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There are two flash parts, one 96k and one 32k
Assuming the 32k flash holds the data store (did not analyze yet), the 96kByte flash has maybe 1kByte left. (code + initialized data is in total 97440 Bytes)
But I am not very familiar with the memory layout

Using a not too good BNC Tee I performed a T-Check
Attached the measurement (.s2p) and the excel file (.xlsx) in which the T-Check is calculated.
Next to the T-Check calculation the excel also calculates the abs(Zin-Zout)/Z0 (the percentage absolute distance of the two impedances as another estimate of error)
The frequency is denoted in MHz
Do ignore anything above say 500MHz

The T-Check suggests the error quickly increases to substantial levels but the abs(Zin-Zout)/Z0 suggests there is a very systematic error in my measurement where the absolute distance of the two rotating impedances grows very linear with frequency.

I did calibrate using the Tee without (OSL) and with (T) the outgoing cable connected but maybe that did result into the error.

What am I doing wrong?

On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 09:26 AM, <erik@...> wrote:

Indeed, larger fonts need more memory. Prefer to spend memory on more useful
features.

Erik,
Thanks for confirming memory capacity is a factor in the font sizes. My progressive bifocals work fine with the smaller fonts, but I imagine it's just a matter of time before someone releases a new firmware "flavor" with two traces & 1500 MHz extended range.

With the newest firmware versions, can you give us any sense of how close we are the memory capacity "ceiling"?
Thanks,
Bruce

Thanks Alan! See, I didn't even figure out it was an S21 measurement :D

--
Rune / 5Q5R

Hi Rune,

The group delay (GD) is obtained from the transmission phase, S21. The negated value of phase shift calculated as the small change in phase shift occurring with a small change in frequency. The difference in phase with difference in frequency (the aperture) taken small enough to arrive at an accurate value for GD.

The site below is a good reference and provides a useful calculator so you can test your routine:



Regards,

Alan

Thanks for the suggestion, Bryan. It sounds interesting. Do you know if/how
group delay is determined from S-parameters?

I'm not really an RF engineer, so I have had to figure out all these things
from the ground up ;-)

(Also, no more busy than I can easily answer emails. :-)
--
Rune / 5Q5R

On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 16:17, bryburns via Groups.Io <bryburns=
[email protected]> wrote:

peter_pc2a

I am running nanovna-saver.v0.0.11 on Win 7 - 64 bit and it is working
great. The software is very useful and seems to be quite stable.

Rune: I know you are quite busy. Here is a suggestion: I would like to
see group delay added to the measurements. Thanks, again, for all of your
great work.

--
Bryan, WA5VAH

peter_pc2a

I am running nanovna-saver.v0.0.11 on Win 7 - 64 bit and it is working great. The software is very useful and seems to be quite stable.

Rune: I know you are quite busy. Here is a suggestion: I would like to see group delay added to the measurements. Thanks, again, for all of your great work.

--
Bryan, WA5VAH

Using Thunderbird, and perhaps other email clients, you should see the poster's full email address on the "From" line at the top of the email header. For instance, when I look at your email (to which I am replying here), I see k4tql@....

One can right-click on the email address and copy it.

DaveD

Hi Bruce,
I'm not certain quite how it works via groups.io, but I did attempt to put
my email (mihtjel@...) in the body of the email I sent earlier, in
order that Peter (and others) could contact me directly, should they need
to.

I should probably set up an official email address for nanovna-saver at
some point, given the number of users it's starting to accrue, but for now,
gmail is doing fine at sorting them for me. ;-)

--
Rune

A bit off topic, perhaps, but tell me, how do I expand an email address like mihtjel@... ?
I keep seeing all the time but it doesn't work with my email client (Thunderbird).

Bruce, K4TQL

Indeed, larger fonts need more memory. Prefer to spend memory on more useful features. Suggest to buy small reading glasses. I did.....
Hugen does not have the large font size version on github (I can not find it) and I'm using the edy555 version as a starting point

Erik,
Is there enough firmware space on the uP for one more firmware on-screen option to display either 2 larger or 4 smaller traces?
I think that would be a nice option to have.
I know Hugen's firmware for the 2 trace version was quite a bit larger in size though.

Thanks,
Larry

I like the new 1500 MHz firmware - but I do miss the larger font size of the original 2 trace "antenna analyzer" version my nanoVNA shipped with. Wondering if there is some inherent reason why the larger font can't be used with 4 trace firmware, other than the screen getting too crowded with text.

