开云体育

Hi Pat

Thanks for the pic's.... BUT

It's built on perfboard !! ..that would have to be the most
unprofessional thing that I have ever seen in a commercial product.

And using perfboard is slow ,,if they had of used an etched board
assembly would be a LOT faster with less chance of construction failures.
This offsets the costs of a small etched board easily.

I thought Welbrook was much better than that ,,it really is backyard
standards of construction.

I think THAT is why they glue it all together , so you don't see their
work.

gregW:-)



=====================================================================

--- In loopantennas@..., Patrick Reynaert <preynaert@...>
wrote:

Hi Dominique,

I've placed some pictures of an opened ALA1530 on the photo section

of this group page. After two days carefull work, I finally got to the
circuit.

Pat.

Hi Dominique,

It wasn't even mine antenna; I got a broken ALA from a friend.

Pat.


"D.Kremp" <dominique.kremp@...> wrote: Hi Pat,

Hope you did'nt do that especially for us !

Tell us what happened to your antenna !

See you



Dominique



_____

De : loopantennas@... [mailto:loopantennas@...] De
la part de Patrick Reynaert
Envoyé : samedi 10 mars 2007 18:31
? : loopantennas@...
Objet : RE: [loopantennas] Re: Active loop antenna



Hi Dominique,

I've placed some pictures of an opened ALA1530 on the photo section of this
group page. After two days carefull work, I finally got to the circuit.

Pat.

"D.Kremp"
wanadoo.fr> wrote: Hi Greg,

I have an ALA1530, an ALA100 and an AVA100, all from Wellbrook.

Very fine antennas indeed.

Of course I have tried to open the units and see the circuits ! Very
disappointing : the units are filled up with a sort of hard black wax which
makes impossible to see neither the components nor the circuit. That makes
of course the construction very safe for outdoor use.

But I think it's also very safe for the industrial secret !

Don't you think it's the main aim of the constructor Andy IKIN to prevent
any chinese imitation ?

Have a nice week end

Dominique

from Normandy/France

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greg,

It's impossible to get those militray grade inks off
any other way! I guess now they are laser etched into
the part too.

Steve

--- "Greg W:-)" <onegammyleg@...> wrote:

Hi Steve

Sandpaper hey ,,,that would sure do it :-)

gregW:-)

=======================================================================

--- In loopantennas@..., Steve Baker
<mcqueen_34@...> wrote:

I have worked as an engineer for over 30 years. At

one

company I worked at we would actually use sand

paper

to take the nubers off of the important IC's in an
attempt to hide their identity. A 14 pin dip

package

can be anything when it has no identifying

numbers;

and the more umbers you remove from other IC's the
harder it is to reverse engineer.

Steve

____________________________________________________________________________________
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Carefull work??? It looks like a bomb went off in the middle of it!
<grin>

Rob

--- In loopantennas@..., Patrick Reynaert
<preynaert@...> wrote:

Hi Dominique,

I've placed some pictures of an opened ALA1530 on the photo

section of this group page. After two days carefull work, I finally
got to the circuit.

Pat.

"D.Kremp" <dominique.kremp@...> wrote: Hi Greg,

I have an ALA1530, an ALA100 and an AVA100, all from Wellbrook.

Very fine antennas indeed.

Of course I have tried to open the units and see the circuits !

Very

disappointing : the units are filled up with a sort of hard black

wax which

makes impossible to see neither the components nor the circuit.

That makes

of course the construction very safe for outdoor use.

But I think it's also very safe for the industrial secret !

Don't you think it's the main aim of the constructor Andy IKIN to

prevent

any chinese imitation ?

Have a nice week end

Dominique

from Normandy/France




---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Pat,

Hope you did'nt do that especially for us !

Tell us what happened to your antenna !

See you



Dominique



_____

De : loopantennas@... [mailto:loopantennas@...] De
la part de Patrick Reynaert
Envoyé : samedi 10 mars 2007 18:31
? : loopantennas@...
Objet : RE: [loopantennas] Re: Active loop antenna



Hi Dominique,

I've placed some pictures of an opened ALA1530 on the photo section of this
group page. After two days carefull work, I finally got to the circuit.

Pat.

"D.Kremp" <dominique.kremp@ <mailto:dominique.kremp%40wanadoo.fr>
wanadoo.fr> wrote: Hi Greg,

I have an ALA1530, an ALA100 and an AVA100, all from Wellbrook.

Very fine antennas indeed.

Of course I have tried to open the units and see the circuits ! Very
disappointing : the units are filled up with a sort of hard black wax which
makes impossible to see neither the components nor the circuit. That makes
of course the construction very safe for outdoor use.

But I think it's also very safe for the industrial secret !

Don't you think it's the main aim of the constructor Andy IKIN to prevent
any chinese imitation ?

