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Locked DecoderPro &ESU LokSound Factory reset
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Frank in Houston
I am trying to add a new Atlas GP-7 locomotive to my DecoderPro roster so I can set the decoder address and other things the way I want them.
First I go to NEW Locomotive and select ESU as decoder manufacturer ? Then I click on that and go thru the menu of decoders until I find "LokSound Select".. I select that and I have a new entry that I can use to program my new locomotive. QUESTION:? The CV's listed on this initial set up of CV's, in DecoderPro, are those values? the same as Factory Reset values? I placed my new locomotive on the programming track and attempted a COMPARE.? I found many instances where the CV entry in the decoder did not match the entry in the same CV in the DecoderPro software. Is this correct?? Should I do a READ of all CV's of this new locomotive first to make sure the CV values in the DecoderPro are the same as what is in the decoder before I make my changes? I assumed a new locomotive would have the same values in the CV's as what is called a factory reset in DecoderPro, am I doing something wrong? A lot of people have worked very hard to set all of this up, I do not want to mess anything up.? THANK YOU......Frank -- Have Fun....Frank.... |
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Frank,
On 8/1/19 7:26 PM, Frank in Houston wrote: First I go to NEW Locomotive and select ESU as decoder manufacturer ?I believe in most decoders they are (as far as the JMRI people knew when they wrote the definition). The exception - you guessed it - are sound decoders... (I definitely know that about LokSound and Digitrax sound decoders) That's because the default settings (and also the meaning) of some of the CVs depend on the sound scheme loaded on the decoder. What might be "steam chuff rate" on a steam sound scheme could be "turbo whine on/off" on an SD40-2 diesel scheme or "idle sound timeout" on a GP20 or not exist at all on an F7 scheme. Is this correct?? Should I do a READ of all CV's of this new locomotiveYes, do a "Read all CVs" on a new loco. And since there is a glitch in JMRI when doing "Read all sheets", please do "Read full sheet" on the "All CVs"-pane. There will probably still be some read errors, so repeat "Read changes on sheet" until there aren't any left. Hope this helps and good luck, Heiko -- eMails verschlüsseln mit PGP - privacy is your right! Mein PGP-Key zur Verifizierung: |
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You also need to do Read Type from Decoder, as new Loks from atlas, scale trains, etc are Loksound V5 decoders, not Selects. Add in Old V4.0 and Essential Sound Units, all of which are different, and for all the box says 'Loksound", and I never trust the box.
Quite a few differences between the various versions (Still sorting that out as the V5 are new this year.) And note that the factory documents still say Select ( or V4) even though the new Lok has a V5. (Don't get me started on Essential Sound Units) I Just added a pair of Atlas THB GP7 to my previous pair (Two years old). Old has Selects, new has V5. And lots more features to play with. Same paperwork! Just another tip. Thomas DeSoto, TX |
开云体育Frank, First I go to NEW Locomotive and select ESU as decoder manufacturer ? Then I click on that and go thru the menu of decoders until I find "LokSound Select".. I select that and I have a new entry that I can use to program my new locomotive. Never attempt to guess the model of a modern ESU decoder. You must always use New Loco->Read Type from Decoder. This will uniquely identify any current ESU decoder.
