loopantennas@groups.io

Re: Air core loop (experimental loop built and measured)

Steve Ratzlaff

I just built a rough 1 meter diameter loop using #18 wire (1mm/0.04" diameter), with wooden dowels as the form crosspieces and a small piece of cardboard separating the ends about 1/2".
Hanging the loop on an interior wooden door, and using an aade.com LC meter (I have an older one and a newer one), the older one reads 4.55 uH; the newer one reads 4.29 uH. The average of the readings gives 4.42 uH. That's very close to the 4.39 uH value of John's formula; and near to the 4.8 uH value from Jim's loopcalc calculation.

73,
Steve

Show quoted text

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Popelish" <jpopelish@...>
To: <loopantennas@...>
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: [loopantennas] Air core loop

Ken Javor wrote:
on 3/5/07 3:53 PM, John Popelish at jpopelish@... wrote:
exnci2000 wrote:
Hi,
I would like to know how may microhenry corresponds to a single turn
air core loop, 1 meter diameter(conductor diameter= 1 mm).I tried many
differents software but they gives different results.
regardIs this one of the sites you found?

I agree that it doesn't agree very closely with the
approximate formula at the bottom of page 2 of:

I tend to trust sources where the formula is given, even if
they calculate for me, so I can spot check their program.
Based on the second source I think the inductance of your
loop is about 1.2 uH.1.2 uH sounds low to me, I think it will be higher than 3uH.  But if you
have a signal source and a receiver it is easy tomeasure.  Construct a two
wire line that connects the signal source to thereceiver.  At some
frequency around 1 -10 MHz, measure the output with thereceiver.  Then
connect the loop terminals across the line. The loop willload the line to
some degree.  The degree of loading can be used todetermine the impedance
placed across the line.   The impedance can be used toback out the
inductance.
I agree that 1.2 uH seems low (gut feel) but that is what
the reference says.  I checked my old Reference Data for
Radio Engineers, 5th Edition.  On page 6-9 it gives this
formula:
L=(a/100)*(7.353*LOG10(16*a/d)-6.386) microhenries, where a
is the radius of the loop (to the center line of the wire),
in inches and d is the diameter of the wire, inm inches, and
that a/d>2.5

So, replacing the loop diameter of 1 meter with a loop
radius (a) of 19.69 inches, and the 1 mm wire diameter to
(d) of .039 inxches, I get an inductance of about
4.39 uH.

So we have another random data point.  I haven't gone
through the formula in the above reference to check their
example (that was close ot the O.P.s case).

loopcalc.exe gives 4.8uh73

jim ab3cv

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Re: Air core loop

jr_dakota

#3113

I built a tuned loop from a 10 ft piece of copper tubing (3.2 ft/ .98
Meter diameter) about three years ago and it measured as 3.1 uH in
free space using the excellent AADE Digital LC Meter (Highly recommended)

JR

Show quoted text

--- In loopantennas@..., "exnci2000" <awfhgm@...> wrote:

Hi,
I would like to know the correct value, in microhenry, of a single
turn air core loop 1 meter diameter (conductor 1 mm ).I tried many
software but they give me different results.
Regards
Franco.-

Horixontally Oriented, Horizontally Polarized Large Wire Loop Antenna

opalockamishabob

#3115

Hello All,

New member here...here's the link:



I am sure most of us are familiar with this site. Question #2 asks,
"What Shape Should We Make Our HOHPL?"

The first sentence says:

"Ideally, a circular HOHPL would likely be best from a theoretical
perspective. However, a circular at 80 or 160 meters is usually
impractical for most ham installations."

Since my mathematical skills are a little rusty, can anyone tell me
please, what would be the dimensions for a 160 [or an 80] meter
circular loop described on this website?

Many thanks for taking the time to respond!

Alain

Re: Air core loop

John Popelish

#3112

Ken Javor wrote:
on 3/5/07 3:53 PM, John Popelish at jpopelish@... wrote:
exnci2000 wrote:
Hi,
I would like to know how may microhenry corresponds to a single turn
air core loop, 1 meter diameter(conductor diameter= 1 mm).I tried many
differents software but they gives different results.
regardIs this one of the sites you found?

