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SO AIU cab address 51 has all 14 sensors being used.? 51:7 is connected to a BD20.? When the BD20 is active the LED on the AIU lights but JMRI can't "see" that it has changed from inactive to active?? Below is some of the code from the sensor table so you can see it is defined.? JMRI "sees" all of the other sensors on the board and when I move this BD20's connection to a sensor on another AIU it now "sees" it?? I am posting here and in JMRI users since I am not sure if this is a hardware or software issue. Any thoughts on what is happening???
<sensor inverted="false">
? ? ? <systemName>NS805</systemName>
? ? ? <userName>51:6</userName>
? ? ? <comment>Elvas block 03 down to LA</comment>
? ? </sensor>
? ??<sensor inverted="false">
? ? ? <systemName>NS806</systemName>
? ? ? <userName>51:7</userName>
? ? </sensor>
? ? <sensor inverted="false">
? ? ? <systemName>NS807</systemName>
? ? ? <userName>51:8</userName>
? ? ? <comment>Elvas block 10</comment>
? ? </sensor>
Thanks
John Crellin
Bradenton, FL
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John C,
Two things. First I'd use what you have as the comment as the user name and the
other way around. There are times and places where the program takes a username
and might confuse that input as if it was making a system name. I think it
doesn't do that anymore but once upon a time, it did that sort of thing. But
more important I would think, is the username showing as hover text in a panel
is more meaningful. But the hardware entry of which can and pin is handy to keep
for checking out wiring.
Second is that not all AIU pins are the same sensitivity and not all BD20's have
matching output drive. If you switch this with a different input pin, does it
then work? Does the LED on the AIU show it going active? If you disconnect the
BD20 and touch a wire from the common to that input pin, does it show up? I
think the first 6 pins on each side are one thing and the last two are the less
sensitive ones.
Just some ideas for figuring out what is going on.
-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
www.jmri.org
www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org
www.cnymod.com
www.syracusemodelrr.org
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That landed on the wrong thread, Ken.
Wouter
On Wed, 26 Apr 2023, 16:36 Ken Cameron, < kcameron@...> wrote: John C,
Two things. First I'd use what you have as the comment as the user name and the
other way around. There are times and places where the program takes a username
and might confuse that input as if it was making a system name. I think it
doesn't do that anymore but once upon a time, it did that sort of thing. But
more important I would think, is the username showing as hover text in a panel
is more meaningful. But the hardware entry of which can and pin is handy to keep
for checking out wiring.
Second is that not all AIU pins are the same sensitivity and not all BD20's have
matching output drive. If you switch this with a different input pin, does it
then work? Does the LED on the AIU show it going active? If you disconnect the
BD20 and touch a wire from the common to that input pin, does it show up? I
think the first 6 pins on each side are one thing and the last two are the less
sensitive ones.
Just some ideas for figuring out what is going on.
-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
|
Sorry folks...? and Ken.....? ?I found the answer on the NCE group.? ?basically, don't use pins 6,7,13,14 for BD20s.
thanks.
John Crellin Bradenton, FL
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Anyone care to explain why these pins should not be used? Inspection of the AIU reveals that the input circuits to the two same numbered chips are all the same, so those pins should work the same as the rest of them.
I don't think this info is in the AIU manual, please correct me if I'm wrong, it happened years ago... once. ;)
John
Sorry folks...? and Ken.....? ?I found the answer on the NCE group.? ?basically, don't use pins 6,7,13,14 for BD20s.
thanks.
John Crellin Bradenton, FL
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John, ? The sensitivity of the chip pins associated with inputs 6 & 7 do not have the same sensitivity as the rest of the inputs. I can not speak to the issue with inputs 13 & 14, I didn’t check those in my testing. I made a modification to the board by adding resistors to improve the sensitivity. See.? /g/jmriusers/album?id=271388? By adding the two 8.2K resistors across the 4.7K resistors, effectively making them equivalent to a value of 3K, it improved the sensitivity. They will _not_ be as good as all the other inputs but will with play nicer when using BD20s.
Also, since BD20s were unattainable for awhile I tried another product that I found on eBay which was more cost effective.
Sorry for the long URL. They appear more sensitive than a BD20 with one caveat, since it has an active circuit it needs a power source which the BD20 does not really need. IMHO, I was impressed with the performance.?
John ?Bauchiero
Delaware & Hudson Model?Railroad
NCE PH-Pro+PowerCab,?RaspPi4b, JMRI 5.3.5
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Anyone care to explain why these pins should not be used? Inspection of the AIU reveals that the input circuits to the two same numbered chips are all the same, so those pins should work the same as the rest of them.
I don't think this info is in the AIU manual, please correct me if I'm wrong, it happened years ago... once. ;)
John
Sorry folks...? and Ken.....? ?I found the answer on the NCE group.? ?basically, don't use pins 6,7,13,14 for BD20s.
thanks.
John Crellin Bradenton, FL
|
John,?
I forgot to say the Block Detectors I mentioned work equally well even with a supply as low as 5 volts. Where did you find the information about inputs 13 & 14 on the NCE group?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Anyone care to explain why these pins should not be used? Inspection of the AIU reveals that the input circuits to the two same numbered chips are all the same, so those pins should work the same as the rest of them.
I don't think this info is in the AIU manual, please correct me if I'm wrong, it happened years ago... once. ;)
John
Sorry folks...? and Ken.....? ?I found the answer on the NCE group.? ?basically, don't use pins 6,7,13,14 for BD20s.
thanks.
John Crellin Bradenton, FL
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John,
Thank you for your reply and the link.
