Re: Quisk Version 4.2.24 November 2023
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Here is the installation, maybe some library version issue, all says good here.
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I can switch to 4.2.23 and it works OK then back to 4.2.24 and same run time error.
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I individually tried to upgrade each dependency, all were OK except for setuptools
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This had no effect on the problem.? I uninstalled and reinstalled quisk as well using pip.? Same results.?? Deleted 2nd radio definition I recently added, no change.
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I am trying to run debug in VS Code but I do not seem to have the breakpoints working right yet.? Still working on that.
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of
jimahlstrom
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2023 9:43 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [n2adr-sdr] Quisk Version 4.2.24 November 2023
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Hello Mike,
The line:
_quisk.error: Bytearray size must be 5.
is correct. Version 4.2.24 changed the size from 20 to 5. So your new _quisk.pyd is correct but you are somehow using the old Python files quisk.py etc.
How did you install on Windows?
Do any others see this error on Windows?
Jim
N2ADR
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Re: Quisk Version 4.2.24 November 2023
Hello Mike,
The line:
_quisk.error: Bytearray size must be 5.
is correct. Version 4.2.24 changed the size from 20 to 5. So your new _quisk.pyd is correct but you are somehow using the old Python files quisk.py etc.
How did you install on Windows?
Do any others see this error on Windows?
Jim
N2ADR
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Re: Quisk Version 4.2.24 November 2023
Hello Pierre,
This can happen if you have two versions of Python installed. If you run pip and pip is for Python version 3.10, then it will upgrade 3.10 and not 3.11. Try "pip -V" to check the version. To run pip for a specific version of Python, use "py -3.11 -m pip install --upgrade quisk".
If you have only one Python installed, I will need to check further.
Jim
N2ADR
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Re: Protocol Suggestions for Sending Quisk Control and IQ Signals via UDP/TCP for a Simple QSD Transceiver
The protocol I'm familiar with is HPSDR protocol 1, used by a?number of SDRs. It's documented??and .?One advantage is that it's well-supported by SDR software packages, so you could concentrate on the transceiver side implementation.
Jim
N1ADJ
On 11/21/2023 4:21 PM, Rob Frohne (KL7NA) wrote:
> should I just roll my own protocol for the control and for the IQ
> data, or is there one that is already defined that I should use
> instead of adding to the problem of multiple SDR radio protocols
> already there.? Advice?
Hi Rob,
The RTL-2832 is really a one of a kind - a very low-cost IC designed as
a COFDM demodulator of digital TV that happens to have the ability to
send raw ADC samples which enable it to function as an SDR.?? Its USB
interface includes commands to control a silicon tuner IC? via an
internal I2C repeater.
Quisk and other SDR software uses the libraries created by Osmocom many
years ago: ??? These are
specific to the RTL-2832 and wouldn't do you any good I'm afraid.?? The
rest of the project you linked should be useful as a basis for the
digital mode transmit side, I'd think, but I'm not familiar with them.
73, Bob W9RAN
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Re: Protocol Suggestions for Sending Quisk Control and IQ Signals via UDP/TCP for a Simple QSD Transceiver
On 11/21/2023 4:21 PM, Rob Frohne (KL7NA) wrote: should I just roll my own protocol for the control and for the IQ data, or is there one that is already defined that I should use instead of adding to the problem of multiple SDR radio protocols already there.? Advice? Hi Rob, The RTL-2832 is really a one of a kind - a very low-cost IC designed as a COFDM demodulator of digital TV that happens to have the ability to send raw ADC samples which enable it to function as an SDR.?? Its USB interface includes commands to control a silicon tuner IC? via an internal I2C repeater. Quisk and other SDR software uses the libraries created by Osmocom many years ago: These are specific to the RTL-2832 and wouldn't do you any good I'm afraid.?? The rest of the project you linked should be useful as a basis for the digital mode transmit side, I'd think, but I'm not familiar with them. 73, Bob W9RAN
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Re: Protocol Suggestions for Sending Quisk Control and IQ Signals via UDP/TCP for a Simple QSD Transceiver
Maybe cheat avoiding the dev work and use a USB to Wifi extender.? Might depend on how remote you are talking about.
