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Use with FT 8
开云体育Gents Today I started using my LA1K and HF Auto Tuner with my IC 7300 running FT 8. I noticed the amp running around 50c after a while so I put it in stand by for a while and resumed operation. Does anyone know if the LA1K has any problems with FT 8 operation? ? W4EZR Olen Persons ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Michael Kelly
Sent: Tuesday, May 2, 2023 4:50 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [la1k] POWER SWITCH FAILURE ? Mine is 2yrs old purchased direct from pal star, never a glitch.? I drive it with 40 watts from a ten tec omni7 and get 800 to 1k out.? Ant is a zero 5 40 meter vert fed with 213 coax. Swr is pretty flat across 40 and 15 meters. Great amp ? On Tue, May 2, 2023 at 4:29 PM tuneupmagic (null) via <tuneupmagic=[email protected]> wrote:
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开云体育I'm not aware of any problems with FT8. Best Regards, and 73 On 5/2/2023 6:28 PM, Olen Persons via
groups.io wrote:
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Ron - WA2EIO
General consensus is to only run a few hundred watts on FT-8:
/g/la1k/search?p=Created%2C%2Cft8+tranmit+power%2C20%2C2%2C0%2C0&q=ft8+power Ron?? WA2EIO |
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I can't speak directly about FT-8, but I have tried to use my amp on other digital modes (using fldigi), and have experience a couple of different issues. For a long time it would keep kicking out into BYPASS for some unknown reason. The antenna is resonant, and I tried it straight, as well as through my HF-AUTO, and the same behaviour. Ultimately I discovered that if I set up the levels differently in the transceiver it would stop kicking out. I am only looking for about 100 watts, so I only drive it with 5W. Now that it has stopped that behaviour I can use it, but the temperature climbs like a rocket! Keep in mind that many of the other modes require longer continuous transmissions, and so after about a minute it is up over 50, and a 2 minute transmission puts it in the red (over 70). In the end I think this amp is not really suited to any digital work, and I now just go direct at 25W. Given I got this amp for some SSB use, and decidedly being able to run 100-200W in digital modes, I am disappointed. My expectation was that trying to run a 1KW amp at 100W would not be any strain on the amp at all. Good luck with FT-8, maybe with it's shorter transmission times it will work for you.
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开云体育What error messages popped up on the LA-1K when it kicked out?My experience doing SSB voice is that the amp’s protection schemes could be unnecessarily set on the conservative side. 73, Ray KJ5MI? On May 3, 2023, at 8:56 AM, Al - KD2PNR via groups.io <ahw609@...> wrote:
?I can't speak directly about FT-8, but I have tried to use my amp on other digital modes (using fldigi), and have experience a couple of different issues. For a long time it would keep kicking out into BYPASS for some unknown reason. The antenna is resonant, and I tried it straight, as well as through my HF-AUTO, and the same behaviour. Ultimately I discovered that if I set up the levels differently in the transceiver it would stop kicking out. I am only looking for about 100 watts, so I only drive it with 5W. Now that it has stopped that behaviour I can use it, but the temperature climbs like a rocket! Keep in mind that many of the other modes require longer continuous transmissions, and so after about a minute it is up over 50, and a 2 minute transmission puts it in the red (over 70). In the end I think this amp is not really suited to any digital work, and I now just go direct at 25W. Given I got this amp for some SSB use, and decidedly being able to run 100-200W in digital modes, I am disappointed. My expectation was that trying to run a 1KW amp at 100W would not be any strain on the amp at all. Good luck with FT-8, maybe with it's shorter transmission times it will work for you.
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开云体育The typical BYPASS SWR as I recall. I worked on that problem for over a year and got nowhere. Even Mark at Palstar was baffled, just kept telling me it had to be an antenna problem somehow, but it ended up being something else. Wish I knew exactly why it was doing it, but I do know what I did to get it to stop, and it had nothing to do with the antenna. |
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Al are you using a lightening arrester in the line to the antenna? Paul NO0T On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 9:07 AM Al - KD2PNR via <ahw609=[email protected]> wrote:
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开云体育
I found that the band sensing of the LA-1K was not fast enough for FT8 on some bands. I cured that by cabling the amp to the radio.? I also run 500 watts on FT8 all the time. I watch the temp and give it a rest when it hits 60c.
Steve W7CM From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Al - KD2PNR via groups.io <ahw609@...>
Sent: Wednesday, May 3, 2023 8:06 AM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [la1k] Use with FT 8 ?