I agree that it doesn't agree very closely with the
approximate formula at the bottom of page 2 of:

I tend to trust sources where the formula is given, even if
they calculate for me, so I can spot check their program.
Based on the second source I think the inductance of your
loop is about 1.2 uH.1.2 uH sounds low to me, I think it will be higher than 3 uH.  But if you
have a signal source and a receiver it is easy to measure.  Construct a two
wire line that connects the signal source to the receiver.  At some
frequency around 1 -10 MHz, measure the output with the receiver.  Then
connect the loop terminals across the line. The loop will load the line to
some degree.  The degree of loading can be used to determine the impedance
placed across the line.   The impedance can be used to back out the
inductance.
I agree that 1.2 uH seems low (gut feel) but that is what the reference says.  I checked my old Reference Data for Radio Engineers, 5th Edition.  On page 6-9 it gives this formula:
L=(a/100)*(7.353*LOG10(16*a/d)-6.386) microhenries, where a is the radius of the loop (to the center line of the wire), in inches and d is the diameter of the wire, inm inches, and that a/d>2.5

So, replacing the loop diameter of 1 meter with a loop radius (a) of 19.69 inches, and the 1 mm wire diameter to (d) of .039 inxches, I get an inductance of about
4.39 uH.

So we have another random data point.  I haven't gone through the formula in the above reference to check their example (that was close ot the O.P.s case).

Re: Air core loop

Ken Javor

#3111

1.2 uH sounds low to me, I think it will be higher than 3 uH.  But if you
have a signal source and a receiver it is easy to measure.  Construct a two
wire line that connects the signal source to the receiver.  At some
frequency around 1 -10 MHz, measure the output with the receiver.  Then
connect the loop terminals across the line. The loop will load the line to
some degree.  The degree of loading can be used to determine the impedance
placed across the line.   The impedance can be used to back out the
inductance.




on 3/5/07 3:53 PM, John Popelish at jpopelish@... wrote:

exnci2000 wrote:
Hi,
I would like to know how may microhenry corresponds to a single turn
air core loop, 1 meter diameter(conductor diameter= 1 mm).I tried many
differents software but they gives different results.
regardIs this one of the sites you found?

I agree that it doesn't agree very closely with the
approximate formula at the bottom of page 2 of:

I tend to trust sources where the formula is given, even if
they calculate for me, so I can spot check their program.
Based on the second source I think the inductance of your
loop is about 1.2 uH.

Re: Air core loop

John Popelish

#3109

exnci2000 wrote:
Hi,
I would like to know how may microhenry corresponds to a single turn
air core loop, 1 meter diameter(conductor diameter= 1 mm).I tried many
differents software but they gives different results.
regardIs this one of the sites you found?

I agree that it doesn't agree very closely with the approximate formula at the bottom of page 2 of:

I tend to trust sources where the formula is given, even if they calculate for me, so I can spot check their program.
Based on the second source I think the inductance of your loop is about 1.2 uH.

Re: Air core loop

Jim Miller

#3110

loopcalc.exe gives 4.8uh

73

jim ab3cv

Show quoted text

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "exnci2000" <awfhgm@...>
To: <loopantennas@...>
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 1:04 PM
Subject: [loopantennas] Air core loop

Hi,
I would like to know how may microhenry corresponds to a single turn
air core loop, 1 meter diameter(conductor diameter= 1 mm).I tried many
differents software but they gives different results.
regard
Franco.-

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No virus found in this incoming message.
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Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.7/710 - Release Date: 3/4/2007 
1:58 PM

Air core loop

#3108

Hi,
I would like to know the correct value, in microhenry, of a single
turn air core loop 1 meter diameter (conductor 1 mm ).I tried many
software but they give me different results.
Regards
Franco.-

Re: AOR LA350 Loop Antenna

#3106

Hello all

The AOR LA350 Loop Antenna is still for sale, is any one still interested in buying it.

Thanks

Andrew.

