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Experimental "Flatpak" distribution of JMRI
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Bad idea: Flatpak will create the desktop entries with icons.
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And Flatpak run itself the applications in an isolated environment. User should not run outside of flatpak the JMRI applications installed by Flatpak. It must be started from the desktop entries. Or, if the user really really want, with the command line "flatpak run --command". "Dave Sand" <ds@...> writes: Dave, |
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Hello. Flatpak packager here.
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# Installation and usage of JMRI Flatpak on Linux Mint Cinammon 21.3 So, I have tested on a fresh installation of Linux Mint Cinammon 21.3 and I can confirm that the system do not know what to do with the Flatpak bundle file. Which is strange, because the application manager of Mint Cinammon 21.3 can install Flatpak package from Flathub. So, I guess the installation on this version of Mint would not require the terminal when JMRI would be on Flathub. But after installing the Flatpak bundle of JMRI, I can now start the different JMRI applications from the start menu of Mint. I just searched "JMRI" and I can see the applications and launch them. So, on Linux Mint Cinammon 21.3: * The installation is a bit rough, due to Linux Mint, I will open a bug report about it * It would be "1 click button" to install when JMRI would be on Flathub * After installation, you can launch the applications from the Start menu * I could successfully uninstall JMRI from the application manager of Mint. # Installation and usage of JMRI Flatpak on Linux Mint Cinammon 22.1 I also tested with the latest version I can found of Linux Mint Cinammon: 22.1 This version of Mint still did not recognize the .flatpak file. I still could install other Flatpak application with the application manager. Installation of JMRI on Mint would not need the terminal when JMRI would be published on Flathub. After installation of JMRI, I could also launch the JMRI applications from the Start menu. But I couldn't uninstall JMRI from the application manager: It didn't found JMRI. Another bug report to open to Mint. # Launching the JMRI applications Flatpak is not only a archive containing the applications: It run the applications in an isolated environment. You are not supposed to go on the installation directory and run the applications from there. You must start the applications from the Start menu. And if you really really want to use the command line: /usr/bin/flatpak run --command=/app/share/JMRI/PanelPro org.jmri.JMRI To run the PanelPro. Or replace the "PanelPro" with the application you want. "Sandpiper via groups.io" <sandpiper270.dm@...> writes: I just tried the flatpak. I am using Linux Mint Cinammon 21.3. The URL did not start any flatpak installer, it just downloaded the file. |
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Hello. Flatpak packager here.
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What problem did you encounter听? The Flatpak version install a .desktop file for each JMRI application. Then, these applications appear in your desktop menu. From which you can launch them. It is not needed to run the scripts from the command line. Or maybe I听did not understand what problem(s) do you encounter with the Flatpak version. "Jim Albanowski via groups.io" <jimalbanowski@...> writes: Linux Crew: |
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Hello. Flatpak packager here.
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The actual installation method with Java require to run command lines and could still have problems. In the past, I听got multiple time JMRI telling me that it didn't found the X server or things like that. It's not a trivial thing to do. Or at least, not for every one. By packaging JMRI with Flatpak and distribute a copy in Flathub, on any Linux distribution with Flatpak managed properly, a user could install it by simply clicking the [Install] button. For the different architecture support, it will come later. Best regards. "Robert Heller via groups.io" <heller@...> writes: This seems like a "solution looking for a problem", at least for *Linux*. |
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Thank you Dave Sand.听听听
听
In looking back at my reply above, I see that I have a mistake.听 It isn't JMRI that needs to be a member of the dial-out group, it is the user.听 So if that user were just upgrading using a flatpak, then they would already have been a member of that group, and it would work.
听
Dave Morgan |
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Hello. Flatpak packager here.
