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Billybob,



You are correct in that Mike B does not provide much electronics. His forte
is the casted metal levers and plates. Likewise Rick R provides the molded
plastic reproduction parts. They do however, recommend parts that you can
buy from most electronic suppliers.



Several years ago Rick suggested the Alpha 10YD062 rotary switch available
from www.Mouser.com It has been replaced by 105-SR2511F-62FN. Unfortunately
the min on this is 1000. Although the cut over is at 30 degrees it is a
multi-position and 2 clicks get 60 deg. Not perfect.



However, the 105-SR2511F-62FN is a Grayhill single deck 2 position SPDT,
rated at 200 ma, 28V, DC 115VAC, with a 60 degree rotation. Only $11.58 in
single quantities. From there prices go up. It has a lug connection but not
easily soldered. The data sheet shows a solder lug style available.



For controlling signals you will need a 3 position switch. Grayhill
105-SR2511F-62FN is similar in a 3 position. Same price.



I have not taken the time to do an exhaustive search of Mouser to find the
perfect match but it may be there amongst the many parts that they have. If
you come up with something let us know. As I get some time I will search, as
I have plans to build a reproduction CTC machine (USS&S).



Mark Juett



From: jmriusers@... [mailto:jmriusers@...]
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 11:01 PM
To: jmriusers@...
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Panel hardware





There are some limits to what CTCParts.com can provide.

CTCParts.com specializes in the "plates" one uses on a CTC machine. This is
where Mike's product offerings excel.

In general, Mike doesn't offer much in the way of electronics things like
rotary switches, pushbuttons, or lamps. One exception is a pushbutton which
mimics the "feel" of a US&S pushbutton.

What are the alternatives?

For these "common" electronics components, your best bet is likely to be a
general-purpose electronics supplier. In the US, some suppliers include
Mouser.com, Digikey.com, All-electronics.com.

Rotary switches with 60 degree rotation (for US&S machines) or 90 degree
rotation (for GRS machines) can be tough to find off-the-shelf. They do show
up occasionally. And Mouser and Digikey have often "mis-cataloged" a
manufacturer's parts as 30 degree when they really were 60 degree or 90
degree, so it helps to spend the time looking at manufacturer's specs for
the various part numbers cataloged by the supplier.

Last time I looked, Digikey and Mouser did not have any stock for 60
degree-indexed switches, but could provide 60 degree rotary switches for
orders of 2000 parts.

Tomar Inc., of Benton Harbor, MI, provides (or provided) some cast-brass
inserts which can be used in some "open" styles of commercial rotary
switches to convert a 30 degree-indexed rotary switch to 60 degree indexing
or 90 degree indexing. Tomar also has produced US&S-like "knobs", but I
think that they no longer produce the knobs.

An alternative is to purchase "Alpha" brand enclosed 30 degree-indexed
rotary switches, and modify for 60 degree or 90 degree indexing. I've done
this by filling in one or two consecutive "indents" in the rotary switch
shell with epoxy. The trick is to open the thing without losing the spring
or ball-bearings. And to put the spring and bearings back into the shell and
reassemble it, without losing the parts.

I do not have any particular recommendations for lampholders/bezels/lenses
or for pushbuttons.

Regards,
Billybob

What about for pushbuttons? Those tiny ones that are around are very
unreliable.




On 8/7/2017 4:24 PM, 'Mark Juett' modelrailroadbuilder@...
[jmriusers] wrote:

Billybob,

You are correct in that Mike B does not provide much electronics. His
forte
is the casted metal levers and plates. Likewise Rick R provides the molded
plastic reproduction parts. They do however, recommend parts that you can
buy from most electronic suppliers.

Several years ago Rick suggested the Alpha 10YD062 rotary switch available
from www.Mouser.com It has been replaced by 105-SR2511F-62FN.
Unfortunately
the min on this is 1000. Although the cut over is at 30 degrees it is a
multi-position and 2 clicks get 60 deg. Not perfect.

