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110v 240v Electrial advice sought
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Hi Lagoon community. Hoping someone can assist. I have a Lagoon 440 wired for 110volt complete with Onan 11kva genset, 80A Dolphin battery charger, Enag 115VAC 2000w inverter and 1050aH gel house bank. I live in Australia...240v country. Here is the challenge.... I have installed a 240v 50Hz washer (Note here that I probably would have spent more time trying to find a 110v version other than someone advised I could switch the genset between 110v and 240v at a flick of a switch...not possible) and I have considered converting the boat to 240v however all the ac units and water heater element are 110v. I have a paltry 240 watts solar on the coach roof and thinking of upping the ante on solar with some on the davits. I also want to install a water maker which is avail in 110 or 240v. To run my washer and future desal should I be looking at drawing from the house bank with a separate 240v inverter whilst the genset is on pumping 80watts in from the Dolphin charger or is there a means of coming straight from the genset delivering 110v 60Hz and converting that to 240v 50Hz. If a separate 240v inverter is required can anyone re commend a brand and model. The washer requires 1850w and the future desal 1600w continuous. Thanks in advance. Milan Blue Pearl |
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Bruce Wacker
All you need is a 110/240 transformer. They usually can be configured to go either way. So your 110 system stays intact. Just plug thw washer into the 240 side of the transformer.
BTW, when you're at a 240 marina you can also use a sufficiently large transformer for the boat to feed it 110. Bruce 2011 L400 240 with some 110 tools, etc. Apia, Samoa |
开云体育The generator being American should be able to produce 110/220V at 60Hz. You can get 50Hz by slowing the motor down but the power output also goes down. My generator is 9.5Kw at 50 Hz and 11Kw at 60Hz. The issue you face is the impact of the Hz on motors. A 60Hz motor run at 50Hz runs about 17% slower whereas a 50Hz motor being run at 60Hz will run 20% faster. As a rule a 60Hz motor can run generally Ok at 50Hz but the other way round can cause premature failure as the motors run at a higher speed hence the bearings are being asked to run at a higher speed. ? One thing you need to be aware of is how is the 220V being generated. In Australia and Europe 230/240V AC goes from 0-240-0V in one sine wave cycle( 0V is earth potential). In the US they use two 110V supplies( known as hots), one goes from 0V to? +110V back to 0 and another goes from 0V to -110V back to 0V. The power supply has four wires, Earth, Neutral, +110V and -110V. Appliances don’t care about the sign only the potential, so to get 220V you simply connect to the two hot wires with no Neutral. Make sure your electrician understands the difference between US and Europe ? Are you sure that all the AC is 110V? I say that because normally high load items like AC, washer, dryer etc in the US are normally supplied 220V as I explained above to reduce the amps being used (Volts=Amps*Resistance). It is normal for the appliance outlet/plugs to be 110V and the Inverter supplying 110V 60Hz. I’m surprised the water heater is 110V for the same reasons. A kettle or water heater not affected by frequency so a 230V water heater unlikely to be changed to US and power being supplied at 220V via shore power cable (assuming it is 4 wire normally 50A), generator when running. The battery charger again is not normally sensitive to frequency because it is rectifying the AC to DC so tends to be higher voltage ? My vessel was rewired (after a lightening strike in US) to be 60Hz but a hybrid of 220V and 110V. ?Both Generator and Shore power are 220V 60Hz. The battery Charger is 220/240V, didn’t change the water heater (220V) and AC is 220V (some 50/60Hz some 60Hz). The inverter is 110V 60Hz so when on shore power here in Phuket I run the inverter off the battery charger. The AC runs fine but not as powerful. ? I have a 12V water maker which we can use when engines or generator running. ? Hope that helps ? Dave Shaken Not Stern L421 Phuket ? ? |
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simon kelly
Hi Milan,
i have Lagoon 420, 2009 and I live in Australia, Passing Townsville as we speak. I can voice a few suggestions with what I have learnt to date. if you are keeping the boat in Aus change over to 240. Put in 800watts plus of quality solar, rainmaker desal in 240v and 12v with 100litre plus per hour, your inverter is good and house capacity too, Victron inverters are good. If you can pass on where you are I might be able to pass on a reliable contractor which is hard to find at times. cheers simon |
开云体育It’s probably easiest to get a 110 washer but another option is to install a 110 to 220 transformer.? That would be far more efficient than using an inverter.? You could use it for other 220 requirements as they arrive and drive it directly from the genset.? Remember also the 110 is 60 cycle and the 220 is 50.? The transformer will not do anything to alter the frequency.? Most loads are not sensitive to the frequency difference but some will work poorly or not at all.? Good luck ? Jerry Peters s/v Mucho Gusto ? |
