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160 meters with AT1000Proll

 

I don't know if this has been brought before because I never have much luck using search. Anyway I have an AT1000Proll that I bought used. Works fine except it won't find a match on 160 meters. I have an EFHW and my MFJ 991B auto tuner matches it to 1.2 usually. I talked to Mark at LDG today and he said it is probably out of range of the tuner specs. I am thinking the AT600Proll that I had previously found a match on 160. That tuner wouldn't start a tune from radio tune button or tune button on the tuner so I returned it to the seller. Anyone have luck tuning a wire on 160 with the AT1000Proll?

Thanks.
Les N8LES
 

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Did you find a resolution to this problem Les? I've had a similar issue with an LDG-1000ProII on 160m since install November of 2023. Mine also seems to be displaying the wrong SWR at 160m so I'm tracking down other topics here.
?
73
Brian
KB9TBB
 

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Brian no resolution. Talked to Mark at LDG and all he could offer was to add more coax (feed line).

Les N8LES?





-------- Original message --------
From: Brian Schousek <brian@...>
Date: 12/1/24 9:24 AM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [ldgelectronics] 160 meters with AT1000Proll

Did you find a resolution to this problem Les? I've had a similar issue with an LDG-1000ProII on 160m since install November of 2023. Mine also seems to be displaying the wrong SWR at 160m so I'm tracking down other topics here.
?
73
Brian
KB9TBB
 

I had trouble getting my AT1000 to tune my 160M loop.? I was experimenting with various baluns.? I have 100ft of LMR400 going to a 1:1 choke, then a 4:1 balun, then 30ft of 450ohm ladder line up to the corner of the loop.? A full wave loop is supposed to be around 100 ohms, which would seem like a better match would be a 2:1 balun, however, there is the 450 ohm ladder line, so not sure what the actual impedance is.? I tried 1:1, 2:1, 4:1, and the tuner would only tune if I was using a 4:1 balun.

Have you tried analyzing your EFHW with a NanoVNA or other analyzer to see what the SWR and impedance is?

On Sun, Dec 1, 2024 at 8:48?AM Les Long N8LES via <longl=[email protected]> wrote:
Brian no resolution. Talked to Mark at LDG and all he could offer was to add more coax (feed line).

Les N8LES?





-------- Original message --------
From: Brian Schousek <brian@...>
Date: 12/1/24 9:24 AM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [ldgelectronics] 160 meters with AT1000Proll

Did you find a resolution to this problem Les? I've had a similar issue with an LDG-1000ProII on 160m since install November of 2023. Mine also seems to be displaying the wrong SWR at 160m so I'm tracking down other topics here.
?
73
Brian
KB9TBB
 

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No I unhooked the LDG and put my MFJ back in line. It tunes 160 with no problem. I bought the LDG because the MFJ didn't do 6 meters. The LDG doesn't work very well on 6 meters either. The internal tuner in my 7300 is able to touch up the swr on 6 meters. So disappointed in the LDG.


On 12/1/2024 7:20 PM, Paul-Ka5pmv via groups.io wrote:

I had trouble getting my AT1000 to tune my 160M loop.? I was experimenting with various baluns.? I have 100ft of LMR400 going to a 1:1 choke, then a 4:1 balun, then 30ft of 450ohm ladder line up to the corner of the loop.? A full wave loop is supposed to be around 100 ohms, which would seem like a better match would be a 2:1 balun, however, there is the 450 ohm ladder line, so not sure what the actual impedance is.? I tried 1:1, 2:1, 4:1, and the tuner would only tune if I was using a 4:1 balun.

Have you tried analyzing your EFHW with a NanoVNA or other analyzer to see what the SWR and impedance is?

On Sun, Dec 1, 2024 at 8:48?AM Les Long N8LES via <longl=[email protected]> wrote:
Brian no resolution. Talked to Mark at LDG and all he could offer was to add more coax (feed line).

Les N8LES?





-------- Original message --------
From: Brian Schousek <brian@...>
Date: 12/1/24 9:24 AM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [ldgelectronics] 160 meters with AT1000Proll

Did you find a resolution to this problem Les? I've had a similar issue with an LDG-1000ProII on 160m since install November of 2023. Mine also seems to be displaying the wrong SWR at 160m so I'm tracking down other topics here.
?
73
Brian
KB9TBB
 

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Remember the basic rule of using odd quarter wavelengths for feedlines and also dedicated single band wire antennas.

?

My LDG tunes across 160m to 6m w/o problems; but then I have a Endfed Multi-band Fractal Wire antenna and switching to a 6m Yagi or using the wire antenna for 6m, as well and the feedline is rather long rolled up into a balun at the base of the antenna masts.

?

For 160m I had experienced similar problems with short feedlines.

?

For 6m the feedlines were too long so I now have about a 110 foot feedline and that allowed operation using wire across 160-6m with the typical difficulty of 20m regardless of whatever tuner one uses.

?

W4JDY

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Les Long N8LES via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2024 9:48 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ldgelectronics] 160 meters with AT1000Proll

?

Brian no resolution. Talked to Mark at LDG and all he could offer was to add more coax (feed line).

?

Les N8LES?

?

?

?

?

?

-------- Original message --------

From: Brian Schousek <brian@...>

Date: 12/1/24 9:24 AM (GMT-05:00)

Subject: Re: [ldgelectronics] 160 meters with AT1000Proll

?

