Re: Jumpers and zero-ohm resistors
Thank you, Robert.
On 2024-09-20 20:05, Robert via
groups.io wrote:
Given what
you are trying to achieve, John, you could create a custom
schematic symbol that looks like a wire segment.?? You could even
hide
all the text fields.?? Basically it would just be two back-back
pins, so
once connected up it would just be a straight line on the
schematic
(albeit brown, which will help you find it again :)).
Regards,
Robert.
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Best Wishes
John Woodgate
Keep trying
|
Re: Jumpers and zero-ohm resistors
Given what you are trying to achieve, John, you could create a custom
schematic symbol that looks like a wire segment. You could even hide
all the text fields. Basically it would just be two back-back pins, so
once connected up it would just be a straight line on the schematic
(albeit brown, which will help you find it again :)).
Regards,
Robert.
|
Re: Jumpers and zero-ohm resistors
Thanks, Tony. My need is very simple, to allow
one track on a layer to cross another. I can put zero ohm
resistors on the schematic, but (inevitably, I suppose) that
restricts the routing of the jumpered track. In other words,
without the jumper I could join point C to either point A? or
point B, but if a jumper is needed between B and C, point C can
only be joined to point B.
On 2024-09-20 17:49, Tony Casey wrote:
If you want to use headers and links, I have
schematic symbols for those. Perhaps KiCad even has them in one
of its extensive library, I don't know.
Alternatively, use zero Ohm resistors, and add a
text note to say what they are for. Do that, as well for
links. If they are multiple position links, add a truth table.
I try to put everything on the schematic. That
way, nothing gets missed.
--
Regards,
Tony?
--
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Best Wishes
John Woodgate
Keep trying
|
Re: Jumpers and zero-ohm resistors
If you want to use headers and links, I have schematic symbols for those. Perhaps KiCad even has them in one of its extensive library, I don't know.
Alternatively, use zero Ohm resistors, and add a text note to say what they are for. Do that, as well for links. If they are multiple position links, add a truth table.
I try to put everything on the schematic. That way, nothing gets missed.
-- Regards, Tony?
On 20 Sep 2024 17:17, John Woodgate <jmw@...> wrote:
Thanks, Robert. I suppose they have to be
placed in the schematic exactly where they are needed in the
layout, which can make the schematic look very odd.
On 2024-09-20 16:35, Robert via
groups.io wrote:
They are
normally in the schematic as zero ohm resistors.?? In the
layout they can be whatever you like, eg pukkka zero ohm resistors
(wire-ended or surface mount), hand-cut wire links, blobs of
solder, etc.
Regards,
Robert
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Re: Jumpers and zero-ohm resistors
Thanks, Jean-Paul, but I want to jump over a
track on a 2-layer through-hole board. A zero-ohm resistor
works.
On 2024-09-20 17:21, jpgendner via
groups.io wrote:
Hello,
??? Instead of jumper, I offen use so called in French "coffee
bean". Just put a drop of solder to make the
connection.
 ???
??? Regards, Jean-Paul
****
Site :
Le 2024-09-20 à 17:30, John Woodgate
a écrit?:
How are jumpers? included in a board
design? Do they appear in the schematic or only in the PCB
layout? Are they to be treated as zero-ohm resistors,
perhaps?
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only
Best Wishes
John Woodgate
Keep trying
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only
Best Wishes
John Woodgate
Keep trying
|
Re: Jumpers and zero-ohm resistors
Hello,
??? Instead of jumper, I offen use so called in French "coffee
bean". Just put a drop of solder to make the
connection.
 ??? 
??? Regards, Jean-Paul
****
Site :
Le 2024-09-20 à 17:30, John Woodgate a
écrit?:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
How are jumpers? included in a board design?
Do they appear in the schematic or only in the PCB layout? Are
they to be treated as zero-ohm resistors, perhaps?
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only
Best Wishes
John Woodgate
Keep trying
|
Re: Jumpers and zero-ohm resistors
Thanks, Robert. I suppose they have to be
placed in the schematic exactly where they are needed in the
layout, which can make the schematic look very odd.
On 2024-09-20 16:35, Robert via
groups.io wrote:
They are
normally in the schematic as zero ohm resistors.?? In the
layout they can be whatever you like, eg pukkka zero ohm resistors
(wire-ended or surface mount), hand-cut wire links, blobs of
solder, etc.
Regards,
Robert
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software.
