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Locked speed matching
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I am running not the most recent version of JMRI, but the one previous.?
Running RRcircuits for DCC connection. Using Digitrax DS64 stationary decoders for turnout control. I bought two Bachmann EZ DCC on board diesels around Christmas last year. A lot of idle time since, but now I want to start using this diesels together. I am trying to match the speed on the second almost identical diesel using speed matching on JMRI. I have tried to use the speed table in decoder pro to speed up the slower diesel using MU to get the engines to run well together. No matter whether I use the speed table or setting the 3 CV's (mid, low, and high) to new values, I cannot get the faster engine to go any faster. I have done this on several of my other engines, even steam, and they were not hard to do at all. What am I doing wrong? I have a Digitrax Zepher controller. The DCC equipment is not new and is several years old. Please help me with this. Thanks. George |
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I have tried to both slow down the fast engine, and speed up the slow engine to no avail. The engine is a Bachmann with a Bachmann decoder and I set the Digitrax Zepher for 28 steps on the decoder to both engines. Not sure if that is right or not but it is not a Digitrax decoder and I have a Digitrax system. There is only a start up CV, and not a mid or high point CV. I have the decel and accel CV's set at 0. I am not getting any changes for speed steps to go through. I know the CV's are accepting the inputs through the programming track, but the engine is not going the faster speed or slower speed. I even programmed the engine to go full speed at all steps. It does not start at 255 speed. It is as if the decoder is not taking the programming. The engines are about a year old (the same engine but bought at different times. Can it be that they are supposed to be set on 128 speed steps? Or 14 speed steps?
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开云体育George, ? Although you were not specific about the Bachmann decoder model in these models your description “There is only a start up CV, and not a mid or high point CV” is an indication you have a Bachmann E-Z Command decoder that does not have full speed control capability. ? I believe your decoder has CV2 (V-start) implemented but lacks the CVs 6 (V-mid) ?and 5 (V-max).? These decoders also lack the 28 speed-step table.? You will not be able to “slow down the fast engine.”? ? The description for this Bachmann decoder confirms this likelihood: < > ? CV2 (V-start) is a ‘recommended’ CV included in nearly all decoders.? ?CVs 5(V-high) and 6(V-mid) are ‘optional’ CVs which are not implemented in some ‘basic’ decoders.? < > ? You also said you could not ?“speed up the slow engine.”? FYI -- Speeding up an engine is not possible – unless it was previously slowed down using either CV5 or the 28 speed-step table. ? I believe you will need to replace your decoders in order to ‘speed match’ these 2 units. ? A ‘separate’ discussion – and for clarity.? You said you “set the Digitrax Zephyr for 28 steps.”? ?I’m not sure if you changed the Zephyr option switches or ‘status edited’ the specific addresses for these decoders.? My recommendation would be to keep the Zephyr option switches set to select ‘new’ addresses at 128 speed steps operation.? If you have a decoder that requires operation at 28 (or 14) speed steps ‘Status Edit” that address when you are selecting it.? ? Early E-Z command decoders were 28 speed step units;? current production is 128 speed step capable.? ? HTH ? Ross Kudlick ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of
george.pendergraft
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019 1:09 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [jmriusers] speed matching ? I have tried to both slow down the fast engine, and speed up the slow engine to no avail. The engine is a Bachmann with a Bachmann decoder and I set the Digitrax Zepher for 28 steps on the decoder to both engines. Not sure if that is right or not but it is not a Digitrax decoder and I have a Digitrax system. There is only a start up CV, and not a mid or high point CV. I have the decel and accel CV's set at 0. I am not getting any changes for speed steps to go through. I know the CV's are accepting the inputs through the programming track, but the engine is not going the faster speed or slower speed. I even programmed the engine to go full speed at all steps. It does not start at 255 speed. It is as if the decoder is not taking the programming. The engines are about a year old (the same engine but bought at different times. Can it be that they are supposed to be set on 128 speed steps? Or 14 speed steps? |
开云体育George, what Ross has stated can be confirmed by reading the Bachmann E-Z Command decoder instructions that are available on the Bachmann web-site (). You cannot change the speed curve except for starting voltage. I suspect the decoder generates a linear speed curve starting at the value in CV2 and ending at 255. The instructions also indicate that the decoder has 28/128 step capability, i.e., it should operate OK with 128 step instructions. ? Mark Granville |
开云体育George, I should have also mentioned that the decoder instructions state the value of CV2 must be from 1-31, so full speed at all speed steps can never happen with these decoders. ? Mark Granville |
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Since this is a JMRI forum, why not use JMRI? and let it determine the exact decoder involved (cv7=46, CV8=101? = 36-552 )
This way you will also see if the Speed table is available for this particular decoder and also if CV2, 5 and 6 are valid for it in the DecoderPro definition file that the author worked hard to write up for us,.? No matter what you do you can not slow down the engine if CV2=0? you can not go lower. this entry level decoder does not provide for finer motor control. So you will be taking the slower of both engines and speeding up it's start voltage is all you can do. 28 or 128 will make little difference if we are talking step 2 speed. These are not smart decoders, they do not extrapolate intermediate steps. And momentum will not help you either. Marc |
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Hi Ross,
I read the spec sheet I got with the loco and it says that the decoder has 28 step capability. And the decoder is an E-Z command decoder. I placed the loco on the programming track and used the Digitrax Zepher to "status? edit" and set it to 28? speed steps. And as I said before using the speed table did nothing to change the speed slow or fast. I even set the table to go all out 255, but have found since that the decoder will not allow that. You are saying that the decoders in the two locos that I am trying to speed step cannot be adjusted that way? Would that be a non NRA compliant decoder? I thought that Bachmann has been up to the standard? I looked for a compatible decoder to replace the board on the Bachmann locos, but could not find an exact match. I have not done much looking for decoders as all of my engines are mostly Bachmann or Digitrax, mostly Digitrx. Is there a way to find a decoder board that has the head and rear light built in that will fit? into a SD9 or GP30? Thanks George ? |
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George, Did you let DecoderPro determine the decoder type via " Read type from decoder"?
