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hi
moving to countryside this year, about September, so not much time to set up rx antennas for 160-40m for the winter season, especially considering i will be also erecting a 20m vertical ( along with ground works, 60 odd radials etc) plus doing ?up the house to Wifes satisfaction!!( very important!!)
Dx tx will now become a big vertical ( inverted L, top hat loaded etc not decided untill have the place and can see best way to go,) ?against many radials, the big mag loop will be re used for inter Europe and UK.( assuming we not all dead due to ww3)
moving will come ?with a large garden ( maybe even farmers fields, but for now lets assume no fields for beverages.) but atleast 1/3 area of ?antenna land! ( compared to my 5 by 8 m plot now!)?
i have a few options..main goal is dx on 160rx..ie atleast hearing USA ?well from sw England. ( tx is easy even from ?here on the mag loop ssb) 160m.)?
k9ay or k9ay¡¯s ( if enough space for 2 crossed)
ewe or 2?
Phased crossed parallel loops ( have a Lz1aq remote delay line switching box)?
Phased cardioid loops ( have a Lz1aq remote switching delay line box)?
phased lankford verticals..?
having not tried any of the above in a quiet rf noise area I have no idea which will perform better for low angle elevation ?dx.
i know the cardioid loops work ( got ?some here in London, but a single one is not good enough for reliable long haul dx, maybe 2 phased are, same for crossed parallel loops)?
never tried k9ay or ewe as no space here.
time is an issue..will not have long to do this before winter sets in..
have already acquired the 20m ali vertical, made ground mounts etc, so now getting together the rx antenna ¡° stuff¡±?
anyone have a sensible input into what to try??
Thanks for reading g0zen?
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Simon, if you have the space:
8 circle array-DX engineering sells two different kits. very powerful lowband?RX antenna. 4 square array Dx engineering sells two different kits. couple of dB down on the 8 circle but still powerful. this is what I use. 500 foot or longer beverages-DX has several different models. 250 foot beverage on ground -dx engineering has kits.? K9ay loop- array solutions?used to sell but I think you have to homebrew now.?
I have ranked the antennas by RDF and complexity.
My K9AY has been the most rugged for me through many winters and deer seasons. The BOGs are the simplest. The arrays are the coolest but the most complicated. Hope this helps.
PS several other I have tried with good results and pretty simple: DHDL loops. pennants.? Dx engineering has low noise short phased verticals you can buy. if you feed two into a phase shift (lankford style or some other) you can get decent performance?in a couple of directions. put a third up and you can get 4 directions.
Mike
hi
moving to countryside this year, about September, so not much time to set up rx antennas for 160-40m for the winter season, especially considering i will be also erecting a 20m vertical ( along with ground works, 60 odd radials etc) plus doing ?up the house to Wifes satisfaction!!( very important!!)
Dx tx will now become a big vertical ( inverted L, top hat loaded etc not decided untill have the place and can see best way to go,) ?against many radials, the big mag loop will be re used for inter Europe and UK.( assuming we not all dead due to ww3)
moving will come ?with a large garden ( maybe even farmers fields, but for now lets assume no fields for beverages.) but atleast 1/3 area of ?antenna land! ( compared to my 5 by 8 m plot now!)?
i have a few options..main goal is dx on 160rx..ie atleast hearing USA ?well from sw England. ( tx is easy even from ?here on the mag loop ssb) 160m.)?
k9ay or k9ay¡¯s ( if enough space for 2 crossed)
ewe or 2?
Phased crossed parallel loops ( have a Lz1aq remote delay line switching box)?
Phased cardioid loops ( have a Lz1aq remote switching delay line box)?
phased lankford verticals..?
having not tried any of the above in a quiet rf noise area I have no idea which will perform better for low angle elevation ?dx.
i know the cardioid loops work ( got ?some here in London, but a single one is not good enough for reliable long haul dx, maybe 2 phased are, same for crossed parallel loops)?
never tried k9ay or ewe as no space here.
time is an issue..will not have long to do this before winter sets in..
have already acquired the 20m ali vertical, made ground mounts etc, so now getting together the rx antenna ¡° stuff¡±?
anyone have a sensible input into what to try??
Thanks for reading g0zen?
