Steve:

First off, your contributions to JMRI via Engine Driver are extraordinary and to be commended.?? I use the Engine Driver app regularly and find it more than satisfactory for use on my Digitrax powered layout.

A thought that might be considered a suggestion:? I just received one of the ProtoThrottles and it is a game changer as far as running the layout.?? Have you (or would you) consider a PT type control layout as an option to Engine Driver??? Something along these lines:?

1)? Replace the slider control with a discrete 9 position UI control widget (not sure what or how that would be implemented)
2)? Mimic the Transition lever with a 3 position control??? Reverse - Idle - Forward
3)? Map the brake function key to the slider type of control you are now using for the throttle.

Just a thought.?? I am able to use Engine Driver with the locomotives that have been reprogrammed to work with the PT (seriously long momentum CV values, etc), and I realize the PT has dedicated hardware to deliver the experience but with some subtle control modifications to your current UI your excellent app would be more workable with the PT configured locos.

Thank you for taking the time to read and digest my thoughts.

Respectfully,
Bob Morningstar

PS? I would be willing to pay for an enhanced app that has this functionality.

Bob,
Thanks for the kind words. Much appreciated.
Unfortunately, I don't follow what you're describing. I don't have access to one of those gadgets, so I'm not sure what the controls you're listing should do. Can you email me a photo or something with a writeup describing the behavior? In particular, we don't currently have an "Idle" or "Brake" function.
--SteveT

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This is similar to a challenge that I laid down in the old Yahoo group, shortly before the transition. Basically I asked for a skin to engineDriver that replicated the PT. I have used the actual PT on a friend's layout and it does make switching very realistic, and fun. And yes, there are many, mainly older, decoders that do not work with PT. But I am sure that will not deter people from wanting a PT. A bigger deterrent is the price, which is where an ED skin would come in. I imagine that this would not be a priority forthe core development and support team, perhaps someone with the necessary time and skills could create one. Maybe even as a <gasp> paid upgrade, after all WiThrottle in IOS is not completely free.....

Stefan

P.S. +1 on Bob's comments about EngineDriver and Steve, Dave and the rest of the team, it is an awesome app

Stefan

Bob,?
How do you envision that the idle and brakes functions would work??
The brake and idle concepts don't exit in ED so I am trying to understand what the algorithms would need to be. I get the concept of the basic ones, but the combinations are a stretch.?
i.e.
- What happens to the loco speed when it is in idle.
- what happens to the loco speed when the loco is not in idle and the brakes are applied.

Peter?
(Brisbane Australia)?

This is similar to a challenge that I laid down in the old Yahoo group, shortly before the transition.
Basically I asked for a skin to engineDriver that replicated the PT.

...


Why would you want to do switching operations on a Programming track ???

Sometimes it is better to spell out an abbreviation or TLA at least once to get a message context for others.

I believe this thread is using the PT to mean ProtoThrottle. But nobody has
confirmed that's what they were meaning.

-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
www.jmri.org
www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org
www.cnymod.com
www.syracusemodelrr.org

Hello Peter:

Regarding question 1,? when the throttle goes to idle it is the same as issuing a speed step 0 command and the momentum functionality takes over.

When the brake level is applied, the value in CV61 is used to accelerate the end of the momentum feature.?? For Soundtraxx Tsunami decoders there are multiple CVs that work in conjunction to simulate braking:
????? CV4 - Baseline braking rate?? (emulating momentum of the moving mass of a train when the throttle is at idle)
????? CV61 - F11 Braking rate when the F11 button is pressed. The throttle is set to 0, forcing the decoder to decelerate to a stop eventually.? This value is a subtraction or addition offset to CV4 depending on the sign of the value is CV61.

Econami decoders use CV4 and CV117? (see excellent article at .?? For whatever reason Econami and Tsunami use different CVs for the F11 brake rate offset.?? Go figure.

I hope I got this right, my apologies in advance if something is amiss.?? I did do my research.

