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how to deliver a car from Yard to Spur in the same Location

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Martin Wade All Messages By This Member #238600 I have 3 towns (1 train per town) that I want the cars returned to the Yard Track first and then the local switcher to move the car to the Freight Terminal Spur.? Both the Yard Track and the Freight Terminal Spur are in the same Location "Gldn Yard".? I also have an Industrial Location with several spurs also serviced by the Local Switcher.? The Switcher does move cars from the Yard to/from the Industrial area.? It will also move cars from the Industrial Location Tracks directly to the Freight Terminal Track.? ?But will not move between the Yard and the Freight Terminal Spur.? I am guessing because they are in the same Location.? Is their a build option to make this work? ? Thanks, ? Martin Wade HMR Railway
Dan Boudreau All Messages By This Member #238605 Martin, ? What does the? build report say about the car moving from the Yard and the Freight Terminal spur?? Attach the build report to your next reply. ? Dan
[email protected] All Messages By This Member #238615 Without knowing your details I have a similar situation which I solved my changing the location of the spurs by adding -1 to the location. ?It prints without the suffix so it looks the same but is handled as a separate place allowing a separate route.?
Martin Wade All Messages By This Member #238690 Sorry for the long delay in response.? Was tied up with activities outside my train room. Attached is the Build Report I have 4 cars of type "Box Proc Ore".? ?Numbers 7,8,9,10.? ?7 and 8 are L load and 9 and 10 are E Load.? ?They are all currently sitting in the Location "MP08 NG Golden Yard" on Track "NG Golden Yard". Also in location "MP08 NG Golden Yard" is track "NG Gldn Freight Xfer".? It is set to accept load = "Box Proc Ore: L".? ?And it is set to only accept Train "Golden Local".? ? In my theory (could be totally wrong), the other Trains would deliver to the Yard Track and then the Local would move to the Freight Xfer Track.?? I see the other post by @traindoc which seems to confirm one of the errors in my theory which was the main question of my original post. How do you move a car from one track to another at the same location. @traindoc solution.? ?Add a location of "MP08 NG Golden Yard -1" which to JMRI is a new location but in printouts will print as the same location.? ?Which implies that you can't move a car between tracks in the same location.? This solution would use the "Local" to make moves including inside the Yard.? ?It would create this move as part of the Local Train Manifest and/or Switchlist.? ?I think this works for my scenario. Use of a JMRI defined Yard Switcher?? ?If this is a solution, I don't know how to set this up.? ?Do you actually set up a train and make sure you use a loco that is of type Switcher and then make sure the Build options are set right for a Switcher.? Which I didn't see Allow Yard to Spur as an option. Use of a non defined Switcher just to complete the moves of any train coming into the yard.? In this case remove the limitation "Accept Train Golden Local" from the Freight Transfer Track and also change the Yard to accept only Empty Box Proc Ore cars.? ?This would force all Loaded Box Proc Cars to assign to the Freight Xfer.? ?Then even though the manifest for the Branch trains have this for a designation, they would deliver all the cars to the Yard Track (most likely an Arrival Track) and the local Yard Switcher would move the Box Proc Ore cars to the Freight Xfer track.? ?This would really be the same for the Caboose, Rip, MOW, and other similar tracks in the Yard area.? ?For the Branch trains they are simply delivering to a Yard Arrival Track and the Yard Switcher finishes the moves to all the designated Yard tracks.? ?This appears to be a common strategy for Yards.? ?I do see one caution is that for JMRI the Trains should NOT be terminated until the Switcher finishes the moves so that the cars are truly at their destinations. Am really hoping someone can confirm if I identified the 3 "strategy" options reasonably accurate above and any other considerations.? ?I find that their are lots of "strategy" options (ways to skin a cat) in JMRI Operations.? ?Each seemingly with Pros and Cons. ? And back to Dan, I attached the Build List.? I believe the excerpt below is the key indicator.? ?I also noticed I got a "warning" but I'm not sure why and I don't understand why.? Is that because its "partial" meaning it had capacity to take more cars/moves? ? Box Proc Ore Car # 7 Excerpt ? ?Find destinations for (CS 7) type (Box Proc Ore) load (L) at yard (MP08? ? ?NG Golden Yard, NG Golden Yard)? ? ?Searching location (MP12 NG Gldn Industrial) route id 7r2 for possible? ? ?destination? ? ? Car (CS 7) type (Box Proc Ore) isn't serviced by destination (MP12 NG? ? ? Gldn Industrial)? ? ? Car (CS 7) can be serviced later from location (MP08 NG Golden Yard)? ? ? route id 7r4? ? ?Searching location (MP08 NG Golden Yard) route id 7r4 for possible? ? ?destination? ? ? Car (CS 7) location is equal to destination (MP08 NG Golden Yard)? ? ? skipping this destination? ? ?Did not assign a destination for car (CS 7)? ? Warning message: Partial 0/7 cars at location (MP08 NG Golden Yard) assigned to train? ?(Golden Local)? ?Partial 6/15 cars? ?Build report for train (Golden Local) has 1 warnings? ? Actual Manifest HMR RailWay ? Manifest for train (Golden Local) Valid 4/03/1950 08:00 ? Scheduled work at MP08 NG Golden Yard, departure time 14:00 ?