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Yes, you did, and I am grateful for all help, but you wrote this:

Just add them to the schematic as symbols, as others have said.?

So, with the Schematic screen open, I look for symbols for mounting holes and I don't find them. Do you see that there is a single crucial piece of data missing? I'm beginning to deduce that they have to be added as pads, but until just now, I think that no-one has said so explicitly, and there is still a question whether that's the best, or the only, way to do it.

I answered that in my email sent at 11:50 ... and I've answered it
before, not so long ago.?? Additionally there may also be special
symbols in one of the supplied symbol libraries, but I stopped using
those long ago.

Regards,

Robert.

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On 30/08/2024 18:43, John Woodgate via groups.io wrote:

But how do you add mounting holes to a schematic? It seems impossible to
get to a Mounting hole library from the Schematic screen. Do they have
to be added as pads, adjusted to have no copper?

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I answered that in my email sent at 11:50 ... and I've answered it
before, not so long ago. Additionally there may also be special
symbols in one of the supplied symbol libraries, but I stopped using
those long ago.

Regards,

Robert.

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On 30/08/2024 18:43, John Woodgate via groups.io wrote:

But how do you add mounting holes to a schematic? It seems impossible to
get to a Mounting hole library from the Schematic screen. Do they have
to be added as pads, adjusted to have no copper?

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I always use pads with cooper. The pads may be connected to a net or not.
Regards, Jean-Paul

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But how do you add mounting holes to a schematic? It seems impossible to get to a Mounting hole library from the Schematic screen. Do they have to be added as pads, adjusted to have no copper?

As you say, screws should be on the BOM, and the way to do this is add them to the schematic as mechanical parts, which have a footprint of a mounting hole. The mounting hole then gets automatically added to the footprints in the layout.

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Unfortunately, the REF** is only a symptom of the real problem.

"But I see no way of changing the 'REF**' text for the mounting holes in the PCB."

"So you need to click on the component properties, and uncheck the "visible" flag on the "reference" field."

?

If it helps any, another way to switch the 'REF**'? 'visible' flag to 'off' is to hit 'Delete' after clicking on it.? Most projects do not need a RefDes label on the silk for mounting holes- especially if you are already tight for space.

?

Kind regards,

Brian

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John Woodgate
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Cherrytree leaves everything else standing IMHO

You don't have to "tag" anything Just one tree pane and the rest
is open for the work. You can search the entire tree or just nodes.
Searching the entire tree is where things get slow if the file is big
Which is why I would like to have separate notebooks on different tabs.



It looks a bit dated old fashioned in it's interface but it works. It
also has basic programming interfaces not something I use, but
the ability to cut and paste text and images is very good.

You can export nodes to text, html and pdf.

Another big advantage is that it's all local, no fancy cloud setups or
whatever.

I've been using it for many years, and never found anything
better. (despite looking every so often)


Available for both Linux , mac and windows.

Worth looking at if you are not happy with your current notebook system.



Click on "stable" for the downloads.

Andy


On Fri, 30 Aug 2024 12:35:18 -0400
"John Hudak" <jjhudak@...> wrote:

Yes note taking cannot be overstated. Never heard of Cherrytree...how does
it compare to Joplin?

On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 10:24?AM Andy via groups.io <andygio=
[email protected]> wrote:

On Fri, 30 Aug 2024 05:33:56 +0000
"dvalin via groups.io" <dvalin@...> wrote:

On 24.08.24 16:07, Andy wrote:

Record the steps - no one does that :-)

It can be sanity-preserving. In 30 years of embedded development, I made

460 pages of notes in Vim, folded to a single TOC page, expanding and

searchable, with keywords for quicker hits. After a few decades, it can

I use cherrytree as a notebook system Nearly 60Mb now. Getting so big that
in some cases cherrytree can't really cope but it's about the only thing
out there that works well enough for me.

The are 637 nodes each node can be many pages long

What it needs is a way to split things down into separate notebooks in
their own tab, that is a often requested feature, but not implemented as
yet.

All of the other notebooks I've looked at seem to think that "markdown" is
what everyone wants. When I've tried them they turn out to be so
convoluted that I have to give up on them.

Andy

On Fri, 30 Aug 2024 05:33:56 +0000
"dvalin via groups.io" <dvalin@...> wrote:

On 24.08.24 16:07, Andy wrote:

Record the steps -? no one does that :-)

It can be sanity-preserving. In 30 years of embedded development, I made

460 pages of notes in Vim, folded to a single TOC page, expanding and

searchable, with keywords for quicker hits. After a few decades, it can

I use cherrytree as a notebook system Nearly 60Mb now. Getting so big that
in some cases cherrytree can't really cope but it's about the only thing
out there that works well enough for me.

The are 637 nodes each node can be many pages long

What it needs is a way to split things down into separate notebooks in
their own tab, that is a often requested feature, but not implemented as
yet.

All of the other notebooks I've looked at seem to think that "markdown" is
what everyone wants. When I've tried them they turn out to be so
convoluted that I have to give up on them.