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The base issue here is how to customize for each decoder type.
I use lots of Loksound. Some with FT (Brakes, etc.) and some without.
I also have lots of older Tsunami, which run and sound great, no brake or fancy new features.
Combine that with non-sound Loks, one Zimo Lok, and various others, including some QSI factory decoders, and you have to do custom setups for each throttle you create.
I for one do NOT want to customize ED for a specific decoder type. Just go to the roster entry in JMRI and set the function labels to match the decoder definitions. Brake shows up for brake function for that Lok. No brake button, you have not set that up, or not available on that decoder.

Set button label, or customize the look and feel of the whole app? Answer is obvious for me.
If you want to do or have something like that, please do, but name it something else, not generic Engine Throttle.

Just my opinion.
Thomas
DeSoto, TX

Obviously, I am, and willing and able to help on testing as well

Stefan

OK, OK,....PT here was indeed Protothrottle, I thought that I had seen the TLA used earlier in the thread but if not, my apologies

The thread has been informative and I appreciate folks responding back to me.?? A couple of thoughts:

1)? I concur, there is no need for a decoder specific version of the app;? any remapping of function keys can happen at the decoder level which is pretty trivial if one uses JMRI DecoderPro

2)? PT does in fact stand for ProttleThrottle.?? My bad for assuming everyone was thinking in the same context as me (a frequent issue with me according to my spouse and my staff at work!).

3)? I would be very willing to be a tester.

4)? Yes this idea would only work with decoders that have implemented some type of brake functionality.

5)? Concur with Dave that the manufacturers have pretty much been left to themselves to innovate and bring out new features.?? The lack of leadership from the industry standard setting committees has been dreadfully obvious.?? This is not meant to start a rant on a certain organization, which I belong to but you have to call a spade a spade at times.??? I will accept the confusion and inefficiencies of the current situation to get the innovation.

Again, you can use Engine Driver and get the same results as ProtoThrottle with some practice, my suggestion was solely about re-configuring some of the UI widgets to mimic more closely the look and feel of the physical PT device.?? I believe ED to be an outstanding app, fortunately I have an IT background and I am naturally drawn to the technology, some of the other operators on my layout want nothing to do with ED when operating and want a Digitrax Throttle in their hand.?? To each their own, but I cannot afford to buy (nor inclined to do so if I could) enough throttles for ops sessions.????

Just a note ?- it may be helpful to go to the protothrottle.com web site and watch the videos, and download the manual. The PT was developed as open source. There is a link to github where all of the code and pertinent info is freely available. The developers have stated they encourage others to build on their work.

gs

Bob,?
I would like disagree with you on point 4 of your recent post. I believe that the EngineDriver app (EDa), or a derivative, could be written in such a way that it would not require a decoder with braking function. Also, why not include the momentum function in the app, instead of having to program CVs. A benefit would be that the momentum and braking functions would then work the same, irrespective of the decoder used. The only thing that might need to be done is some speed matching, relatively easy using DecoderPro.

How would this work? Imagine as you notch up on the smartphone screen, instead of jumping straight to a specific speed step, the app would slowly increase the speed, until the relevant? speed step is reached. On notching down, the reduction in speed steps could be very slow (= high momentum), unless the brake is activated. In that case the speed step reduction would occur faster. Another benefit of this approach, the ProtoThrottle (PT) has a progressive brake switch, but most decoders just have and on/off brake function. With the app, the brake could be truly progressive, i.e. move a little and you have light braking, slide it over more and the braking (speed step reduction) is heavier.
Also, while many decoders can re-assign function keys, it should also be possible to do the same in the software, in settings that are linked to the specific locomotive. This would make it possible to use decoders where the function key assignment is limited or not possible.

Peter Akers: If you need help writing a functional design document, I would be happy to contribute, in addition to any future testing. Unfortunately, my IT experience does not extend to smartphone programming otherwise I might have tackled this challenge myself.

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