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Protocol Suggestions for Sending Quisk Control and IQ Signals via UDP/TCP for a Simple QSD Transceiver
Greetings Friends,
I am planning a little SDR using a quadrature sampling detector for receiving and a Si5351 for the LO and the transmitter (for sending digital signals).? In the past I have used a sound card for getting the IQ data to quisk.? This time I have decided to include
the ADC on the board? and send all the data over WIFI so I can install the radio in a remote location to the computer running quisk, WSJT-X, etc.? There is a similar design here called
that sends data over USB serial port, and uses an RTLSDR instead of the QSD one.? The question I am pondering and seeking advice on is should I just roll my own protocol for the control and for the IQ data, or is there one that is already
defined that I should use instead of adding to the problem of multiple SDR radio protocols already there.? Advice?
Tnx & 73,
Rob
KL7NA
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Re: Quisk Version 4.2.24 November 2023
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Hi Jim,
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I updated my Linux Mint, Pi, and Windows machines to 4.2.24.? Ran into a problem on Windows where it crashes on startup.? Works in 4.2.23.??? 4.2.24 runs OK in Linux/Pi.
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Here is my output below. On 4.2.23 the next good line afer Change LNA would be
Change tx_buffer_latency 10, PTT_hang_time 4.?
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Successfully installed quisk-4.2.24
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C:\Users\k7mdl>python -m quisk
broadcast_addrs ['192.168.2.241']
SetControlByte C0_index 0x1 byte_index 2 to 0x6B
SetControlByte C0_index 0x2 byte_index 2 to 0x6B
SetControlByte C0_index 0x3 byte_index 2 to 0x6B
SetControlByte C0_index 0x4 byte_index 2 to 0x6B
SetControlByte C0_index 0x5 byte_index 2 to 0x6B
SetControlByte C0_index 0x6 byte_index 2 to 0x6B
SetControlByte C0_index 0x7 byte_index 2 to 0x6B
SetControlByte C0_index 0x8 byte_index 2 to 0x6B
Change Tx LNA to 192
Change sample rate to 384000
Send discover
discover_request ('192.168.2.241', 1024)
recvfrom ('192.168.2.241', 1024) length 60 type <class 'bytes'>
data bytearray(b'\xef\xfe\x02\x00\x1c\xc0\xa2\x13\xdeI\x06`\x00\xc0\xa8\x02\xf1\x13\xde\x04E\x03\x00\xd8\xb0\x01\x00\x00\x04&\x00\x01\x00\x01\x00\x00\x80\xf5\n\xf4D\xc0\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00')
Capture from Hermes: Mac? 0:1c:c0:a2:13:de, Code version 73.3, Rx 4, ID 6
Change LNA to 78
Change LNA to 111
Traceback (most recent call last):
? File "C:\Users\k7mdl\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310\lib\site-packages\quisk\quisk.py", line 3931, in OnInit
??? self.OpenHardware()
? File "C:\Users\k7mdl\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310\lib\site-packages\quisk\quisk.py", line 4074, in OpenHardware
??? self.config_text = Hardware.open()
? File "C:\Users\k7mdl\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310\Scripts\hermeslite.py", line 266, in open
??? self.ImmediateChange(name)
? File "C:\Users\k7mdl\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310\Scripts\hermeslite.py", line 664, in ImmediateChange
??? self.WriteQueue(1)
? File "C:\Users\k7mdl\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310\Scripts\hermeslite.py", line 793, in WriteQueue
??? QS.pc_to_hermeslite_writequeue(self.pc2hermeslitewritequeue)
_quisk.error: Bytearray size must be 5.
OnInit returned false, exiting...
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Re: Quisk Version 4.2.24 November 2023
I have for the first time a problem with quisk upgrade: under Windows 11: I enter in a terminal "pip install --upgrade quisk", it seemed to work and when I open quisk I'm still in the former version v.4.2.23 instead of the new 4.2.24.
