If you want to do full two port forward and reverse measurements the VNWA-3SE and LibreVNA supports this feature. The others do not. SDRKits has excellent support and the LibreVNA looks impressive.
Mike N2MS
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On 06/26/2021 1:17 PM John AE5X < ae5x@... > wrote:
Thanks for the comments, Jim - and for the potential offer. Yes, they nano
2 docs specifically mention that it cannot be used for measuring crystal
parameters. I had been looking at a LibreVNA - I like the upper freq limit
and other specs and would like to have shown it to my co-workers (radar
techs and engineers) but whoever moderates the io.group evidently didn't
see the relevance of a question regarding the ordering process and
documentation availability so the plan to purchase evaporated instantly.
I haven't ruled out an SDR-Kits VNA - but I do need to know what I'd be
gaining for the extra $$$. That is the purpose of the upcoming comparison,
all of which will be with passive devices.
I have an FA-VA5 from them and am well aware of the high quality of these
products, typical of what we've come to expect from German engineering
(which also applies to my .22 Beeman R9)!
Thanks again and 73,
--
John AE5X
The SDR-Kits software is more refined. Their calibration kits are of
higher mechanical and electrical quality.
I use it for things like sorting crystals for ladder crystal filters and
LF/HF tasks.
I find it more convenient than the HP 3577A (5 Hz - 200 MHz) in many
cases.
The HP 8702B (a 3 GHz 8753C with the word optical in the description and a
slightly different ROM set) compares favorably with the 0-3 GHz
specifications of the LibreVNA. The HP wins in the software capabilities
and interface.
I am currently using the LibreVNA from 2-6 GHz along with HP 8595E/8596E
and a DS Systems tracking generator. The LibreVNA
|
Thanks for the comments, Jim - and for the potential offer. Yes, they nano 2 docs specifically mention that it cannot be used for measuring crystal parameters. I had been looking at a LibreVNA - I like the upper freq limit and other specs and would like to have shown it to my co-workers (radar techs and engineers) but whoever moderates the io.group evidently didn't see the relevance of a question regarding the ordering process and documentation availability so the plan to purchase evaporated instantly.
I haven't ruled out an SDR-Kits VNA - but I do need to know what I'd be gaining for the extra $$$. That is the purpose of the upcoming comparison, all of which will be with passive devices.
I have an FA-VA5 from them and am well aware of the high quality of these products, typical of what we've come to expect from German engineering (which also applies to my .22 Beeman R9)!
Thanks again and 73,
--
John AE5X
The SDR-Kits software is more refined. Their calibration kits are of higher mechanical and electrical quality.
I use it for things like sorting crystals for ladder crystal filters and LF/HF tasks.
I find it more convenient than the HP 3577A (5 Hz - 200 MHz) in many cases.
The HP 8702B (a 3 GHz 8753C with the word optical in the description and a slightly different ROM set) compares favorably with the 0-3 GHz specifications of the LibreVNA. The HP wins in the software capabilities and interface.
I am currently using the LibreVNA from 2-6 GHz along with HP 8595E/8596E and a DS Systems tracking generator. The LibreVNA came with better quality cabling and calibration kit than the NanoVNA variants I have.
John, contact me if you are still looking for a SDR-Kits VNWA 3 to borrow.
Jimn8qoh
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Re: Firmware version 1.0.39
NanoVNA-H and NanoVNA-H4 firmware
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Re: Firmware version 1.0.39
Hello Art Parris!
You have not written what a unit You have. Is it NanoVNA- H4?
Pressing function wheel+ turn on = DFU mode with black screen. Now You can flsh new FW with program DfuSe.
Best regards
Vladimir, dl7pga
Last version og FW is 1.0.64.
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I upgraded the firmware to 1.0.39 and decided that for my use, I liked the version that was on it when I purchased it. When I hold down the function wheel and power on the screen remains black and nothing happens. Has anyone else had this problem and what was the solution to resolve it??
Thanks for your help.
Art Parris
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Re: VNA measures other than antenna SWR de k3eui
I may be wrong but those appear to be wirewound resistors. They will act
like inductors at RF. To prove this, create a dummy load with just those
resistors and measure with the vna and compare with a "load" terminator. I
would replace the resistors with non inductive ones.
I could be wrong and have been previously ?
Marco
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On Sat, Jun 26, 2021, 9:04 AM Jim Lux <jim@...> wrote: On 6/26/21 6:47 AM, Barry K3EUI wrote:
Latest Findings with my Nano VNA device
June 26
de k3eui Barry
Each week I learn more about what the Nano VNA can teach me.
We all quickly picked up that this device can measure SWR on an antenna.
But knowing an SWR (say 2:1) value does not tell you WHY the SWR is that value, nor how to improve it.