Show quoted text

----- Original Message -----
  From: Fraser
  To: loopantennas@...
  Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 12:40 PM
  Subject: [loopantennas] Re: AOR LA350 Loop Antenna


  Hi Andrew,

  I had this problem when selling a Lowe PR-150.

  I had people saying they would outbid all others.

  I decided the fairest option was to set a price and offer the unit
  to the first person who contacted me. He was happy to pay the price
  and I was happy to sell so it seemed fair.

  Alternatively you could put it on eB*y

  Fraser (an interested party)

  --- In loopantennas@..., "Andrew Lincoln"
  <andrew.lincoln2@...> wrote:
  >
  > Hello
  >
  > To those that are interested in buying the AOL LA350 Loop Antenna,
  at the moment there are 3 people interested, how can I fairly decide
  which one to sell it to, any suggestions ?
  >
  > Thanks
  >
  > Andrew.
  > ----- Original Message -----
  > From: Fraser
  > To: loopantennas@...
  > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 11:42 AM
  > Subject: [loopantennas] Re: AOR LA350 Loop Antenna
  >
  >
  > Hi Andrew,
  >
  > I tried sendoin a PM but it failed so sorry to the Group for
  posting
  > this reply here.
  >
  > I have a PayPal account and no problen with postage costs.
  >
  > I live in Milton Keynes.
  >
  > Fraser
  >
  > --- In loopantennas@..., "Andrew Lincoln"
  > <andrew.lincoln2@> wrote:
  > >
  > > Hello
  > >
  > > Do you and the other people interested in buying the AOR LA350
  Loop
  > Antenna have a PayPal Account, if not it is easy to register and
  it's
  > free. Web address
  > > www.paypal.com
  > >
  > > One other thing postage would be extra and if required can be
  > registered post or recorded delivery I think it's called.
  Hopefully
  > this won't cost much.
  > > Where do you live, I live in Letchworth Hertfordshire.
  > >
  > > Thanks
  > >
  > > Andrew.
  > > ----- Original Message -----
  > > From: Fraser
  > > To: loopantennas@...
  > > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 11:06 PM
  > > Subject: [loopantennas] Re: AOR LA350 Loop Antenna
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > Hi Andrew,
  > >
  > > If you do decide to sell, I should be grateful for first
  refusal
  > on
  > > it.
  > >
  > > Cheers
  > >
  > > Fraser
  > >
  > > --- In loopantennas@..., "aandrewb2001"
  > > <andrew.lincoln2@> wrote:
  > > >
  > > > Hello all
  > > >
  > > > I have a AOR LA350 Loop Antenna that I might be selling.
  > > > It is in mint condition, not sure if I have still got the
  > manual or
  > > not
  > > > but have got the box.
  > > > Comes with two loops and power adapter.
  > > > I would like ?70.00 for it if I decide to sell, is that
  > reasonable?
  > > >
  > > > Thanks
  > > >
  > > > Andrew.
  > > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Active loop antenna

jr_dakota

#3105

A FET might be alright, definitely the ticket on short whip with a
high impedance .... I'm not sure what the impedances look like on a
(relatively) short untuned loop, I tried to measure one with my AMQRP
Antenna Analyst but I have way too much metal (heat ducts, pipes, etc)
in my basement to get an accurate reading so I need to wait a few more
weeks for the weather to warm up so I can take it outside in the free
and clear and get some measurements

I will say this though, expect a Wellbrook clone from me by the end of
April using a push-pull pair of 2N5109s (or similar) and perhaps a
pair of FETS depending on the impedances or the need for more gain

JR


--- In loopantennas@..., "Keith Browning" <kbrowning@...>
wrote:

How about a plain old FET to lower the loading?
Keith
----- Original Message -----
From: "jr_dakota" <SG2112@...>
To: <loopantennas@...>
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:09 AM
Subject: [loopantennas] Re: Active loop antenna


You need strict 50 ohm input and output impedances for these MMICs to
work properly which is kind of hard to do with the first amplifier on
a broadband antenna ... On a tuned loop with a small pickup loop it
would probably be alright but a plain ol' RF transistor would work as
well or better

