Hi all,
I've done an archive search on BLI Paragon 2 and 3 decoder programming, see lots of issues but (possibly I missed them) no firm conclusions.? I have read and saved files for a number of sound decoders - Loksound Select micro, Soundtraxx etc, but these BLIs have me frustrated.? It seems I can write to them OK, but reading what's there in the first place is a challenge.? I'm doing read full sheet on the CV pane followed by multiple read changes on sheet to clear the red tabs, but after about 40 "read changes" tries on a Paragon 2 loco it went haywire.? I only rescued it by downloading individual CV values from the BLI technical reference and the operators manual supplied with the loco, then did a write full sheet (also on the CV pane) successfully.? Probably didn't get exact values for some CVs, which is what I'm trying to do in the first place.? My info:
Digitrax system on N scale layout (DCS100, DT402D throttle), use JMRI 4.14 just for programming on isolated track using PR3 (12 V DC 0.5 amp) and a PTB-100 booster (15 V DC 1 amp) with about 4 foot guessing 18 gauge leads soldered to the programming track.? From reading archives, I'm wondering if I need to bump up power supply to the PR3, just buy a new PR4 or some other interface, if the problem is with my leads, etc.

Any help or advice would be appreciated.? Thanks

Tim Lux

开云体育

It seems I can write to them OK, but reading what's there in the first place is a challenge.? I'm doing read full sheet on the CV pane followed by multiple read changes on sheet to clear the red tabs, but after about 40 "read changes" tries on a Paragon 2 loco it went haywire.? I only rescued it by downloading individual CV values from the BLI technical reference and the operators manual supplied with the loco, then did a write full sheet (also on the CV pane) successfully.? Probably didn't get exact values for some CVs, which is what I'm trying to do in the first place.? My info:
Digitrax system on N scale layout (DCS100, DT402D throttle), use JMRI 4.14 just for programming on isolated track using PR3 (12 V DC 0.5 amp) and a PTB-100 booster (15 V DC 1 amp) with about 4 foot guessing 18 gauge leads soldered to the programming track.

Hi Dave,
I have been reading CVs EXACTLY as you said, as I've seen you post these instructions earlier.
I tried a couple times to download 4.17.4, and got caught up in the dreaded antivirus trap.? This machine is a windows 10, and I figured out how to bypass Windows Defender and also temporarily disable my McAfee antivirus real-time scanning, so the file downloaded and the installation proceeded until I got an error on the setup screen:

Error opening file for writing:
C:\Program Files (x86)\JMRI\LaunchJMRI.exe

When I clicked Abort (didn't want to screw up with a partial install), the following showed up:

Installation Aborted
Setup was not completed successfully
Can't write C:\Program Files (x86)|JMRI
Setting x64 registry view...
Setting x86 registry view...
Output folder: C:\Program Files (x86)\JMRI
Extract: jmri.jar... 100%
Extract: COPYING
Extract: jmri.conf
Can't write: C:\Program Files (x86)\JMRI\LaunchJMRI.exe

Any idea where I go from here? I checked java and I'm up to date (version 8 update 221).

Thanks again,

Tim

Reading more posts, looks like I haven't turned off enough anti-virus stuff.? I've only got McAfee on this computer, any idea what else to turn off other than real-time scanning?? Even though Windows Defender says it's overwritten by McAfee, it came up with an alert (which I bypassed easily) before I got the McAfee block the first time.

Tim

Now I'm really out of ideas...turned off MaAfee real-time scanning, firewall, automatic updates and scheduled scans.? Went to Windows Defender (Everything points to McAfee on it), made sure Windows Defender Antivirus periodic scanning was off, and the only other thing I saw was Secure Boot (no option to turn that off), which says it protects against malware on startup, which is not what I'm trying to do.? Still wouldn't load, stopped in the same place...

