Re: H4 communication Issue
A basic question for you:? have you tried a second USB cable with the H4? There have been instances of companies shipping cheap cables that fail quickly.? You might also want to open the H4 housing and using a magnifying glass, make sure there are no solder shorts around the usb connector.? On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 at 11:06 AM, p01lindsey@...<p01lindsey@...> wrote: Hello, I have a new H4 unit that I just got a couple of weeks back.? ? Works great until I go to us it with a PC. What I am seeing is on win7 the laptop that I am using never sees anything when I plug in the usb connector.? Power on, power off, plug into the usb port on or off none of that makes a difference.? I never sees it. So then taking it to two different win10 computers if I go into device manager when it is plugged in they both see it but with an error.? The message is Unknown USB Device (Device Description Request Failed). Different computers, different operating systems, power on/power off, etc. Same result. The basic question I have is this a hardware or a driver issue? Thank you in advance! Phil
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Re: H4 communication Issue
With Win7 you need to manually install the driver. See the Wiki in this group for details..
Roger
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Re: My NanoVNA is overheating
The overheating issue on my NanoVNA-H appeared early in April after I installed beta firmware titled "NanoVNA-H v0.8.3_96kHzIF_3.2kHz_sweep_points". Looking back I wonder if that firmware was a factor in sensitization of the chip.
Gary AG7TH
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Re: My NanoVNA is overheating
@ Igor-m....
I used your settings and by setting the threshold up and down many many times I found my max threshold setting @ 305150000 and can leave it there for hours, it never gets unstable.
The firmware is by Dislord V 0.9.3,4 beta.
I'm measuring a 10dB attenuator on my H4, measures 9.78 dB, not one mB change.
When I feel the box, it's hardly warm.
Jos
Op 17-7-2020 om 15:58 schreef igor-m:
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My tests with threshold:
In the latest H4 source the threshold is set 300.000.100 Hz.
I set 201p, 1kHz BW, start=900M, stop=1000M
I started to increase the threshold till the display shows mess.
ch> threshold 322000000 << immediately started to mess
I returned back and with threshold 321.000.000 it runs stable for 20minutes already.. Hmm..
Frankly, I doubt the crashes I see here with the latest fw (and with 0846, 0847) are caused by the overheating of the SI5153..
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Re: My NanoVNA is overheating
Thanks for all the suggestions. I ordered an H4 and will experiment with an aluminum heat sink that bridges from the si5351 to the AIC 3204.
The si5351 was never hot to the touch, so it does not take much warming to set it off.
Gary AG7TH
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On 7/17/20 00:40, igor-m wrote: I wonder what my options are, besides buying a new H4.
1) use a frozen watermelon
2) drill vent-holes into the case
3) glue a small heat-sink on the top of the SI5351 chip
4) relax the SI5351's overclocking (lower its frequency)
5) increase the SI5351's Vdd voltage, ie. by 0.1-0.2V
6) replace the SI5351
..
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Hello,
I have a new H4 unit that I just got a couple of weeks back. Works great
until I go to us it with a PC.
What I am seeing is on win7 the laptop that I am using never sees anything
when I plug in the usb connector. Power on, power off, plug into the usb
port on or off none of that makes a difference. I never sees it.
So then taking it to two different win10 computers if I go into device
manager when it is plugged in they both see it but with an error. The
message is Unknown USB Device (Device Description Request Failed).
Different computers, different operating systems, power on/power off, etc.
Same result.
The basic question I have is this a hardware or a driver issue?
Thank you in advance!
Phil
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Re: My NanoVNA is overheating
My tests with threshold:
In the latest H4 source the threshold is set 300.000.100 Hz.
I set 201p, 1kHz BW, start=900M, stop=1000M
I started to increase the threshold till the display shows mess.
ch> threshold 322000000 << immediately started to mess
I returned back and with threshold 321.000.000 it runs stable for 20minutes already.. Hmm..
Frankly, I doubt the crashes I see here with the latest fw (and with 0846, 0847) are caused by the overheating of the SI5153..
