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Locked Panel Pro - Layout Editor - looking for up to date Tutorial
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Hello JMRI group, I’m new to the group and looking for Help.
Intro ?I’ve dabbled with Panel Pro over the last 2 years to the extent of creating a plausible US&S CTC panel with layout model board across the top. ?The board has NO working logic. Now at the stage of needing to design the signaling system to work I’ve started LAYOUT EDITOR, ?but having great difficulty getting in..... ?The only tutorial I can find is by Dave Duchamp’s NMRA presentation dated 2008 does not cover the current version of Panel Pro, 4.12? Any guidance appreciated, starting from scratch. ? MY INITIAL OBJECTIVE IS A WORKING LOGIC INTERLOCKING PLANT USING LAYOUT EDITOR Eventual ambition Merging LAYOUT EDITOR drawing with WORKING CTC PANEL AND LAYOUT SIGNALS controlled by MRCS /CMRI logic At the moment I cannot get past drawing a turnout, track segment and Tools-Tables-Turnouts, without them fighting each other !!!!! My current set up? a) lap top Samsung - Windows 7 b) Panel Pro ?4.12+Rb6a9bb1 c) Java 1.8.0_191 Previous set up - CTC panel? a) lap top Samsung - Windows 7 b) Panel Pro ?4.10 c) Java 1.6? Guidance appreciated? John pearson? |
开云体育I made a 3-part video series on the basics of how i did signals for a diorama. Here is a link to part one.
https://youtu.be/5SQqz6pikV4 If you have any questions on the videos, id be glad to help. Steven Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. -------- Original message --------
From: John Pearson <pearsonjohn99@...> Date:12/02/2018 9:57 AM (GMT-06:00) To: [email protected] Cc: Subject: [jmriusers] Panel Pro - Layout Editor - looking for up to date Tutorial Hello JMRI group, I’m new to the group and looking for Help. Intro ?I’ve dabbled with Panel Pro over the last 2 years to the extent of creating a plausible US&S CTC panel with layout model board across the top. ?The board has NO working logic. Now at the stage of needing to design the signaling system to work I’ve started LAYOUT EDITOR, ?but having great difficulty getting in..... ?The only tutorial I can find is by Dave Duchamp’s NMRA presentation dated 2008 does not cover the current version of Panel Pro, 4.12? Any guidance appreciated, starting from scratch. ? MY INITIAL OBJECTIVE IS A WORKING LOGIC INTERLOCKING PLANT USING LAYOUT EDITOR Eventual ambition Merging LAYOUT EDITOR drawing with WORKING CTC PANEL AND LAYOUT SIGNALS controlled by MRCS /CMRI logic At the moment I cannot get past drawing a turnout, track segment and Tools-Tables-Turnouts, without them fighting each other !!!!! My current set up? a) lap top Samsung - Windows 7 b) Panel Pro ?4.12+Rb6a9bb1 c) Java 1.8.0_191 Previous set up - CTC panel? a) lap top Samsung - Windows 7 b) Panel Pro ?4.10 c) Java 1.6? Guidance appreciated? John pearson? |
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John,
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Take a look at? The signaling section is based on signal heads and SSL rather than signal masts and signal mast logic. Listed below are the steps that I use for a new Layout Editor Panel. ?The steps are based on using the appropriate simulation mode for the hardware. ?I also use signal masts and signal mast logic for all of my designs. ?