You also have to be real careful applying a 1 Ghz amplifier for use in
the HF range because they have a tendency to 'go off' (Oscillate) in
the VHF range where you can't hear (And most people can;t see on their
scope) the result in the receiver but other than it's not working
right (Little or no gain, front end blocking, etc)

Personally I don't like to use them other than in transmitting amps
for the HF range, when you start getting into 2 Meters and up though
they are hard to beat because you can get decent gain and IP3 without
tuned circuits where the difference between a 2 1/2 turn inductor and
a 3 turn inductor can be several Mhz
JR

--- In loopantennas@..., "exnci2000" <awfhgm@> wrote:

Hi,
On minicircuits.com catalog,there are some interesting mololithic Rf
amplifier ERA/MAR series offering good IP3.I would like to know if you
have some schematich diagram to homebrew an active broadband loop
antenna from 100 Khz to 30 Mhz !!
Best regards
Franco
Italy.-




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the file.


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This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.

Re: AOR LA350 Loop Antenna

[email protected]

#3107

Hi Andrew
 
I'm still interested
 
regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR

Re: Active loop antenna

Ralph Lane

#3104

My email address is Rlane7301@...

Ralph

Show quoted text

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fraser" <fraser.castle@...>
To: <loopantennas@...>
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 6:14 PM
Subject: [loopantennas] Re: Active loop antenna

Hi Ralph,

You will need to PM me your email address.

Fraser

--- In loopantennas@..., "Ralph Lane" <rlane7301@...> wrote:

Hi,   add me to the list for the Loop antenna schematic.

Ralph

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Re: Active loop antenna

Fraser

#3103

Hi Ralph,

You will need to PM me your email address.

Fraser

Show quoted text

--- In loopantennas@..., "Ralph Lane" <rlane7301@...> wrote:

Hi,   add me to the list for the Loop antenna schematic.

Ralph

Re: Active loop antenna

Ralph Lane

#3102

Hi,   add me to the list for the Loop antenna schematic.

Ralph

Show quoted text

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fraser" <fraser.castle@...>
To: <loopantennas@...>
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 11:55 AM
Subject: [loopantennas] Re: Active loop antenna


Rob,

Email me and I'll add you to the list of email recipients for the
schematic.

Fraser

--- In loopantennas@..., "Rob Moore" <rmoore5@...> wrote:

Hi,

I'd like a copy of the WL500 schematic!  It will save me a lot of
trouble tracing through the wiring and PC board.

Regards,
Rob


--- In loopantennas@..., "Fraser" <fraser.castle@>wrote:

Hi Franco,

The AOR WL500 uses a MAR6 MMIC from Minicircuits as it's RFamplifier.

The WL500 is varacap diode tuned and uses "bulk inductance" inthe form
of two switched fixed inductors to bring the 2 turn loop toresonance
at the required frequency.

I was VERY surprised to see the MAR6 attched directlt to theoutput of
the tuned loop as it is a 50 ohm inout and output device. I wouldnever
have used such a device in a tuned loop design myself. AOR madeit work
though and the WL500 was apparently a pretty decent tuned HFLoop. It
is now discontinued.

I do have the schematic of the AOR WL500 if you need it but thetwo
fixed loop inductors are not detailed either in type orinductance
value so some experimentation may be required.

You could do worse tan buy a Degen DE31MS as they are so cheapfrom
China via eB*y. You could then experiment with that design toimprove
it if required.

PM me you email address if you want the schematic.

Regards

Fraser

--- In loopantennas@..., "exnci2000" <awfhgm@> wrote:

Hi,
On minicircuits.com catalog,there are some interestingmololithic Rf
amplifier ERA/MAR series offering good IP3.I would like to knowif you
have some schematich diagram to homebrew an active broadbandloop
antenna from 100 Khz to 30 Mhz !!
Best regards
Franco
Italy.-




If you've got links, post them in the Links section!


Post files here. If the file comes from a website, please put it in the Links rather than uploading the file.