Tim

开云体育

Hi all,
I've done an archive search on BLI Paragon 2 and 3 decoder programming, see lots of issues but (possibly I missed them) no firm conclusions.? I have read and saved files for a number of sound decoders - Loksound Select micro, Soundtraxx etc, but these BLIs have me frustrated.? It seems I can write to them OK, but reading what's there in the first place is a challenge.? I'm doing read full sheet on the CV pane followed by multiple read changes on sheet to clear the red tabs, but after about 40 "read changes" tries on a Paragon 2 loco it went haywire.? I only rescued it by downloading individual CV values from the BLI technical reference and the operators manual supplied with the loco, then did a write full sheet (also on the CV pane) successfully.? Probably didn't get exact values for some CVs, which is what I'm trying to do in the first place.? My info:
Digitrax system on N scale layout (DCS100, DT402D throttle), use JMRI 4.14 just for programming on isolated track using PR3 (12 V DC 0.5 amp) and a PTB-100 booster (15 V DC 1 amp) with about 4 foot guessing 18 gauge leads soldered to the programming track.? From reading archives, I'm wondering if I need to bump up power supply to the PR3, just buy a new PR4 or some other interface, if the problem is with my leads, etc.

Any help or advice would be appreciated.? Thanks

Tim Lux

I only have experience with the BLI Paragon 2 decoder in the N-Scale PRR M1a/b locomotives.? I could never get a completed reading using my PR3 with JMRI on a test track.? I even upped the voltage on the power supply for the PR3 to 18Vdc.? That got the hit rate up to about 80% but still never 100%.? I finally switched to a SPROG 3 for my programing and then had no problems doing a Read All Sheets and having it succeed the first time.? I would have thought the PTB-100 would give you the same success rate.? Probably a SPROG 2 woujld work also but the store was out of stock when I was looking and I didn't want to wait.

-- 
John H. Reinhardt
  PRRT&HS  #8909
  C&O HS  #11530
  N-Trak   #7566 

John,

Thanks for the info.? I also have an N scale PRR M1a/b, and for some reason I could read it just fine (with a few rereads to clear up the red tabs).? It's been the only Paragon 2 I've had success with.? I'll have to hopefully get more advice (and yes I'm following Michael Payne's post with the same download issues, just that we have different antivirus programs) on what I missed to get 4.17.4 through McAfee and Windows Defender, and unless Dave Heap or others have more suggestions I might have to try a Sprog.

Thanks

Tim

Marc

Thank you for the commentary.? I'll shorten leads tomorrow - the PTB-100 has such skinny track outputs for about 8" that I never gave the extension wires another thought until this issue arose.? As far as JMRI running, DUH!? I'm an idiot - I opened JMRI and clicked the update link off the help menu to ensure I was going to the proper source for the update, but forgot to close it before running the update file.? I'll kill McAfee real-time scanning, firewall, automatic updates and automatic scanning tomorrow and try again.
I'll report back.

Thanks again,

Tim

Tim,

I would go the route of running the installer 'run as administrator', just
to make sure. That should solve any permission issues. One other step is
doing this after a reboot and having never touched JMRI, just to insure that
it isn't 'open'. Now the installer should be seen as something needing admin
rights and trigger the security prompt to 'make changes to my computer' but
doing the right click and 'run as admin' will insure that.

Otherwise it sounds like you did the usual stuff.

-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
www.jmri.org
www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org
www.cnymod.org
www.syracusemodelrr.org

The size of the programming track feeders matters a lot besides the length.
I've got two layouts with 15' to 25' of feeder but used 12AWG wire. Have not
had issues with reading. The PTB is right next to the programing track
however.

-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
www.jmri.org
www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org
www.cnymod.org
www.syracusemodelrr.org

An update to all who gave some advice,
Ken, I don't know whether it was the reboot or the "run as administrator" that did it, but I'm now running build 4.17.4 on my windows 10 laptop.? Thank you (Marc too for pointing out the obvious).? I also relocated my programming track right beside the computer, meaning I go from computer to PR3 to PTB-100 to programming track, all done with only the factory supplied leads that came with the PR3 and PTB, hence no more 4 foot leads off the programming track.?
Now the fun part - I took my Baldwin Centipede N scale Paragon 2 (front loco on an A-A unit) and on the CV pane tried to read full sheet followed by repeated read changes on sheet.? Yesterday this loco went unresponsive after admittedly about 40 read changes on the cv pane using build 4.14 and my long programming track leads, and it showed a short address of 127 and a long address of 10239.? Inputting 03 and 5828 with a long address preference on the basic pane, then switching to the CV pane and writing CV1,17/18 and 29 didn't fix it, I had to do a POM on my layout to get those CVs to take.? It also showed a preference for using Vstart, Vmid and Vhigh on the Basic Speed Control tab, but read a value of 0 for Vhigh, which is clearly wrong.? Again, I fixed this using POM.