Obviously there are a lot of details missing, but it provides a general flow. Step 5 is very important. ?Since you are talking about interlocking plants, the block topology must be correct. ?The basic rule is that each turnout or turnout group must be its own block. ?This provides the necessary block boundaries for placing signal masts which protect the interlocking. Dave Sand On Dec 2, 2018, at 4:29 AM, John Pearson <pearsonjohn99@...> wrote: |
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Steven Thank you for the prompt reply? I had a look at Part 1, it is well presented but unfortunately you diverge from my path very early by your choice of DCC control and Digitrax. My path is to avoid DCC signal control ( with the exception of loco cuurent draw )? and seperate signalling forom traction a per CMRI or its derivation MRCS where input / outputs are to and from panel switches or track sensors etc. I appreciate and thank you for your response and wish you every success and fun in the model RR hobby Thank you? John? On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 5:54 PM steven hamilton <stevelton17@...> wrote:
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Dave? Quick response appreciated, thank you. a few comments / observations / Questions? 1) your listed order of actions easy to follow, I'll try it out tomorrow on a simple test diag? 2) Found Quaker valley ok lots of writing but they sem to be persuing my objective ,? Not sure at this stage what the difference between Sig Heads and SSL &? Sig Masts + Signal Mast logic? might be, I'll think about and reasearch.? ? ?( SSL ? please,? ?Single Signal Lamp ?)? 3) Also your warning about turnouts becoming "blocks" is significant as I was lumping them in with track segments / bigger blocks..... A crossover between two main lines would become a block in its own right? Or does it split in the centre between the two parallel tracks ? No doubt the reason that Interlocking drawings label turnouts with an OS number and detect vehicles on the OS..? ? Is joining two turnouts throat to throat acceptable as one OS item ? ( Guess it becomes a double slip ). Many?thanks for your assistance?? John Pearson ? On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 6:01 PM Dave Sand <ds@...> wrote:
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John,
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When thinking about signaling, think about the characteristics that you you want. I prefer western US practices which are primarily route signaling with implied speeds. Eastern US tends to be speed signaling which sometimes implies a route. Note: I will probably get some push back on my definitions. The prototype deals with signal masts and their aspects. Signal masts have one or more signal heads. The aspect determines the signal head appearances. A “diverging” aspect is normally indicated by red over green or yellow appearances. Don’t worry about implementation details when working out the signal head/mast question. DCC Signal masts can be signal head based masts or even turnout based masts. A cross-over is always at least two blocks, one for each straight route. A slip (including throat to throat) is always one block, but has two turnouts. Keep in mind that signals protect one or more blocks to the next signal. Including the approach track segment with the turnout moves the signal away from the turnout and makes the control point much larger. A correctly drawn layout editor track plan with a prototypical block topology using signal masts and signal mast logic results in a fully functional ABS signaling system. Dave Sand On Dec 2, 2018, at 4:21 PM, John Pearson <pearsonjohn99@...> wrote: |
开云体育John, I'll make some (many) comments based on my personal opinions. a) Layout editor (LE) is a vector view of your layout. I.e. the
toe bone connects to the foot bone, the foot bone, connects to the
ankle bone, .... It is designed to document and edit the
connectedness of the layout. It only allow for one definition of
each chunk of the layout. (vector) As soon as you have two
turnouts that operate as one (e.g. crossover) or two detectors
that operate as one you need to fight the system to figure out how
to defeat its basic nature. (typically by making an internal
shadow to define the duplicate item) It was never designed to make
a CTC panel drawing in the first place. Doing so is sort of like
trying to use a CAD program to paint a landscape. b) The Control Panel Editor (CPE) is designed to create a pictorial CTC machine (Control Panel) view of your layout. It consists of various icons and images that allow you to recreate either a classic or modern CTC panel with surprising fidelity. It neither knows nor cares how one image or icon connects to another. The disadvantage of that of course is that you need to manual define the items and how they fit together or what they control. The advantage of that is that it will not try to force you into its own way of doing things. c) The Panel Editor (PE) is the original JMRI panel editor which
has been superseded by the Control Panel Editor which has many new
features and ease of use advantages over the original. PE should
have been depreciated years ago, but JMRI seldom does that for
anything. d) Signal heads refers to the class of hardware that can only
control a signal one set of lights at a time. Typically it
controls R, Y, and G lamps. e) Signal Masts refers to an entire signal, be it one head or
many heads, 3 lights per head or 7, etc. Typically it operates by
sending aspect messages, not individual light commands. However if
your hardware doesn't understand aspects, then JMRI can create
