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The future of control and automation - thoughts?

 

All,
?I am still quite new to DCC model railroading - working on a trial N scale layout with about 18 blocks, 4 trains etc, controlled with JMRI etc.? THe learning curve, and some frustrations with Digitrax, loconet, and JMRI 'steep' learning curve have me wondering what the future (near and longer term) of control may look like?
(and I am a career chip design engineer currently trying to learn about AI topics for electronics design- so a bit of an electronics nerd).
?
So I am eager to hear from the prognosticators, naysayers, and visionaries on this group. Are there big technology changes coming in the near and mid term??
?
  • Bluetooth communications to all trains/rolling stock/sensors/lights - is IoT coming to the model trail world??
  • What about other ways to know where your trains are?? micro GPS locating? Has anyone done a system where one or more video cameras is used to look at the layout, using vision processing in real time? (sure seems like a task made for AI)??
  • And AI - is anyone using AI to write their JMRI scripts or otherwise control their layout??
  • How about lighting? I foresee doing an entire set up for lighting from a single strand of individually addressable LEDs (controlled by an Arduino perhaps) under my layout and running a fiber optic to each 'lighting point' up through the layout.. Is that done??
?
Perhaps I am being too geeky - I really like the real time operations and control challenges with this so far - and am just starting to think about the aesthetics - of scenery and themes.?
?
Thoughts? - or point me to the dark corners where this discussed!
-Peter
?
?
 

You should check out LCC (Layout Command Control):


/g/layoutcommandcontrol

This is a "network" of MCUs (and possibly SBCs) connected via a CAN (Community
Area Network), Ethernet, and WiFi. It is a peer-to-peer network meant to
operate autonomously (eg without "computer control" -- generally meaning with a
master central "PC" running JMRI or something like that).

At Tue, 18 Mar 2025 11:41:45 -0700 "peterparsons.pub via groups.io" <peterparsons.pub@...> wrote:


All,
I am still quite new to DCC model railroading - working on a trial N scale layout with about 18 blocks, 4 trains etc, controlled with JMRI etc.? THe learning curve, and some frustrations with Digitrax, loconet, and JMRI 'steep' learning curve have me wondering what the future (near and longer term) of control may look like
(and I am a career chip design engineer currently trying to learn about AI topics for electronics design- so a bit of an electronics nerd).

So I am eager to hear from the prognosticators, naysayers, and visionaries on this group. Are there big technology changes coming in the near and mid term?

* Bluetooth communications to all trains/rolling stock/sensors/lights - is IoT coming to the model trail world?
* What about other ways to know where your trains are?? micro GPS locating? Has anyone done a system where one or more video cameras is used to look at the layout, using vision processing in real time? (sure seems like a task made for AI)?
* And AI - is anyone using AI to write their JMRI scripts or otherwise control their layout?
* How about lighting? I foresee doing an entire set up for lighting from a single strand of individually addressable LEDs (controlled by an Arduino perhaps) under my layout and running a fiber optic to each 'lighting point' up through the layout.. Is that done?

Perhaps I am being too geeky - I really like the real time operations and control challenges with this so far - and am just starting to think about the aesthetics - of scenery and themes.

Thoughts? - or point me to the dark corners where this discussed!
-Peter






--
Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services
-- Linux Administration Services
heller@... -- Webhosting Services
 

Peter,
?
Just a couple of things I know about relating to some of your questions:
?
  • I believe Hornby have implemented Bluetooth control in some of their recent TT scale locomotives, using their HM7000 decoder
  • There is a project called 'EX-SensorCAM' that the DCCEX team are working on to use a camera watching a layout to provide the equivalent of block detection.? Have a look here:
  • I have personally used 2 x WiFi connected lights to provide scene ambient lighting (Night > Dawn > Morning > Midday > Afternoon > Dusk > Night) for my model railway layout.? Using 2 lamps (1 in the East and the other in the West) provides a shift in the light direction as well as varying the light intensity and colour.? I control the lighting via Jython scripts in JMRI, which sends data out of JMRI to control the lights.
  • One of the clubs I'm a member of has a string of W2812 style RGB LED strip for creating lighting effects controlled by an Arduino system.? This could be adjusted to be controlled from a DCC command station
  • The DCCEX project has recently included code to allow control of NeoPixel lights directly from the DCCEX command station, using their EXRAIL scripting system:
  • I believe some people have used AI to generate Jython code for JMRI, but (not having done this myself) I understand the AI generated code isn't perfect and needs some adjustment.? I have seen people post AI generated code in this group in the past.
So those are just some things I'm aware of that you might be interested in checking out.
?
Trevor.
 

CAN stands for "Controller Area Network," a peer-peer network standard.
?
-- Andy
 

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Don’t forget that Soundtraxx offer Bluetooth-controllable decoders as well.

But also remember that a lot of us like to drive the trains and operate the layout entirely manually. ?Automation holds absolutely no attention from me. ?

I’d also point out that a software controlled block detection which attempts to detect when a block ceases to be occupied by seeing the loco, and estimating block clearance by working with throttle setting and train length is bound to fail - derailed trains, split trains, train stopping in section, not moving at the expected speed, and so on. All of those are why the prototype would only rely on actual detections, and then fail safe. ?Isn’t it just easier and waaaaay faster and probably cheaper too, as well as more accurate and prototypical to add resistor wheel sets to the last vehicle in a train, typically a caboose/brake van or parlour car?