Today using build 4.17.4 and short programming track leads right off the PTB-100 I'm at about 15 red tabs still showing after 6 read changes on sheet on the CV pane, and it left CV 2/5/6 alone so the Vstart/mid/high are ok, but again short address showed 127 with a short address preference.? At least it read CVs 17/18 OK.? I was also able to restore short address 03 and the long address preference (writing from the CV pane).? It appears a number of the CVs it can't read properly or is reading erroneously are on the speed table (67-94) which is no big deal when it's using CVs 2/5/6, but there's also some ones in the 180-190 range, and I have no idea what those are for.? For the record, writing seems to go fast now, still just problems reading.

Thoughts anyone? Would it help if I uploaded the computer info (I think that's Help>System Console, correct?).? It's pretty long, though.

Thanks again for any assistance.? I'm getting there slowly - at least I'm on 4.17.4!

Tim

Oh, also all my read errors have been No acknowledge from locomotive (308), and I'm using Direct Byte programming mode.

I have exactly the same setup as you (PR3, PTB100 with 15volt 1 amp supply, Windows 10 laptop running 4.17 in Direct Byte) and only have an occasional problem. One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is to make sure you disabled the Read after Write selection . I think it’s on the Basic pane. Another thing I’ve found is that the programming track needs to be absolutely clean. One dust speck seems to hose it up.
Good luck.
--
Mike Heintzman
Modeling the P&PU since 1953

Thanks Mike, good to know someone else has the same setup working.? I have no idea where "Read after Write" is enabled or disabled, couldn't find it going through preferences, comprehensive programmer or using the help menu.? Can anyone tell me please?? And does this setting affect when you're reading only?

Also, I generally don't have any problems writing to the Paragon 2's, it's just that I'm trying to read what's there in an "as-delivered" condition, something Dave Heap mentioned in a previous post that we should be doing and I'm not, hence I'm in catch-up mode.? Do you have any difficulties creating your specific as-read rosters for any of your sound locomotives?? So far mine are all fine (Loksound Select micro, various SoundTraxx, E-Z Command, etc) except these Paragons.

Thanks to the group as always for answers and suggestions.

Tim Lux

Tim,

On 14 Sep 2019, at 4:06 AM, Tim Lux <timlux33@...> wrote:

Thanks Mike, good to know someone else has the same setup working. I have no idea where "Read after Write" is enabled or disabled, couldn't find it going through preferences, comprehensive programmer or using the help menu. Can anyone tell me please? And does this setting affect when you're reading only?

Preferences->Roster->Programmer.

Dave in Australia

Marc,

On 14 Sep 2019, at 5:47 AM, forfoum@... wrote:

There is really no point in reading-defaults (as delivered). What Dave talks of is in regards to ESU decoders only. There is no benefit in doing this with Soundtraxx,EZ-Command or other decoders. All other decoders JMRI definitions have the proper "default values" written in the definition file. ESU is
different.

We can't guarantee the accuracy of JMRI defaults for any decoder definition. We only go by what is published, which is not always accurate. Even if one of us has an actual sample of the decoder, manufacturers can change defaults during production runs.

Dave in Australia

So Dave, should I continue to try reading all CVs when I get a new (non ESU) locomotive? I’m just concerned I’m somehow altering what’s in there (example getting wrong addresses, Vhigh values, CV 29 showing short address preference when it was running on long address, etc). All these things happened to me on a Paragon 2 centipede, hence my uncertainty and desire to find the “always-works” method of reading these.

Thanks again,

Tim in Canada

Tim,

On 14 Sep 2019, at 7:16 AM, Tim Lux <timlux33@...> wrote:

So Dave, should I continue to try reading all CVs when I get a new (non ESU) locomotive?

I always do.

I did ask you before whether the CV numbers that fail are:
- Consistently the same? Can indicate that the CV is not supported by your decoder.
- Random? Usually a sign of poor track contact or even a DCC programming hardware design deficiency.