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John Woodgate
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Re: Jumpers and zero-ohm resistors
They are normally in the schematic as zero ohm resistors. In the
layout they can be whatever you like, eg pukkka zero ohm resistors
(wire-ended or surface mount), hand-cut wire links, blobs of solder, etc.
Regards,
Robert
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Jumpers and zero-ohm resistors
How are jumpers? included in a board design?
Do they appear in the schematic or only in the PCB layout? Are
they to be treated as zero-ohm resistors, perhaps?
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only
Best Wishes
John Woodgate
Keep trying
|
Re: How to print a BOM? [Solved]
On 15.09.24 17:37, John Woodgate wrote:
> Geologically recent.?
>
> On 2024-09-15 17:06, Alan Pearce via groups.io wrote:
> > That is not pretty recent, that is bordering on ancient.
> >
> > Kicad is now up to version 8, and they bring out a new version with new
> > features each year, along with updates during the year.
> >
> > On Fri, 13 Sept 2024 at 09:23, dvalin via groups.io <>
> >
> >???? I have yet to upgrade from "5.0.2+dfsg1-1 release build". (2018, so
> >???? pretty recent.)
> >
To be fair, at age 70, anything post millennial seems pretty recent, and
even hurrying occurs at a measured pace, not helped by having to stop
for extra coffee to remember where that tube of triacs went to.
(When the board's populated & debugged, and the firmware done, then
(after coffee and TimTams, I'll update kicad - All things in their
season, I figure.) AND that Kicad 5.02 is still delivering well is
testament to its developers too.
I have though managed to condense the 1978 lines of random data dump,
produced by the loosely named "Generate BOM" clicky thing, to 54 lines
of actual BOM, using a few script lines I've put into ~/bin/xml2bom:
#!/bin/bash
# Converts an XML BOM from kicad to xml2's internal "flat" format,
# then extracts Part Number, Description, and Package information
# from kicad's 97% verbiage, leaving a useful BOM.
xml2 < $1 | awk --field-separator '=' '
$1 ~ /@ref$/???????? { p = $2 }
$1 ~/value$/???????? { Desc[p] = $2 }
$1 ~ /footprint$/??? { n = split($2,A,/:/)
?????????????????????? Pack[p] = A[2]
???????????????????? }
END????? { for (i in Desc) printf("%s\t%s\t%s\n",i,Desc[i],Pack[i]) }
'
It does put R10 and R11 before R1, and I have yet to weave a "sort"
incantation to fix that. The rest is good enough to start with:
...
C7????? 47 nF?? C_Rect_L16.5mm_W4.7mm_P15.00mm_MKT
C8????? 10 nF?? C_Rect_L16.5mm_W4.7mm_P15.00mm_MKT
C9????? 100 nF? C_0805_2012Metric_Pad1.15x1.40mm_HandSolder
X1????? 4 MHz?? Crystal_HC50_Vertical
IC1???? ATmega16-16AU?? TQFP-44_10x10mm_P0.8mm
IC2???? LP2950-5.0????? TO-252-2
IC3???? MOC3052 DIP-6_W8.89mm_SMDSocket_LongPads
IC4???? PS2701? SO-4_4.4x3.6mm_P2.54mm
...
A trivial tweak of the three pattern regexes would allow it to digest
the raw XML, obviating need for xml2, but the XML was rather daunting at
first sight.
Erik
|
Geologically recent.?
On 2024-09-15 17:06, Alan Pearce via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
That is not
pretty recent, that is bordering on ancient.
Kicad is
now up to version 8, and they bring out a new version with
new features each year, along with updates during the year.
I have yet to upgrade from "5.0.2+dfsg1-1 release
build". (2018, so
pretty recent.)
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only
Best Wishes
John Woodgate
Keep trying
|
That is not pretty recent, that is bordering on ancient.
Kicad is now up to version 8, and they bring out a new version with new features each year, along with updates during the year.
I have yet to upgrade from "5.0.2+dfsg1-1 release build". (2018, so
pretty recent.)
_._,_._,_
|
A few years ago I was using PCB Pool for my hobby boards. They did a great job of finishing the edges of the boards. Basically a clean routed edge on all sides.
I then switched to OSH Park because I'm in the US and that helped avoid overseas credit card payments. OSH Park does a great job, but they do leave those little spikes on the edges of the boards, so I have to manually sand them off. Not a big deal for the quantities I do, but it would be nicer if they did the trimming at their shop.
Anyway, you might look at PCB Pool - they were great at trimming the edges.
BTW, OSH Park says not to put the board outline in every gerber - they only want it in its own file.
