Re: DMR Etiquette

#202
Edited

Thanks Jed. My experience is similar to what you described. You need to 'kerchunk' via a quick key-up when you want to change a DMR talk group on a repeater or on a hot spot. This does not cause a transmission to be received by the people monitoring that talk group, but often you can verify the change by either viewing the Brandmeister activity pages, or some repeaters (like SkyHub) have a web dashboard you can access to see if you're registered with the repeater/talk group. The only problem with DMR is that you can only switch talk groups when the channel is idle, which, on a busy talk group, can be tricky and frustrating. On a hot spot you also have the luxury of switching talk groups via the web interface, which does not have that limitation. BTW you do tend to hear a lot of kerchunking on busy talk groups as people do an initial kerchunk to switch talk groups and then, because they're not sure that the talk group changed, they do a second kerchunk, which does result in an audio transmission across the group.?

While I'm on the topic, one point of etiquette that I like to share is to leave a few seconds between transmissions so that others on the talk group get a chance to switch. People that don't do that cause the issue around others not being able to switch off of the talk group as the channel never goes idle long enough for them to kerchunk.?

By the way, most DMR repeaters will automatically reset to their default talk group after a certain amount of time after being "steered" to an alternate talk group (30 minutes is popular).

A great resource for checking talk group activity is Brandmeister hoseline: which lets you monitor talkgroups using a web browser. In my experience it's a bit buggy, so your mileage may vary.?

73,

Mark
--
---------------------
Mark Ehr | K0EHR

President, 285 Tech Connect Radio Club
Littleton, Colorado

k0ehr@...
Check out my ham radio blog:

Re: DMR Etiquette

#201

Thank you, Jed, for your thoughtful and detailed response. It's very helpful to me as a new ham trying to figure out digital radio operation. I keyed into a wires-x room today with my callsign and when I unkeyed I heard someone in a QSO say, "I think we had a kerchunk there." I felt embarrassed, but you can't know if there's a conversation in progress until you key up. Maybe I was too sensitive.??

Show quoted text

On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 8:22?PM Jed Baer | KD0YMG via <KD0YMG=[email protected]> wrote:

On Mon, 13 May 2024 15:43:02 -0700
Bill Karsell | K1BP wrote:

> I'm still learning DMR.? When I switch to a DMR talk group on my HT via a
> local repeater, I have to kerchunk the repeater before I can hear any
> traffic.? I know that people in the TG can hear me announce my callsign,
> which seems rude if they're having a QSO.? Is it better to kerchunk
> without speaking?? That also seems rude.? What's appropriate?

That's a good question, Bill. I don't know, for sure, but we can examine it
a little.

Are you sure that others can hear your callsign? I'm sure they can, given
the right set of conditions.

I don't know the exact timing of when the timeslot gets connected to the
TG, but let's try a couple ideas.

The repeater connects immediately upon your key-up. You give your call, and
then release the key. If someone else is talking, then your voice signal
won't get through. At least I think it won't. I've never experienced a
double in DMR, and in fact, I've been effectively kept off a TG by others
keying up quickly and not leaving time for me to connect. I assume this
happens when people are using hotspots. It takes just a little time for the
radio to "handshake" with the repeater, so I'm at a disadvantage. My radio
won't make a connection to the repeater if there's active traffic on the
time slot. AFAIK, it's not possible to double in DMR.

As above, except the repeater connects the TG when you release the mic key.
In this case, your transmission of your call wouldn't go through at all.

The repeater actually requires a short kerchunck to switch the TG, so if you
key up, give your call and release, it doesn't connect, so nobody hears your
call. So in that case, you do the kerchunk, then key up to announce your
call. If another station is transmitting, you won't be able to do that. So
you wait until there's an idle period long enough for you to key up and
announce. I see nothing rude about that. It's no different than tuning to
an FM repeater frequency and waiting until it's clear to announce.

This is just based on my experience with it. I've noticed, for example that
back when I first started using DMR, I could quick-key the DRC machine
(simply talking on the already connected TG). However, that capability went
away, and the vagaries of DMR make it impossible for me to determine what
changed.

I understand your concern, given the FCC requirement to announce your call
when using a frequency. But the norm of kerchunking DMR machines seems to
be an accepted practice among hams. Given the DMR was developed as a
commercial radio system, where the rules are different, I suppose I can see
how they'd design it for the short kerchunk. You'd think the amateurs who
did the work of porting over to our service would consider this.

This would be a good question for K1VAN, if you can find him at a hamfest.
He's one of the people running the NoCoDMR system, and they often have a
table.