[ ] Pick up CS ? ? 18 ? ? Caboose ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?from NG Gldn Caboose ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ?[ ] Pick up CS ? ? 1 ? ? ?Box ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? L ? ? ?from NG Gldn Freight Xfer ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[ ] Pick up PRR ? ?78579 ?Box ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? E ? ? ?from NG Golden Yard ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[ ] Pick up CS ? ? 2 ? ? ?Box ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? L ? ? ?from NG Golden Yard ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Train departs MP08 NG Golden Yard Westbound with 4 cars, 166 feet, 205 tons ? Scheduled work at MP12 NG Gldn Industrial, arrival time 14:04 ?[ ] Pick up CS ? ? 15 ? ? HopCoal ? ? ? ? ? ? L ? ? ?from NG Gldn Fuel Supply Coal ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[ ] Pick up CS ? ? 12 ? ? HopCoal ? ? ? ? ? ? L ? ? ?from NG Gldn Fuel Supply Coal ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[ ] Set out PRR ? ?78579 ?Box ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? E ? ? ?to NG Gldn Gen Manufacturer ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[ ] Set out CS ? ? 1 ? ? ?Box ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? L ? ? ?to NG Gldn Hardware & Lumber ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ?[ ] Set out CS ? ? 2 ? ? ?Box ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? L ? ? ?to NG Gldn Hardware & Lumber ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? Train departs MP12 NG Gldn Industrial Westbound with 3 cars, 122 feet, 179 tons ? Scheduled work at MP08 NG Golden Yard, arrival time 14:23 ?[ ] Set out CS ? ? 18 ? ? Caboose ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?to NG Gldn Caboose ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ?[ ] Set out CS ? ? 15 ? ? HopCoal ? ? ? ? ? ? L ? ? ?to NG Gldn Yard Coal ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ?[ ] Set out CS ? ? 12 ? ? HopCoal ? ? ? ? ? ? L ? ? ?to NG Golden Yard ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Train terminates in MP08 NG Golden Yard ? Thanks for any advice on all this. Martin Wade HMR Railway train _Report Golden Local_ JMRI Move Problem.txt train _Report Golden Local_ JMRI Move Problem.txt train _Golden Local_.txt train _Golden Local_.txt
Eric Coughlan All Messages By This Member #238691 Martin, ? A couple of quick questions - 1. In your Route definition, is the MP08 NG Golden Yard set to allow both pickups and setouts at the start of the route? I had a similar problem which was caused by only having pickups in the starting location, so moves were not available. Changing the route to allow both pickups and setouts at the starting location allowed the moves to happen. ? 2. Also, is the spur track NG Gldn Freight Xfer defined to be serviced by westbound trains? The schedule extract indicates that the local runs westbound from MP08 NG Golden Yard to MP12 NG Gldn Industrial, so if the spur is defined to be serviced by Eastbound trains, it will not be serviced as your train only runs westbound. ? Eric
Martin Wade All Messages By This Member #238692 Hi Eric, ? Answers: 1.? ?Yes to both Setouts and pickups in Golden Yard at both start and end of route. 2.? ?Yes both East and West for Direction on Track. ? I had made both of those mistakes in other places but at this point, I believe I have them all corrected.? ?Those are verified above. Thanks Martin Wade HMR Railway ?
Dan Boudreau All Messages By This Member #238696 On Sun, Jan 12, 2025 at 02:18 PM, Martin Wade wrote: Car (CS 7) type (Box Proc Ore) isn't serviced by destination (MP12 NG? ? ? Gldn Industrial)? You've told the program to not allow a car type "Box Proc Ore" at " MP12 NG Gldn Industrial" You need to select that car type and which track are allowed to receive that car type. Dan
Pete Johnson All Messages By This Member #238697 Martin, ? You stated in your first post that... I have 3 towns (1 train per town) Drawing from info in the build report for the Golden Local, I see 4 trains listed for routing possibilities. ? ? 1. Train (Black Hawk Mixed Turn)? ? ? 2. Train (Black Hawk Ore Turn)? ? ? 3. Train (Golden Local)? ? ? 4. Train (Idaho Springs Mixed Turn)? Since you have designated these as the only trains allowed to route movements, the program "warns" you that you have restricted your routing options...(hence the WARNING) ? ? But back to the goal of your post... Should we conclude that you want the Golden Local to take cars that arrive from either Idaho Springs or Black Hawk, and spot them to the Freight Xfer or to industries (in the Industrial area)? ? Since you are using the default E and L for your cars, you can make use of the "Switcher Service (Local)" option, and create a train that only serves "MP08 NG Golden Yard". ? This will allow you to fulfill your theory... In my theory (could be totally wrong), the other Trains would deliver to the Yard Track and then the Local would move to the Freight Xfer Track.? Pay close attention to the paragraph labelled "Switcher Restrictions", as it details the limitations on some car movements between certain tracks. ? Now again, from your build report, I see where you currently have the Golden Local visit more than one location. ?This is how most trains are set up and differs from the concept above of the JMRI "Switcher". ?This train "moves" from