The Nano VNA tells me the IMPEDANCE (R and X) and shows PHASE (timing
errors) which is far better information than merely SWR.
I've tested all of my antennas in my back yard.
But I want to "adjust" the values and see what happens - how can I
improve these antennas?
So I set up a "test circuit" on my bench: a 50 ohm R, a 200 pf
Capacitor, a 10 uH coil (from an old MFJ antenna tuner).
I put these three components in SERIES.
You have a S21 plot, but isn't your circuit a single port? Or are you
putting R, L, C in series between center conductor of Ch0 and Ch1? (In
which case, Ch0 sees RLC + 50 ohms in series, and Ch1 sees the same)
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Re: VNA measures other than antenna SWR de k3eui
On 6/26/21 6:47 AM, Barry K3EUI wrote: Latest Findings with my Nano VNA device
June 26
de k3eui Barry
Each week I learn more about what the Nano VNA can teach me.
We all quickly picked up that this device can measure SWR on an antenna.
But knowing an SWR (say 2:1) value does not tell you WHY the SWR is that value, nor how to improve it.
The Nano VNA tells me the IMPEDANCE (R and X) and shows PHASE (timing errors) which is far better information than merely SWR.
I've tested all of my antennas in my back yard.
But I want to "adjust" the values and see what happens - how can I improve these antennas?
So I set up a "test circuit" on my bench: a 50 ohm R, a 200 pf Capacitor, a 10 uH coil (from an old MFJ antenna tuner).
I put these three components in SERIES. You have a S21 plot, but isn't your circuit a single port? Or are you putting R, L, C in series between center conductor of Ch0 and Ch1? (In which case, Ch0 sees RLC + 50 ohms in series, and Ch1 sees the same)
|
VNA measures other than antenna SWR de k3eui
Latest Findings with my Nano VNA device
June 26
de k3eui Barry
Each week I learn more about what the Nano VNA can teach me.
We all quickly picked up that this device can measure SWR on an antenna.
But knowing an SWR (say 2:1) value does not tell you WHY the SWR is that value, nor how to improve it.
The Nano VNA tells me the IMPEDANCE (R and X) and shows PHASE (timing errors) which is far better information than merely SWR.
I've tested all of my antennas in my back yard.
But I want to "adjust" the values and see what happens - how can I improve these antennas?
So I set up a "test circuit" on my bench: a 50 ohm R, a 200 pf Capacitor, a 10 uH coil (from an old MFJ antenna tuner).
I put these three components in SERIES.
So at resonance, which I set for 3.65 MHz, the impedance is minimum in a series circuit, so the current is maximum.
Let's see what the Nano VNA shows, as I adjust the L and the C for resonance in the middle of the 80m band.
I did a sweep from 3.0 to 5.0 MHz.
So note first the Smith Chart: I 'hit the Bull's Eye' at 3.65 MHz. YEA. That means SWR of 1:1 at that frequency.
Look at the SWR graph. Nothing surprising. Minimum SWR at the resonant frequency.
Look at the S11 (reflected voltage) Return Loss (I plotted it as a negative value, which makes engineers cringe) and it is deepest at 3.65 MHz. YEAH
The R and X values are just weird. I have to think about those graphs.
But note the REACTANCE (red) changes more quickly than the RESISTANCE (blue): why is that? More discussion.
The PHASE graphs are just too good to be true! At resonance, the PHASE angle is ZERO degrees. YEA. I get it.
The voltages (forward/reflected) are back "in-phase" only at the resonant frequency: X(L) = X(c)
So this circuit is set up to MIMIC a real antenna. I can adjust all three values (R,C,L) easily and play with the circuit.
I'll include a photo of the bench RLC circuit as well.
The Nano VNA is much more than an antenna "analyzer".
de k3eui Barry
|
Hi John,
This sounds like a really nice idea!
I do have a SDR-Kits VNA 3SE, but I won't offer to lend it to you since I am in Sweden.
However, I am interested in following the procedures and results in your shootout,
since I was planning to do something similar myself.
I have access to several of the HPs (8752A 8753D and other) at my work at KTH University.
These are donations and have seen much use, so a I am unsure of how well they work now.
They are not easy to use for students either. This is where a nanoVNA or VNA 3SE would come in handy.
I have also recently ordered a nanoVNA V2 to test along with my nanoVNA H model.
If you can publish calibration and test procedures on your blogspot,
several of us can cooperate to replicate different measurements.
The SDR-kits has only one manufacturer, but I am aware of the "Clone Wars" of the nanoVNAs.
I am not counting on the nanoVNA V2 I ordered to manage 3 or 4.4 GHz until I see it,
and if we have a common test method we can perhaps easier identify bad manufacturers or models,
and compare relevant specs.