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Mike,
If you want a low cost RX antenna the Lankford Low Noise Vertical is better than an active vertical, of any kind. I have 2 of them 200¡¯ apart and a Lankford Phaser #2 and it is a great setup.
Here is a link to my version of the LNV. ?https://app.box.com/s/ntqpc8kyh5t71o4en9e7df6g0ah63cgo
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On Jan 26, 2022, at 6:56 AM, Mike Irizarry <michael.irizarry29@...> wrote:
? Simon, if you have the space:
8 circle array-DX engineering sells two different kits. very powerful lowband?RX antenna. 4 square array Dx engineering sells two different kits. couple of dB down on the 8 circle but still powerful. this is what I use. 500 foot or longer beverages-DX has several different models. 250 foot beverage on ground -dx engineering has kits.? K9ay loop- array solutions?used to sell but I think you have to homebrew now.?
I have ranked the antennas by RDF and complexity.
My K9AY has been the most rugged for me through many winters and deer seasons. The BOGs are the simplest. The arrays are the coolest but the most complicated. Hope this helps.
PS several other I have tried with good results and pretty simple: DHDL loops. pennants.? Dx engineering has low noise short phased verticals you can buy. if you feed two into a phase shift (lankford style or some other) you can get decent performance?in a couple of directions. put a third up and you can get 4 directions.
Mike
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Hi all
I won¡¯t be buying any antennas..
All will be homebrew .it¡¯s illegal for a ham to buy antennas lol! ( or amps)
If i have a suitable mount to raise a 4 direction k9ay that may be the way i go..but ¡.
or lankford verticals, Which would be easier to do! (3 of, but that will mean reworking the Lz1aq delay line/switching directions box ( its set for 100r as uses cat5e..but thinking about it, easy to make 50:100r transformer in lankford amps.)
Anyone have the polar pattern for phased lankford verticals? Ie any good at 30 or less degrees to horizontal ( long haul dx on 160-80m)
Has anyone fone a comparison between k9ay¡¯s and PHASED lankford verticals?
Everett, do you have any lankford amp pcb¡¯s? ( bare or populated) And willing to send to Uk?
I need to have them made made before move..
Simon
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As far easy antenna Beverage is a winner.
Even as short as 300' are useful.
Fred KB4QZH
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Hi Jeff
If you are going out in the snow to play aerials then all sins are squashed..lol
Yes beverages..300 foot will work on 160?
Even though the garden will be big, it won¡¯t be USA big! Just Uk big..( which in reality is not that big..hopefully 1/3-1/2 acre..)
The beverage will be an easy option to try if space allows..
Simon
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no it is not a felony:) you still have to build the ones from DX engineering. you just don't have to build the baluns and other things. I have shifted my interests (governed by the time available to me) to airtime rather than constructing the antennas literally from scratch. I'm not knocking?it. it is very rewarding. I dont have the time for it.?
Mike AB4KJ
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Is it a misdemeanor or serious felony to go with store bought antennas?
I lack the skill to construct Lankford Norton or DX Engineering RF amps, so I paid someone else to assemble them.
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I looked at building a UHF TV antenna but chickened out because we needed to be able to watch the local news and weather "RFN" so I bought a commercial antenna and did a temporary installation.
[old camera tripod on the patio with the coax routed under a window with pipe insulation to seal against the cold.]
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Is this a mere crime or is my soul in mortal danger?
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If the later, how do I repent?
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I do plan on erecting a ~130 foot random wire antenna when the weather moderates.
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Will that save me from the fires of perdition?
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Or, does driving 3 ground rods, mounting the fishing rods and amps, connecting the antennas to the amps and the coax to the amps and stringing out half frozen coax in 3 inches of snow when it's 12F (-11C) mitigate my "sins?"
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At my skill level I can either buy or do without. I hope to build my skill set(s) so I can actually construct at least simple projects.
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And I did change an AC outlet without electrocuting myself or setting the house afire. But I cheated, we opened the master breaker and my wife and daughter held flashlights (electric torches to Brits) while I did the change. I was so relieved when the little plug in AC outlet tester said "OK."
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I have a homebrew K9AY loop not in a ideal location. Located close to a creek.
Works great for certain stations.
Not always though but best to have many rx antennas. I also have 3 Beverages from 300' to 450' and one 580'.
They all work well for certain situations.
Fred KB4QZH
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(Separate) RX antenna from 160 to 40m in the countryside with much place outside?
