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Locked touch screen monitors


 

Greetings and Happy Holidays to all! I want to control the turnouts/ routes in various yards on the layout with touch screen monitors. So far I have set up several panels in layout editor and have tested them. All good so far. I How envision using a small touch screen monitor at each end of double end yards to align the routes in and out of each of the yard tracks. I may need up to 12 such monitors. Will JMRI support this? All of the panels are open on my computer now, but how do I get the appropriate panel to appear on each of the monitors at the various yard locations? Since I am not a computer type person I would appreciate getting pointed in the right direction.Thanks.


 

Charles,
I use the JMRI web server to wireless communicate with a iPad that I use as a walk around control panel. Check out the web server guidance in JMRI documentation. JMRI will create a web server on the computer where JMRI is running then you can view your panels via any wireless device. Works well. If you want multiple screens scattered around your layout, you can use older (cheap) iPads or any other similar device. I have seen that done. For me, a single iPad give me all I need to work from anywhere on my layout.
Paul D


 

Charles,

On Thu, Dec 27, 2018 at 07:16 AM, charles bassing wrote:

I want to control the turnouts/ routes in various yards on the layout with touch screen monitors.

So far I have set up several panels in layout editor and have tested them. All good so far. I How envision using a small touch screen monitor at each end of double end yards to align the routes in and out of each of the yard tracks. I may need up to 12 such monitors.

Our club layout has thirteen Android tablets that originally augmented and now have partially replaced hardware control panels. Many of the tablets were donated by members as they bought newer devices, but searching the internet will provide numerous options. The more busy station displays work better with 7 to 10 inch screens. All of the Androids are using the Chrome browser to access our WiFi router. If you are using Chrome, be certain that you have the most recent version that your tablet will run for each tablet.

Will JMRI support this? All of the panels are open on my computer now, but how do I get the appropriate panel to appear on each of the monitors at the various yard locations?

Start with the information found at:

and, even though you did not mention use of WiFi for throttle, it is practical to be aware of the information provided at:

Be aware that many of the WiFi routers sold for home use even just a few years ago could only support a few active links at the same time. Our first attempt maxed out with only ten connections, counting the JMRI computer. But we also have between ten and thirty members using WiThrottle to run their trains on an Ops Session night.

After several newer donated routers, we ended up purchasing a router aimed at the small to medium commercial business market. That was several years ago. But save that commitment until you notice the real need for it with error messages in your log file and/or slow or missing responses to your tablet tapping.

Since I am not a computer type person I would appreciate getting pointed in the right direction.Thanks.

It should be strongly suggested that you use cable to connect your JMRI computer to your WiFi router, mostly for eliminating doubt when trying to work on other puzzles. Also log onto your router and with each tablet connected, go through the list and select the option to used a fixed IP address rather than allowing "dynamic" addresses which increase the router's overhead. If or when you start using smartphones with EngineDriver (Android) or WiThrottle (iDevices), it would be to your advantage to also assign the fixed addresses too.

Be aware that the 2.4 GHz band that is the primary connection medium for most WiFi has a lot of energy absorbed by water molecules and that means human bodies.

Many layouts have a dedicated router in the same room with the trains. Connection to the Internet is not needed for operating your layout. The WiFi available in your home may be adequate unless there are some other family members doing heavy gaming or streaming. If you dedicate a single router in your layout area, keep it as high as is practical for good heat dissipation and as close as practical to the center of your layout.

If you have an "L" shaped room or overhead metal air ducts or your panel to router line of sight path has a lot of track in the way it may be worth the effort to find a local friend who understands the newer "mesh" implementations rather than a single router. The price on those things has dropped dramatically since we started our installation.

At least for the first few weeks look at each log\session.log file after each session and search for WARN and ERROR messages. This is good practice anyway, even without WiFi.

Cliff in Baja SoCal


 

I seem to be having the opposite UI benefit of many of the posters here. My personal experience of small touch screens is of having a consistent around 80% input error rate for keying. And any sort of precision adjustments in analog form seems to be an impossibility. I fall into the tall height category, so is there some kind of finger tip size limit that I exceed, that everything works OK below?

Andy

On 12/27/2018 7:16 AM, charles bassing via Groups.Io wrote:
Greetings and Happy Holidays to all! I want to control the turnouts/ routes in various yards on the layout with touch screen monitors. So far I have set up several panels in layout editor and have tested them. All good so far. I How envision using a small touch screen monitor at each end of double end yards to align the routes in and out of each of the yard tracks. I may need up to 12 such monitors. Will JMRI support this? All of the panels are open on my computer now, but how do I get the appropriate panel to appear on each of the monitors at the various yard locations? Since I am not a computer type person I would appreciate getting pointed in the right direction.Thanks.