When I look at my files: c:/users/my_name/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python311/Scripts/quisk.exe this quisk.exe file is still dated 4th of October 2023, the day I upgraded previously.?
If I try again to upgrade in a terminal I see that it does nothing anymore, probably considering that it has been upgraded.
I should maybe uninstall quisk and make a fresh install?
73 - Pierre - FK8IH
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Re: HiQSDR Noise floor/sensitivity
Hello Jim,
Thanks for your feedback, clearly the noise floor I observe is 10 dB too high. I am off for the weekend, but will run tests on Monday using an analog power supply, in stead of the switch mode I use now. Fingers crossed that's the culprit!
73s,
Peter
Hello Peter,
My HiQSDR shows a noise floor in 3 KHz of -111 dB at 10 MHz. So it looks like you have extra noise.
But see??for a discussion of ADC noise figures. They are high, almost 30 dB. I have a preamp that I switch in for bands 20 meters and up. I have often wondered if direct sampling SDRs would be a good match for UHF transverters.
BTW, I use a switching regulator to go from 13 volts to 6, and then use linear regulators to power my HiQSDR. I also suspect the power supply.
Jim
N2ADR
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Quisk Version 4.2.24 November 2023
You can now specify the WSJT-X option "--rig-name" on the Configure WSJT-X window. It used to be fixed at "quisk". Please test.
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I worked around a bug in wxPython that caused some screens to be too small. I polished the code for the RQST and ACK bits in the Hermes-Lite2 protocol.
Jim
N2ADR
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Re: HiQSDR Noise floor/sensitivity
Hello Peter,
My HiQSDR shows a noise floor in 3 KHz of -111 dB at 10 MHz. So it looks like you have extra noise.
But see??for a discussion of ADC noise figures. They are high, almost 30 dB. I have a preamp that I switch in for bands 20 meters and up. I have often wondered if direct sampling SDRs would be a good match for UHF transverters.
BTW, I use a switching regulator to go from 13 volts to 6, and then use linear regulators to power my HiQSDR. I also suspect the power supply.
Jim
N2ADR
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Re: HiQSDR Noise floor/sensitivity
Hello Guenter,
Many thanks for your elaborate answer. It is clear that the signal indication seems fine, close to what you observed on the DL1CC and your home made board (well done BTW!). The noise floor on the other hand is much lower than what I observed. So it seems that there is indeed something wrong with my board. I do use the low noise regulators, etc, etc. so either the parallel decoupling capacitors are broken, or perhaps too much noise from the switch mode power supply?? I will try to replace the power supply first.
Tnx, es 73!
Peter Op 17 nov. 2023 17:21 schreef guenter wilfrid richter <dl7la@...>:
oops, Peter,
(the wrong finger here too fast)
results (continued from prior post) for indicated noise levels (S-Meter setting 1 sec)
3k Bandwidth on both sets, -80 dBm IN showing displayed outputs of -79 dBm on DB1CC's board, -84 dBm on mine
frequency / MHz ???????????? DB1CC????????? DL7LA
1??????????????????????????????????? -116???????????????? -104
4??????????????????????????????????? -111??????????????? -112
10????????????????????????????????? -110??????????????? -114
30????????????????????????????????? -104??????????????? -108
50????????????????????????????????? --98???????????????? -110
taking in account the different sensitivites -79 to -84 one can see that even our homebuilt solution performs astonishing well. It consist of a double silver-clad PCB, mainly ground areas on both sides, soldered VIAS into holes and power rails with hookup wire. No comparison to Helmut's board using four layers and low noise regulators. Maybe there is noise originating in the power chain (defunct regulator or else) or spurious oscillation somwhere. Additional ferrites might help.
The noise figures due to ADC processing were discussed in an early stage but this was on the now archived platform when this group was on yahoo. There is however a primer to the topic on Analog Device's web, look for an article 'adc-input-noise.html'.
From a HAM's view these figures are rather high indeed, but explainable.
Connecting my HP-348 noise (ENR 15 dB) source e.g. will not noticeably increase display level;? only the hissing noise will just change slightly.