Bucky - W0SUN, might know the answer as well.

* There is a scenario where I think a double can happen in DMR, and that's
when using multi-protocol linked systems. There can be timing issues with
syncing everything up, and if the gateways don't handle it properly, a
double might be possible. Just speculation on my part.

--
Jed - KD0YMG - -
"... we have done as much with wireless telegraphy as is likely
to be done."; Sir William Preece, 1891

--
Bill Karsell
K1BP

Re: DMR Etiquette

Jed Baer | KD0YMG

#200

On Mon, 13 May 2024 15:43:02 -0700
Bill Karsell | K1BP wrote:

I'm still learning DMR. ?When I switch to a DMR talk group on my HT via a
local repeater, I have to kerchunk the repeater before I can hear any
traffic. ?I know that people in the TG can hear me announce my callsign,
which seems rude if they're having a QSO. ?Is it better to kerchunk
without speaking? ?That also seems rude. ?What's appropriate?That's a good question, Bill. I don't know, for sure, but we can examine it
a little.

Are you sure that others can hear your callsign? I'm sure they can, given
the right set of conditions.

I don't know the exact timing of when the timeslot gets connected to the
TG, but let's try a couple ideas.

The repeater connects immediately upon your key-up. You give your call, and
then release the key. If someone else is talking, then your voice signal
won't get through. At least I think it won't. I've never experienced a
double in DMR, and in fact, I've been effectively kept off a TG by others
keying up quickly and not leaving time for me to connect. I assume this
happens when people are using hotspots. It takes just a little time for the
radio to "handshake" with the repeater, so I'm at a disadvantage. My radio
won't make a connection to the repeater if there's active traffic on the
time slot. AFAIK, it's not possible to double in DMR.

As above, except the repeater connects the TG when you release the mic key.
In this case, your transmission of your call wouldn't go through at all.

The repeater actually requires a short kerchunck to switch the TG, so if you
key up, give your call and release, it doesn't connect, so nobody hears your
call. So in that case, you do the kerchunk, then key up to announce your
call. If another station is transmitting, you won't be able to do that. So
you wait until there's an idle period long enough for you to key up and
announce. I see nothing rude about that. It's no different than tuning to
an FM repeater frequency and waiting until it's clear to announce.

This is just based on my experience with it. I've noticed, for example that
back when I first started using DMR, I could quick-key the DRC machine
(simply talking on the already connected TG). However, that capability went
away, and the vagaries of DMR make it impossible for me to determine what
changed.

I understand your concern, given the FCC requirement to announce your call
when using a frequency. But the norm of kerchunking DMR machines seems to
be an accepted practice among hams. Given the DMR was developed as a
commercial radio system, where the rules are different, I suppose I can see
how they'd design it for the short kerchunk. You'd think the amateurs who
did the work of porting over to our service would consider this.

This would be a good question for K1VAN, if you can find him at a hamfest.
He's one of the people running the NoCoDMR system, and they often have a
table.

Bucky - W0SUN, might know the answer as well.

* There is a scenario where I think a double can happen in DMR, and that's
when using multi-protocol linked systems. There can be timing issues with
syncing everything up, and if the gateways don't handle it properly, a
double might be possible. Just speculation on my part.

-- 
Jed - KD0YMG -  - 
"... we have done as much with wireless telegraphy as is likely
to be done."; Sir William Preece, 1891

Local mobile installer?

#199

Thinking of adding a mobile radio to a new car and would like to hire a pro. ?Any recommendations?
--
Bill Karsell
K1BP

DMR Etiquette

#198

I'm still learning DMR. ?When I switch to a DMR talk group on my HT via a local repeater, I have to kerchunk the repeater before I can hear any traffic. ?I know that people in the TG can hear me announce my callsign, which seems rude if they're having a QSO. ?Is it better to kerchunk without speaking? ?That also seems rude. ?What's appropriate?
--
Bill Karsell
K1BP

Reminder- TechConnect Radio Club Meeting. May 4, 2024 at 10 AM

#197

开云体育

Hi Everyone.?

The next 285 TechConnect Radio Club meeting will be held on Saturday, May 4, 10AM, at the Bridge Church at Bear Creek, North of Hwy 285 & Kipling.? We have coffee & doughnuts at 9:30 so come early for the best seats.?

This months topic is: Pizza Party and Show and Tell - Please bring some cool stuff to show off!?

The meeting is in the 2nd floor conference room at the Church, near Hwy 285 and Kipling. The door code is 28582#. Someone should be monitoring 146.520 if anyone has trouble getting in. See the for complete directions to the church.? Please park on the West side and enter through the West-side door. Stairs will be on your right, and an elevator is available.?