However, the 105-SR2511F-62FN is a Grayhill single deck 2 position SPDT,
rated at 200 ma, 28V, DC 115VAC, with a 60 degree rotation. Only $11.58 in
single quantities. From there prices go up. It has a lug connection
but not
easily soldered. The data sheet shows a solder lug style available.

For controlling signals you will need a 3 position switch. Grayhill
105-SR2511F-62FN is similar in a 3 position. Same price.

I have not taken the time to do an exhaustive search of Mouser to find the
perfect match but it may be there amongst the many parts that they
have. If
you come up with something let us know. As I get some time I will
search, as
I have plans to build a reproduction CTC machine (USS&S).

Mark Juett

From: jmriusers@... [mailto:jmriusers@...]
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 11:01 PM
To: jmriusers@...
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Panel hardware

There are some limits to what CTCParts.com can provide.

CTCParts.com specializes in the "plates" one uses on a CTC machine.
This is
where Mike's product offerings excel.

In general, Mike doesn't offer much in the way of electronics things like
rotary switches, pushbuttons, or lamps. One exception is a pushbutton
which
mimics the "feel" of a US&S pushbutton.

What are the alternatives?

For these "common" electronics components, your best bet is likely to be a
general-purpose electronics supplier. In the US, some suppliers include
Mouser.com, Digikey.com, All-electronics.com.

Rotary switches with 60 degree rotation (for US&S machines) or 90 degree
rotation (for GRS machines) can be tough to find off-the-shelf. They
do show
up occasionally. And Mouser and Digikey have often "mis-cataloged" a
manufacturer's parts as 30 degree when they really were 60 degree or 90
degree, so it helps to spend the time looking at manufacturer's specs for
the various part numbers cataloged by the supplier.

Last time I looked, Digikey and Mouser did not have any stock for 60
degree-indexed switches, but could provide 60 degree rotary switches for
orders of 2000 parts.

Tomar Inc., of Benton Harbor, MI, provides (or provided) some cast-brass
inserts which can be used in some "open" styles of commercial rotary
switches to convert a 30 degree-indexed rotary switch to 60 degree
indexing
or 90 degree indexing. Tomar also has produced US&S-like "knobs", but I
think that they no longer produce the knobs.

An alternative is to purchase "Alpha" brand enclosed 30 degree-indexed
rotary switches, and modify for 60 degree or 90 degree indexing. I've done
this by filling in one or two consecutive "indents" in the rotary switch
shell with epoxy. The trick is to open the thing without losing the spring
or ball-bearings. And to put the spring and bearings back into the
shell and
reassemble it, without losing the parts.

I do not have any particular recommendations for lampholders/bezels/lenses
or for pushbuttons.

Regards,
Billybob

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for the information guys, much appreciated. Jerry Michels

Mark,

could you please provide the correct part numbers for the switches you referenced? You have shown the same part number for 3 different switches.

Thanks,

Dale Gloer

Dale,

Here's my results from about 45 minutes work at the Mouser web site, looking only at "Alpha" rotary switches, and double-checking the part number versus the manufacturer's description. I appologize in advance for any typos. All were listed as "in-stock" when I looked these up today:

Mouser 105-SR2511F-43RN : Alpha P/N SR2511F-0403-19R0B-E9-N-W-159 - open style suitable for US&S 2-position lever, using Tomar "slug"; metric mounting.

Mouser 105-SR2511F-25NS : Alpha P/N SR2511F-0205-19R0B-E9-N-W-159 - open style suitable for US&S 3-position lever, using Tomar "slugs"; metric mounting.

Mouser 105-SR2512F-43NS : Alpha P/N SR2511F-0403-19R0B-E9-N-W-159 - open style suitable for US&S 2-position lever, using Tomar "slug"; metric mounting.

Mouser 105-SR2511F-25S : Alpha P/N SR2511F-0205-19R0B-E9-S-W-159 - open style suitable for US&S 3-position lever, using Tomar "slugs"; metric mounting - note that this is a "shorting" switch!

Mouser 105-SR2511F-43S : Alpha P/N SR2511F-0403-19R0B-E9-S-W-159 - open style suitable for US&S 2-position lever, using Tomar "slug"; metric mouting - note that this is a "shorting" switch!