You can now view images at higher resolution in Photos. Upload JPG and GIF into Photos. Please convert BMP or TIF to JPG or GIF before uploading.


And please trim all this when replying!
Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: Active loop antenna

Fraser

#3101

Rob,

Email me and I'll add you to the list of email recipients for the
schematic.

Fraser

--- In loopantennas@..., "Rob Moore" <rmoore5@...> wrote:

Hi,

I'd like a copy of the WL500 schematic!  It will save me a lot of
trouble tracing through the wiring and PC board.

Regards,
Rob


--- In loopantennas@..., "Fraser" <fraser.castle@>wrote:

Hi Franco,

The AOR WL500 uses a MAR6 MMIC from Minicircuits as it's RFamplifier.

The WL500 is varacap diode tuned and uses "bulk inductance" inthe form
of two switched fixed inductors to bring the 2 turn loop toresonance
at the required frequency.

I was VERY surprised to see the MAR6 attched directlt to theoutput of
the tuned loop as it is a 50 ohm inout and output device. I wouldnever
have used such a device in a tuned loop design myself. AOR madeit work
though and the WL500 was apparently a pretty decent tuned HFLoop. It
is now discontinued.

I do have the schematic of the AOR WL500 if you need it but thetwo
fixed loop inductors are not detailed either in type orinductance
value so some experimentation may be required.

You could do worse tan buy a Degen DE31MS as they are so cheapfrom
China via eB*y. You could then experiment with that design toimprove
it if required.

PM me you email address if you want the schematic.

Regards

Fraser

--- In loopantennas@..., "exnci2000" <awfhgm@> wrote:

Hi,
On minicircuits.com catalog,there are some interestingmololithic Rf
amplifier ERA/MAR series offering good IP3.I would like to knowif you
have some schematich diagram to homebrew an active broadbandloop
antenna from 100 Khz to 30 Mhz !!
Best regards
Franco
Italy.-

Re: Active loop antenna

Rob Moore

#3100

Hi,

I'd like a copy of the WL500 schematic!  It will save me a lot of
trouble tracing through the wiring and PC board.

Regards,
Rob

Show quoted text

--- In loopantennas@..., "Fraser" <fraser.castle@...> wrote:

Hi Franco,

The AOR WL500 uses a MAR6 MMIC from Minicircuits as it's RF amplifier.

The WL500 is varacap diode tuned and uses "bulk inductance" in the form
of two switched fixed inductors to bring the 2 turn loop to resonance
at the required frequency.

I was VERY surprised to see the MAR6 attched directlt to the output of
the tuned loop as it is a 50 ohm inout and output device. I would never
have used such a device in a tuned loop design myself. AOR made it work
though and the WL500 was apparently a pretty decent tuned HF Loop. It
is now discontinued.

I do have the schematic of the AOR WL500 if you need it but the two
fixed loop inductors are not detailed either in type or inductance
value so some experimentation may be required.

You could do worse tan buy a Degen DE31MS as they are so cheap from
China via eB*y. You could then experiment with that design to improve
it if required.

PM me you email address if you want the schematic.

Regards

Fraser

--- In loopantennas@..., "exnci2000" <awfhgm@> wrote:

Hi,
On minicircuits.com catalog,there are some interesting mololithic Rf
amplifier ERA/MAR series offering good IP3.I would like to know if you
have some schematich diagram to homebrew an active broadband loop
antenna from 100 Khz to 30 Mhz !!
Best regards
Franco
Italy.-

Re: Active loop antenna

Fraser

#3099

Hi Franco,

The AOR WL500 uses a MAR6 MMIC from Minicircuits as it's RF amplifier.

The WL500 is varacap diode tuned and uses "bulk inductance" in the form
of two switched fixed inductors to bring the 2 turn loop to resonance
at the required frequency.

I was VERY surprised to see the MAR6 attched directlt to the output of
the tuned loop as it is a 50 ohm inout and output device. I would never
have used such a device in a tuned loop design myself. AOR made it work
though and the WL500 was apparently a pretty decent tuned HF Loop. It
is now discontinued.