73,?
Tony Montoya, K0mcw?
NA0TC Program Coordinator

Virus-free.

Re: Powerpole / Wago adapter

Jed Baer | KD0YMG

#196

Yeah, easy to make. I tossed a small box of those onto my last Amazon order. A little adhesive heat-shrink...

Surface tablet for $250

Jed Baer | KD0YMG

#195

Just passing this on. A Win11 tablet could be a nice portable device, if you want to run things such as Winlink over Vara.

https://www.parkerradio.org/community/ham-gear/microsoft-surface-pro-7-windows-tablet/#post-2214

3D Printing Update #3dprint

Jed Baer | KD0YMG

#194

If I can get past the phase here of printing things for my 3d printer, I might just get back to printing things for amateur radio. :)

Octoprint is working great, and the webcam is working without having to fiddle with any settings. Currently working on a permanent mount for the cam, figuring out positioning. Lighting needs a bit of work too. And, noise reduction is going to be a must, so I guess I'll be looking at a shroud that'll let me mount Noctua fans. The homebrew noise baffle, made with cardboard and various foam I have, hasn't helped at all.

Re: MFJ is going out of business!

#193

Whoa. That is shocking news. MFJ makes so many products that few or no other companies produce,
at good price points. I am also very surprised that he couldn’t have found a buyer for the company, or “parted out” MFJ into separate companies.?

I’ll bet they will see a surge in sales after the announcement as people rush to buy products that they’ve been on the fence on, before they’re not available any longer. Of course there will be others they won’t buy something they had planned to due to the questions about getting parts and service in the future.?

I suppose I’d better pick up that MFJ-212 I’ve been thinking about buying!

73,

Mark

--
---------------------
Mark Ehr | K0EHR

President, 285 Tech Connect Radio Club
Littleton, Colorado

k0ehr@...
Check out my ham radio blog:

Re: MFJ is going out of business!

#192

开云体育

Unbelievable! ?MFJ will really be missed! ?I would think someone would be interested in buying this company. Maybe DX Engineering? ?The individual parts or divisions might be worth more if sold separately.?

Show quoted text

On Apr 25, 2024, at 10:48?PM, Jed Baer | KD0YMG via groups.io <KD0YMG@...> wrote:

?Sure can't blame Martin for wanting to retire. I wonder about shutting it all down though. You'd think there'd be a buyer for the company, or at least some of the sister companies. Possibly, the prospects for continuing to be profitable as a US company are a bit tenuous? I would think there's still demand for antennas, tuners, and amplifiers.

Re: MFJ is going out of business!

Jed Baer | KD0YMG

#191

Sure can't blame Martin for wanting to retire. I wonder about shutting it all down though. You'd think there'd be a buyer for the company, or at least some of the sister companies. Possibly, the prospects for continuing to be profitable as a US company are a bit tenuous? I would think there's still demand for antennas, tuners, and amplifiers.

MFJ is going out of business!

#190

? ?A Heavy Sad Heart

? ? ? ?Dear Fellow Hams and Friends,

? ?????? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? April 25, 2024
Dear Fellow Hams and Friends,

? ?? It is with a sad heart as I write this letter.

? ?? As many of you have heard by now, MFJ is ceasing its on-site
production in Starkville, Mississippi on May 17, 2024.? This is also the
same for our sister companies’ Ameritron, Hygain, Cushcraft, Mirage and
Vectronics.

? ?? Times have changed since I started this business 52 years ago.? Our
product line grew and grew and prospered.? Covid changed everything in
businesses including ours.? It was the hardest hit that we have ever had
and we never fully recovered.

? ?? I turned 80 this year.? I had never really considered retirement
but life is so short and my time with my family is so precious.

? ?? I want to thank all of our employees who have helped build this
company with me over the years.? We have many employees who have made
MFJ their career for 10, 20, 30, 40 and more years.

? ?? We are going to continue to sell MFJ products past May 17, 2024.?
We have a lot of stock on hand. We will continue to offer repair service
work for out-of-warranty and in-warranty units for the foreseeable future.

? ?? Finally, a special thanks to all of our customers and our dealers
who have made MFJ a worldwide name and a profitable business for so many
years.? You all are so much appreciated.

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Sincerely Yours, 73s

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Martin F. Jue, K5FLU

From PRA: quite possibly the lightest field FT8 setup yet!