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Thank you for your testing. From what I understand, the Flatpak would just be an option. That you could download from the JMRI website or, later, from Flathub. That mean directly from any Linux Application Manager, if it use Flathub as a repository. For now, the Flatpak package is only for x86_64 because of the java runtime who is for this architecture. I plan to make other versions for different architecture later. Or a multi architecture version if it's possible. "splasher" <steve@...> writes: As long as it is an additional option for Linux users. I run RPi and it is super easy right now to rename the existing JMRI folder and extract the |
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Dave, Once you find the JMRI install location, you can run "./CreateJmriApps.sh -d" to create the desktop icons and start menu entries. Dave Sand ----- Original message ----- From: "Sandpiper via groups.io" <sandpiper270.dm=[email protected]> Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Experimental "Flatpak" distribution of JMRI Date: Saturday, April 05, 2025 10:26 PM I just tried the flatpak.听 I am using Linux Mint Cinammon 21.3.听 The URL did not start any flatpak installer, it just downloaded the file.听 听 After downloading the flatpak to my download folder, I tried to right click it to install it.听 There was no program associated with it to install it, even though I have flatpaks installed on my system.听听 I asked chatGPT how to install it, and got some directions on how to open a terminal window, navigate to where the download file was, and then install it.听 After some fussing, I was able to do that.听 I didn't get any indication that it worked, but doing 'flatpak list', I was able to see it was installed. 听 There was nothing in the Start menu that would let me run it.听 I didn't know where it would be on my system, since I am not used to manually dealing with flatpaks.听 Using 'which JMRI', or any other name I could think of, did not show anything like that installed.听听 ChatGPT told me that if I ran 'flatpak run org.jmri.JMRI' in a terminal window, then it would run.听 When I did that, DecoderPro opened up.听听 I never use DecoderPro, always use PanelPro.听 I didn't see any way to make it open to that. 听 I finally found where on my system it was installed.听听 It was in my home directory at ~/.local/share/flatpak/app/org.jmri.JMRI/current/active/files/share/JMRI.听 By navigating there with the Nemo file manager, I found PanelPro and DecoderPro, and could start them. 听 That is my experience, it was a bit painful.听 Much easier to just install the java that you want, and also JMRI.听听 Assuming the flatpak can be made to 'just work' for the install, I would think for the new user, it will fail to connect to an external DCC system, such as the NCE PowerCab I have here at the laptop, because JMRI isn't a member of the dialout group. 听 Dave Morgan |
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I just tried the flatpak.听 I am using Linux Mint Cinammon 21.3.听 The URL did not start any flatpak installer, it just downloaded the file.听
听
After downloading the flatpak to my download folder, I tried to right click it to install it.听 There was no program associated with it to install it, even though I have flatpaks installed on my system.听听 I asked chatGPT how to install it, and got some directions on how to open a terminal window, navigate to where the download file was, and then install it.听 After some fussing, I was able to do that.听 I didn't get any indication that it worked, but doing 'flatpak list', I was able to see it was installed.
听
There was nothing in the Start menu that would let me run it.听 I didn't know where it would be on my system, since I am not used to manually dealing with flatpaks.听 Using 'which JMRI', or any other name I could think of, did not show anything like that installed.听听 ChatGPT told me that if I ran 'flatpak run org.jmri.JMRI' in a terminal window, then it would run.听 When I did that, DecoderPro opened up.听听 I never use DecoderPro, always use PanelPro.听 I didn't see any way to make it open to that.
听
I finally found where on my system it was installed.听听 It was in my home directory at ~/.local/share/flatpak/app/org.jmri.JMRI/current/active/files/share/JMRI.听 By navigating there with the Nemo file manager, I found PanelPro and DecoderPro, and could start them.
听
That is my experience, it was a bit painful.听 Much easier to just install the java that you want, and also JMRI.听听 Assuming the flatpak can be made to 'just work' for the install, I would think for the new user, it will fail to connect to an external DCC system, such as the NCE PowerCab I have here at the laptop, because JMRI isn't a member of the dialout group.
听
Dave Morgan |
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Linux Crew:
Playing further with my flatpak install... One hoped for feature with a Linux release is a seamless update of a system. The flatpak install uses the same files structure for data but I have a problem finding the "programs" the scripts...听 No big problem there were launcher icons installed in "other" in the start pane but I wanted to update desktop icons that are easily built in Mint Cinnamon. The help show files gives me an /app/share/JMRI but that's not obvious where that actually is... there is no app directory in Home or the higher File System... So for me... interesting... but I would ask the developers to get the install to 100% of the standard we have or not worry about the flatpak version... I have several Linux/Mint/JMRI installs that I've gifted/built on recycled PC's that the easier an update the better... We are generally talking "noob" class computer users let alone Linux users. Jim Albanowski |
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I understand that. The "tricky bit" for both MS-Windows and MacOS installs is
getting and installing the "proper" JAVA JRE, not actually installing JMRI itself. That seems to be what non-techies seem to have the most trouble with. And probably the most confusing thing is that the version of Java at java.org -- Oracle's JAVA -- is the wrong one. This is where something like a "Flatpak" type of install might be helpful. Getting the correct version of JAVA for *Linux* is pretty trivial, by comparison, since almost all Linux distros have OpenJDK in their repo. Here having a RPM or DEB package with a proper depenency for OpenJDK could be helpful, eg: sudo apt install ./jmri-5.12.deb would then go after openjdk-17-jre (and openjdk-17-jre-headless) automagically. At Fri, 04 Apr 2025 10:29:53 -0500 "Dave Sand" <ds@...> wrote: -- Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364 Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services -- Linux Administration Services heller@... -- Webhosting Services |