Have a nice week end

Dominique

from Normandy/France

---------------------------------
Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Dominique,

I've placed some pictures of an opened ALA1530 on the photo section of this group page. After two days carefull work, I finally got to the circuit.

Pat.

"D.Kremp" <dominique.kremp@...> wrote: Hi Greg,

I have an ALA1530, an ALA100 and an AVA100, all from Wellbrook.

Very fine antennas indeed.

Of course I have tried to open the units and see the circuits ! Very
disappointing : the units are filled up with a sort of hard black wax which
makes impossible to see neither the components nor the circuit. That makes
of course the construction very safe for outdoor use.

But I think it's also very safe for the industrial secret !

Don't you think it's the main aim of the constructor Andy IKIN to prevent
any chinese imitation ?

Have a nice week end

Dominique

from Normandy/France




---------------------------------
Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Hi Steve

Sandpaper hey ,,,that would sure do it :-)

gregW:-)



=======================================================================

THAT would do it for sure

would be almost impossible to interrogate the device with infinite (nearly) possiblities and learn what it is unless a very good guess

thanks for clearing that up

for sure this would protect the secrets

best
Paul

I have worked as an engineer for over 30 years. At one
company I worked at we would actually use sand paper
to take the nubers off of the important IC's in an
attempt to hide their identity. A 14 pin dip package
can be anything when it has no identifying numbers;
and the more umbers you remove from other IC's the
harder it is to reverse engineer.

Steve


--- "Greg W:-)" <onegammyleg@...> wrote:

Hi Dominique

There is no doubt that filling a circuit with epoxy
or hard wax would
resist copy artists., but if the Chineese REALLY ,
REALLY wanted to
copy one , don't you think they would get one and
sacrifice it knowing
that it wont go back together.(thats what the
Russian's used to do all
the time)
Even if it cost a couple of hundred dollars the
knowledge gained from
copying would be worth it.

Not only does filling withe epoxy , wax or hot melt
glue resist water
damage but it also is good at stabilizing the
inductance of any coils
that might be in there.

Regards

gregW:-)

===================================================================

--- In loopantennas@..., "D.Kremp"
<dominique.kremp@...>
wrote:

Hi Greg,

I have an ALA1530, an ALA100 and an AVA100, all

from Wellbrook.

Very fine antennas indeed.

Of course I have tried to open the units and see

the circuits ! Very

disappointing : the units are filled up with a

sort of hard black
wax which

makes impossible to see neither the components nor

the circuit. That
makes

of course the construction very safe for outdoor

use.

But I think it's also very safe for the industrial

secret !

Don't you think it's the main aim of the

constructor Andy IKIN to
prevent

any chinese imitation ?

Have a nice week end

Dominique

from Normandy/France

____________________________________________________________________________________
Finding fabulous fares is fun.
Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.

MICROPROCESSOR??????

1. The Wellbrook is NOT a tuned loop.
2. How does the loop know what frquency the radio is
tuned to...ESP?


--- gandalfg8@... wrote:

In a message dated 10/03/2007 08:45:02 GMT Standard
Time,
c.beijersbergen@... writes:

And BTW, what should the microprocessor be doing in
there?



--------------------------------------

It's used for the automatic tuning.

In order to cover the wide bandwidth the antenna has
to be electronically
tuned to the correct operating frequency and this is
done by rapidly sweeping
the tuning across the whole band and monitoring for
the point at which energy
absorbed by the radio is greatest as this will
correspond to the tuned
frequency of the radio.

Fortunately, even a modest microprocessor can scan
much faster than a human
operator, or even the fastest scanner, so this
process can be repeated rapidly
and remain transparent to the operator.
When a predermined number of scans return the same
result the tuning remains
fixed but the energy absorbed continues to be
monitored.
If the absorbed energy returns to the pretuned
value, or decreases to a
significant extent, it is assumed the radio tuning
has changed and the whole
process repeats.
This all happens millions of time a second, so is
never obvious to the user,
and part of the design process has to establish the
proper times for tuning
period and dwell in order to ensure that no tuning
lag occured whilst
minimising the need for repeat cycles.

This great advance in antenna technology is the
subject of a number of
patent applications and the electronics are potted
in order to protect the
designer's intellectual property rights.



[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]

____________________________________________________________________________________
Finding fabulous fares is fun.
Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.

Hi Dominique

There is no doubt that filling a circuit with epoxy or hard wax would
resist copy artists., but if the Chineese REALLY , REALLY wanted to
copy one , don't you think they would get one and sacrifice it knowing
that it wont go back together.(thats what the Russian's used to do all
the time)
Even if it cost a couple of hundred dollars the knowledge gained from
copying would be worth it.