Did you find a resolution to this problem Les? I've had a similar issue with an LDG-1000ProII on 160m since install November of 2023. Mine also seems to be displaying the wrong SWR at 160m so I'm tracking down other topics here.

?

73

Brian

KB9TBB


Virus-free.
 

?With regards to SWR readings- are they being read on the tuner in use? I use an AT1000P2 and an AT600P2, both show SWR reading vastly different than my rigs, my amps and in-line SWR meters. The latter 3 are in close agreement. On some bands/antenna combinations, the LDGs are pegged, the rest of the meters show less than 1.5 to 1. No amount of cable changing or ferrites can clear it up.
Comparing the LDG to a 991B, the MFJ claims a wider range. I don't think there is anything wrong with your LDG, just asking it to do something it's not designed for.?
Mike N3PM
 

Les,
?
I've never run an EFHW antenna but I have an AT1000ProII, 315' EF (non-resonant) wire with a DG0SA-designed 9:1 unun that I built. I used my nanoVNA Ultra to obtain a good 160m SWR and performance. I noticed that the AT1000ProII's tuning range is less on 160m than what it provides on other bands. In particular, it doesn't handle low impedance on 160m very well and I've read online (DJ0IP's websites) that poor low impedance matching is a common limitation with auto tuners in general--particularly on the low bands. It took a bit of work, even with the 315' wire, to find a good counterpoise length using choke placement. I've tried much shorter wires but 315' has worked the best for 160m and all ham frequencies are under 3:1 with my current 315' wire w/ coax counterpoise setup--easily within range of my AT1000ProII.
?
My antenna is not an EFHW like you're running but, without getting into too many details right now, a choke and/or counterpoise can be useful with EFHW antennas too. Have you tried using them as an antenna tuning aid? I don't know what length EFHW wire wire you're using but a multiband EFHW antenna is running a bit like a "random" or "long" wire outside of its harmonic sweet spots! Retired DEC? engineers, "Bob^2" (W1IS and KC1DSQ / ) have made made many public lectures about antennas and you'll find some of them on YouTube. They have posted materials and articles on their website that might be useful to you. I've had great luck tuning my EF "long" wire using chokes and a counterpoise segment, which W1IS and KC1DSQ also advocate for an EFHW. I think it might be worth trying a 36:1 unun, as discussed by Bob^2 too, if you've been using 49:1. There's an example here with a coax counterpoise realized using a choke:
but checkout their entire website.
?
BTW, my LDG AT1000ProII could never tune 160m with my previous 80m OCF antenna (not one of the super fancy Bob^2 OCF designs--just the simple B10 hybrid dual balun that DJ0IP reported to work well in his "Battle of the Baluns" on-line article feeding plain wire with no caps, etc.).
?
73,
Cal (AD8Q)
?
 

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I am using the MFJ on 160 with no problems. My 7300 internal tuner works on my 6 meter antenna so the LDG is on a shelf with no plans to use it at this time.





-------- Original message --------
From: "Cal (AD8Q) via groups.io" <cbrabandt@...>
Date: 12/4/24 12:46 PM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [ldgelectronics] 160 meters with AT1000Proll

Les,
?
I've never run an EFHW antenna but I have an AT1000ProII, 315' EF (non-resonant) wire with a DG0SA-designed 9:1 unun that I built. I used my nanoVNA Ultra to obtain a good 160m SWR and performance. I noticed that the AT1000ProII's tuning range is less on 160m than what it provides on other bands. In particular, it doesn't handle low impedance on 160m very well and I've read online (DJ0IP's websites) that poor low impedance matching is a common limitation with auto tuners in general--particularly on the low bands. It took a bit of work, even with the 315' wire, to find a good counterpoise length using choke placement. I've tried much shorter wires but 315' has worked the best for 160m and all ham frequencies are under 3:1 with my current 315' wire w/ coax counterpoise setup--easily within range of my AT1000ProII.
?
My antenna is not an EFHW like you're running but, without getting into too many details right now, a choke and/or counterpoise can be useful with EFHW antennas too. Have you tried using them as an antenna tuning aid? I don't know what length EFHW wire wire you're using but a multiband EFHW antenna is running a bit like a "random" or "long" wire outside of its harmonic sweet spots! Retired DEC? engineers, "Bob^2" (W1IS and KC1DSQ / ) have made made many public lectures about antennas and you'll find some of them on YouTube. They have posted materials and articles on their website that might be useful to you. I've had great luck tuning my EF "long" wire using chokes and a counterpoise segment, which W1IS and KC1DSQ also advocate for an EFHW. I think it might be worth trying a 36:1 unun, as discussed by Bob^2 too, if you've been using 49:1. There's an example here with a coax counterpoise realized using a choke:
but checkout their entire website.
?
BTW, my LDG AT1000ProII could never tune 160m with my previous 80m OCF antenna (not one of the super fancy Bob^2 OCF designs--just the simple B10 hybrid dual balun that DJ0IP reported to work well in his "Battle of the Baluns" on-line article feeding plain wire with no caps, etc.).
?
73,
Cal (AD8Q)
?
 

Les,
There's always going to be compromises and limitations when it comes to antenna tuners and wire antennas of any length when you want the wire to operate over multiple bands.

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