I might add that my homebult solution needed quite a lot of ferrite beads glued to discrete locations on both sides of the PCB to damp out parasitic currents and other spurs.
As to the 10 dB positive setting: the attenuator will stay at 0 dB, this feature, when activated, pulls pin 5 on connector X1 of Helmut's board to H, allowing an external LNA to be switched into the signal path before the input.
Good luck...
Guenter DL7LA
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Re: HiQSDR Noise floor/sensitivity
oops, Peter,
(the wrong finger here too fast)
results (continued from prior post) for indicated noise levels (S-Meter setting 1 sec)
3k Bandwidth on both sets, -80 dBm IN showing displayed outputs of -79 dBm on DB1CC's board, -84 dBm on mine
frequency / MHz ???????????? DB1CC????????? DL7LA
1??????????????????????????????????? -116???????????????? -104
4??????????????????????????????????? -111??????????????? -112
10????????????????????????????????? -110??????????????? -114
30????????????????????????????????? -104??????????????? -108
50????????????????????????????????? --98???????????????? -110
taking in account the different sensitivites -79 to -84 one can see that even our homebuilt solution performs astonishing well. It consist of a double silver-clad PCB, mainly ground areas on both sides, soldered VIAS into holes and power rails with hookup wire. No comparison to Helmut's board using four layers and low noise regulators. Maybe there is noise originating in the power chain (defunct regulator or else) or spurious oscillation somwhere. Additional ferrites might help.
The noise figures due to ADC processing were discussed in an early stage but this was on the now archived platform when this group was on yahoo. There is however a primer to the topic on Analog Device's web, look for an article 'adc-input-noise.html'.
From a HAM's view these figures are rather high indeed, but explainable.
Connecting my HP-348 noise (ENR 15 dB) source e.g. will not noticeably increase display level;? only the hissing noise will just change slightly.
I might add that my homebult solution needed quite a lot of ferrite beads glued to discrete locations on both sides of the PCB to damp out parasitic currents and other spurs.
As to the 10 dB positive setting: the attenuator will stay at 0 dB, this feature, when activated, pulls pin 5 on connector X1 of Helmut's board to H, allowing an external LNA to be switched into the signal path before the input.
Good luck...
Guenter DL7LA
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Re: HiQSDR Noise floor/sensitivity
Hi, Peter,
yes, you may be encountering an issue with your board. I have two boards, one HiQSDR from Helmut/DB1CC and my own homebuilt (guess one of the two first in Germany; Detlef/DL7IY(now SK) and I started experimenting when Jim first publihed the article in QEX in about 2010? or so).
Results hereDB1CC-Board???????????
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HiQSDR Noise floor/sensitivity
Hi All,
I wonder if anyone can tell me what their HiQSDR noise floor is, when the input is not connected (or connected to a dummy load)? I have the impression that the noise floor of my HiQSDR board is rather high, hence I ran a few tests. I tuned Quisk to 10.7 MHz and provided a signal of -80 dBm, which showed as -77 dBm on the S-meter in a bandwidth of 3 kHz. Hence, the signal strength of the S-meter correlates well with the applied signal. The signal strength of the noise in a 3 kHz bandwidth showed a value of -101 dB(m). Ignoring the 3 dB difference, a noise floor of -101 dBm in 3 kHz equals a noise figure of approximately 38 dB! Given the hardware build up I would expect a noise figure somewhere between 20 and 30 dB, but I have not been able to find any specifications of the HiQSDR hardware which shows such specifications. So before I start debugging the HiQSDR board for anything faulty components, I wonder if anyone can provide reference noise levels (or noise figures)?
BTW, I checked also on 4 MHz, and the noise floor drops 1.5 dB in 3 kHz bandwidth (i.e.: 102.5 dBm).
I set the attenuator in Quisk to 0 dB, the positive Gain setting never worked.? ??
73s,
Peter, PA3BIY
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Re: Audio Resampling clicks
Thanks Mario
I can see you have done a very thorough job.