Steve
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 9/13/24 11:00 AM, Ian Bell via groups.io wrote: I don't want to make a big thing of this - as I said it was easy to work around. However, the? board *outline*?is supposed to have zero thickness - it is just a bounding box not a physical thing. The reason for plotting it on all layers is it helps the manufacturer visualize the overall shape of the board no matter what layer they are looking at which is important for assessing manufacturability e.g track to edge clearances. But as I say it is not a big thing, it only occurs with Aisler and it is easy to work round.
The more serious issue was them not properly finishing the sides of the PCBs. For boards that do not have to plug in it is not an issue but most of my boards need to plug into Eurorack card guides and it is a serious PITA to have to do this manual operation on every one. As I said, only Aisler has this problem and even after discussion they were not prepared to do anything about it. Seems to me they were not what I would call "beautiful boards" which is what they claim to provide. I was really disappointed because I really wanted to move away from Chinese production and Aisler were by far the best value in Europe.
Cheers
Ian
On Fri, 13 Sept 2024 at 12:54, Robert via groups.io <> <birmingham_spider@... <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
?> line of track disappeared. The point was this only occurs with this
?> supplier. I have used many others in China and the UK and never had
?> this issue.
Well they are just doing what your Gerbers call for, which sounds like a
positive thing to me.? ?What if you /wanted/ the outline on all layers,
but found the manufacturer was removing it?? ?I've never plotted the
outline on all layers, because I don't want it on all layers.
Regards,
Robert.
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I don't want to make a big thing of this - as I said it was easy to work around. However, the? board outline?is supposed to have zero thickness - it is just a bounding box not a physical thing. The reason for plotting it on all layers is it helps the manufacturer visualize the overall shape of the board no matter what layer they are looking at which is important for assessing manufacturability e.g track to edge clearances. But as I say it is not a big thing, it only occurs with Aisler and it is easy to work round.
The more serious issue was them not properly finishing the sides of the PCBs. For boards that do not have to plug in it is not an issue but most of my boards need to plug into Eurorack card guides and it is a serious PITA to have to do this manual operation on every one. As I said, only Aisler has this problem and even after discussion they were not prepared to do anything about it. Seems to me they were not what I would call "beautiful boards" which is what they claim to provide. I was really disappointed because I really wanted to move away from Chinese production and Aisler were by far the best value in Europe.
Cheers
Ian
On Fri, 13 Sept 2024 at 12:54, Robert via <birmingham_spider= [email protected]> wrote: ?> line of track disappeared. The point was this only occurs with this
?> supplier. I have used many others in China and the UK and never had
?> this issue.
Well they are just doing what your Gerbers call for, which sounds like a
positive thing to me.? ?What if you /wanted/ the outline on all layers,
but found the manufacturer was removing it?? ?I've never plotted the
outline on all layers, because I don't want it on all layers.
Regards,
Robert.
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line of track disappeared. The point was this only occurs with this
supplier. I have used many others in China and the UK and never had
this issue. Well they are just doing what your Gerbers call for, which sounds like a positive thing to me. What if you /wanted/ the outline on all layers, but found the manufacturer was removing it? I've never plotted the outline on all layers, because I don't want it on all layers. Regards, Robert. * Plain text email - safe, readable, inclusive. * -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
|
It occured on boards of all sizes but as soon as I removed the board outline from all Gerber layers except the board outline itself, the thin line of track disappeared. The point was this only occurs with this supplier. I have used many others in China and the UK and never had this issue.
Cheers
Ian
That means they panelized it. This is very common and some assemblers will not assemble a board without it. I am guessing your board was bigger than 2 inches?
On Fri, Sep 13, 2024, 2:51?AM Ian Bell via <ianthompsonbell= [email protected]> wrote: There was a very thin extra track around the board.
Cheers
Ian
On Fri, 13 Sept 2024 at 06:38, Anders via <anders.gustafsson= [email protected]> wrote: True, I just file off the remnants of the mousebites, but that is an extra step. The other issue you had... I do not quite follow? You mean there is an extra track around the board? Never seen that
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That means they panelized it. This is very common and some assemblers will not assemble a board without it. I am guessing your board was bigger than 2 inches?
On Fri, Sep 13, 2024, 2:51?AM Ian Bell via <ianthompsonbell= [email protected]> wrote: There was a very thin extra track around the board.