MP08 to MP12 and serves the tracks at both those locations... ? Tracks at MP08 Golden Yard (perhaps these aren't all of them), NG Gldn Loco Shed NG Gldn Yard RIP NG Gldn MOW NG Gldn Yard Ash NG Gldn Yard Coal NG Gldn Freight Xfer NG Gldn Caboose NG Golden Yard ? And the apparent tracks at MP12 (again, perhaps not all), NG Gldn Livestock NG Gldn Fuel Supply Tank NG Gldn Gen Manufacturer NG Gldn Fuel Supply Coal NG Gldn Feed & Seed NG Gldn Hardware & Lumber ? I believe you could create a new train (perhaps called "Golden Switch") and have it's route consist of only "MP08 NG Golden Yard" (allow both pickups and setouts). ? ?Then, if you wanted the Freight Xfer track to have cars moved "locally" from the yard track and back, remove the direction options for that track and only the new train (Golden Switch) could work it.? ?Currently, this local move is prevented because the Golden Local isn't a JMRI "Switcher" (because it visits 2 or more locations). ? Because of the way you have things now, you could also manually give your cars final destinations for the Freight Xfer track and the program should recognize that and allow the Golden Local to move any cars so designated (this is the role of the train option you have selected, labelled "Allow local moves if car has a custom load or FD"). ? So try out some of these ideas and see what transpires, and of course, let us know! ? Happy to help, hope it helps <Pete Johnson>
Martin Wade All Messages By This Member #238699 This gives me lots to explore and caught several of my errors: I used the term switcher but in JMRI terms it was a local (served 2 locations).? I never defined a "switcher" in JMRI terms so it wouldn't switch the one location.? ?You also answered my question of how do you define a switcher:? Setup a train for just one location.? I will check out your link.? I don't think on my first read through the help manual, I really understood what this was.? ?I also never thought of if you were doing two locations you couldn't switch locally too.? For my NG small town it wasn't uncommon to switch the yard and the local industries with one crew/loco.? ?Now with your explanation of JMRI terms,? I will check out. I do have a limited number of trains, hence the warning.? This is a Narrow Gauge Railroad so most towns only had one train.? I can see in large scale operations this would be abnormal hence the warning.? I can ignore that for my railroad. A switcher in just one location does not have direction.? ?You stated to turn off the direction so other trains could not deliver here.? I would not have thought of that.? ? ? You have filled in many gaps in my "theory" which translates to my learning JMRI.? Thanks very much for the posts. ? ? To Dan, my Freight Xfer is in the Yard and not in the Industrial area so the Box Proc Ore does not have a destination in the Industrial.? Its back in the yard.? ?But as per the comments above my misuse of terminology, I'm sure was causing lots of confusion. ? Thanks to everyone as there is so much to learn here. ? Martin Wade HMR Railway ?
Dan Boudreau All Messages By This Member #238700 On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 08:29 AM, Martin Wade wrote: To Dan, my Freight Xfer is in the Yard and not in the Industrial area so the Box Proc Ore does not have a destination in the Industrial.? Its back in the yard.? ?But as per the comments above my misuse of terminology, I'm sure was causing lots of confusion. The program by default doesn't allow local moves when a train is servicing more than one location.? You need to tell the program you want them.? There are several ways, the easiest is to use a schedule at a spur that sends the car to the track you want.? You don't need to use custom loads. The help for schedules. ? ? The program when shipping a car via a schedule destination uses classification/interchange tracks to figure out which trains to use. ? The other way to route a car is to use the division feature.? Cars assigned a division move in a predictable way.? Here's the link to the help: ? ? You can mix divisions and schedules. ? Dan
Martin Wade All Messages By This Member #238717 Thanks Dan, ? That gives me even more to explore.? Now all I need is time.? ?And I'm sure as I solve this problem, I will be uncovering a few more but I think Schedules is going to help me with some of those as well.? It was going to be my next step.? ? ? Thanks again for all the help and pointers. ? Martin Wade HMR Railway
Martin Wade All Messages By This Member #238718 I successfully got a "JMRI" Switcher setup and working the Yard Tracks.? ?This Switcher is now working the Freight Xfer, MOW, Yard Coaling Tower, and Ash Pit while the Way Freight Turns for Idaho Springs and Black Hawk locations deliver only to the Yard Track.? ?All of those tracks are in the Gldn Yard Location. The Industrial Turn moves cars from the Yard Track to the local Industries in Gldn Industrial Location. I also am getting better at reading the Build sheets where I corrected several Track Car Type Selections and a couple Accept Load Selections. After running a "weeks" worth of Builds with Terminates to move the cars I can see where my traffic is slow either by Train Capacity or by too many moves (not enough trains per day).? Specifically, I am going to try running the Switcher and Industrial Turn twice a day.? ?Other option would be more cars, especially on the Ore Train.? ? On a roll.... ? Thanks again for the help, ? Martin Wade HMR Railway

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