Sincerely,
Carl-Mikael
Not a Ham, just a a university professor
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Re: Error Message nanoVNA-App
Hi Gyula,
I hadn't seen those references before ... a bit complex for me ... I have seen some of 'joeqsmith' stuff before.
My interest is in making sure that I am using this tool (ie nanoVNA) correctly and know its limitations. In my hobby work, I have found that understanding my test equipment is half the job ....
--
Cheers,
Ian
Melbourne, Australia
|
The SDR-Kits software is more refined.? Their calibration kits are of higher mechanical and electrical quality. I use it for things like sorting crystals for ladder crystal filters and LF/HF tasks. I find it more convenient than the HP 3577A (5 Hz - 200 MHz) in many cases. The HP 8702B (a 3 GHz 8753C with the word optical in the description and a slightly different ROM set) compares favorably with the 0-3 GHz specifications of the LibreVNA.? The HP wins in the software capabilities and interface. I am currently using the LibreVNA from 2-6 GHz along with HP 8595E/8596E and a DS Systems tracking generator.? The LibreVNA came with better quality cabling and calibration kit than the NanoVNA variants I have. John, contact me if you are still looking for a SDR-Kits VNWA 3 to borrow. Jimn8qoh On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 6:57 PM, John AE5X<ae5x@...> wrote: I'm as interested as anyone else who might have one to know the accuracy and reliability of these affordable VNA's, whether nano- or the one from SDR-Kits. I have a variety of VNA's available but am lacking the SDR-Kits model. Wouldn't it be nice if we knew where it stood compared to the newer nanoVNA's costing a fraction of the price for the same dynamic range and a higher upper frequency limit? Also, how do the hobby VNA's compare to lab-grade VNA's at HF and up to 1.2 GHz? If you own an SDR-Kits VNA, can do without it for 3 weeks and trust me to return it to you, please see my offer here: TNX/73, John AE5X --
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Re: FM5324B and FM5401 - NanoVNA-H4 Battery Charger and 5 Volt Converter Circuit
Thanks Larry and Richard for the help. It looks like my NanoVNA-H4 is operating normally although the battery LED only flashes when the voltage is very low.
The battery LED is Blue on my NanoVNA-H4 which is a brand new unit. The system LED is also Blue.
The Absolute Beginner's Guide may not be totally up to date. My smaller NanoVNA-H has a Red battery LED that is steady on while charging and it then goes out at full charge.
It was the different operation on the smaller NanoVNA-H that initially prompted the question.
Thanks, Kent
AA6P
|
I'm as interested as anyone else who might have one to know the accuracy and reliability of these affordable VNA's, whether nano- or the one from SDR-Kits.
I have a variety of VNA's available but am lacking the SDR-Kits model. Wouldn't it be nice if we knew where it stood compared to the newer nanoVNA's costing a fraction of the price for the same dynamic range and a higher upper frequency limit?
Also, how do the hobby VNA's compare to lab-grade VNA's at HF and up to 1.2 GHz?
If you own an SDR-Kits VNA, can do without it for 3 weeks and trust me to return it to you, please see my offer here:
TNX/73,
John AE5X
--
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Re: FM5324B and FM5401 - NanoVNA-H4 Battery Charger and 5 Volt Converter Circuit
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The battery LED on my NanoVNA-H4 stays on steady when the battery is fully charged, and flashes when the battery is still charging. I, too, expected the LED to out or change its color from red to blue or green when the battery is charged, but upon reading "The Absolute Beginners Guide to the NanoVNA", I discovered that the red LED just stays on steady.--Rich WB2GXMSent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android device------ Original message------From: Kent AA6PDate: Fri, Jun 25, 2021 5:03 PMTo: [email protected];Cc: Subject:[nanovna-users] FM5324B and FM5401 - NanoVNA-H4 Battery Charger and 5 Volt Converter CircuitMy NanoVNA-H4 has a FM5324B for the battery charger and 5 volt boost converter circuit. The schematic shows a FM5401. Does anyone know the difference? The datasheet is not written in English. I'm trying to explain why the charging LED on my NanoVNA-H4 does not turn off at the end of charge. The battery does appear to be charging properly. The LED flashes at very low voltages and is steady on at all other times. In looking at the datasheets, it looks like pins 2-4 can be configured for several different LED configurations. Both datasheets include a state diagram and the FM5324B appears to have one additional state. Thanks, Kent AA6P
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Re: FM5324B and FM5401 - NanoVNA-H4 Battery Charger and 5 Volt Converter Circuit
Kent,
I haven't opened my 1 year old H4 lately but the led flashes when charging and is on steady once there is a full charge. Pulling the usb cable extinguishes the light.?
... Larry
On Fri., 25 Jun. 2021 at 5:00 p.m., Kent AA6P<kawill70@...> wrote: My NanoVNA-H4 has a FM5324B for the battery charger and 5 volt boost converter circuit. The schematic shows a FM5401. Does anyone know the difference?