@yza

As I am not scientifically trained I have great difficulty to follow your posts and to understand what it is you ask.
- Are you merely sharing knowledge on error models applicable to VNA? Great, need some help on how we can use your knowledge to understand the limitations of our own measurements
- Do you invite only those with a solid scientific background to participate in an performance evaluation of the nanoVNA? Excellent, let the experts join and deliver a solid foundation to understand the limitations of nanoVNA performance
- Do you want the wider group to participate? If so, in what way? How to contribute?

Please help me to understand.

Rune,

Wanted to add my thanks for all the work you have done with the software, and I really appreciate the features added to the latest version.

I've never been able to do a calibration within the software, no doubt I am doing something wrong with the key sequence. Calibration works fine with the touch screen, so not really an issue...but I do wonder if someone has ever written a calibration "tutorial" about how it is done in the NanoVNA Saver software.

73,
Bruce

Hi David
I have noted your comment.
As far as I know many are using Linux as platform. Look in the Yahoo Forum for details and probably also in the help file which exist as pdf.
Regarding licensing I know people are invited to used the VNWA and the embedded VNWA Virtual Demo Device where you can run the software just like if you had a connected VNWA hardware. This to facilitate a potential customer to a VNWA can try it out prior a decision to purchase. The only detail is that you do not enter a license code but just carry on with the installation, so I find it hard you are right on "only licensed for use with the VNWA".
It supports also the N2PK VNA so that is another indication it is not linked to the use of the VNWA.
There might be some remark in the licensing screen during installation with a precise definition about this issue (it is a long time since I read it).
Why focus on the negative sides be positive please ?
Kind regards
Kurt

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af Dr. David Kirkby from Kirkby Microwave Ltd
Sendt: 25. september 2019 01:19
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [nanovna-users] on the comparisons

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 at 10:22, Kurt Poulsen <kurt@...> wrote:

Hi David

I got permission from R&S to publish their T-Check software
and


But that was in 2012 and now you just in the VNWA software in a custom
trace right click the Expression field and the T-Check formula is
filled in. Enable a trace with linear magnitude (s parameter linear)
and with 0.01 per division (1%) and reference 1 followed by a press on
the F2 key and the VNWA performs a full 12Term measurement of T-Check.
Of course the VNWA shall in advance be SOLT calibrated and the
T-Adaptor fitted.
If a s2p file imported with full s11/s22/s21/s12 measurement The VNWA
software is totally unique (and free to use) and I have several times
"banged you on the head" to overcome you HP bias and fixation and get
on board your wonderful VNWA hardware/Software sitting collecting dust
on the shelf.
? ? ?

Kind regards

Kurt

Kurt,
There are a few issues here

1) VNWA software is closed source.
2) VNWA software only runs on Windows
3) Although the VNWA software is free, the last time I looked it was only licensed for use with the VNWA. I know Tom has never pressed this, and in fact once Tom made a change that allowed me to read in S-parameters from my LCR meter, although the VNWA software doesn’t fully support the Touchstone file format. I would add the same is true of an Agilent PNA-X
????. Sonnet Lite was a free, but closed source application which has better support for Touchstone files.

As an advocate of open source software, and as someone who has a dislike for Windows, I would rather an open source solution I can run on a Unix or Linux system.

Dave

--

Dr. David Kirkby,
Kirkby Microwave Ltd,
drkirkby@...

Telephone 01621-680100./ +44 1621 680100

Registered in England & Wales, company number 08914892.
Registered office:
Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, Chelmsford, Essex, CM3 6DT, United Kingdom

Hi Erik
Ok, thank you. I have updated the Excell
Kind regards
Kurt

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af erik@...
Sendt: 25. september 2019 10:24
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [nanovna-users] on the comparisons

Kurt,

Made some small changes

Input tab: Paste your rectangular input file of max 1001 points directly into this tab. Check if the values are correctly spread over the columns like is shown now. If they are all in the first column use data->columns with space as delimiter to spread over the columns Calculation tab: This is where the complex values and the t-check formula are calculated . The graph will show the outcome

Hello,

Allow us, please, to insist staying on the subject by transferring
and repeating here the contents of the following messages,
in order to somehow protect -if not save- them [*]

- - - - -

4 : on the comparison - /g/nanovna-users/message/2913
Hello,

Allow us, please, to point out that to be possible to the slightest a comparison
between measurements regarding nanovna and/or vna, these measurements
should be accompanied by an estimation of their uncertainty, as well as by a
clearly stated way of its calculation.

