+00 1,973727951e-03
299283375 8,971092105e-01 1,766025904e-03
301533250 -1,148890305e+01 8,992123604e+00
303783125 -6,962405443e-01 5,263801292e-02
306033000 8,130612373e-01 -7,944851182e-03
Brian
|
On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 02:25 AM, <btomek@...> wrote:
Full s1p in attachment.
I'm curious why your Touchstone files use commas rather than periods in decimal numbers. The utilities and programs I write used to check for commas and replace them with periods, but to simplify the code I dropped that check after not encountering any files with commas for a long time. None of that software will work with your files. This includes a utility that checks for |Sij| > 1, which is invalid but occurs in several of your files. Brian
|
Roger, thank you for reproducing the experiment. We have clarity that it is a Bug after all.
I did an experiment in which I change the calibration data for a 4 specific frequencies by editing a copy of the .cal file in Notepad and I compared the s1p results for the correct cal file and the changed one. It seems to me that change one specific frequency should affect the results for that specific frequency, while affecting as many as 4 results. On top of that, the most affected result is not the one for which the calibration is changed, but an erlier one, especialy on higher frequencies.There was no cable here, only calibration directly on the NanoVNA SMA, and measurements directly on this SMA.
changed cal freq: 74295875, 303783125, 801005500, 888750625
Examples for short:
| Freqency|GoodRe|GoodIm|ChanRe|ChanIm|
| 74295875:
| 69796125|-1,0005|-0,0006|-0,9948|-0,0025|
| 72046000|-1,0005|-0,0007|-1,1217| 0,0452|
| 74295875|-1,0005|-0,0007| 0,4790| 0,3642|
| 76545750|-1,0007|-0,0008|-0,9309|-0,0208|
303783125:
|299283375|-0,9999|-0,0052|-0,9071| 0,0064|
|301533250|-1,0016|-0,0021|-3,1341|-5,7410|
|303783125|-1,0016|-0,0021| 0,8167|-0,2290|
|306033000|-1,0031|-0,0023|-0,8319| 0,0202|
801005500:
|796505750|-1,0076|-0,0061|-0,8507|-0,0095|
|798755625|-1,0068|-0,0033| 0,2271| 0,1437|
|801005500|-1,0081|-0,0062|-1,4934| 0,0379|
|803255375|-1,0075|-0,0055|-0,9863|-0,0060|
888750625:
|884250875|-1,0099|-0,0032|-0,9716| 0,0039|
|886500750|-1,0100|-0,0040| 0,2426| 0,1202|
|888750625|-1,0105|-0,0051|-1,0426|-0,0117|
|891000500|-1,0063|-0,0056|-1,0061|-0,0055|
Full s1p in attachment.
There is probably some function that tries to smooth the calibration data, average it or filter it. Perhaps this function is used for interpolation if the calibration frequencies do not match the measurement frequencies.
Just trying to guess, maybe I am writing nonsense. I don't really know how this calibration correction works, and I would love to know.
It would be great if someone would fix it.
|
Hi David
If you right click on the STM Device in dfu mode and select properties.
Go to update driver.
Browse to the install directory for the STM software ( prob in programs x86) and press enter.
That should fix it.
Other thing to check is that the com port assigned to the STM USB driver is correct and not clashing with another in device manager.
Worked for me with W10 on 64 bit machine.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 1 Mar 2023, at 12:35 am, David Reams <dwr.kj4de@...> wrote:
?I am still unable to get the nanoVNA to assign a port. I have Windows 10
and the nanoVNA will not automatically assign a port and the program
suggested above does not assign a port. When I place the nanoVNA in DFU
mode it does show "STM Device in DFU Mode". under Universal Serial bus
Controllers. Otherwise it shows "Unknown device" if not in DFU mode. No
port assignment is indicated at all. I might be having a problem with
the nanoVNA equipment itself. When not connected to a PC, the device works
fine.
Maybe this problem can be solved, but if there is, in fact, a problem with
the device, no solution would be forthcoming.
Again, thanks for all of your help!!
David
.
On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 1:31?PM Roger Need via groups.io <sailtamarack=
[email protected]> wrote:
On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 06:33 PM, David Reams wrote:
Can you give me some more information on the STM boot loader and a source to
download?
David,
There are two different drivers required when using a NanoVNA-H or
NanoVNA-H4. One is required to get a COMxx: port so that your PC can
exchange data with a NanoVNA. The other driver is required when you want
to do firmware updates on your device.