I have quite a few BD20s and some dual units based? on the the NE556 dual timer circuit from the source below, I ordered the boards and parts then assembled them, they have one plus feature and one minus feature, they have two outputs opposite to each other per channel and they require 12VDC to operate, I use a converted PC power supply for my DC requirements. Conversion of the PC PS has many ways on YouTube.
VT-5 detector;
The IR detectors found on Aliexpress are quite good too.
I've had good luck with these, I put a 5/8 inch length of 1/4 inch black heat shrink tubing over both the emitter and receiver to narrow the detection field of view, I used these to drive a relay to kill power to my staging tracks, power restored via the contacts of a Tortoise opening the circuit that triggered the relay when the turnout was thrown to allow the train to proceed.
John
On Wed, Apr 26, 2023 at 11:05?AM John Bauchiero < john4dhmr@...> wrote: John, ? The sensitivity of the chip pins associated with inputs 6 & 7 do not have the same sensitivity as the rest of the inputs. I can not speak to the issue with inputs 13 & 14, I didn’t check those in my testing. I made a modification to the board by adding resistors to improve the sensitivity. See.? /g/jmriusers/album?id=271388? By adding the two 8.2K resistors across the 4.7K resistors, effectively making them equivalent to a value of 3K, it improved the sensitivity. They will _not_ be as good as all the other inputs but will with play nicer when using BD20s.
Also, since BD20s were unattainable for awhile I tried another product that I found on eBay which was more cost effective.
Sorry for the long URL. They appear more sensitive than a BD20 with one caveat, since it has an active circuit it needs a power source which the BD20 does not really need. IMHO, I was impressed with the performance.?
John ?Bauchiero
Delaware & Hudson Model?Railroad
NCE PH-Pro+PowerCab,?RaspPi4b, JMRI 5.3.5
Anyone care to explain why these pins should not be used? Inspection of the AIU reveals that the input circuits to the two same numbered chips are all the same, so those pins should work the same as the rest of them.
I don't think this info is in the AIU manual, please correct me if I'm wrong, it happened years ago... once. ;)
John
Sorry folks...? and Ken.....? ?I found the answer on the NCE group.? ?basically, don't use pins 6,7,13,14 for BD20s.
thanks.
John Crellin Bradenton, FL
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John B, I was reading the mail on this thread, the original poster (John Crellin, Bradenton, FL) stated that pins? 6, 7, 13 & 14 were not as sensitive as the rest on his AIU.
It has been awhile since I had anything to do with an AIU as my layout is in boxes pending a move in the next two months.
I know on my last layout, I had used every pin on one AIU and had no issues with any pins unless it was installer error, mistakes happen.
John
On Wed, Apr 26, 2023 at 11:29?AM John Bauchiero < john4dhmr@...> wrote: John,?
I forgot to say the Block Detectors I mentioned work equally well even with a supply as low as 5 volts. Where did you find the information about inputs 13 & 14 on the NCE group?
John Bauchiero
Anyone care to explain why these pins should not be used? Inspection of the AIU reveals that the input circuits to the two same numbered chips are all the same, so those pins should work the same as the rest of them.
I don't think this info is in the AIU manual, please correct me if I'm wrong, it happened years ago... once. ;)
John
Sorry folks...? and Ken.....? ?I found the answer on the NCE group.? ?basically, don't use pins 6,7,13,14 for BD20s.
thanks.
John Crellin Bradenton, FL
|
Ok everyone. Thanks for the replies.?
First the thread about pin sensitivity and which pins was found right here.? Search on AIU.? I do not have the message # anymore.
NCE does not acknowledge the issue.? If you happen to have physical switches such as the interal dpdt on a tortoise you will never see the issue.? ?I have a bd20 on pin 6 and it works fine but pin 7 did not.? I move the bd20 to pin 5 and everything worked perfectly.
Thank you for all the advice on alternatives to the bd20 but here is what I found to be best....it is a bd20 work alike.? Ive built a dozen of them and they are perfect and dont need 12v dc power.
Scroll down to dcc occupancy detector.
This same website has an alternative for the aiu also and it seems to work better than an aiu. See the layout input monitor section. Ive built 3 so far
Thanks again
John Crellin
Bradenton, FL
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My memory is the current trip level is higher on the last two pins per side. I
don't know which component or stage of the interface caused that but it was more
than just a couple of mA or V differences.
-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
www.jmri.org
www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org
www.cnymod.com
www.syracusemodelrr.org
|
John C,
Yup, I'm working on the circuits from A-Train now or will be when the PCBs arrive.
OSH Park makes nice boards, I have 18 of the servo drivers, 9 completed (order mix up, my fault).
Waiting for the AIU like boards now.
A-Train looks interesting and less complicated then JMRI< I find the documentation a challenge to make sense of although several reads and fiddling with options usually works out.
John H
Ok everyone. Thanks for the replies.?
First the thread about pin sensitivity and which pins was found right here.? Search on AIU.? I do not have the message # anymore.
NCE does not acknowledge the issue.? If you happen to have physical switches such as the interal dpdt on a tortoise you will never see the issue.? ?I have a bd20 on pin 6 and it works fine but pin 7 did not.? I move the bd20 to pin 5 and everything worked perfectly.
Thank you for all the advice on alternatives to the bd20 but here is what I found to be best....it is a bd20 work alike.? Ive built a dozen of them and they are perfect and dont need 12v dc power.
Scroll down to dcc occupancy detector.
This same website has an alternative for the aiu also and it seems to work better than an aiu. See the layout input monitor section. Ive built 3 so far
Thanks again
John Crellin
Bradenton, FL
|
The pull up resistors for those inputs are a different value from the rest. Don't know why.
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Ken Cameron
John Bauchiero