Reading the full decoder is essential, particularly with ESU decoders where there are no "standard defaults". Each sound project has its own "factory defaults". All ESU sound decoders are manufactured effectively blank. When a Sound project is loaded to the decoder (using LokProgrammer software) part of the procedure is to write a new set of "factory defaults". Because of a known (but as yet unresolved) race condition with certain decoder settings variables in JMRI code: 1) Use "Read Full Sheet" on the CVs pane instead of "Read All Sheets". It is less likely to cause errors when reading a decoder with lots of CVs. Once finished, some may be missed (displayed in red). Use "Read Changes on Sheet" as many times as needed until no red items remain. (Hint: Click on the Status column in the CVs pane until you see a down arrow. All the Red items will then be at the top.) 2) After you make changes on a programming sheet, don't use Write/Read changes on that programming sheet. Instead, switch to the CVs pane and use Write/Read changes on (the CVs) sheet. The result is the same but it will never trigger the race condition. You'll also see a number of messages in the JMRI System Log like this: "ERROR - Variable=xxxxxx; Busy goes false with state IDLE" Ignore these as they don't indicate a real error, we'll fix the problem in a later JMRI release. Dave in Australia |
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Frank in Houston
开云体育THANK YOU AGAIN DAVE.Question please. ?Since I already selected the model of the decoder for this new Atlas GP-7 (I used “LokSound Select”) from the listing of available ESU decoders AND downloaded all of the CV’s from this new locomotive using “LokSound Select”, (it took about two hours)…. IS it to late to use NEW LOCO—>READ TYPE from Decoder and start all over again? ?(Then again download all CV’s from the locomotive?)? ?I am sure some CV’s used by the locomotive were missed by “LokSound Select” as the Atlas instructions that came with the locomotive suggested changing some CV’s which I could not find using “LokSound Select”. Thank you. ?I appreciate your help as I am really trying to get this correct. |
开云体育Frank,
There are at least three vastly different families of ESU decoder in recent OEM models; V4/Select, Essential Sound Unit and V5. While some CVs are in common many hundreds are not. You MUST use Read Type From Decoder to get it right. And don't use Paged Mode. Some systems will fail trying to read these decoders correctly in Paged Mode. Dave in Australia |
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Frank in Houston
OK DAVE, I will do it. ?THANK YOU AGAIN....I switched from Paged Mode to Direct mode. ?(Yes, much, much faster). ?Next, I placed the Atlas locomotive on the program track. ?I then used "Read Type from Decoder" and DecoderPro identified the manufacturer as ESU...however DecoderPro then highlighted about 80 % of the listed Decoder types. ?So I chose "LokSound Select OEM" and then used READ Full Sheets on the CV pane and all seemed to work just fine except the horn. ? ?It does not work when I push the Botton. On all previous attempts I used "LokSound Select"....and the horn worked.
?I am using the Digitrax system with a Windows computer and the very latest (4.17.3) JMRI. ? I have searched thru the DecoderPro options and cannot determine what needs to be done to make the horn work. ?I would really appreciate your help with this problem. ?I really like those Atlas GP-7 locomotives. ? I purchased this locomotive as a new unused locomotive but I noticed the attached paperwork refers to a "Quick Start Guide Version 1.7. ?20 November 2013. ?THANK YOU.....Frank |
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Frank in Houston
Hooray....It is working. I can once again blow the horn. ?I finally got the right LokSound version by calling Atlas and they told me to use LokSound select. ? So now all is working. ?I want to thank ALL who provided information and help in solving this problem for me. ?It seems that these engines were new in the box but a little older than I thought. ?However all is running just fine and many thanks?
Frank |
开云体育Frank, On 3 Aug 2019, at 12:30 AM, Frank in Houston <upitrr@...> wrote: OK DAVE, I will do it. ?THANK YOU AGAIN....I switched from Paged Mode to Direct mode. ?(Yes, much, much faster). ?Next, I placed the Atlas locomotive on the program track. ?I then used "Read Type from Decoder" and DecoderPro identified the manufacturer as ESU...however DecoderPro then highlighted about 80 % of the listed Decoder types. ?So I chose "LokSound Select OEM" and then used READ Full Sheets on the CV pane and all seemed to work just fine except the horn. ???It does not work when I push the Botton. On all previous attempts I used "LokSound Select"....and the horn worked. This concerns me greatly. The latest JMRI version should uniquely identify every LokSound V4/Select/Essential Sound Unit/5 decoder manufactured ?by ESU and supported by ESU's LokProgrammer V5.0.7. Please perform the following test for me: 1) Place your loco on the the Program Track. 2) Using "Direct Mode", do a New Loco->Read Type From Decoder. 3) Don't create a new loco, simply close the Window (tell us how many it picked). 4) Go to the Help->System Console window and you should see a line like this: "IdentifyDecoder INFO ?- Decoder returns?mfgID:151;modelID:255;productID:33554511" 5) Please Select, Copy and Paste that line into a message for me. I need to see the three values it is returning for?mfgID, modelID and productID. Dave in Australia |
开云体育I hesitate to add anything to Dave's wisdom but first thing I
would do is delete that first attempt. If not It could cause
problems. You don't have to ask me how I know ! Rick. On 8/2/2019 7:18 PM, Dave Heap wrote:
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Frank in Houston
Dave...Sorry for the delay.