COM port driver
---------------------
With Windows 10 and Windows 11 the required driver will be installed by
Windows when you connect your NanoVNA to a USB port. With Windows 7 and
Windows 8 you have to manually install the driver and then plug in your
NanoVNA. If Windows 10 fails to install the driver (rarely happens) you
can use the Windows 8 driver. You can check that the driver is working by
plugging in and turning on your NanoVNA and then going into Device Manager
and looking under ports to get the COM port number that has been assigned
If you power off the NanoVNA the COM port should disappear from Device
Manager. I have put a copy of the drivers on my BOX account for you to
download. Here is a link where you can download it >>
Unzip and select the 32 or 64 bit version for your computer.
Firmware Upgrade driver
---------------------------------
This driver is only required when you want to upgrade your firmware. It
does not assign a COM port when the NanoVNA is plugged in and in DFU mode.
DFU mode is activated in different ways depending on your device and the
firmware installed. Old devices had to be put in DFU mode by opening the
case and shorting the Boot0 and DFU pins. In other cases DFU was accessed
by a Menu selection. DFU mode on the -H4 is activated by depressing the
rocker switch down and powering on the anoVNA. When in DFU mode the screen
will be black. You can check that the driver is installed correctly by
looking under USB controllers and seeing if it shows that your device is in
DFU mode (see attached screenshot). I have posted a link to the DfuSe
package on my Box account for you. It will install the DFU driver and the
DfuSe firmware upgrade application.
The Absolute Beginners Guide in the file section of this group tells you
how to install the DFU drivers that are needed for firmware update and how
to install the latest firmware.
/g/nanovna-users/files/Absolute%20Beginner%20Guide%20to%20The%20NanoVNA/Absolute_Beginner_Guide_NanoVNA_v1_6.pdf
You don't have to register to get the DFU program and drivers. I have put
a copy on my Box account for you...
Roger
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group.
View/Reply Online (#31590): /g/nanovna-users/message/31590
Mute This Topic: /mt/96994660/1030204
-=-=-
Learn about the NanoVNA in the following forum areas:
Documentation & Update Files: /g/nanovna-users/files
Knowledge-based Wiki: /g/nanovna-users/wiki
-=-=-
Group Owner: [email protected]
Unsubscribe: /g/nanovna-users/leave/12063674/1030204/1581205739/xyzzy [robertmiles.home@...]
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
|
On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 05:25 PM, Ed Wilson wrote:
I received my LiteVNA today and calibrated it right away over several
frequency ranges, one up to 6 GHz. I checked the response of a 1.3 GHz and a
2.3 GHz microstrip LPF and a 2.3 GHz microstrip BPF that I recently designed
and fabricated and the curves look pretty good. I am using it with the
NanoVNA-App software on a Windows 10 machine.
The firmware installed on the device is dated August 30, 2022 so I am
wondering if a more recent version is available and where I might check for
newer versions as they become available (with download links)?
You have the latest official version from Hugen. DiSlord has made many updates to the firmware since then. Try joining this group for more info... /g/liteVNA/Roger
|
I received my LiteVNA today and calibrated it right away over several frequency ranges, one up to 6 GHz. I checked the response of a 1.3 GHz and a 2.3 GHz microstrip LPF and a 2.3 GHz microstrip BPF that I recently designed and fabricated and the curves look pretty good. I am using it with the NanoVNA-App software on a Windows 10 machine.
I plan to try to design, fabricate, and test some higher frequency filters, amplifiers and mixers in the very near future so this new ¡°toy¡± will be put to good use. I realize that the specs are somewhat degraded above 3 GHz but they will be ok for my purposes.
The firmware installed on the device is dated August 30, 2022 so I am wondering if a more recent version is available and where I might check for newer versions as they become available (with download links)?
Thanks,
Ed, K0KC
|
I am still unable to get the nanoVNA to assign a port. I have Windows 10 and the nanoVNA will not automatically assign a port and the program suggested above does not assign a port. When I place the nanoVNA in DFU mode it does show "STM Device in DFU Mode". under Universal Serial bus Controllers. Otherwise it shows "Unknown device" if not in DFU mode. No port assignment is indicated at all. I might be having a problem with the nanoVNA equipment itself. When not connected to a PC, the device works fine. Maybe this problem can be solved, but if there is, in fact, a problem with the device, no solution would be forthcoming. Again, thanks for all of your help!! David . On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 1:31?PM Roger Need via groups.io <sailtamarack= [email protected]> wrote: On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 06:33 PM, David Reams wrote:
Can you give me some more information on the STM boot loader and a
source to
download?