Cheers
Ian
On Fri, 13 Sept 2024 at 06:38, Anders via <anders.gustafsson= [email protected]> wrote: True, I just file off the remnants of the mousebites, but that is an extra step. The other issue you had... I do not quite follow? You mean there is an extra track around the board? Never seen that
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The reason why kicad exports xml is to allow the BOM output to be set to whatever you want it to be, including CSV, but it was never user-friendly. Poking around my kicad installation suggests python scripts started to be shipped with kicad 6. I can send you the python scripts that were shipped with kicad 6 and kicad 7 if you would like to experiment, but I don't know if they would work with kicad 5 (if they don't, maybe some editing would get them working). You could upgrade kicad, in which case you would get the scripts and everything should just work. That will require some work on your part, particularly with respect to libraries, but this is what I would recommend as it's by far and away the best use of time. If you really don't want to upgrade and the kicad 6/7 python scripts don't work with kicad 5, I can send you my xsltproc based files, but you would need to modify what I have done, because it's very specific to my own setup. So you would be spending time on a dead-end, and I would have to spend time explaining everything. Regards, Robert. * Plain text email - safe, readable, inclusive. * On 13/09/2024 09:23, dvalin via groups.io wrote: I have yet to upgrade from "5.0.2+dfsg1-1 release build". (2018, so
pretty recent.) -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
|
> On Thu, Sep 12, 2024, 11:21 Robert via groups.io <birmingham_spider=
>
> > When you generate the BOM from eeschema, the dialog box lists a number
> > of BOM generator scripts.?? Did you pick one of them?
None were listed. All the sub-boxes in the dialogue box were blank.
I repeat: All the sub-boxes in the dialogue box were blank.
I therefore had no option but to press "generate" and take what came.
It is some alternative to this paucity of options that I hoped to find.
> > I do have my own scripts if you are interested, but they date back to
> > stone-age Kicad in that they use a tool called xsltproc.?? These days
> > Kicad uses Python scripts.
I have yet to upgrade from "5.0.2+dfsg1-1 release build". (2018, so
pretty recent.)
All I needed was for kicad to do nothing. Just dump plain text to a file,
if that is not too hard for it to achieve without plugins and python. (To filter the text, I'll just use Awk.) It is the damn XML which was clogging up the works, as I had nothing to decrypt that obfuscation.
> > BTW, I use a pivot table to create a grouped BOM from a simple CSV list,
> > as personally I found that better than trying to do the grouping in the
> > script.?? Things may have improved in kicad since I got this working,
> > but what I have works, so I'm not going to fix it!
If kicad would only issue a CSV - in plain text - then I could do
anything and everything with that, elegantly and simply, using Awk.
Many thanks for your interest, Robert.
I've now installed the Linux package "xml2", which should be able to
provide a CSV by means of xml2 and 2csv, but the latter borks, no
manpage is provided, and the nominated doco link is a 404. So it is
abandonware. But just xml2 does convert to a simpler looking list of 99%
extraneous gumpf interspersed with 1% real BOM data, i.e. Part Number,
Description, Package.
I'm amazed that a simple shopping list is more than kicad can manage by
itself?
On 12.09.24 12:16, Lev wrote:
> You should use the provided BOM generators, or write your own. I recommend
> exporting BOM to csv, and opening it in Libreoffice. Then you can pretty
> print it.
That is what I have done. Kicad provided no alternative to the XML
output. If it could do CSV, I would pounce on it instantly. It is the
lack of BOM generator options which was the issue.
That may be less of a problem once I update, but there's a lot on the
plate ATM, and finishing the job with the version on hand didn't look
impossible, as it didn't look completely broken - just lacking anything
other than XML.
If it can't be tickled into more useful output, then I've found a way to
reduce the hoo-hah in XML, and a few lines of Awk can filter out 99% of
the remaining obfuscation, giving Part Number, Description, Package, and
even distilling Quantity of identical components, if I'm inclined.
Erik
|
Did you ever tried PCBWAY i chinese company? I used in the past to work with them for some boards and I found they are professional,have good prices and clean manufacturing. They perform several tests on the documentation you send and no way to proceed until everything seems correct. This is not, of course, the guarantee that all is perfect, but it is a pretty good start.
There was a very thin extra track around the board.
Cheers
Ian
On Fri, 13 Sept 2024 at 06:38, Anders via <anders.gustafsson= [email protected]> wrote: True, I just file off the remnants of the mousebites, but that is an extra step. The other issue you had... I do not quite follow? You mean there is an extra track around the board? Never seen that
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John Woodgate
Tony Casey
Steven A. Falco
Ian Bell