A)When I originally placed the locomotive on the Program track and did a "Read type from the decoder" it identified ESU but highlighted a majority of the decoders listed in the menu. B) So I called ATLAS and obtained the version number (4) and used the LokSound 4 Select and selected that decoder from the ESU menu C) I then downloaded the CV's as you instructed and all works fine. THE REASON I AM EXPLAINING ALL THIS I just did as you requested and again placed that same locomotive on the programing track.? This time the "Read type from the decoder" properly identified the LokSound Select.? What I cannot tell you is, did it identify the correct "Select" decoder because I had downloaded the CV's using that selection OR did it properly identify? the decoder type from the decoder as it should.? I do not know. Sorry, that is all I can tell you.? If I can help any further please let me know.? THANK YOU for your help Frank? |
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Frank,
On 3 Aug 2019, at 12:18 PM, Frank in Houston <upitrr@...> wrote:It sounds like the original "Read type from the decoder" didn't complete satisfactorily. I just did some tests of deliberately disconnecting (simulating poor track conditions) an ESU Select decoder during identification. Instead of showing an error, JMRI simply highlighted many ESU decoders and asked me to pick manually. That's a programming deficiency in the JMRI IdentifyDecoder code. Dave in Australia |
开云体育Frank, That's a programming deficiency in the JMRI IdentifyDecoder code. I conducted more extensive tests, using my NCE Power Pro system with a SoundTraxx PTB-100 programming track booster and a ESU Select decoder in an ESU decoder tester, as well as tests with a SPROG and NCE Power Cab system. I was able to reliably reproduce a misidentification under simulated dirty-track conditions with all three systems. I've come to the conclusion that the problem is due to the interaction of the legacy NMRA Paged Mode protocol and modern Sound Decoders. There's probably not a lot we can do with JMRI code to avoid this. (Skip to the Summary section if you aren't interested in the technical aspects. It explains how to watch out for and avoid misidentification.) The Technical Explanation: 1) Under simulated dirty-track conditions, my DCC system can reproducibly return a successful but incorrect CV value to the IdentifyDecoder (and presumably any other) JMRI routine when using Paged Mode. This is because the interruption and restoration of programming track power during a Paged CV read creates a sufficient current pulse to return a false ACK to the DCC system during a Paged Mode "Is it 1, is it 2, is it 3..." routine. JMRI can't prevent this from happening. I was also able to reproduce this misidentification problem with both my SPROG IIv3 and my NCE Power Cab system. 2) While some DCC systems support only Paged Mode, most modern systems now support a Direct mode that is much faster and more reliable (with most systems).? 3) Some legacy decoders support only Paged Mode, most modern decoders support a Direct mode. 4)?We tell JMRI to always start an Identify with the best available DCC system mode (usually Direct). 5)?Since we know nothing about the decoder on the program track, if?more than a certain number of Direct mode reads fail we have to assume that the decoder may not support Direct mode and switch to Paged mode. But this mode cannot be trusted with a modern sound decoder, either for identification or decoder programming, with at least with the systems I tested. Summary: We're open to practical suggestions how the JMRI IdentifyDecoder routine can be improved (while keeping in mind the constraints above), but at this stage the best I can suggest is that: A) If you see "Programming Mode" change to "Paged" in the "Create New Loco" window at any time during Read Type from Decoder of an ESU (or other modern sound decoder), be very suspicious of the result. Wait until identification has completely finished, switch back to a "Direct" mode and try again. B) Don't trust Paged mode reads while programming a loco with an ESU (or other modern sound decoder). C) If your DCC system doesn't support a Direct mode, buy a JMRI-compatible specialised Programmer such as the SPROG or NCE Power Cab or... Unsettling results, but a workaround is available. Dave in Australia |
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Frank in Houston
Very interesting....THANK YOU...