David,
There are two different drivers required when using a NanoVNA-H or
NanoVNA-H4. One is required to get a COMxx: port so that your PC can
exchange data with a NanoVNA. The other driver is required when you want
to do firmware updates on your device.
COM port driver
---------------------
With Windows 10 and Windows 11 the required driver will be installed by
Windows when you connect your NanoVNA to a USB port. With Windows 7 and
Windows 8 you have to manually install the driver and then plug in your
NanoVNA. If Windows 10 fails to install the driver (rarely happens) you
can use the Windows 8 driver. You can check that the driver is working by
plugging in and turning on your NanoVNA and then going into Device Manager
and looking under ports to get the COM port number that has been assigned
If you power off the NanoVNA the COM port should disappear from Device
Manager. I have put a copy of the drivers on my BOX account for you to
download. Here is a link where you can download it >>
Unzip and select the 32 or 64 bit version for your computer.
Firmware Upgrade driver
---------------------------------
This driver is only required when you want to upgrade your firmware. It
does not assign a COM port when the NanoVNA is plugged in and in DFU mode.
DFU mode is activated in different ways depending on your device and the
firmware installed. Old devices had to be put in DFU mode by opening the
case and shorting the Boot0 and DFU pins. In other cases DFU was accessed
by a Menu selection. DFU mode on the -H4 is activated by depressing the
rocker switch down and powering on the anoVNA. When in DFU mode the screen
will be black. You can check that the driver is installed correctly by
looking under USB controllers and seeing if it shows that your device is in
DFU mode (see attached screenshot). I have posted a link to the DfuSe
package on my Box account for you. It will install the DFU driver and the
DfuSe firmware upgrade application.
The Absolute Beginners Guide in the file section of this group tells you
how to install the DFU drivers that are needed for firmware update and how
to install the latest firmware.
/g/nanovna-users/files/Absolute%20Beginner%20Guide%20to%20The%20NanoVNA/Absolute_Beginner_Guide_NanoVNA_v1_6.pdf
You don't have to register to get the DFU program and drivers. I have put
a copy on my Box account for you...
Roger
|
Hi to all, I am new to this group. Thanks.
I was using mi nanovna-h , hardware ver. 3.5 , with dislord 1.2 firmware.
All went fine till i had the bad idea of changing the firmware to Hugen
version 1.2.14 (file name: NanoVNA-H-SI_20220831.dfu from the web:
and the process via dfu
(Dfusedemo) got stuck on 6% for 1 hour.
Then I got a persistent white screen on nanovna.
A couple of days ago I upgraded the nanovna without any problem from the
original firmware to dislord 1.2, using the same computer and software.
:(
Is there a way to bring it to life?
Many thanks
LU1FP Ezequiel
|
Re: check "Dollar Tree" store. Now Dollar and a Quarter!
Same experience with their headphones. Great price if they¡¯d last more than a week.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 28, 2023, at 11:27 AM, Jim Allyn - N7JA <jim@...> wrote:
?On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 11:19 AM, Clyde Lambert wrote:
I purchased a couple of USB lead wires from Dollar Tree. They lasted about
three or four weeks, then the insulation started separateing from the back of
the connector housing. I've noticed that with some of the cables I have purchased from Dollar Tree also, but mine are two or three years old, maybe more. Some are plugged into and unplugged from the phone or other devices daily, sometimes more than once a day. Maybe I'll buy some expensive cables some day, maybe not. If you can recommend a brand that you think will provide better bang for the buck, I'd consider buying some.
|
Correction to last post. One of the Short plots was mislabelled. Corrected versions attached.
Roger
|
On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 07:01 AM, <btomek@...> wrote:
Could someone be so kind as to reproduce this measurement at his computer, on
his copy of the NanoVNA-App, with his NanoVNA and his cable of several meters?
If the result is good, it means that I am doing something wrong, and if it
comes out wrong, it means that there is a bug in the app.
