On Sep 1, 2019, at 11:34 AM, bluetobits <steve.lomax@...> wrote:


I've had a few parse errors in the past. Usually needed to revert to a previous version and rebuild but this one loads for me ok,
It seems quite a few are having issues with automation. I've been trying for over a year now and invested a lot of time on it, I have had some success?but usually fails allocating blocks after a few circuits or passes a red light. I suspect most use scripting to get automation to work, and I regret not?spending that time learning this approach.?

The layout file is?
AFarfelu16Fadj1.xml?
the resources.zip file just contains a few images I've used as sensor icons in the layout.
and both files can be found here:
/g/jmriusers/files/ProblemsBeingWorkedOn/Steve%20UK%20009
Here is a list of things which would have helped a great deal if I knew from the outset.?

? Solid and reliable block designation is vital

? avoid changing the names of blocks, or indeed anything. The name change does not always carry throughout JMRI.

? every block along the automated route needs an occupancy sensor. A simulated virtual sensor will do. but some real ones are essential. I use?momentary infra red track sensors which in-turn trigger a virtual occupancy sensor.?

? JMRI must internally generate SML (signal mast logic) which must be rock solid along the automated route . The problem I have at present is?that the generated logic is not correct.

? signals only need to be placed at locations that you need them. the last signal will protect all blocks and turnouts between itself and it's paired?signal.

? SML can be auto generated if sufficient signals are correctly placed on the layout.?

? Block logic and signal mast logic are generated independently and may not be the same.

? Simple Signal Logic does not help automation whatsoever and is a 'red herring'.

? Dispatcher and Warrants are two independent systems which bear no relation to each other.

? section direction refers to the sequence that blocks are traversed through the section irrespective of the train direction.

? forward and reverse sensors are virtual and are generated and triggered by the software to report the direction a train is passing ?through a?section. This refers to the direction of travel through the section, not the direction of travel of the train. these can be used in logix for such things?as end of line sensing etc, but otherwise may be ignored.

? Forward and reverse sensors are I believe, for setting the stop point of a train within a section if the next signal or turnout is against it. Omission??of a stop ?sensor will cause the train to stop as it enters the block. It may be possible to cheat this with careful settings of block and train length. I?am yet to get this far with automation.

? a transit must be built from sections to generate the route a train may be assigned to. Only one transit may be active at a time.

? Automatic trains follow a combination of block speeds, turnout speeds, ?signal speeds and ?transit set speeds. It is difficult to determine why the?train speed ?changes along the transit route.

? For some reason within my layout, the default signal speed for passing a red light is 15% throttle.

? If a block already allocated to a train is occupied by another train, that block cannot be re-allocated when later unoccupied. The auto train will?then fail. This makes auto running two trains running opposite directions with passing loops on the same line difficult.

? the help files say that turning loops cannot be automated. I learned that it is possible by splitting the loop into 3 blocks and setting the block?order within the section. It works for my lower loop but I cant yet get it to properly work for my upper loop.

I hope some of these help
Good luck


Steve Lomax


--?
Steve 009 in UK

On Sep 1, 2019, at 12:36 PM, Dave Sand <ds@...> wrote:

Steve,

To get the new panel loaded, I had change two entries for?No Entry UP:

? ? ? <inactive url="preference:resources/Vsensorgreen.gif" degrees="0" scale="1.0">
? ? ? ? <rotation>0</rotation>
? ? ? </inactive>
? ? ? <unknown url="preference:resources/Vsensoridle.gif" degrees="0" scale="1.0">
? ? ? ? <rotation>0</rotation>
? ? ? </unknown>

They had?program:resources/icons/misc?in the path.

Item 2: ?With 4.17.3, you can change block names.
Item 4: ?I re-generated the SML and I don’t find any errors. Is there a specific pair that is causing problems?
Item 7: ?SML auto generation is totally dependent on block routing.

I have uploaded a fixed xml file using 4.17.3, to my folder: ?AFarfelu16Fadj1 DS.xml

I have not looked at the dispatcher issues since I have only played a bit in that area.


Dave Sand

On Sep 1, 2019, at 11:34 AM, bluetobits <steve.lomax@...> wrote:


I've had a few parse errors in the past. Usually needed to revert to a previous version and rebuild but this one loads for me ok,
It seems quite a few are having issues with automation. I've been trying for over a year now and invested a lot of time on it, I have had some success?but usually fails allocating blocks after a few circuits or passes a red light. I suspect most use scripting to get automation to work, and I regret not?spending that time learning this approach.?

The layout file is?
AFarfelu16Fadj1.xml?
the resources.zip file just contains a few images I've used as sensor icons in the layout.
and both files can be found here:
/g/jmriusers/files/ProblemsBeingWorkedOn/Steve%20UK%20009
Here is a list of things which would have helped a great deal if I knew from the outset.?
? Solid and reliable block designation is vital
? avoid changing the names of blocks, or indeed anything. The name change does not always carry throughout JMRI.
? every block along the automated route needs an occupancy sensor. A simulated virtual sensor will do. but some real ones are essential. I use?momentary infra red track sensors which in-turn trigger a virtual occupancy sensor.?
? JMRI must internally generate SML (signal mast logic) which must be rock solid along the automated route . The problem I have at present is?that the generated logic is not correct.
? signals only need to be placed at locations that you need them. the last signal will protect all blocks and turnouts between itself and it's paired?signal.
? SML can be auto generated if sufficient signals are correctly placed on the layout.?
? Block logic and signal mast logic are generated independently and may not be the same.
? Simple Signal Logic does not help automation whatsoever and is a 'red herring'.
? Dispatcher and Warrants are two independent systems which bear no relation to each other.
? section direction refers to the sequence that blocks are traversed through the section irrespective of the train direction.
? forward and reverse sensors are virtual and are generated and triggered by the software to report the direction a train is passing ?through a?section. This refers to the direction of travel through the section, not the direction of travel of the train. these can be used in logix for such things as?end of line sensing etc, but otherwise may be ignored.
? Forward and reverse sensors are I believe, for setting the stop point of a train within a section if the next signal or turnout is against it. Omission??of a stop ?sensor will cause the train to stop as it enters the block. It may be possible to cheat this with careful settings of block and train length. I am?yet to get this far with automation.
? a transit must be built from sections to generate the route a train may be assigned to. Only one transit may be active at a time.
? Automatic trains follow a combination of block speeds, turnout speeds, ?signal speeds and ?transit set speeds. It is difficult to determine why the?train speed ?changes along the transit route.
? For some reason within my layout, the default signal speed for passing a red light is 15% throttle.
? If a block already allocated to a train is occupied by another train, that block cannot be re-allocated when later unoccupied. The auto train will?then fail. This makes auto running two trains running opposite directions with passing loops on the same line difficult.
? the help files say that turning loops cannot be automated. I learned that it is possible by splitting the loop into 3 blocks and setting the block?order within the section. It works for my lower loop but I cant yet get it to properly work for my upper loop.
I hope some of these help
Good luck


Steve Lomax


--?
Steve 009 in UK

On Sep 2, 2019, at 7:42 AM, haltz@... wrote:

Hello, Dave and Steve. I continue to get the same parse error, with all of the xml files the both of you provided. My JMRI version is 4.14+Rd060e0b, is?that a problem? And I'm offline, the "about" screen says "NCE:using Simulator on (none)". Is that a problem?

?

Thanks. I haven't yet been able to find 4.17.3 for loading, but do now have the latest release version and have set the correct configuration and am able to load Steve's panel with no errors. I now have plenty to study and understand.