Not only does filling withe epoxy , wax or hot melt glue resist water
damage but it also is good at stabilizing the inductance of any coils
that might be in there.

Regards

gregW:-)

===================================================================

--- In loopantennas@..., "D.Kremp" <dominique.kremp@...>
wrote:

Hi Greg,

I have an ALA1530, an ALA100 and an AVA100, all from Wellbrook.

Very fine antennas indeed.

Of course I have tried to open the units and see the circuits ! Very
disappointing : the units are filled up with a sort of hard black

wax which

makes impossible to see neither the components nor the circuit. That

makes

of course the construction very safe for outdoor use.

But I think it's also very safe for the industrial secret !

Don't you think it's the main aim of the constructor Andy IKIN to

prevent

any chinese imitation ?

Have a nice week end

Dominique

from Normandy/France

Hi Greg,

I have an ALA1530, an ALA100 and an AVA100, all from Wellbrook.

Very fine antennas indeed.

Of course I have tried to open the units and see the circuits ! Very
disappointing : the units are filled up with a sort of hard black wax which
makes impossible to see neither the components nor the circuit. That makes
of course the construction very safe for outdoor use.

But I think it's also very safe for the industrial secret !

Don't you think it's the main aim of the constructor Andy IKIN to prevent
any chinese imitation ?

Have a nice week end

Dominique

from Normandy/France







_____

De : loopantennas@... [mailto:loopantennas@...] De
la part de Greg W:-)
Envoyé : samedi 10 mars 2007 10:38
? : loopantennas@...
Objet : [loopantennas] Re: Active loop antenna



¨what should the microprocessor be doing in there?¨

Exactly !.
I just looked at the welbrook site and I didn't see any mention of a
microprocessor in their latest antenna.
<>
k.uk.com/ALA1530Splus.html
Perhaps I'me wrong , but I don't think there is a processor in there
at all.

Perhaps a previous message writer saw (or heard of) a chip inside and
confused that with a processor , where as in reality , it might have
been a voltage regulator or a mosfet in an odd package.(who knows?)

As far as your question is concerned , I just cant image a use for a
microprocessor in an active RX antenna like that.

gregW:-)

. <> co.nr/
===================================================================

--- In loopantennas@ <mailto:loopantennas%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com, "C. Beijersbergen"
<c.beijersbergen@...> wrote:

And BTW, what should the microprocessor be doing in there?

Cor Beijersbergen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Aimo

It is easy to confuse such similar and cross meaning terms., especialy
when a microprocessor is still a ¨chip¨ and an¨IC¨.
In the simplest explanation a microprocessor is an IC running software
, , which is hard to see from the outside. :-)

I am working on a piece of test equipment now that has a
microprocessor in it and on the outside it looks just a normal IC ,
again a bit confusing and misleading if you didn't look at the part
number first.

gregW:-)



======================================================================

--- In loopantennas@..., aimo ruoho <aimounto@...> wrote:

SORRY, folks, for raising a debate on "MICROPROCESSOR".
My meaning was to write: "IC" ( Integrated Circuit ), but as it

often happens...

Anyway, it's interesting, that one (false) word can raise so much

interest among people.
SNIP

SORRY, folks, for raising a debate on "MICROPROCESSOR".
My meaning was to write: "IC" ( Integrated Circuit ), but as it often happens...
Anyway, it's interesting, that one (false) word can raise so much interest among people.
[How can I wipe out the rest from this page?]
Best Regards from Ami
aimo ruoho <aimounto@...> wrote:
Fine!
A WELLBROOK CLONE!
Please tell us more about it.
I have been trying hard to buy one, but nobody ever answered my many emails from England...............
So I have tried to build one of my own. I have many "prototypes" in my listening room and in the attic, but I am not yet satisfied with them. It's the electronics inside the small box, which is the most important part of the famous Wellbrook, if I understood right. Probably a careful electrician could easily open it up and find out, what is ticking in it.... Of course any transistor can be identified without any text available on it, but who could diagnose a microprocessor the same way?
Perhaps the Chinese will soon make a cheap and, hopefully better and freely available, clone? So let's be in touch with each other and eBay!