YES there is something wrong with NanoVNA app calibration routine when using longer cables. I did some experiments with the original OneOfEleven, DiSlord and Duffy versions and all gave poor results when trying to de-embed at the end of a 3M RG-316 cable. I first calibrated right on my nanoVNA-H4 and then in NanoVNA app. Comparative sweeps were done selecting APP or VNA in the Calibration selection menu. Screenshots attached. My suspicion is that it is related to the length of the cable and the highest frequency selected for calibration. Hopefully DiSlord or Owen Duffy will take a look at the calibration routine and fix it in their "forks" of the One Of Eleven version. Roger
|
Re: check "Dollar Tree" store. Now Dollar and a Quarter!
On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 11:19 AM, Clyde Lambert wrote: I purchased a couple of USB lead wires from Dollar Tree. They lasted about
three or four weeks, then the insulation started separateing from the back of
the connector housing. I've noticed that with some of the cables I have purchased from Dollar Tree also, but mine are two or three years old, maybe more. Some are plugged into and unplugged from the phone or other devices daily, sometimes more than once a day. Maybe I'll buy some expensive cables some day, maybe not. If you can recommend a brand that you think will provide better bang for the buck, I'd consider buying some.
|
Re: nano vna small one is it the F
On Monday 27 February 2023 01:00:43 pm Roger Need via groups.io wrote: On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 09:17 AM, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
Which is why when I ordered my unit from R&L, I also ordered adapters to BNC
and UHF. What I forgot about was SMA M-F "connector savers" to spare the
installed connectors on the unit from much wear and tear, but I did pick a
couple of those up at a hamfest at a later date... :-)
If those adapters are rigid ones you have to be careful because PL259 cables can put a lot of strain on the SMA connector/PCB board. I prefer to use pigtail adapters made with RG-174 or RG-316.
I suggest you get some connector savers soon or you will wear them out quickly. Low cost from this USA vendor.
I do intend to use those adapters at the end of the short bits of coax that came with the unit, rather than stressing the connectors on the board. And, I *did* get some connector savers as mentioned in the last sentence of my post. I thought this was a good idea after reading about them in here... -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin
|
On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 06:33 PM, David Reams wrote:
Can you give me some more information on the STM boot loader and a source to
download?
David, There are two different drivers required when using a NanoVNA-H or NanoVNA-H4. One is required to get a COMxx: port so that your PC can exchange data with a NanoVNA. The other driver is required when you want to do firmware updates on your device. COM port driver --------------------- With Windows 10 and Windows 11 the required driver will be installed by Windows when you connect your NanoVNA to a USB port. With Windows 7 and Windows 8 you have to manually install the driver and then plug in your NanoVNA. If Windows 10 fails to install the driver (rarely happens) you can use the Windows 8 driver. You can check that the driver is working by plugging in and turning on your NanoVNA and then going into Device Manager and looking under ports to get the COM port number that has been assigned If you power off the NanoVNA the COM port should disappear from Device Manager. I have put a copy of the drivers on my BOX account for you to download. Here is a link where you can download it >> Unzip and select the 32 or 64 bit version for your computer. Firmware Upgrade driver --------------------------------- This driver is only required when you want to upgrade your firmware. It does not assign a COM port when the NanoVNA is plugged in and in DFU mode. DFU mode is activated in different ways depending on your device and the firmware installed. Old devices had to be put in DFU mode by opening the case and shorting the Boot0 and DFU pins. In other cases DFU was accessed by a Menu selection. DFU mode on the -H4 is activated by depressing the rocker switch down and powering on the anoVNA. When in DFU mode the screen will be black. You can check that the driver is installed correctly by looking under USB controllers and seeing if it shows that your device is in DFU mode (see attached screenshot). I have posted a link to the DfuSe package on my Box account for you. It will install the DFU driver and the DfuSe firmware upgrade application. The Absolute Beginners Guide in the file section of this group tells you how to install the DFU drivers that are needed for firmware update and how to install the latest firmware. /g/nanovna-users/files/Absolute%20Beginner%20Guide%20to%20The%20NanoVNA/Absolute_Beginner_Guide_NanoVNA_v1_6.pdfYou don't have to register to get the DFU program and drivers. I have put a copy on my Box account for you... Roger
|
Could someone be so kind as to reproduce this measurement at his computer, on his copy of the NanoVNA-App, with his NanoVNA and his cable of several meters?
If the result is good, it means that I am doing something wrong, and if it comes out wrong, it means that there is a bug in the app.
@John - You have an interesting idea, but in NanoVNA-App there is no possibility to set parameters for calibration standards. (Or I don't know where to set it). This is the default configuration of this program. I installed this program from scratch on another computer to check this and the error was the same. Perhaps the wrong calibration set parameters are set in the program inside somewhere, but they are not accessible from the GUI, or I can't find it. In Saver, these parameters are on top of the calibration screen. I did the test in Saver by setting them as ideal.