73 Jan
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Re: Audio Resampling clicks
Thanks Jan
It doesn't show up here as under/overruns in the status page - but I'm pretty sure that the resampling is needed to match the microphone incoming stream to the outbound IQ stream as that channel is usually the cheapest interface. Sometimes switching microphone interface devices changes the clicking behavior here - presumably because the two cards have slightly different data rates
I find the clicks far more noticeable in NBFM mode and I too got reports of clicking from local repeater users. At first I ignored them and tried to deal with them by keeping the microphone input high as I thought it was PL tone leakage, but later when I investigated more closely I could clearly see and hear them in the transmitted signal. I think people don't notice them as much in SSB due to normal atmospheric noises.
They are often bad on FT8, but I think that depends on vagaries of Pulse Audio (which I see has been completely removed by the Raspbian developers in Bookworm!), Again, however digital users have no way to report them back to me even if they could tell they came from my signal and not those of the rest of the pack. When they're present they're quite audible and measurable in a local receiver.
On CW, the sine wave is generated locally and is usually clean and in sync - however sometimes if another mode has been in use the clicks appear for a little while during the first key down until things get settled.
I guess ideally, the incoming streams would be adjusted rather than the outbound IQ since there's certainly an LPF early in input streams. I can see why it's not been done that way, however as there are a lot of inputs of different sorts that would need to be adjusted and kept track of. It might be very messy....
I still haven't got back to work on using my codec clock synthesizer to resync the output stream as I'm in the midst of chaos from new computers and a roof replacement going on all around me, but I'll try to get back to it next week. It won't really fix quisk, but might provide a useful data point for comparison and it would solve my immediate problem.
M
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Re: Audio Resampling clicks
First of all, many thanks to Jim and Ben for this amazing remote feature in Quisk.
I show my remote configuration on the attached drawing. my remote Red Pitaya SDR often runs via VHF 2M transverter on a local FM repeater and here I sometimes get reports of some clicks or short outages of the carrier wave of less than 1 second.
I count it as short breaks due to unavailability of data packages on the Internet. On the remote Quisk Config image I can see some errors on the Microphone Input.
I interpret this as some Microphone Input Underrun, but maybe that's not the case?
Jan
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Re: Audio Resampling clicks
Thanks Ben, for the reply!
I've pretty well eliminated my device as the cause and focussed on the resampling method, but I will spend a little more time figuring out how Quisk processes buffers. By measurements, experimentation with modifications to the source code and a little reasoning, it appears that periodic random jumps of up to 1/2 sample value (which the present method creates) are not a good thing. ?Doing this correction to wideband IQ samples just before they are sent to the hardware the way it does, precludes doing any low pass filtering - which would mitigate the spurious transients.
Unfortunately, the nasty side effects are not easy to detect with instruments because they are transient and randomized.
I'm pretty sure the best thing to do would be to minimize the resampling during actual transmitting. Right now the algorithm runs continually. It probably could be disabled during normal transmissions if the underlying clock error is not too great. This would usually hide the correction because hams usually do low duty cycle transmissions. A bigger "dead band" in the feedback loop might also help by having it run less often.
I've been too busy to try it, but I'm going to disable the correction code completely (not the measurement part - just the few lines that interpolate or drop the samples) and try running my high resolution variable codec clock to do the correction instead. I'm fairly certain this will do the resynchronizing without side effects, but it takes a little thought to design the PLL-like software loop that will do the adjustment smoothly. Unfortunately, this would only help hardware like mine and not other use cases.
If this works, I'll report back and request an easier way to allow user supplied correction methods to be used by disabling the interpolation/drop via a configuration switch so that it doesn't require recompilation. It would also be nice to have a clean way to access the buffer fill statistics for such methods to use. I'm envisioning something easy to add to the heartbeat method in the hardware object.?
My apologies to forcing everyone to follow my missteps and thinking out loud in public about this. I was kind of hoping it would bring more suggestions like yours out of the woodwork. The two clock problem is pervasive in communications and is never easy to fix!
M
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Rob Frohne (KL7NA)
Pierre - FK8IH