#189

Very cool tweet from our friends at Parker Radio Association, showing an ultra lightweight FT8 setup perfect for field activations. It includes the super small and light $95 transceiver (sold as a kit, FYI) and free Android-based?. It might be time to pick up a QMX and a cheap Android tablet! Note that the QMX also supports CW and other digital modes with 5 watt maximum output. And since it has a built-in SDR and USB sound card, it should work with just about any computing device other than an iPad, unless someone knows of an iOS FT8 client that works with USB.?

Original posting:?

73,

Mark
--
---------------------
Mark Ehr | K0EHR

President, 285 Tech Connect Radio Club
Littleton, Colorado

k0ehr@...
Check out my ham radio blog:

Ham Club Online

#188
Edited

Hi all,

In case you haven't heard through other channels, we've started using a new service, Ham Club Online, to help manage our club roster, calendar, notifications, etc.?

A few members have mentioned receiving email messages from HCO and they are either wary that they're spam, or they've received a membership renewal notification when they've already paid their dues.

First, these messages are legit, provided they come from hamclubonline.com. And if you've received a membership reminder in error, please disregard as we are currently in the process of updating the dues in the database. And if you've received an invitation to the site, I'd encourage you to register and participate. As we explore the platform further, we'll be enabling some cool features including an online swapmeet and potentially enabling online payments through PayPal. Stay tuned!

Also, if you receive a reminder about our Tuesday night net (which is at 7pm MT on the 145.145 repeater), you do not need to RSVP. For some reason HCO does not allow you to turn that feature off. We don't require RSVPs or even check-ins for the net, and any licensed ham operator is welcome to join.?

And if you have any questions or comments around HCO or anything else around the 285 TCRC club, feel free to reach out to me directly.

Thanks and 73,

Mark

--
---------------------
Mark Ehr | K0EHR

President, 285 Tech Connect Radio Club
Littleton, Colorado

k0ehr@...
Check out my ham radio blog:

Re: Powerpole / Wago adapter

#187

That's a very cool idea. As you said, Powerpoles are great until you need to make a connection and don't have your tool and connectors with you. I think I have a few of those Wagos (or similar to them) laying around; I'll make some of those for my field kit.?

--
---------------------
Mark Ehr | K0EHR

President, 285 Tech Connect Radio Club
Littleton, Colorado

k0ehr@...
Check out my ham radio blog:

Powerpole / Wago adapter

Jed Baer | KD0YMG

#186

Saw these on YouTube, took a screenshot. Nifty idea - provides a quick way to attach power poles in an ad-hoc situation, as long as you can strip the wires. Might be useful in a field situation, where you don't happen to have your full power pole kit with you. I'm tempted to make a couple. The Wago inline splices are $9.45 for a dozen.

A little heat-shrink and you've got it. I haven't looked a what KE5EZZ is charging for those - doesn't seem to have a web site up.

CORCOM EMI POWER LINE FILTER, available free to 285 TechConnect Club Members

#185

CORCOM EMI POWER LINE FILTER 20VV1, rated 120V/250V 20 AMP
I have four of these power line filters available for your project requiring or benefitting from a power line filter. They are free to 285 TechConnect club members.

The filters come from a lab project, "gently used".? Spade connectors on input and output side.

Call me at 303-570-6034 or drop a note here.

Peter, N1GUM

Re: [na0tc] Reminder- TechConnect Meeting. April 6, 2024 at 10 AM

#184

开云体育

Here is the Zoom link for those of you who can’t make it to the meeting.

Take care,

Tony Montoya. K0MCW

Show quoted text

On Mar 31, 2024, at 8:07 AM, 285 TechConnect Radio Club - Morrison, Colorado <na0tc@...> wrote:

?Hi Everyone.

The next 285 TechConnect Radio Club meeting will be held on Saturday,
March 2nd at 10AM, at the Bridge Church at Bear Creek, just North of Hwy 285
& Kipling. ?We have coffee & doughnuts at 9:30 so come early for the best
seats.

This months topic is:
? ?Winlink presentation with peer to peer demonstration live over Zoom.
? ?Jon Budoff (KF?ABR), Art ?Bullock (N?AIU)

The meeting is in the 2nd floor conference room at the Church, near ?Hwy 285
and Kipling. The door code is 28582#. Someone should be ?monitoring 146.520
if anyone has trouble getting in. See the club website for complete
directions to the church:
http://na0tc.org/doku.php?id=meetings

Please park on the West side and enter through the West-side door.
Stairs will be on your right, and an elevator is available.

Take care,
Tony Montoya K0mcw
Program Coordinator

______________________________________________________________
285 TechConnect Radio Club mailing list
http://www.na0tc.org/

List home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/na0tc
List hosted by: http://www.qsl.net