Hopefully Dave can answer this. I loaded sound file #73825 into lok sound select direct. Also printed out function sheet from lok website. Read the decoder. Function map does not match the functions from the website. I think the D.P.function map was created before the drive hold feature went into affect ??? Thanks, Rick.

For LokSound decoders, Decoder Pro function map pane is blank until you read the decoder. Every LokSound project has the capability of being completely unique. There is no set or standard function mapping. It would take thousands of unique definitions to cover all the possibilities and that isn't practical for anyone to spend their time programming. So until you read the decoder, you have no function map pane with any valid information.? If your project is showing different function mapping than the ESU bulletin for that project, then either the bulletin is wrong (I have personally never encountered this) or you have not gotten a thorough read of your decoder or the project did not write fully from LokProgrammer or some other problem. But DP having the wrong functions is not the culprit. It only reads what is there.

Was there another project on that decoder before you loaded 73825? Maybe the function mapping from a previous project did not get overwritten in LokProgrammer.

Have you checked the bulletin against the function mapping in LokProgrammer?

I think Rick is expecting the Function Labels to be read from the decoder...

This only happens with a Marklin mfx decoder on a controller that uses the mfx protocol.

I am not familiar enough with railcom to know if that will do it too.

Either way a standard v3.5 decoder will not do it.

The Function Labels are not stored in the decoder, only in the project file.

--?

Dave in Australia

The New England Convention 2018

On 29 Aug 2018, at 8:59 PM, Alan B. Pearce <alan.b.pearce@...> wrote:

I think Rick is expecting the Function Labels to be read from the decoder...

This only happens with a Marklin mfx decoder on a controller that uses the mfx protocol.

I am not familiar enough with railcom to know if that will do it too.

Either way a standard v3.5 decoder will not do it.

Actually the template for the function mapping is what possibly Dave has written in the software when the D. P. function map was created. I am a devoted user of D.P. and maybe wishing the more current F.T. definitions would appear in Decoder pro.

?

Tom, Dave, I first want to say I appreciate your help. I did print out Daves instructions and your response. I would call this a cluster of sorts. I have loaded sound files into lok decoders quite a few times, then opened decoder pro, read the decoder, make the changes i want, test on the program track and then often on the layout. What happened this time I don't know ? I went to the lok website, downloads, select retail files found the SD70ACe file, downloaded it, opened it which started the lok programmer, read the decoder data, wrote new data, wrote the sound data, and then tested with the Driver. ALL good or so it seemed. I also printed out the Functions from the sound file. Then i moved to decoder pro, new loco, read as lok sound select, opened the comprehensive programmer, typed in some data, read the decoder (takes almost an hour) and that is where things went to heck. The sound file loaded into the lok decoder was an old version without F.T. features, how that happene i have no idea. F9 was spool up, F11 was spool down, etc. I did the whole process a second time. After I posted in the forum. Still no real joy. I sent an email to Matt. He is really good aout answering my questions but no reply so i called. Found out Matt had company so was tied up today., Tech guy is only there Tuesday and Thursday. I explained to Abbie the situation. She asked what version is my programmer software, answer 4.6.1 She said that could be the problem. Downloaded V4.7.2 and installed. Downloaded the sound file for the third time. Open programmer, read data, write data, write sound, you know the drill. This was all with the micro select plugged into the Lok decoder tester. To wrap this up. Correct sound file with F.T. features, worked great in the tester. Made the changes I wanted and popped the decoder back onto the pcboard hard wired to the loco. Still good. Now to wire it back up with keep alive, VR1.5 for lights and test again. The defauilt horn is garbled with the bell ringing, fortunately there are other horn choices. Also I have not mentioned the cluster with the lighting.!! Not to mention the Genesis F45 that was not in the list of TSU2 decoders and then the fact that Athearn makes you changfe CV1.403 BEFORE you program independent brakes, train brakes. It has been a tough decoder week, Hope you can make some sense out of this. Rick.

There is no Template for the Function Map in DecoderPro, for the reasons Tom explained. When you open a new LokSound V4 or Select roster entry, the entire Function Map pane will be blank.

Once you have Read Full Sheet into DecoderPro, the Function Map pane will no longer be blank. It will look almost exactly like the Function Map pane in LokProgrammer V4.7.2 for the same decoder, except the Sound Slots Column will have generic names (Sound Slot 1, etc.) because it is impossible for JMRI to read the Sound Slot labels from the decoder (even LokProgrammer cannot read them from a Select project).

As far as the Function Labels pane is concerned, it is impossible for either JMRI or LokProgrammer to read them from the decoder, because they are not stored in the decoder. They are only stored in the ESU Project File, nowhere else.

--?

Dave in Australia

The New England Convention 2018

On 30 Aug 2018, at 2:30 AM, Richard Knight <enginman@...> wrote:

Actually the template for the function mapping is what possibly Dave has written in the software when the D. P. function map was created. I am a devoted user of D.P. and maybe wishing the more current F.T. definitions would appear in Decoder pro.

Hi Rick,

One thing I’m noticing with your procedure is that you download the file, then make changes, then test…..

?