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Robert,
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The macOS install is essentially the same as the Linux install. Download a DMG, open it and drag "JMRI" to "Applications". Dave Sand ----- Original message -----
From: "Robert Heller via groups.io" <heller@...> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Experimental "Flatpak" distribution of JMRI Date: Friday, April 04, 2025 8:34 AM This seems like a "solution looking for a problem", at least for *Linux*. Since JMRI is in JAVA and requires nothing outside of JAVA's JRE and installing a suitable JRE under Linux is "trivial" (compared to MS-Windows or MacOS), I am not sure how truely useful or needful this is. I can see a flatpak (or similar) for MS-Windows or MacOS, since it appears that those two O/S's have the greatest problems with installing JMRI, mostly caused by confusion about installing the proper version of a JRE. *I* would find a Linux "Flatpak" distribution of JMRI to be far more hassle to deal with than the current Linux distribution methodolgy of JMRI. Actually, I expect that the current Experimental "Flatpak" distribution of JMRI won't work on my machine(s) anyway -- I expect it is a x86_64 Flatpak and all of my machines use ARM processors. And this brings up a *new* issue that will complicate things: there would need to be *four* Linux flatpaks: ix86, x86_64, armv7l, and aarch64. My only thought about "improvements" in the Linux distribution of JMRI would be the creation of .deb and .rpm distrubutions of JMRI. I realize that JMRI will never be in any Linux distro repo and I understand why that is, but a self-made .deb and .rpm with a proper openjdk-XX-jre depenency could be helpful. *I* could probably help with creating the necessary control files to help with this, if anyone is interested. At Fri, 4 Apr 2025 08:19:38 -0400 "Bob Jacobsen via groups.io" <rgj1927@...> wrote: -- Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364 Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services -- Linux Administration Services heller@... -- Webhosting Services |
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Bob and everyone,
I have no strong feelings about adding a flatpak (and my Linux distribution does not have great support for it, so I won't test - plus I prefer spending my development time on other parts of JMRI which I've been neglecting far too long already). I'm just slightly wary of either dropping behind java releases or adding more flatpak releases to the JMRI schedule (i.e. 5.10-java17.0.13 on 5.10 release in Dec 2024, 5.10-java17.0.14 on Jan 21, 2025, 5.10-java17.0.15 on Apr 15, 2025 if things go as planned at Oracle). OTOH, I don't know if this is of any real concern, considering we are already shipping dozens (?) of libraries which also may go out of date in between production releases, and it's not system java but JMRI java :) Heiko -- eMails verschl眉sseln mit PGP - privacy is your right! Mein PGP-Key zur Verifizierung: |
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This seems like a "solution looking for a problem", at least for *Linux*.
Since JMRI is in JAVA and requires nothing outside of JAVA's JRE and installing a suitable JRE under Linux is "trivial" (compared to MS-Windows or MacOS), I am not sure how truely useful or needful this is. I can see a flatpak (or similar) for MS-Windows or MacOS, since it appears that those two O/S's have the greatest problems with installing JMRI, mostly caused by confusion about installing the proper version of a JRE. *I* would find a Linux "Flatpak" distribution of JMRI to be far more hassle to deal with than the current Linux distribution methodolgy of JMRI. Actually, I expect that the current Experimental "Flatpak" distribution of JMRI won't work on my machine(s) anyway -- I expect it is a x86_64 Flatpak and all of my machines use ARM processors. And this brings up a *new* issue that will complicate things: there would need to be *four* Linux flatpaks: ix86, x86_64, armv7l, and aarch64. My only thought about "improvements" in the Linux distribution of JMRI would be the creation of .deb and .rpm distrubutions of JMRI. I realize that JMRI will never be in any Linux distro repo and I understand why that is, but a self-made .deb and .rpm with a proper openjdk-XX-jre depenency could be helpful. *I* could probably help with creating the necessary control files to help with this, if anyone is interested. At Fri, 4 Apr 2025 08:19:38 -0400 "Bob Jacobsen via groups.io" <rgj1927@...> wrote: -- Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364 Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services -- Linux Administration Services heller@... -- Webhosting Services |
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As long as it is an additional option for Linux users.听 I run RPi and it is super easy right now to rename the existing JMRI folder and extract the replacement.听 Yes, I do have to handle Java separately, but then how often is the Java requirements changed.听 I would hate to see the existing process changed and/or complicated by something called Flatpak.
--
-splasher in somd -NCE PowerCab with Raspberry Pi 3b+ and JMRI -DCC-EX with Arduino Mega听w/motor shield, Raspberry Pi 3b+ and JMRI -Using听听Engine Driver with both -Generally running the latest dev version of JMRI & Engine Driver |
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Bob:
Just happen to be sitting in the lab and saw the email... Using Linux Mint 22.0 which uses flatpak for installs during updates so it's right there to try. Yes... Your URL downloaded and doing a flatpak install was good, just supplying password and Y when needed. There was a 5.8 on that machine and it seems to have been found when the 5.10 installed brought prefs forward. I didn't check logs to see if the JDK was changed, quick check is version 21.0.6. Obviously need to run more checks... this is a test machine and not in production... Jim Albanowski |
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A user has been interested in possibly distributing JMRI as a 鈥淔latPak鈥� for Linux. I don鈥檛 know much about that method, but apparently the distribution file also includes the JRE, so it鈥檚 (at least in theory) easier to install.
As an experiment, you can find a 5.10 distribution in this form at For more on this, see JMRI/JMRI Issue 11658: Is anybody familiar enough with this distribution method to be able to try it? Is this something that we should do on an ongoing basis? Bob 鈥� Bob Jacobsen rgj1927@... |
Sandpiper
splasher
Bob Jacobsen
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