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Dave cant help but love the name of your 421. Thanks for the smile, Bil On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 12:03 AM, Dave Bond <d.bond@...> wrote:
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or is there a means of coming straight from the genset delivering 110v 60Hz and converting that to 240v 50Hz.? Yes, the simplest and best way to accomplish a conversion from 110 V AC 60 Hz to 240 V AC 50 Hz is with something called a 50Hz to 60Hz Frequency Converter. They are neither cheap nor light weight a 3kW will set you back in the vicinity of $3,500 AUD plus installation and weigh in at 75 kg. The washer at 1850 watts if run off a separate 12 volt / 240 AC inverter will be drawing something in the vicinity of 150 amps out of your battery bank, neither your solar or 80 amp battery charger are going to be up to that challenge. I suggest a long hard think about what exactly you need / want in the way of electrical power now and into the future, before spending money that may be regretted at a latter date. -- Paul Rogers . Lagoon 450F #233 2013 East Coast of Oz |
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Hi Simon,
By now I'm quite overwhelmed by all the great responses. ?Thankyou. I'm on the Gold Coast. I'm a little concerned about changing the boat over to 240v even though i know the onan can be changed.... I'm just wary of the can of worms that may be opened. If you can put my mind at ease after doing it yourself that may help. It would obviously be desirable to have it all on 240v. The AC units are definitely 115v 60Hz Cruiseairs with Dometic motors. Not sure if maybe just the motors may need changing?? Perhaps someone may be able to advise here? And the water heater element sticker clearly states 110v. I'm guessing that changing a hot water element would note be a big issue.? Definitely concur with your solar thoughts as well as a Rainman high output water maker.? |
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Paul,
Copy that. Appreciate your advice. So maybe some more thought into converting the boat to 240v? I understand the 110v wiring can handle the 240v but it's the other unknowns that worry me. ?I know about the Dometic motors on the Cruiseair ACs and the water heater element requiring 110v 60Hz but it's the other bits and pieces. ?Guessing it's time for a sparky? I'm on Gold Coast. Know anyone reliable? TIA Milan |
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Ok, a couple of thoughts. It seems easier to use a transformer for your needs than to reconvert the entire boat. And more cost effective. One avenue is to have an AC to AC converter and run with the different frequency. I would think over time this method may cause interesting problems that will cost more down the line to correct. The other option is to convert everything to DC then use inverters to convert to the power you need(you already have the inverter for the house). You could find a 240 50hz battery charger for your house bank then find the inverter you need to power house and another inverter to power the washer. This way would require more parts (3) but "portable in nature". Now you can adapt to your surroundings as the need arises. If one of those parts fails, replace as needed. Move to another country, now you only need to change one part, the battery charger. Your ONAN already runs the house. Each country you visit will most likely have a battery charger to fit your needs. This method requires much fewer parts than converting to the 50 hz for the entire house.? On July 14, 2018 at 7:19 PM "milan via Groups.Io" <milanvotrubec@...> wrote: |
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Rob Hepler
开云体育I think I was recently quoted a price for a box that would do this.. I was actually trying to convert 220/60hz single phase to 220/60/3-phase .. the “box” was essentially a VFD (I think) with variable output for voltage, frequency, and phase.I was looking to drive a large table saw, so was pricing units rated for 7kW at 220v - the price FOB from china to USA was <$500. ?I would guess half that for the size you need. ?I found the supplier thru . I did not implement the solution, though, so cannot guarantee that this would work for you, but might be worth looking into. ?Theoretically, will also act as a surge suppressor (although it might do so by falling on its sword) -Rob
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-Rob H Pacific NW, USA No sailing vessel at the moment |
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Plus, using a transformer is encouraged to isolate your boat from the shore power. This method is used to eliminate any DC voltage going through the water back to ground at the pedestal. Eating anodes in its path.?? On July 16, 2018 at 1:21 PM Rob Hepler <rob@...> wrote:
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David Godin