A simple active E-field antenna = Mini Whip on a 10m mast will do.
My recommendation is the PA0NHC improved version:
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Hi Dirk
No that i have ever tried one, but not convinced.. I am looking for long haul dx rx antennas with switchable directions..
Beverages would be ideal, but I doubt will have the space..
lankford vertical array is the way i am heading..
Though putting up an e probe will be easy enough.( one can never have enough rx antennas! )
Simon
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On Sat, Jan 29, 2022 at 09:03 AM, Dirk wrote:
A simple active E-field antenna = Mini Whip on a 10m mast will do.
Not really, at least in my experience. It's an adequate antenna, but I've built and used several in a quiet rural location and they were all about 10 to 15dB worse in terms of Signal to Noise than my best antenna in use at at the time, which was a broadband vertical that outperformed just about everything. You reach a point where the only way to improve reception any further is to use some form of directional array, in order to reject unwanted noise off axis, and provide gain in the required direction, which is what Simon is looking for. Even broadband active loops can outperform E-Filed antennas in this respect. Try comparing them on my KiWi web sdr in a typical urban location. Antennas 3 & 4 are basically E-Probe antennas. Antennas 5,6 & 7 are 1m Broadband loops. Regards, Martin
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Simon, try a switchable DHDL. Much less space than a full wavelength beverage but has as good a RDF. I installed two switchable for four directions. less complicated than a four square. You can get the design of the Internet. I think the fellow who came up with the design is Wallner.
Hi Dirk
No that i have ever tried one, but not convinced.. I am looking for long haul dx rx antennas with switchable directions..
Beverages would be ideal, but I doubt will have the space..
lankford vertical array is the way i am heading..
Though putting up an e probe will be easy enough.( one can never have enough rx antennas! )
Simon
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Hi Mike
Interesting,not too big .. but can¡¯t find any construction details anywhere, lots of tests, but no dimensions, etc..
Any ideas where to find??
Simon
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Martin,
yes, you are right, a typical Mini Whip has about 15..18 dB less than a comparable dipol.
But that doesn't make it a bad antenna. If installed correctly like shown here:
... it is well suitable for RX DX and as a non-directional antenna it can be used as reference for additional directional antennas.
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Hi Jeff
Of notmuch use i am afraid..looking for proper construction details, sizes, matching transformer details, etc..
Once found will add to my collection and read all, and formulate a plan of action¡it looks very promising indeed, but so far lankford array is in the lead due to ease of deployment in time allowed vs performance vs possible space. But the lakford verticals ( would use fibreglass poles) could easy be converted into it if not happy with..
Simon
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On Sat, Jan 29, 2022 at 11:20 PM, Dirk wrote:
But that doesn't make it a bad antenna. If installed correctly like shown here:
The installation information given in the video is all valid, and is very much along the lines of a series of techniques I have used, in order to get the best possible performance from this type of antenna. I have used a Mini-Whip for LF band reception in the past, at our now defunct Farnham web sdr, and it did produce reasonable results. But in comparisons with other active antennas in a quiet rural location, it didn't perform quite as well as some other designs. The main problem is the excessively high value of input impedance, which is required because of the very small value of antenna 'plate' capacitance. If a larger antenna element is used, with a larger value of self capacitance, the amplifier input impedance can be a lot lower, allowing other design considerations to be relaxed, and the ability to 'choke' unwanted common mode noise and interference on the feed line can also be considerably improved. Some notes on my Active Antennas webpage here. Regards, Martin
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Martin,
I was on your homepage before, a very good overview.
I have three Mini Whip versions: PA0RDT, PA0NHC and PA3FWM.
I use them in an urban situation.
Testing them in the upper VLF band (20..30 kHz) with the same Bias-Tee and in the exact identical position, the PA3FWM version performs best (signal quality, SNR), directly followed by the PA0NHC.
But I think this is perhaps a bit off topic in this thread.
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Well found some construction details on the dhdl..( finally.)
Looks fairly easy to swap directions with a couple of relays..( and 2 resistors and matching transformers.)
Yes one i will consider..looks better than a short beverage ( 100m) which in all honesty probably will not be viable, let alone a full size one..atleast if keeping on one¡¯s property.
Simon
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Everett N4CY
Dirk