The typical BYPASS SWR as I recall. I worked on that problem for over a year and got nowhere. Even Mark at Palstar was baffled, just kept telling me it had to be an antenna problem somehow, but it ended up
being something else. Wish I knew exactly why it was doing it, but I do know what I did to get it to stop, and it had nothing to do with the antenna.
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开云体育Nope, just 1 piece of coax from the back of the amp to the antenna - a double bazooka swr is 1.02:1 resonant. |
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Al,
I wouldn't put too much faith on the ability of the LA-1K being able to determine SWR with any degree of accuracy. Observations made in March 2023: The LA-1K on STBY mode indicated a 1.6:1 SWR operating LSB on 50.125 MHz, fed by my FTDX101D transceiver RF output = 100W.? But, the SWR meter of my FYDX101D indicated 1.2:1 as can be seen on my YouTube video clip: Btw, my RigExpert AA-55 Zoom indicated a 1.28:1 SWR at 50.125 MHz. 73, Ray KJ5MI |
开云体育Ray,I agree, and do not put too much faith in the reading on the amp. My Rig Expert tells me 1.02:1, but when connected directly to the amp it does show 1.0 SWR. Also my digital SWR/Power meter shows 1.02. This started as a response to the OP that he is not alone in seeing high temps from this amp in a digital mode. I wish I could solve that, as I do not think that asking it to put out 100W for 2 or 3 minutes of constant signal is all that bad. If you were using it in AM at it's limit it would be doing 250W (carrier), and I don't know about you guys, but I often talk more than 2 minutes at a stretch.? ;-}? Fortunately I only do digital or SSB. |
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Al,
When I saw your comment earlier today about your LA-1K "kicking out into BYPASS for some unknown reason" I responded in my post /g/la1k/message/1250 writing in part "My experience doing SSB voice is that the amp’s protection schemes could be unnecessarily set on the conservative side." I have two (2) homebrew monoband verticle dipole antennas (one 20M, the other 40M) connected by way of an antenna switch to my Ameritron ALS-600S bought brand new in 2016 to pair it with my brand new IC-7300 bought sight unseen from Gigaparts when the Icom first hit the street.? When operating SSB voice on both 20M and 40M with that configuration for years, driven the amp with 60+ watts at time, there were absolutely zero issue with the ALS-600 kicking out into bypass, as long as the human operator (me) remembered to manually switch to the correct antenna.? The ALS-600 can take it like a man! However, operating with the same monobanders (driven by my FTDX101D at even 40W) the LA-1K has let me down TNTC (too numerous to count) in the middle of a SSB voice transmission going into BYPASS for one reason or another.? Human not at fault with the LA-1K amp's automatic antenna switching.? I believe the LA-1K protection circuitry is way too conservative, and needs to be optimized to match the performance of my dirt cheap Ameritron ALS-600S. 73, Ray KJ5MI |
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Looks like you must be really unlucky Ray. Been using my LA-1K for years now and it’s been flawless. ? I run 30 watts drive and 1KW out into my 6 meter LFA on CW, SSB, FT8, MSK 144 and Q65. Using the tribander in the last SSB contest when I wondered up to the high end of 15 I didn’t notice I was getting too far from resonance and SWR went to 2:1, it went to bypass to protect the finals.? Just as designed - woohoo! Gotta love it - dummy proof. 73 Paul On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 3:54 PM tuneupmagic (null) via <tuneupmagic=[email protected]> wrote: Al, |
开云体育Thanks all. I think I will keep running 100 150 watch and watch the temperature to let it government length of transmission. As long as the temperature does not get above 50 C, I don’t think it will be a problem as that is similar to what sideband does. I am surprised that digital output only gives me a couple hundred watch that Sideband with the same input would give me five or 600 and watts ?it’s still a little bit strange. Thanks if anybody has any other information about FT8 please share it. Thanks to all have a great day W4EZR. ?Olen Persons 704-201-9446 On May 3, 2023, at 9:56 AM, tuneupmagic (null) via groups.io <tuneupmagic@...> wrote:
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toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On May 3, 2023, at 1:11 PM, tuneupmagic (null) via groups.io <tuneupmagic@...> wrote:
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开云体育
It makes operation very nice and removes the need for the keying line.? Enjoy your amp.
Steve
W7CM
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Olen Persons via groups.io <w4ezr@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 4, 2023 4:00 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [la1k] Use with FT 8 ?
Thanks Steve I will pick up a radio to amp cable.?