If the DecoderPro definition says speed table is an option but your testing shows different, then the definition file could be erroneous. What are the values of CV7 and CV8 ?? Maybe we need to correct the definition.? Only the Bachmann 36-550 has the speed table option. Marc |
开云体育My reply comments are interspersed below. ? Also,? have you used the DecoderPro “New Loco” button to identify the decoder or did you select it from a list.? (I’m presuming you are using DecoderPro since you are asking on the Jmriusers forum.)? Identifying the exact make and model decoder often goes a long way in providing help. ? I don’t think you will find the E-Z Command decoders very satisfying.? I consider them an ‘entry level’ decoder; you desire to control speeds is above entry level. ? Ross ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of
george.pendergraft
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2019 3:22 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [jmriusers] speed matching ? Hi Ross, ?
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? ? And as I said before using the speed table did nothing to change the speed slow or fast. I even set the table to go all out 255, but have found since that the decoder will not allow that. ?
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? ? Thanks |
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George -
It doesn't take much to be an NMRA compliant decoder. There are only a handful of Mandatory CVs. ? ?1- the primary address ? ? 7 & 8 - the manufacture id ? ? 29 - the configuration data There are a few "recommended" CVs. ? ? 2 - Vstart ? ? 3 & 4 Acceleration and Deceleration momentum. ? ? 11 - packet time-out value (nothing you'll change) Everything else is "optional." I had a locomotive with a Bachmann decoder and it was pretty useless until I replaced it with a more capable decoder. gs ?? |
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Hi Marc,
Still trying to determine if I can speed match my two engines below. I did a "compare" in JMRI for the decoder I was working with, and apparently, a lot of the cv's did not get read. Some of the errors or statements are "same" which means the cv was the same. "timeout talking to decoder", "no acknowledgement from decoder" and "confirm failed". but many of the cv's did get read. I have to use a resistor on my programming track and the resistor is not soldered to the track but just wedged in between the tracks. This could be one thing against me. I'm not even sure it is the right resistor.? The program says that I have a 36-550 decoder with 4 functions. The instructions say that it is a 28 step decoder. When I check the cv 7 and 8 what should they read? Don't know if it helps any or not. One engine is a Bachmann EZ GP-30 Atlantic Coast line number 902 and I bought it new before Christmas of 2018. It has a mfg. ID of 101, and mfg. version # of 46. The other is a GP9 Bachmann number 1720 bought at the same time or near the other purchase. I did not get the mfg info this trip but I will if it helps. Both engines say I have no roster entry. I saved it to where I can find it. That is about it for this exchange. Thanks George |
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Googlng, I came upon this instruction sheet for the Bachmann 36-550, 4 function decoder.
https://www.toottoot.co.nz/downloads/files/Bachmann%2036550%20DCC%20Decoder.pdf? : Bit 5 of? CV29 must be set too enable " USER defined Speed table " ? When you go into DecoderPro and Bachmann 36-550, Speed Table Tab, you must select the? "Use Speed Table" button? so that CV29. bit 5? gets set to proper value. Fail to do this and the User Speed Table will have no effect. If DecoderPro can not IDENTIFY the decoder and match it to an existing roster entry,? you have issues with your program setup or the decoder in question. When you read CV7 and CV8? you should get? 46 and 101, which you are getting from somewhere.? These are also used by DecoderPro to match with the roster.? If you are still unsuccessful, use Program on Main? and fire out the User Speed Table and? CV29 value to the decoder.. If this still does not work. Give up, give in,? Remove decoder and place on table. Take mallet in hand and " convince " the decoder.? Marc |
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Dave Audley
开云体育I like the last sentence!
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Dave Audley
? From: forfoum@...
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2019 11:06 PM
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] speed matching ?
Googlng,
I came upon this instruction sheet for the Bachmann 36-550, 4 function
decoder. https://www.toottoot.co.nz/downloads/files/Bachmann%2036550%20DCC%20Decoder.pdf? : Bit 5 of? CV29 must be set too enable " USER defined Speed table "?? When you go into DecoderPro and Bachmann 36-550, Speed Table Tab, you must select the? "Use Speed Table" button? so that CV29. bit 5? gets set to proper value. Fail to do this and the User Speed Table will have no effect. If DecoderPro can not IDENTIFY the decoder and match it to an existing roster entry,? you have issues with your program setup or the decoder in question. When you read CV7 and CV8? you should get? 46 and 101, which you are getting from somewhere.? These are also used by DecoderPro to match with the roster.? If you are still unsuccessful, use Program on Main? and fire out the User Speed Table and? CV29 value to the decoder.. If this still does not work. Give up, give in,? Remove decoder and place on table. Take mallet in hand and " convince " the decoder.? Marc |
开云体育PMSL There is no engineering problem that cannot be resolved by the use of a bigger hammer! Dave
On 28/11/2019 11:37, Dave Audley wrote:
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开云体育Bachmann decoders are a good reason for using DecoderPro. It’s easy to get confused when manually programming these decoders, especially when dealing with CV29. Why? Because the NMRA, most books, and other manufacturers number the bits of a CV as 0-7, but Bachmann numbers them 1-8. ? Mark Granville |