I’m just concerned I’m somehow altering what’s in there (example getting wrong addresses, Vhigh values, CV 29 showing short address preference when it was running on long address, etc). All these things happened to me on a Paragon 2 centipede, hence my uncertainty and desire to find the “always-works” method of reading these.

The only time JMRI alters what's in a decoder is when it reads indexed CVs, in which case it has to set the index CV(s) before reading these special CVs. It shouldn't be changing Vhigh values, CV 29 etc.

Such occurrences would indicate problems with the design of either the decoder or the DCC programming hardware. Or possibly poor programming track conditions (dirty track/wheels , long connecting leads etc.) leading to spikes that corrupt the decoder contents.

Dave in Australia

Marc,

On 14 Sep 2019, at 7:46 AM, forfoum@... wrote:

The "default" decoder values are only a reset away in most cases.

Correct.

ESU decoders will go back to infancy in certain conditions during a reset,

Only if they weren't loaded correctly by the OEM, retailer, end-user with LokProgrammer.

hence the recommendation to read them before hand.

That's not the reason. There are several reasons:
- Some panes (such as the Function Map) are completely blank in JMRI because there are no applicable defaults. The Function Map is completely free-form. There's no way you can know in advance what row will control (say) F6. It's up to the project designer. So without reading that pane you have to way to know what the current mapping is nor how to change anything.
- Too many users assume the default pane contents are correct, make a small change and then Write Full Sheet, causing unintended things to change.

ESU decoders are barren (or close too) in there out-of-box state.

Correct.

They get programmed by either the Manufacturer ( think Rapido, ScaleTrains anyone who manufacturers an engine/decoder combo) OR by the point of purchase ( hobby shop ) were you purchased the decoder (if you requested a file be load).
OR by the end User, if he has the LokPRogrammer and there software.

Correct.

If the load is not done properly, things can go wrong during a RESET and render the decoder inoperative. And then things go south.

Correct. But that's a rare occurrence these days. ESU changed the defaults so a project loaded had to deliberately choose not to set the correct new defaults.

For the BLI decoders, the reset menu shows: Reset (unless locked), reset to match Blue Line (F0-F12), reset to match QSI (F0-F12), reset to match Soundtraxx (F0-F12), reset even if locked. It will go back to factory defaults and will be operational. The chances of things screwing up are very slim.

What is the point of doing a RESET, then reload the DEFAULTS you read 6 month ago to then reload the custon roster entry you created.

Again, ESU SOUND decoder are another matter and reading the values before hand is the proper recommendation.

Dave in Australia

Thanks for all the input Group

Dave, my apologies for not answering your earlier question.? As far as I can recall, the CVs that fail are random.? I clean my programming track and loco wheels with electronics grade isopropyl alcohol (99.9% pure anhydrous, it says).? I DID find the wheels on this centipede to be somewhat covered in almost a shipping oil, have been cleaning with a sheet of paper towelling soaked in the alcohol laying on the track, then running the loco over it by hand (read that somewhere in the group archives). Maybe I need to clean it some more, even though I worked at it for about 30 mins.? Also, your comment about the long connecting leads is certainly valid - when I cut out the extensions per Ken Cameron's advice and went straight from the PTB-100 to programming track things improved immensely.? Really the only reading errors I saw this last round after upgrading to 4.17.4 and removing extensions was the 127 short address read and the change to short address preference in CV 29.? Everything else was just 308 errors no acknowledge from loco.? And yes, I did not have the "confirm CV writes" checked - thanks for that tip Mike Heintzman.

Dave and Marc, I'm beginning to see that there's no hard and fast way to set up these roster files.? I'm a retired engineer (no, sadly not a "real" one, just a mechanical engineer) and a bit of a perfectionist, so I'll probably clean, clean, clean and proceed carefully with these BLIs and try to read them all.? After reading John Reinhardt's success with a Sprog 3 I'm toying with getting one.? I don't know why I'd need that much current on N scale either, but why introduce another variable going to a Sprog 2.? There's none where I live but I could certainly order one, just that I'd have to set up another profile and I only did that once probably about 8 or 10 years ago.

Thanks again to all

Tim Lux