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Re: My NanoVNA is overheating
On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 05:33 AM, igor-m wrote:
Q / A: §¬§Ñ§Ü§Ñ§ñ §Þ§à§Ø§Ö§ä §Ò§í§ä§î §â§Ñ§Ù§ß§Ú§è§Ñ §Þ§Ö§Ø§Õ§å v 0.8.4.5fw
(§Ü§à§ä§à§â§í§Û §â§Ñ§Ò§à§ä§Ñ§Ö§ä §ã§ä§Ñ§Ò§Ú§Ý§î§ß§à §Ù§Õ§Ö§ã§î) §Ú
§á§à§ã§Ý§Ö§Õ§ß§Ú§Þ ???
In nanovna.h i begin use AUDIO_CLOCK_REF (86016000U) Try revert to #define AUDIO_CLOCK_REF ( 8000000U) // 5ms @ 96kHz // Define aic3204 source clock frequency (for 8MHz used fractional multiplier, and possible little phase error) #define AUDIO_CLOCK_REF ( 8000000U) //#define AUDIO_CLOCK_REF (10752000U) // Disable AIC PLL clock, use input as CODEC_CLKIN //#define AUDIO_CLOCK_REF (86016000U)
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Re: My NanoVNA is overheating
On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 12:29 AM, igor-m wrote:
As I indicated in one of my posts, my new H4 crashes with
0.8.4.7fw every 10-15mins
0.8.4.6fw every 10-15mins
0.8.4.5fw does not crash.
all at around 25degC ambient. I haven't mess with the threshold. You may try a
different firmware..
I built the latest H4 fw version (pulled from Dislord's github 1.5h back) with sdcard and 32kHz xtal. Soldered xtal and socket in, flashed the fw in (shows old fw version on the LCD). Set time (do not use leading 0), set vbat offset, re-calibrated my 4 ranges. Did a measurement and saved s-data and LCD-shot - it works !! :) Bad news - it crashed after about 5 minutes (the usb cable disconnected, voltage 4.17V). It shows messy data, but the system works. Q/A: What could be the difference between v 0.8.4.5fw (which works stable here), and the latest???
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Re: VBAT resistor voltage divider, polynomial fitting, VBAT sampling
It's important to note that this thread has 3 periods of comments that are somewhat out of sync.
1. My original comments that were ... well, whatever.
2. My recent reply to clarify that I did not accept the summary dismissal of the material without intelligent review of the material.
3. The possibly up-to-date comments addressing changes that were possibly made to the device and software in the interim.
There have been several threads and private comments regarding the lack of engineering, the lack of supporting documentation, the lack of adequate user training and operational guides, and the difficulty getting in touch w the developers. I did offer early on to write docs,
because I have experience in that area, and I have and want to use the device. My request was to be able to work with a developer to have access to adequate info. The replies were to the effect that I should just start using the device and that way I would learn what I needed to write the docs. The irony was apparently lost on the developers. I decided not to waste my time, because I have other projects on the table. I just finished a project with a manufacturer of ham-related products, and they were very good...though understandably not wordy...about keeping in touch as the project progressed.
I am still impressed with the whole idea of a NanoVNA, and the energy of the developers, and the energy of those who have stepped up to develop supporting software that has so increased the usefulness of the devices. However, the steady stream of questions here, many of them duplicates, and the reports of errors in released version of firmware and software, further convince me that the field is missing some important concepts about how to effectively develop products and software.
~R~
72/73 de Rich NE1EE
On the banks of the Piscataqua
--
72/73 de Rich NE1EE
On the banks of the Piscataqua
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Re: My NanoVNA is overheating
Did you try to change the threshold, e.g. the frequency at which the SI5351 switches to harmonics mode? All nanoVNA use the SI5351 way out of spec. Try threshold 250000000 first and calibrate till 750MHz and see if it remains stable. If stable step by step (10MHz) increase the threshold till the SI5351 overheats again. -- NanoVNA Wiki: /g/nanovna-users/wiki/homeNanoVNA Files: /g/nanovna-users/filesErik, PD0EK
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Re: My NanoVNA is overheating
I wonder what my options are, besides buying a new H4.
1) use a frozen watermelon 2) drill vent-holes into the case 3) glue a small heat-sink on the top of the SI5351 chip 4) relax the SI5351's overclocking (lower its frequency) 5) increase the SI5351's Vdd voltage, ie. by 0.1-0.2V 6) replace the SI5351 ..