Aimo, the simple homebrewer of electronics.

jr_dakota <SG2112@...> wrote:
A FET might be alright, definitely the ticket on short whip with a
high impedance .... I'm not sure what the impedances look like on a
(relatively) short untuned loop, I tried to measure one with my AMQRP
Antenna Analyst but I have way too much metal (heat ducts, pipes, etc)
in my basement to get an accurate reading so I need to wait a few more
weeks for the weather to warm up so I can take it outside in the free
and clear and get some measurements

I will say this though, expect a Wellbrook clone from me by the end of
April using a push-pull pair of 2N5109s (or similar) and perhaps a
pair of FETS depending on the impedances or the need for more gain

JR

--- In loopantennas@..., "Keith Browning" <kbrowning@...>
wrote:

How about a plain old FET to lower the loading?
Keith
----- Original Message -----
From: "jr_dakota" <SG2112@...>
To: <loopantennas@...>
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:09 AM
Subject: [loopantennas] Re: Active loop antenna


You need strict 50 ohm input and output impedances for these MMICs to
work properly which is kind of hard to do with the first amplifier on
a broadband antenna ... On a tuned loop with a small pickup loop it
would probably be alright but a plain ol' RF transistor would work as
well or better

You also have to be real careful applying a 1 Ghz amplifier for use in
the HF range because they have a tendency to 'go off' (Oscillate) in
the VHF range where you can't hear (And most people can;t see on their
scope) the result in the receiver but other than it's not working
right (Little or no gain, front end blocking, etc)

Personally I don't like to use them other than in transmitting amps
for the HF range, when you start getting into 2 Meters and up though
they are hard to beat because you can get decent gain and IP3 without
tuned circuits where the difference between a 2 1/2 turn inductor and
a 3 turn inductor can be several Mhz
JR

--- In loopantennas@..., "exnci2000" <awfhgm@> wrote:

Hi,
On minicircuits.com catalog,there are some interesting mololithic Rf
amplifier ERA/MAR series offering good IP3.I would like to know if you
have some schematich diagram to homebrew an active broadband loop
antenna from 100 Khz to 30 Mhz !!
Best regards
Franco
Italy.-

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the Links rather than uploading

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---------------------------------
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Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

I don't believe it.

gW:-)

=======================================================================

¨what should the microprocessor be doing in there?¨

Exactly !.
I just looked at the welbrook site and I didn't see any mention of a
microprocessor in their latest antenna.

Perhaps I'me wrong , but I don't think there is a processor in there
at all.

Perhaps a previous message writer saw (or heard of) a chip inside and
confused that with a processor , where as in reality , it might have
been a voltage regulator or a mosfet in an odd package.(who knows?)

As far as your question is concerned , I just cant image a use for a
microprocessor in an active RX antenna like that.

gregW:-)



===================================================================

--- In loopantennas@..., "C. Beijersbergen"
<c.beijersbergen@...> wrote:

And BTW, what should the microprocessor be doing in there?

Cor Beijersbergen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

And BTW, what should the microprocessor be doing in there?

Cor Beijersbergen

Greg, if a processor is needed, the tuning cycle would be the only
time that the processor is require to operate after which, the
processor can by cycled back to a very low clock rate, or put into
sleep mode for quite reception.
Best regards,
Paul
WA5LFY

--- In loopantennas@..., Ronny Julian <k4rjj@...> wrote:

I'm wanting to make a RX loop to bring in WSB 750 from Atlanta. I

used

to live so close to the transmiter I could take my phone off the

hook

and hear them fine. Now i'm about 70 miles north and outside

antennas

are not possible for this..

I have some copper tubing and PVC as one article says to start

with. I

also picked up a handful of air tunable caps at the last hamfest.

At

750 khz whats the best size loop to start with, Anyone got a

better

mousetrap?

Thanks!
K4RJJ
Ronny

I must be missing something here. If your QTH is only 70 miles north
of Atlanta, you should be able to receive a powerhouse like WSB any
time of day or night like gangbusters with the internal ferrite
antenna of a portable radio. You shouldn't need a loop antenna.

What kind of radio are you trying to receive them on? ... or maybe
you're located in a valley surrounded by hills (or mountains ?).

Barry
N4IJN

In a message dated 10/03/2007 08:45:02 GMT Standard Time,
c.beijersbergen@... writes:

And BTW, what should the microprocessor be doing in there?



--------------------------------------

It's used for the automatic tuning.

In order to cover the wide bandwidth the antenna has to be electronically
tuned to the correct operating frequency and this is done by rapidly sweeping
the tuning across the whole band and monitoring for the point at which energy
absorbed by the radio is greatest as this will correspond to the tuned
frequency of the radio.

Fortunately, even a modest microprocessor can scan much faster than a human
operator, or even the fastest scanner, so this process can be repeated rapidly
and remain transparent to the operator.
When a predermined number of scans return the same result the tuning remains
fixed but the energy absorbed continues to be monitored.
If the absorbed energy returns to the pretuned value, or decreases to a
significant extent, it is assumed the radio tuning has changed and the whole
process repeats.
This all happens millions of time a second, so is never obvious to the user,
and part of the design process has to establish the proper times for tuning
period and dwell in order to ensure that no tuning lag occured whilst
minimising the need for repeat cycles.

This great advance in antenna technology is the subject of a number of
patent applications and the electronics are potted in order to protect the
designer's intellectual property rights.