In NanoVNA-App Edelay=0 value, but you are right, if I set Edelay=-135ps then the graph is close to the dot in the right place. I think that guessing edelay is not the right way to go, especially since if I change the "number of points" then edelay comes out different. However, this dot is still large, and the problem of the last point at 900MHz is the same as before changing Edelay.
@Richard - I don't think it's the cable's fault. It is a normal SMA cable without any adapters. Not SMA-RP. But I will check it to be sure.
@Bob - I checked the other day what frequency my SI5351 works up to, and it working out to over 322MHz, so the treshold at 300MHz seems to have quite a margin.
Besides, this would not explain the fact that in the NanoVNA-Saver and directly on the device the results are correct. I only get errors in the NanoVNA-App.
|
Re: S-Band NanoVNA - SMA Connector Care
Hi Don,
Wow, what an insight that document is.
The comment on SMA connectors is very telling :
"These connectors do not work well in applications that require repeated connections; they wear out quickly. They work best as one-time only connectors, or in applications that require very few reconnections."
The moral: Get yourself a set of SMA M-F Connector Savers.
Also, DO NOT turn the connector, ONLY TURN THE NUT.
The specified torque for brass SMA connectors is 5 in-lb / 56N-cm.
Cheers...Bob VK2ZRE
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 28/02/2023 12:13 pm, Donald S Brant Jr wrote: Under-torquing an SMA (or any connector) will extend its life but compromise repeatability. For quick-and-dirty at HF finger-tight is fine, Above UHF one must be more careful and so on up into the microwave bands or for exacting measurements.
One contributor to long life is keeping the connectors clean. Fine-tipped foam swabs, alcohol and canned/compressed air work best.
Here is the Keysight "bible" on microwave connector care:
Best regards, Don
|
Just a Thought.
Perhaps it is the dreaded 5351 clock instability around 300MHz. The "900MHz" 3rd harmonic being my thought here.
Try setting the Threshold to 280MHz and Clear all the calibration data and redo your calibration.
HTH...Bob VK2ZRE
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 28/02/2023 7:41 am, John Gord via groups.io wrote: It looks like part of the problem may have to do with how you short the cable. Are you shorting it exactly the same in the calibration and for the plots you sent? (I assume the calibration is done with a male short and a barrel adapter. Is that how you generated the plots?} A barrel adapter could generate the arc you see on the plots.
If they are shorted the same way, how was the short defined to the calibration? If the Short is defined as non-ideal, application of the same Short will generate an arc instead of a dot when measured.
This does not explain the behavior at exactly 900 MHz.
--John Gord
On Sun, Feb 26, 2023 at 12:30 PM, <btomek@...> wrote:
Hello.
If I connect a cable to the NanoVNA and calibrate OSL at the end of that
cable, and measure the same cable, I should get 1 small point to the right of
the Smith chart when the cable is open, or 1 small point to the left when the
cable is shorted.
This happens if I calibrate in the NanoVNA device and use the internal
calibration.
But this does not happen when calibrating in the NanoVNA-App. After
calibrating with the 5-meter RG223 cable in the NanoVNA-App, something goes
wrong. Smith is rotating backwards.
In addition, the last measurement point is significantly different from the
previous ones, and this last point looks correct.
OPEN:
893250375 7,452017665e-01 6,873174310e-01
895500250 7,410393953e-01 6,873663068e-01
897750125 7,427099347e-01 6,907842755e-01
900000000 1,001433492e+00 3,330142936e-03
SHORT:
893250375 -7,893709540e-01 -6,558784842e-01
895500250 -7,710666060e-01 -6,550329924e-01
897750125 -7,579773664e-01 -6,538544297e-01
900000000 -1,000591993e+00 -2,029109281e-03
If I do the calibration without a cable, directly on the SMA socket of the
NanoVNA, the graphs do not show anything disturbing. Probably the error also
exists but is so small that it is invisible.
NanoVNA-App version 1.1.209 +OD12 from OwenDuffy,
NanoVNA-App version 1.1.213 released 2023-01-22 from DiSlord has the same
issue.
NanoVNA-H4 firmware 1.2.19 from DiSlord
Is this a bug or am I doing something wrong?
|
Chuck Carpenter
Roger Need
Jim Allyn - N7JA