The datasheet is not written in English. I'm trying to explain why the charging LED on my NanoVNA-H4 does not turn off at the end of charge. The battery does appear to be charging properly. The LED flashes at very low voltages and is steady on at all other times.
In looking at the datasheets, it looks like pins 2-4 can be configured for several different LED configurations. Both datasheets include a state diagram and the FM5324B appears to have one additional state.
Thanks, Kent
AA6P
|
FM5324B and FM5401 - NanoVNA-H4 Battery Charger and 5 Volt Converter Circuit
My NanoVNA-H4 has a FM5324B for the battery charger and 5 volt boost converter circuit. The schematic shows a FM5401. Does anyone know the difference?
The datasheet is not written in English. I'm trying to explain why the charging LED on my NanoVNA-H4 does not turn off at the end of charge. The battery does appear to be charging properly. The LED flashes at very low voltages and is steady on at all other times.
In looking at the datasheets, it looks like pins 2-4 can be configured for several different LED configurations. Both datasheets include a state diagram and the FM5324B appears to have one additional state.
Thanks, Kent
AA6P
|
Re: Off topic, but still RF
Thanks to all.? I will go start layout something in Kicad based on QUCS or Ansoft.
Thank,
Jimn8qoh
On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 2:29 PM, Dave WB6DHW<dave@...> wrote: Zack:
? KICAD is free and will output Gerber files.
Dave - WB6DHW
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On 6/24/2021 8:28 AM, Zack Widup wrote: Well, he asked for Gerber files. I have not found an inexpensive program
that will produce Gerber files yet. ExpressPCB used to have a free program
that would convert your ExpressPCB design to a Gerber file but they removed
the program from their website and I never downloaded it. They WILL produce
a Gerber file for you IF you have them make some boards first.
Zack
On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 10:25 AM Gyula Molnar <gyula.ha3hz@...> wrote:
Indeed, you cannot draw a pcb layout with Ansoft Designer, but the
required dimensions can be calculated in the designer.
The program itself can be downloaded (DesignerSV050610, version 2010) from
the link on the previous page.
The tutorial page provides a link to download the tutorial in a similar
way.
73, Gyula HA3HZ
--
*** If you are not part of the solution, then you are the problem. (
) ***
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Re: Nano-F - Did I make a Mistake?
Thanks to all, especially DaveD, Clyde and W0LEV. I have joined the "-F" group but will reply here for continuity. I am still learning but the F group has given me some specific insights (serial numbers, versions, etc.). My F was purchased, as an exchange of a 4" model, from a dealer on Amazon. I understand that I may (probably?) get a clone of Deepelec "real" versions. I'll have to wait and see. I do have the option of returning it if I want or need to so that's good. There are just sooo many variables in buying these things that a newbie gets easily swamped. I'll see what mine can do and if it performs for my basic needs It will be fine. Thanks to all. See you on the F group (somehow that just doesn't sound right LOL). Thanks.
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Re: Error Message nanoVNA-App
Hi Ian,
Use the terminal mark to attach an image. (Add Attachments)
You can find several topics about crystal and filter measurements on the eevblog.
For example:
Or
95% or more of this is written by a user named joeqsmith.
There is also an ¡®ampc is an automated measurement tool of crystal parameters using a vector network analyzer.¡¯ Under Phyton
If this was known, please ignore it.
73, Gyula HA3HZ
--
*** If you are not part of the solution, then you are the problem. ( ) ***
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Re: Nano-F - Did I make a Mistake?
I have the same nanovna F from Deepelec that for sure is a great instrument for my mobile HF operations. So, if I've well understood, with latest firmware upgrade the sweep steps increase from 101 to 301? I do hope so? Inviato dal mio telefono Huawei -------- Messaggio originale -------- Da: BryonB <rf.excitation@...> Data: ven 25 giu 2021, 06:40 A: [email protected]Oggetto: Re: [nanovna-users] Nano-F - Did I make a Mistake?
I have the Deepelec NanoVNA-F, hardware v3.1 (with discreet buttons
instead
of rocker switch).
I've been impressed by it so far. I like the shielded metal casing and
extra large battery. I haven't tried any of the PC software with it yet,
but after calibration the results with my antennas look about as expected.
The latest firmware releases added some new features, such as 301 discreet
measurement points per sweep.
I believe the software is based on the original NanoVNA code, but the
NanoVNA-F firmware code has not been released publically, so there's no
real way to say how much it has diverged. That's my only real
disappointment with it so far.
I do like the look of the new H models with N-connectors though. I'm not a
fan of fragile SMA connectors and myriad tiny adapters.
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Vladimir Lebedev
Barry K3EUI
Carl-Mikael Zetterling
Gyula Molnar