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Andy,
It may be related to the panels you are trying to click. In my opinion, a panel that works well with a mouse on a large screen is likely to be a real pain on a tablet.
I would recommend designing a tablet panel to have fewer items, and much larger buttons, turnout circles,etc. Tracks should be farther apart. Etc.
--SteveT


 

I don't have a size problem on my iPad. Don't know if this applies to other tablets or not. My panel is about 1 screen high and 4 screens wide and I can slide the panel around very quickly with my fingertips. Same for expanding the view to gain more separation between the track elements. Just like viewing something on my iPhone.? I love it.
Paull D


 

The prototype requires 3 dimensional grabbing and pulling, rather than touch.

<>

I'm sure JMRI could input from a model of such.

Andy

On 12/27/2018 12:08 PM, Steve Todd wrote:
Andy,
It may be related to the panels you are trying to click. In my opinion, a panel that works well with a mouse on a large screen is likely to be a real pain on a tablet.
I would recommend designing a tablet panel to have fewer items, and much larger buttons, turnout circles,etc. Tracks should be farther apart. Etc.
--SteveT


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andy_r@...> wrote:

The prototype requires 3 dimensional grabbing and pulling, rather than touch.

<>

I'm sure JMRI could input from a model of such.
Show Quoted Content
On Dec 27, 2018, at 8:17 PM, Andy Reichert <andy_r@...> wrote:

The prototype requires 3 dimensional grabbing and pulling, rather than touch.

<>

I'm sure JMRI could input from a model of such.


Yes.

Use one of these:

They have electrical switch outputs, so you just connect those to JMRI as sensor inputs. ( I played with a few briefly at a National Train Show once. ?They are very nicely constructed).

There used to be another company ( hump yard purvayence ) making similar devices, but they may be out of business ( website isn¡¯t functional anyway ).

I also know of at least one train club here in Ohio that has a full sized Armstrong plant controlling the a model of the junction it once controlled. ?I think they used C/MRI for that, but I am not positive.

Paul


 

Thanks for the reminder.

I am just concerned that realistically modeling and operating trains (and using JMRI ) was becoming much more focused on having substituted wireless mobile 2D approximate simulations of operating stuff that would otherwise be physically real, at prototypically fixed locations, and much more realistic in appearance and function. The fact some of us don't get even the basic acceptable performance from mini touch things like cell phones and ipad screens, doesn't help.

The even better, and far less money, lever frames as kits, are available from the UK Scalefour Society.



Andy

Written 100% right the first time on a full size keyboard.? No voice wreck ignition soft wear was ewes duh!




On 12/27/2018 7:51 PM, Paul Bender wrote:

On Dec 27, 2018, at 8:17 PM, Andy Reichert < <x-apple-msg-load-wk2:2#>
andy_r@... <mailto:andy_r@...>> wrote:

The prototype requires 3 dimensional grabbing and pulling, rather than touch.

<>

I'm sure JMRI could input from a model of such.
Show Quoted Content
On Dec 27, 2018, at 8:17 PM, Andy Reichert <andy_r@... <mailto:andy_r@...>> wrote:

The prototype requires 3 dimensional grabbing and pulling, rather than touch.

<>

I'm sure JMRI could input from a model of such.

Yes.

Use one of these:


They have electrical switch outputs, so you just connect those to JMRI as sensor inputs. ( I played with a few briefly at a National Train Show once. ?They are very nicely constructed).

There used to be another company ( hump yard purvayence ) making similar devices, but they may be out of business ( website isn¡¯t functional anyway ).

I also know of at least one train club here in Ohio that has a full sized Armstrong plant controlling the a model of the junction it once controlled. ?I think they used C/MRI for that, but I am not positive.

Paul


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John Swanson
 

I've been using Android tablets for a couple years with much success.? Most of what I read in previous posts is right on.? I have as many as 19 panels available on about 10 tablets around the railroad, and the relative quality of the screen plays a large role in the success of the "touch to operate" process.? I'll spare you the details of how I arrived at Amazon Fire devices, but trust me when I recommend the 7 or 8 inch devices, that I've been able to acquire (new and/or refurbished) for as little at $35 - from Amazon!? Like others, I have older used devices, but the Fire is the best performer.? And I purchased a mesh system (Costco) to insure adequate wireless coverage for all devices. ??
Lastly, I will warn that to no surprise, the tablets are NOT a favorite of the folks who operate on my railroad.? Most of them will use the tablets, but they prefer push-buttons first, or throttle control of turnouts second.? Just saying....
Enjoy!