signal aspects out of multiple heads. f) SSL stands for Simple Signal Logic. Think 'Simple' as in 'Simple minded', not simple as in 'Easy'. It does basic ABS on single track fairly well. However as soon as you add a crossover or anything more complex you need to cross your eyes and stand on one leg to figure out how to make it work correctly. (mostly done by adding invisible signals and calling them 'distant') g) SML Signal Mast Logic. IMHO This is the way signal logic should always be done. It treats signaling as aspects (per the prototype). It calculates aspects as they relate to pairs of signals, i.e. the signal you are facing paired with the next signal along the path you will be taking. It has built in rules for a growing number of prototype railroads. This saves you a lot of research into how signaling should be done on your railroad. It takes the most complex trackage in its stride. For each signal pair you simply list the correct turnout positions along that route and list all the blocks between this signal and the next. h) NEVER mix SSL and SML unless you enjoy cat fights and detective mysteries. They do not play at all nicely with one another and you will be left wondering just why in the world your signals behave the way they do. i) Crossovers in CTC territory are two blocks. When calculating
any block requirements always think about how many different
trains can occupy any given area at the same time. That is the
number of block detectors required. For single track it is one,
unless the track is long, then it may be several so one train can
follow another. For a single turnout it is one. For a crossover it
is two, one on each side if they are passing. For a yard ladder it
is ........ one. (unless you can switch two parts of the ladder at
the same time somehow) Of course a yard ladder is not usually
signaled, but it makes a nice example. <G> Dick :) On 12/2/2018 5:21 PM, John Pearson
wrote:
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开云体育This needs to be in an FAQ somewhere. Thanks to Dick for a clear definition of the differences. ? From:
[email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of
dick bronson ? John, I'll make some (many) comments based on my personal opinions. a) Layout editor (LE) is a vector view of your layout. I.e. the toe bone connects to the foot bone, the foot bone, connects to the ankle bone, .... It is designed to document and edit the connectedness of the layout. It only allow for one definition of each chunk of the layout. (vector) As soon as you have two turnouts that operate as one (e.g. crossover) or two detectors that operate as one you need to fight the system to figure out how to defeat its basic nature. (typically by making an internal shadow to define the duplicate item) It was never designed to make a CTC panel drawing in the first place. Doing so is sort of like trying to use a CAD program to paint a landscape. b) The Control Panel Editor (CPE) is designed to create a pictorial CTC machine (Control Panel) view of your layout. It consists of various icons and images that allow you to recreate either a classic or modern CTC panel with surprising fidelity. It neither knows nor cares how one image or icon connects to another. The disadvantage of that of course is that you need to manual define the items and how they fit together or what they control. The advantage of that is that it will not try to force you into its own way of doing things. c) The Panel Editor (PE) is the original JMRI panel editor which has been superseded by the Control Panel Editor which has many new features and ease of use advantages over the original. PE should have been depreciated years ago, but JMRI seldom does that for anything. d) Signal heads refers to the class of hardware that can only control a signal one set of lights at a time. Typically it controls R, Y, and G lamps. e) Signal Masts refers to an entire signal, be it one head or many heads, 3 lights per head or 7, etc. Typically it operates by sending aspect messages, not individual light commands. However if your hardware doesn't understand aspects, then JMRI can create signal aspects out of multiple heads. f) SSL stands for Simple Signal Logic. Think 'Simple' as in 'Simple minded', not simple as in 'Easy'. It does basic ABS on single track fairly well. However as soon as you add a crossover or anything more complex you need to cross your eyes and stand on one leg to figure out how to make it work correctly. (mostly done by adding invisible signals and calling them 'distant') g) SML Signal Mast Logic. IMHO This is the way signal logic should always be done. It treats signaling as aspects (per the prototype). It calculates aspects as they relate to pairs of signals, i.e. the signal you are facing paired with the next signal along the path you will be taking. It has built in rules for a growing number of prototype railroads. This saves you a lot of research into how signaling should be done on your railroad. It takes the most complex trackage in its stride. For each signal pair you simply list the correct turnout positions along that route and list all the blocks between this signal and the next. h) NEVER mix SSL and SML unless you enjoy cat fights and detective mysteries. They do not play at all nicely with one another and you will be left wondering just why in the world your signals behave the way they do. i) Crossovers in CTC territory are two blocks. When calculating any block requirements always think about how many different trains can occupy any given area at the same time. That is the number of block detectors required. For single track it is one, unless the track is long, then it may be several so one train can follow another. For a single turnout it is one. For a crossover it is two, one on each side if they are passing. For a yard ladder it is ........ one. (unless you can switch two parts of the ladder at the same time somehow) Of course a yard ladder is not usually signaled, but it makes a nice example. <G> Dick :) ._,_._,_ |
Paul Davidson