I do have the schematic of the AOR WL500 if you need it but the two
fixed loop inductors are not detailed either in type or inductance
value so some experimentation may be required.

You could do worse tan buy a Degen DE31MS as they are so cheap from
China via eB*y. You could then experiment with that design to improve
it if required.

PM me you email address if you want the schematic.

Regards

Fraser

Show quoted text

--- In loopantennas@..., "exnci2000" <awfhgm@...> wrote:

Hi,
On minicircuits.com catalog,there are some interesting mololithic Rf
amplifier ERA/MAR series offering good IP3.I would like to know if you
have some schematich diagram to homebrew an active broadband loop
antenna from 100 Khz to 30 Mhz !!
Best regards
Franco
Italy.-

Re: Active loop antenna

Keith Browning

#3098

How about a plain old FET to lower the loading?
Keith

Show quoted text

----- Original Message -----
From: "jr_dakota" <SG2112@...>
To: <loopantennas@...>
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:09 AM
Subject: [loopantennas] Re: Active loop antenna

You need strict 50 ohm input and output impedances for these MMICs to
work properly which is kind of hard to do with the first amplifier on
a broadband antenna ... On a tuned loop with a small pickup loop it
would probably be alright but a plain ol' RF transistor would work as
well or better

You also have to be real careful applying a 1 Ghz amplifier for use in
the HF range because they have a tendency to 'go off' (Oscillate) in
the VHF range where you can't hear (And most people can;t see on their
scope) the result in the receiver but other than it's not working
right (Little or no gain, front end blocking, etc)

Personally I don't like to use them other than in transmitting amps
for the HF range, when you start getting into 2 Meters and up though
they are hard to beat because you can get decent gain and IP3 without
tuned circuits where the difference between a 2 1/2 turn inductor and
a 3 turn inductor can be several Mhz
JR

--- In loopantennas@..., "exnci2000" <awfhgm@...> wrote:

Hi,
On minicircuits.com catalog,there are some interesting mololithic Rf
amplifier ERA/MAR series offering good IP3.I would like to know if you
have some schematich diagram to homebrew an active broadband loop
antenna from 100 Khz to 30 Mhz !!
Best regards
Franco
Italy.-

If you've got links, post them in the Links section!

Post files here. If the file comes from a website, please put it in the Links rather than uploading
the file.

You can now view images at higher resolution in Photos. Upload JPG and GIF into Photos. Please
convert BMP or TIF to JPG or GIF before uploading.

And please trim all this when replying!
Yahoo! Groups Links

__________ NOD32 2087 (20070301) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.

Re: Active loop antenna

jr_dakota

#3097

You need strict 50 ohm input and output impedances for these MMICs to
work properly which is kind of hard to do with the first amplifier on
a broadband antenna ... On a tuned loop with a small pickup loop it
would probably be alright but a plain ol' RF transistor would work as
well or better

You also have to be real careful applying a 1 Ghz amplifier for use in
the HF range because they have a tendency to 'go off' (Oscillate) in
the VHF range where you can't hear (And most people can;t see on their
scope) the result in the receiver but other than it's not working
right (Little or no gain, front end blocking, etc)

Personally I don't like to use them other than in transmitting amps
for the HF range, when you start getting into 2 Meters and up though
they are hard to beat because you can get decent gain and IP3 without
tuned circuits where the difference between a 2 1/2 turn inductor and
a 3 turn inductor can be several Mhz
JR

Show quoted text

--- In loopantennas@..., "exnci2000" <awfhgm@...> wrote:

Hi,
On minicircuits.com catalog,there are some interesting mololithic Rf
amplifier ERA/MAR series offering good IP3.I would like to know if you
have some schematich diagram to homebrew an active broadband loop
antenna from 100 Khz to 30 Mhz !!
Best regards
Franco
Italy.-

Re: Loop supports

Richards

#3095

Oh No...I believe antennas put up in lousy
weather last longer.

Just my take...  //////  Richards   //////
===============================================

Bob B. wrote:
   Now all I need is warmer

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weather.

开云体育