Mouser 105-SR2511F-17S : Alpha P/N SR2511F-0107-19R0B-E9-S-W-159 - open style suitable for GRS 3-position lever, using Tomar "slugs"; metric mounting - note that this is a "shorting" switch!

Mouser 105-SR2612F-26-21RN : Alpha P/N SR2612F-0206-21R0B-D8-N - enclosed style suitable for US&S 2- and 3-position lever, or GRS 2-position lever; imperial mouting - requires internal modifications!

Mouser 105-SR2612F-26-21RN : Alpha P/N SR2612F-0206-21R0B-D8-N - enclosed style suitable for US&S 2- and 3-position lever, or GRS 2-position lever; imperial mouting - requires internal modifications!

Mouser 105-SR2611F-12-21RS : Alpha P/N SR2611F-0112-21R0B-D8-S - enclosed style suitable for US&S 2- and 3-position lever, or GRS 2-position or 3-position lever; internal modification required - requires a specialty "stop" washer which may not be provided and I have not seen such a washer purchasable separately.

Assumptions:

. Want a round shaft, since the flat will likely not line up with the knob screw for an obvious orientation of the switch

. require a 1/4" shaft, not a 6mm shaft

. "open" style switches require the correct number of positions, at 30-degree indexing, for the desired number of 60-degree- or 90-degree-indexed positions.

. "enclosed" style switches do not require at least the minimum number of positions, at 30-degree indexing, for the desired number of 60-degree- or 90-degree-indexed positions, and the number of "poles" cannot prevent unique identification of lever position when in position at any of the the 60-degree- or 90-degree indexed positions.

. pin connection isn't critical. FYI - SR2511 and SR2611 have "wire lugs" and SR2612 has "pc-board" pins.


Hope this helps.

Regards,
Billybob

Billybob,



Nice bit of research. However, for any of the circuits I’ve seen for CTC
panels, you always want break before make types. Next is ?” shaft vs 6mm
shaft is less than a 1/64” difference, so most knobs will not notice the
difference (if they are 1/4” designs), the set screws can deal with that.



As for flats on the shafts or keyed mounting hardware, I’ve found most MR
types seem to be rather heavy handed!! So having mounting hardware that will
prevent twisting the switch itself is important. The flat on the shaft is
critical to keep the knob in the right place, but this is easy after
installation with a couple of passes of a file on the shaft if it wasn’t
equipped in the first place.



Note: We’d need to check about the knobs themselves to see if they are round
or if they have an internal flat to match. That would be important to know.



-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team

www.jmri.org

www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org

www.cnymod.com

www.syracusemodelrr.org







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ken,

Unless I reported otherwise, the switches I listed were "non-shorting" switches. But if you are using a 30-degree-indexed switch for a 60-degree-indexing or a 90-degree-indexing application, then the question of shorting vs. non-shorting contacts is really irrelevant. For such an application, there will always be at least one (unused) contact between any two used contacts. So I would consider switches with "shorting" contacts if equivalent switches with "non-shorting" contacts were unavailable.

Most of the switches I reported have 6mm shafts (and metric mountings). Some had 1/4" shafts (and imperial mountings). I was focusing on what's available at Mouser that could be usable.

I figure that a flat is usually needed, but what orientation does it have versus a position? Well, that depends on how the switch is mounted. That gets tricky when mounting a 60-degree-indexed switch in a panel; where does the anti-twist "pin" hole get oriented in the mast with respect to the mounting hole? I don't know, and cannot really guess. So I assumed that the user will add a flat, once he knows exactly what switch orientation is used on the panel and the position of the set-screws on the lever. The switches with flats are available from the manufacturer with flats at any of four angles, but I cannot guess which is correct for a given install.

Even if the lever casting is cast for an internal flat, the user can always file down the round shaft to add the appropriate flat, and even get it in the position he/she likes.

Want a manufactured flat on the shaft? Do the research and make your choice. I'm not giving away any more of my time on this subject.

Regards,
Billybob