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Re: Protective Case for H4
I as well would like info on buying one
On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 6:20 PM, Darrell Carothers<rescuemedic1@...> wrote: That is correct.
Darrell
Sent from my over-rated IPhone 7 Plus.? Any Mis-spellings or grammar errors are due to my IPhone auto correct feature.
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On Jul 16, 2020, at 15:52, David Webb <kb1pvh@...> wrote:
?Looks to be this
Dave-KB1PVH
Sent from my Galaxy S9
On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 4:46 PM Rick Commo <rick.commo@...> wrote:
What¡¯s the thingiverse number?
Thanks,
-rick, K7LOG
On Jul 16, 2020, at 06:23, Darrell Carothers <rescuemedic1@...>
wrote:
Just FYI, I designed a protective case for the H4. It is a bit oversized
to allow additional SMA connectors to be left on to prevent abuse to the
connectors attached directly to the circuit board.
The files are on Thingiverse. I 3D printed mine in PLA but any material
should work. There is a bit of room between the connectors at the top to
allow a small piece of rubber to be placed if you desire a tighter fit.
Look for NanoVNA H4 case or under my designs using Medic433.
Hope you find it useful.
Darrell Carothers
Sent from my over-rated IPhone 7 Plus.? Any Mis-spellings or grammar
errors are due to my IPhone auto correct feature.
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Re: My NanoVNA is overheating
The results are in, it is the si5351.
On the first attached sweep the chip was not cooled, the other sweeps were made while holding a frozen cotton swab against the chip for increasing amounts of time.
I started out using a frozen blueberry, but that only worked for so long, eventually the blueberry juice ran down onto the traces and NanaoVNA-Saver crashed. So I ate the rest of the frozen blueberries.
I wonder what my options are, besides buying a new H4.
Gary AG7TH
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Re: My NanoVNA is overheating
DiSlord took the thermal pictures, and I am guessing it is his NanoVNA-H4, which I am also guessing does not have a problem.
I have a NanoVNA-H, not a NanoVNA-H4, and mine has a problem. I do not have a thermal camera.
When my unit is cool, it is stable. Without some kind of external cooling it quickly warms up and becomes unstable.
I am guessing that it is the SI3531. If it was the cpu it would probably crash, it has never crashed with any firmware.
I am going to cool off something and press it against each chip while the device is running and see what happens, which chip is overheating.
I will report back.
Gary AG7TH
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On 7/16/20 17:37, John Nicholas wrote: The ?T is 18¡ãC; 13¡ãC; and 15¡ãC. Some of the cold spots are actually on the circuit board. The two closest to the IC packages may be holes for mounting. I would not consider the holes significant. The large square cold spot on the right of all three is probably not significant either. The high temperature ranging from the Human Body Temperature +9¡ãC or +13¡ãF is a different issue.
My imager is due back tomorrow from it¡¯s annual Calibration Trip to the Factory. I will take a couple pictures of mine for control. See what a more normal temperature may be.
Are those images from the front or back of the unit. If they are through the LCD display, I would not trust the accuracy.
John Nicholas
Certified Thermographer Level II
On Jul 16, 2020, at 6:19 PM, Gary Hale <gary@...> wrote:
to
Hot pictures! Looks like all three chips are candidates for a heat sink.
I installed the old 0.8.4.5 firmware, then I put the NanoVNA in the freezer for a few minutes to see if I could make it through a calibration, looks okay so far after calibrating. Need to wait until the device warms up again to see if it stays stable.
After a few minutes I am now seeing the same thing, instability and noise all over. So it may be something that the firmware cannot fix.
Gary AG7TH
On 7/16/20 15:52, DiSlord wrote:
Made thermal photo NanoVNA
Heat si5351 (1.jpg) generator and LD01 DCDC (3.jpg)
CPU (2.jpg)
<IMG_20200716_160730.jpg><IMG_20200716_160849.jpg><IMG_20200716_161122.jpg>
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Re: VBAT resistor voltage divider, polynomial fitting, VBAT sampling
On 2020-07-16 16:19:-0700, you wrote: Resistors won't have that instability.
In this wiring the diode does not represent a source of "instability", imho, except its -2mV/K TC.