Lars Lemberg
 

John,
I am in the process of choosing touch screen devices to be positioned around my railroad. I will need about six devices, and I am interested in your details of how you arrived at Amazon Fire devices.
Lars


 

I think there are others interested in this too, I know I am.

a different John

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Lars Lemberg <larslemberg@...>
Date: December 29, 2018 at 10:16 AM


John,
I am in the process of choosing touch screen devices to be positioned
around my railroad. I will need about six devices, and I am interested in
your details of how you arrived at Amazon Fire devices.
Lars



 

Thanks, I hadn't thought about wireless. Are your devices mounted at various locations around the layout? How do you turn these on and off? That is, does each device have to be powered up individually? I would like to set up my local control panels to all fire up with a master switch.?


 

I picked up nine 3rd gen iPads for $50/each on eBay. Safari to JMRI works great.
Do make sure that they¡¯re not locked however; I did receive one that was (I reported it to Apple).


John Swanson
 

Lars, I started with an old Android tablet which acted as a "proof of concept" if you will.? I acquired a couple ~7" Android tablets from my local MicroCenter? for $30 each that were adequate (one got accidentally broken by an operator during an op session).? My wife replaced her first or 2nd generation Amazon Fire, giving it to me, and again it was a "proof of concept," in that Amazon uses a proprietary version of Android, including the Silk browser.? Even as an early generation, the display was cleaner and clearer than the MicroCenter devices.? So, when I saw an ad from Amazon for refurbished 7" Fires, I bought 2 at $35 each that turned out to be outstanding from a performance and screen basis. ? They clearly are of a quality far above their price point!? More recently, QVC sold me 2 - 8" Fire tablets for $99, and again, they are outstanding performers!
Charles, I stage my tablets at appropriate places around the layout and originally used them as primary or secondary control of Tortoise-powered turnouts via RR-CirKits MotorMan devices.? Operators also had the option of using Digitrax 400 or 500 throttles for turnout control.? They are checked for OS updates several days prior to an ops session, charged overnight, and staged the morning of. They operate on battery power, with the screens set to stay on, unless the power button is momentarily pressed.? The batteries last for the entire ~3 hour session, usually. ? I had determined early on (RR construction began in March of 2016 with ops session starting in August of 2017) that I would install fascia witch would include turnout control push-buttons and track diagrams.? Although the crews accepted the tablets or the throttles to control turnouts (their personal choice,) most if not all are happier with the setup where the fascia has been installed!?
John


 

I'm not sure what you are saying here.

Most operators actually prefer fascia static panels with HW push buttons?

The tables were temporary fix and you are going to install fascia panels eventually?

In the tablet/throttle situation, do you have multiple operators separately changing the same turnout?

Andy


On 12/31/2018 6:48 PM, John Swanson via Groups.Io wrote:
Lars, I started with an old Android tablet which acted as a "proof of concept" if you will.? I acquired a couple ~7" Android tablets from my local MicroCenter? for $30 each that were adequate (one got accidentally broken by an operator during an op session).? My wife replaced her first or 2nd generation Amazon Fire, giving it to me, and again it was a "proof of concept," in that Amazon uses a proprietary version of Android, including the Silk browser.? Even as an early generation, the display was cleaner and clearer than the MicroCenter devices.? So, when I saw an ad from Amazon for refurbished 7" Fires, I bought 2 at $35 each that turned out to be outstanding from a performance and screen basis. ? They clearly are of a quality far above their price point!? More recently, QVC sold me 2 - 8" Fire tablets for $99, and again, they are outstanding performers!
Charles, I stage my tablets at appropriate places around the layout and originally used them as primary or secondary control of Tortoise-powered turnouts via RR-CirKits MotorMan devices.? Operators also had the option of using Digitrax 400 or 500 throttles for turnout control.? They are checked for OS updates several days prior to an ops session, charged overnight, and staged the morning of. They operate on battery power, with the screens set to stay on, unless the power button is momentarily pressed.? The batteries last for the entire ~3 hour session, usually. ? I had determined early on (RR construction began in March of 2016 with ops session starting in August of 2017) that I would install fascia witch would include turnout control push-buttons and track diagrams.? Although the crews accepted the tablets or the throttles to control turnouts (their personal choice,) most if not all are happier with the setup where the fascia has been installed!
John



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