Sincerely,

yin@pez@arg

- - - - -

5 : Re: on the comparison - /g/nanovna-users/message/2943
Hello,

We both thank you very much all of you for your most valuable comments !
We gladly feel that we find a sound ground for a fruitful discussion, as we hope.

Well, we don't mean to offend you but, in our humble opinion, the whole story of
hp "error" models is just a myth serving the powerful advertisement, so, we don't
believe at all that this matter is due to any lack of knowledge or of ability among
Radio Amateurs, while, in direct contrast to that, the pioneered Work of whom is
usually exploited by patentees.

Anyway, we just ask you now to be patient enough and give us the chance to present
you:

(1) the fortran code by which we estimate the errors of the aforementioned "errors",
in full one-port vna measurements (see, please, the related "discussion" [1]), as well as

(2) sometime later, the way in which we calculate the errors of the corresponding
"errors" in full two-port vna measurements.

Finally, we just mention that in the case of nanovna we just took a look at the mathematical expressions included there and we have a feeling -but notice, please, NOT a proof yet-
that the "error" model(s) used in the original nanovna code are missing some terms which
are present in the original "error" model(s). And this is the reason that we already asked:

"if is there any certain knowledge available regarding the specific error model(s) that
NanoVNA uses" [2]

--but unfortunately without any response yet--so, we did not be able to comment our
vna-nanovna comparison results [3],

and by the way: after we followed, almost fully, the suggestions given in the Excellent
Work of Larry Rothman [4].

Sincerely,

yin&pez@arg

[1] errors of "error" models
/g/nanovna-users/message/2770
Saturday, September 21, 2019 04:10

[2] error model(s)
/g/nanovna-users/message/2553
Wednesday, September 18, 2019 00:24

[3] vna ~ nanovna : (r,x) comparative results but no comments
/g/nanovna-users/message/2521
Tuesday, September 17, 2019 02:31

[4] Re: List of NanoVNA Console Commands
/g/nanovna-users/message/2457
Sunday, September 15, 2019 15:23

- - - - -

6 : Re: on the comparison - /g/nanovna-users/message/2968
Hello,

Allow us, please, to summarize briefly:

(0) The measurement uncertainty is error-bounds of the
measurement.

(1) If a measurement does not involve mathematical expressions
then someone can choose the statistical way he likes to
mathematically estimate|compute a subjective uncertainty .

(2) If a measurement involves known mathematical expressions
then either there is or there is not -up to now- a known, unique,
mathematical way, that is a way solely based on these
mathematical expressions alone, to estimate|compute an
objective uncertainty.

(3) A vna measurement involves known mathematical expressions
and after more than ten 10 years there are now five 5 known
mathematical ways to estimate|compute a unique objective
uncertainty, each one for each of the five 5 "error" models considered
(by intermediately estimate|compute the errors of these "errors"),
as well as new one(s), the sixth 6th (or more), shall be added
as soon as the "error" model(s) of the NanoVNA will be revealed.

(4) These "errors" of "error" models are just historical names of
parameters mathematically expressed in terms to what is widely
known today collectively as "S-parameters" and thus these are
not error bounds - they are not uncertainties of the measurement.

Sincerely,

yin&pez@arg

[ *
[ which -unfortunately enough, but not unexpectedly in almost any
[ suffering public discussion- were interfered elsewhere, as usually,
[ that is using the well-known technique of the coordinated barrage
[ of disorienting, non-answering, non-participating, non-discussing
[ cries - that is, once more : business, as usual

Sincerely,

yin&pez@arg

8

Kurt,

Made some small changes

Input tab: Paste your rectangular input file of max 1001 points directly into this tab. Check if the values are correctly spread over the columns like is shown now. If they are all in the first column use data->columns with space as delimiter to spread over the columns
Calculation tab: This is where the complex values and the t-check formula are calculated . The graph will show the outcome

Hi Peter,
I missed the SP1 service pack under win7 32bit and also needed Ms VC ++. Without them I couldn't start. Unfortunately for some reason I could only install SP1 with an integrated installer with a full system installation, but now everything works fine.
Good luck in debugging.

73&dx: Gyula