This may be why the VBAT is now enabled all the time...that would mean no diode startup time. That would mean a steady state current of maybe 30 to 36 uA over the battery discharge cycle. I wonder if this is correct. It seems to be, because the VBAT voltage divider is a constant 100K ohms. The question is what the voltage drop across the 1N4148WS (if that is what is used) is at 40 uA. The smaller the voltage drop across the diode, the larger the drop across the 100K network. Somewhere there is a balance. I have not seen the design specification for this part of the board, so I don't know what the designers calculated for the circuit. I still opine that I am not interested in more than a rough estimate of the battery charge state. I am more interested in the number of CPU cycles and the amount of memory used by a routine that takes 25 averages of the voltage. I actually don't know if that is correct, either. I was told that months ago, but have not seen a requirements doc or design doc that explains it, and I have not taken the time to troll the code trying to find out. I understand that the code is under more or less constant revision in each of the branches, with little in the way of specification, review, or V&V. -- 72/73 de Rich NE1EE On the banks of the Piscataqua
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Re: My NanoVNA is overheating
The ?T is 18¡ãC; 13¡ãC; and 15¡ãC. Some of the cold spots are actually on the circuit board. The two closest to the IC packages may be holes for mounting. I would not consider the holes significant. The large square cold spot on the right of all three is probably not significant either. The high temperature ranging from the Human Body Temperature +9¡ãC or +13¡ãF is a different issue.
My imager is due back tomorrow from it¡¯s annual Calibration Trip to the Factory. I will take a couple pictures of mine for control. See what a more normal temperature may be.
Are those images from the front or back of the unit. If they are through the LCD display, I would not trust the accuracy.
John Nicholas
Certified Thermographer Level II
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On Jul 16, 2020, at 6:19 PM, Gary Hale <gary@...> wrote:
to
Hot pictures! Looks like all three chips are candidates for a heat sink.
I installed the old 0.8.4.5 firmware, then I put the NanoVNA in the freezer for a few minutes to see if I could make it through a calibration, looks okay so far after calibrating. Need to wait until the device warms up again to see if it stays stable.
After a few minutes I am now seeing the same thing, instability and noise all over. So it may be something that the firmware cannot fix.
Gary AG7TH
On 7/16/20 15:52, DiSlord wrote:
Made thermal photo NanoVNA
Heat si5351 (1.jpg) generator and LD01 DCDC (3.jpg)
CPU (2.jpg)
<IMG_20200716_160730.jpg><IMG_20200716_160849.jpg><IMG_20200716_161122.jpg>
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Re: My NanoVNA is overheating
44degC at the packages is not too much, unless you do beefy overclocking :)
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Re: VBAT resistor voltage divider, polynomial fitting, VBAT sampling
Resistors won't have that instability.
In this wiring the diode does not represent a source of "instability", imho, except its -2mV/K TC. The current via the diode is in, say, 35-40uA region (with 100k divider) and that is almost constant Vf drop (even I would guess the internal on-chip /2 divider is made of something like 10k resistors - you may measure the real Vbat pin current easily). The only source of "dynamics" in this circuit (except the voltage drops on various parasitic impedancies) could be the ADC itself, which may sink/source some current off the divider (to charge/discharge its internal S/H capacitor). Therefore most ADCs do like rather low impedance sources to make the transient smaller (and S/H faster). I would rather doublecheck the code around the Vbat measurement, as the 150mVpp jumps in the vbat readings seem to me rather high to be real..
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Re: My NanoVNA is overheating
Hot pictures! Looks like all three chips are candidates for a heat sink.
I installed the old 0.8.4.5 firmware, then I put the NanoVNA in the freezer for a few minutes to see if I could make it through a calibration, looks okay so far after calibrating. Need to wait until the device warms up again to see if it stays stable.
After a few minutes I am now seeing the same thing, instability and noise all over. So it may be something that the firmware cannot fix.
Gary AG7TH
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On 7/16/20 15:52, DiSlord wrote: Made thermal photo NanoVNA
Heat si5351 (1.jpg) generator and LD01 DCDC (3.jpg)
CPU (2.jpg)
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Roger Need
Rich NE1EE
John Nicholas