Mick
________________________________
Mick Moignard
Specialising in DCC Sound
m: +44 7774 652504

The week may start M,T but it always ends WTF.
 

At Wed, 19 Mar 2025 04:55:45 -0400 "Mick Moignard" <mick@...> wrote:

Don't forget that Soundtraxx offer Bluetooth-controllable decoders as well.

But also remember that a lot of us like to drive the trains and operate the
layout entirely manually. Automation holds absolutely no attention from me.
Sometimes it can be more interesting to have an additional train or two
operated "by the computer" along with the one mnually operated train.


I'd also point out that a software controlled block detection which attempts
to detect when a block ceases to be occupied by seeing the loco, and
estimating block clearance by working with throttle setting and train length
is bound to fail - derailed trains, split trains, train stopping in section,
not moving at the expected speed, and so on. All of those are why the
prototype would only rely on actual detections, and then fail safe. Isn't it
just easier and waaaaay faster and probably cheaper too, as well as more
accurate and prototypical to add resistor wheel sets to the last vehicle in
a train, typically a caboose/brake van or parlour car?
It is effectively prototypial to have "resistive" wheelsets, if you count a
solid steel axle as a "resistor"...


Mick
________________________________
Mick Moignard
Specialising in DCC Sound
m: +44 7774 652504

The week may start M,T but it always ends WTF.







--
Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services
-- Linux Administration Services
heller@... -- Webhosting Services
 

But also remember that a lot of us like to drive the trains and operate the layout entirely manually. Automation holds absolutely no attention from me.??
Same here. OperationsPro is my sole use of JMRI these days. (And occasionally DecoderPro, but mostly LokProgrammer)
?
So in that vein, I've begun to wonder if I could use AI (namely, v0.dev) to write code modifications for OpsPro to mold it more to my niche-prototype likings. Would love to have suggestions on how specifically to do so if anyone has any, as I'm willing to learn but would prefer not to if I can help it. Am the wrong kind of engineer by trade!
?
More to OP's original question, I think Bluetooth is the future (especially for loco-to-loco comms) but the current offerings (namely Blunami & RailPro) are neither mature nor featured enough to get me to switch from DCC.
?
Isaac
 

Regarding Bluetooth control:? is it possible to control more than 1 locomotive at the same time from a single throttle over Bluetooth with any of the current systems?? I don't have any experience with any of them.
?
Also, I'd just like to add that while some people certainly aren't interested in automatic operations - and that's fine - other people do like automation, and that's fine too.? I personally loved the challenge of setting up my layout so it could be operated fully manually, semi-automatically, or fully automatically, and enjoy using it in any of those modes depending on how I feel at the time.? That's the beauty of "My Railroad, My Rules", and the great thing about the flexibility of JMRI.
?
Cheers,
Trevor.
 

Speaking of WS2812 3-color LED controller IC's, RR-CirKits offers an LCC-based signal controller for their "Simple Serial?Signal Bus" that controls signal LEDs using these inexpensive IC's!
?
Even if signals & switch controllers were wireless, you'd still have to wire power to them.
?
And while controlling track switches via the DCC track bus, using stationary decoders, simplifies and saves wiring, running a train against such a switch would short out both the track and the means by which to rectify the problem from the throttle/panel.
?
-- Andy
 

With tiny cameras in our phones, and AI, and ever higher integration, someday soon it should be possible to have a camera in every loco, and have it run on clear track, obey signals if they are used, and stop short of other trains or end of track.

I enjoy running my trains manually, but my loop to loop railroad doesn't lend itself to having a train or two run in the background while I switch (shunt) cars or change motive power. The railroad is much more enjoyable when more than one train runs, in my opinion. But, I make mistakes when I try to run two or three at a time by myself.


--
Don Weigt
Connecticut
 

Hi Peter,
?
In addition to the ideas that have already been mentioned, you might want to check out Hans Tanner's IOTT channel. He is exploring some very interesting ideas.
?
?
As has been mentioned, the DCC-EX folks are doing interesting things.
?
Both are using low-cost off-the-shelf hardware components (and using other industry standard communication tools, etc) as part of software-defined products. IMHO this is the right strategy and the one that holds the most promise for the future.
?
?
- John Geddes
Vancouver, Canada
Group Moderator
 

Topics in this group need to be JMRI related and this topic is really pushing that. Please keep that in mind when responding.
 

Oh - Sorry if I cracked open a topic beyond the intended scope - though it starts with what I am learning in JMRI. And I will say I have learned a great deal from the responses here - and thank everyone for indulging the 'general' topic! I continue to be encouraged on everything from running trains manually to the most advanced topics of JMRI -and beyond!?
-Roll on :-)?
-peter
?
 

Although a few responces may have veered slightly off track I believe this thread is JMRI related.? The future of train detection will effect the future of JMRI.? ?Obviously automation is not as big in US but it is much more prevalent in Europe.? Check out MERG ?Model Electronic Railway Group? This thread also turned me on to camera detection which I find fascinating.? I have been following IOTT and gps detection.? Keep up the great work to all of you.? Thank you!

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