Andy

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In a distant past, I used two separate masses/grounds, which is easy in Kicad. But it's been a long time since I used only one.

Don't forget that the case is connected back to the central safety earth
via a length of wire, which will have impedance.

Regards,

Robert.

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I don't agree with that, and I am involved in safety standards. Even if signal ground jumps to a high voltage due to a fault, the metal case is connected to chassis ground, which (in Class 1 equipment) is connected to the building safety ground. There is no electric shock hazard. If something has a metal case, it should be either Class 1 or Class 3 (powered by extra-low voltage). Class 2 ('double insulated') boxes should be non-conducting, even if they require an internal conductive coating or an internal foil shield for EMC reasons.

For example, typically on the
boards I design I use 0.2 mm spacing, but with chassis ground (when
present) I make the spacing 0.85 mm.?? That way, if the internal
circuitry suddenly finds itself at a high voltage relative to chassis
ground during a fault, anyone touching the metal casing at the time wont
have their socks blown off.

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John Woodgate
Keep trying

Just a warning to remember to take into account creepage distance when
you have chassis ground on board. In other words, the distance between
chassis ground and all the other copper is typically greater than the
spacing used generally in order to maintain safety during faults (and
therefore electrical safety testing). For example, typically on the
boards I design I use 0.2 mm spacing, but with chassis ground (when
present) I make the spacing 0.85 mm. That way, if the internal
circuitry suddenly finds itself at a high voltage relative to chassis
ground during a fault, anyone touching the metal casing at the time wont
have their socks blown off.

Now in some respects having bolt holes connected to chassis ground in
the schematic will help you here, because in the board layout you just
make the chassis ground track spacing the relevant amount (in my case
0.85 mm), and Kicad does the rest. However, there is a gotcha. I've
not found a way to tell Kicad to maintain a safe distance /through/ the
board. That means one has to manually maintain the distance between
chassis ground and the layers beneath it ... and that's really easy to
screw up. Does anyone know a way to automate that?

Regards,

Robert.

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Merci.

Exemple of how I do in schematic. Trou_fixation = Mounting hole.

Regards, Jean-Paul

Site :

Le 2024-08-30 à 13:14, John Woodgate a écrit?:

Thank you. Yes, I do need to ground two of the mounting holes. These things are simple when you know how, but not if you don't. There are several steps to get exactly right.

On 2024-08-30 11:50, Robert via groups.io wrote:

Kicad has always understood mounting holes, and it really is very
simple.?? Just add them to the schematic as symbols, as others have
said.?? It's always been possible to make your own symbols, or make use
of something out of the supplied libraries such as a single pin
connector symbol.?? If you want them to relate to specific screws, put
the part number for the screw in the Value field of the schematic
symbol, and the relevant hole in the Footprint field (eg M3-HOLE).?? Now
when you export the BOM, it will be complete with part numbers for the
screws.

Note that by placing mounting holes in the schematic, you can optionally
connect them electrically to something, such as chassis ground
(filtering components are often connected to chassis ground rather than
signal ground).?? The schematic is very much the place to have the
mounting holes defined.

Regards,

Robert.

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Keep trying

Virus-free.

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John Woodgate
Keep trying

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Exemple of how I do in schematic. Trou_fixation = Mounting hole.

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Thank you. Yes, I do need to ground two of the mounting holes. These things are simple when you know how, but not if you don't. There are several steps to get exactly right.

Kicad has always understood mounting holes, and it really is very
simple.?? Just add them to the schematic as symbols, as others have
said.?? It's always been possible to make your own symbols, or make use
of something out of the supplied libraries such as a single pin
connector symbol.?? If you want them to relate to specific screws, put
the part number for the screw in the Value field of the schematic
symbol, and the relevant hole in the Footprint field (eg M3-HOLE).?? Now
when you export the BOM, it will be complete with part numbers for the
screws.

Note that by placing mounting holes in the schematic, you can optionally
connect them electrically to something, such as chassis ground
(filtering components are often connected to chassis ground rather than
signal ground).?? The schematic is very much the place to have the
mounting holes defined.

Regards,

Robert.

* Plain text email - safe, readable, inclusive. *

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.

-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only
Best Wishes
John Woodgate
Keep trying

Kicad has always understood mounting holes, and it really is very
simple. Just add them to the schematic as symbols, as others have
said. It's always been possible to make your own symbols, or make use
of something out of the supplied libraries such as a single pin
connector symbol. If you want them to relate to specific screws, put
the part number for the screw in the Value field of the schematic
symbol, and the relevant hole in the Footprint field (eg M3-HOLE). Now
when you export the BOM, it will be complete with part numbers for the
screws.

Note that by placing mounting holes in the schematic, you can optionally
connect them electrically to something, such as chassis ground
(filtering components are often connected to chassis ground rather than
signal ground). The schematic is very much the place to have the
mounting holes defined.

Regards,

Robert.

* Plain text email - safe, readable, inclusive. *

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