Another question please. ?My locomotive (HO Atlas GP-7) with the ESU LokSound Select is a used locomotive (advertised as new old stock, but I no longer believe it). ?I use the Digitrax system and as you know DecoderPro...latest revision 4.17.3). When I do a Factory reset...AND then run the locomotive with address..3....all works as expected except for a noise that sounds like an engine fan of some sort. ?When I "SHIFT-F-8" all sounds stop as they should EXCEPT this simulated engine fan. ?I suspect the previous owner edited a CV that is not influenced with the ATLAS factory reset system since it was not part of the Atlas programming.? Is there a way to find out what CV (or combination of CV's) ?is running that simulated fan noise so I can stop it? ?Can I use DecoderPro to find that CV? THANK YOU ONCE AGAIN.......Frank |
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Oh boy.
Not familliar with Loksound decoders. Do read type from decoder (There are several different flavors) Put the lok on the programming track, New Entry, Read Type from Decoder. Open the roster entry page, hit read all sheets, and go have lunch. Likely takes about 50-60 minutes to read all 1200 CV. After that finishes, do "Read changes on all sheets". Do the above before looking at any CV settings. There are workarounds I use, but for a first timer, this is needed. After you finish the read, look at the function mapping pane. Each line tells what function key is assigned to which output and/or sound. Look for F8 and not F8, as there can be several lines for each function key. The main F8 should say On, Sound Slot 1.? For help from the Loksound group, go to the information pane and screen shot or copy that information. That tells what sound set is loaded. Loksounds can completely change how they behave based on loaded sound project. Thomas DeSoto, TX ? Save roster entry.? |
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Frank,
On 4 Aug 2019, at 1:46 AM, Frank in Houston <upitrr@...> wrote:All CVs are reset by an ESU (JMRI Program Track->Resets menu). Once you've Reset, Read All CVs as per my earlier instructions, saved and closed the roster entry, you can: - Reopen the saved Roster Entry using Program on Main. - Put loco on Main and activate sound. - Go to Sound Levels pane. - Move the slider for Random Sounds to zero. Write Changes on Sheet. See if sound stops. - Move the slider for Sound Slot 1 to zero. Write Changes on Sheet. See if sound stops. - Move the slider for Sound Slot 2 to zero. Write Changes on Sheet. See if sound stops. - Move the slider for Sound Slot 3 to zero. Write Changes on Sheet. See if sound stops. - Repeat as needed until you find the offending sound slot. Once found, get back to us with the information for further instructions. Dave in Australia |
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Frank,
On 6 Aug 2019, at 6:51 AM, Frank in Houston <upitrr@...> wrote:- Make sure you have read the Function Map pane. - Look for a row (or rows) that contain(s) "Sound Slot 8" in the Sounds column. - Look in the Conditions column for the row(s) that mentioned "Sound Slot 8". The Conditions column will detail the F key(s) that trigger "Sound Slot 8". If the Fan Sound is only a problem when the loco is shut down, you could simply check the "Requires Drive Sound" checkbox next to "Sound Slot 8" on the Sound Levels pane. Also set the desired volume and Write Changes on Sheet. Dave in Australia |
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