Olen Persons
704-201-9446
On May 3, 2023, at 1:11 PM, tuneupmagic (null) via groups.io <tuneupmagic@...> wrote:
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For several months I had many problems using FT-8 with my Palstar LA-1K, however when I changed my coaxial cable to a high quality cable, and better connectors the problems fade away. Nowadays I can work 10 to 40 Meters without problems. I no longer get kicked out to BYPASS. Currently I use a maximum of 600 watts without problems, when I can hear a DX station but they don't hear me. I use a cable developed for hot regions of the World, which is marked as a FT-8 cable( is white not black), and a solid connectors from the same company. Also, I use some coaxial cables heat suppressors at each end of every coax cable(from the same company). My LA-1K at FT-8 can really heat-up fast, but this suppressor works nice. On the other hand, when the LA-1K gets close to 65 degrees the internal fan kicks-in and helps to cool down it(noisy but helpful). Any way I keep an additional fan close to the amplifier air inlet. Finally, I test my coax cables with a VTVM meter for continuity, but also with my antenna tuner using a small 50 ohms resistor from Diamond Antenna, because? I found than even if got a good continuity with the VTVM, with the antenna tuner I could test for a solid cable-connector contact. With the tuner in one hand and the other extreme with the resistor attached to it I moved the end with the resistor in different directions and found that the SWR was constantly changing. Once I rechecked my soldering the SWR stayed absolutely solid. I use the Italian made cable, connector and heat suppressor from Messi & Paolini. However I bet that the other companies should probably have an equivalent cable and connectors. _____________________________ NOTA SOBRE CONFIDENCIALIDAD: Este mensaje y cualquier otro anejo que se incluya con el mismo es propiedad del remitente, y puede ser confidencial, así como estar protegido por la ley vigente. Su uso no autorizado, copiarlo o distribuirlo, está estrictamente prohibido. Si usted ha recibido este mensaje por? error por favor bórrelo, o destrúyalo, y déjeselo saber al remitente inmediatamente. Este mensaje está libre de virus, gusano o troyano cibernético. Sin embargo, es la responsabilidad de la? persona que lo reciba asegurarse de que así sea.? No seremos responsables de ninguna pérdida o da?o que ocurra como consecuencia de abrir o usar este mensaje.
En miércoles, 3 de mayo de 2023, 09:56:13 GMT-4, tuneupmagic (null) via groups.io <tuneupmagic@...> escribió:
What error messages popped up on the LA-1K when it kicked out? My experience doing SSB voice is that the amp’s protection schemes could be unnecessarily set on the conservative side. 73, Ray KJ5MI? On May 3, 2023, at 8:56 AM, Al - KD2PNR via groups.io <ahw609@...> wrote:
?I can't speak directly about FT-8, but I have tried to use my amp on other digital modes (using fldigi), and have experience a couple of different issues. For a long time it would keep kicking out into BYPASS for some unknown reason. The antenna is resonant, and I tried it straight, as well as through my HF-AUTO, and the same behaviour. Ultimately I discovered that if I set up the levels differently in the transceiver it would stop kicking out. I am only looking for about 100 watts, so I only drive it with 5W. Now that it has stopped that behaviour I can use it, but the temperature climbs like a rocket! Keep in mind that many of the other modes require longer continuous transmissions, and so after about a minute it is up over 50, and a 2 minute transmission puts it in the red (over 70). In the end I think this amp is not really suited to any digital work, and I now just go direct at 25W. Given I got this amp for some SSB use, and decidedly being able to run 100-200W in digital modes, I am disappointed. My expectation was that trying to run a 1KW amp at 100W would not be any strain on the amp at all. Good luck with FT-8, maybe with it's shorter transmission times it will work for you.
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Steve,
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Show quoted text
When is this a problem, when you first transmit, or when you change ft8 tx frequency? Thanks, David AF6HO On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 08:24 AM, Steve Snyder wrote:
-- -------------- David AF6HO |
开云体育
When you transmit. The amp senses what frequency every time you key up. With the tether the amp knows where the radio is. That is the way it was explained to me. I know it fixed my issue.
Steve
W7CM
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of David Smith <dsmith@...>
Sent: Wednesday, May 3, 2023 5:11 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [la1k] Use with FT 8 ?
Steve,
When is this a problem, when you first transmit, or when you change ft8 tx frequency? Thanks, David AF6HO On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 08:24 AM, Steve Snyder wrote:
-- -------------- David AF6HO |
Paul
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