You should ALWAYS test BEFORE making any changes. This way you know if there is a sound file issue or if the issue lies with the data you are writing. If you have a saved file in JMRI that has function mapping set up for manual notching and not FT then you are overwriting the FT mapping before you test to see if it works.

?

Please start all over. Download the file. Load it into the decoder, then test before changing ANY CVs to see if F9 is drive hold.

?

This will tell a lot of information.

?

Thank you

Best Regards,

Matt Herman

ESU LLC

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Richard Knight
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 10:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Decoder pro V4.13.2 Lok sound select direct.

?

Tom, Dave, I first want to say I appreciate your help. I did print out Daves instructions and your response. I would call this a cluster of sorts. I have loaded sound files into lok decoders quite a few times, then opened decoder pro, read the decoder, make the changes i want, test on the program track and then often on the layout. What happened this time I don't know ? I went to the lok website, downloads, select retail files found the SD70ACe file, downloaded it, opened it which started the lok programmer, read the decoder data, wrote new data, wrote the sound data, and then tested with the Driver. ALL good or so it seemed. I also printed out the Functions from the sound file. Then i moved to decoder pro, new loco, read as lok sound select, opened the comprehensive programmer, typed in some data, read the decoder (takes almost an hour) and that is where things went to heck. The sound file loaded into the lok decoder was an old version without F.T. features, how that happene i have no idea. F9 was spool up, F11 was spool down, etc. I did the whole process a second time. After I posted in the forum. Still no real joy. I sent an email to Matt. He is really good aout answering my questions but no reply so i called. Found out Matt had company so was tied up today., Tech guy is only there Tuesday and Thursday. I explained to Abbie the situation. She asked what version is my programmer software, answer 4.6.1 She said that could be the problem. Downloaded V4.7.2 and installed. Downloaded the sound file for the third time. Open programmer, read data, write data, write sound, you know the drill. This was all with the micro select plugged into the Lok decoder tester. To wrap this up. Correct sound file with F.T. features, worked great in the tester. Made the changes I wanted and popped the decoder back onto the pcboard hard wired to the loco. Still good. Now to wire it back up with keep alive, VR1.5 for lights and test again. The defauilt horn is garbled with the bell ringing, fortunately there are other horn choices. Also I have not mentioned the cluster with the lighting.!! Not to mention the Genesis F45 that was not in the list of TSU2 decoders and then the fact that Athearn makes you changfe CV1.403 BEFORE you program independent brakes, train brakes. It has been a tough decoder week, Hope you can make some sense out of this. Rick.

See below:

On 1 Sep 2018, at 1:58 AM, Richard Knight <enginman@...> wrote:

Dave, Fine, Is it possible for you? or someone to populate the function labels the same way all the others populate the Function labels? Such as when I Identify a TSU, TSU2,TCS, Digitraxx, QSI or most any other decoder I read and have the function labels appear ?

Possible to load one generic set, as I once did but later removed.

Matt seems to be using a standard format for the Full Throttle files for Functions and function labels. I know about the free form of the sound slots but there is a pattern to what Matt is doing.

Matt convinced me to use a "standard" set some years ago and I did. As soon as Full Throttle came out they were not correct. Straight away we had a problem; there's no way JMRI can currently tell whether a project is FT or not. Then came the proliferation of third-party project developers, particularly in Europe and Australia, each with their own custom set. I was getting more and more user complaints on both this and the LokSound lists about decoders not behaving as per the Function and Sound labels in JMRI, so I took the decision to supply no defaults and instead make the user do their own homework. The "standard" set was too often misleading users, not helping.

Some time later a translator "helpfully" added F0 lights, F1 Sound & F2 Horn. He was from Europe and that's the European "standard"! I pointed out that the USA "standard" is F0 lights, F1 Bell, F2 Horn and F8 Sound, while the Australian "standard" doesn't have Bell, F1 is often repurposed for another function and some projects separate Sound Startup and Volume/Mute to different keys (say F6 and F8).

I compromised by having F0 lights & F2 Horn in all defaults and F1 Sound in German.

I'm not happy to mislead many users in order to make life easier to one particular group. JMRI should never mislead, if it doesn't know it should remain silent, not guess.

I'd like to implement user-editable Sound Labels, but that's not at the top of my JMRI ESU priority list. My top-priority one (reading the Sound Project name from the decoder) has been sitting there for four years already, despite being near completion then. My life has become much busier since then and attempts to get back are always being thwarted by even more urgent current priorities (one of which is the Essential Sound Unit, where there is a problem I am currently try to resolve with ESU).

I move functions, function labels, sound slots whatever, whatever I need to do. As to Decoder Pro Reading the Function Pane, I understand.

I'm glad you do.

The REAL point in this is that I went to the LOk website, downloaded the appropriate sound file, read the data of the decoder all was correct, loaded the sound file and ended up with a non Full Throttle sound file. How does that happen. This is the second or third time this has happened and this is before evr swtichuing to Decoder pro. Rick.

I have a few ideas how this happened:
- One possibility is that you didn't have "Overwrite Defaults with Current Values" set in LokProgrammer when you loaded the Project (you need to load sounds, CVs and Defaults). Otherwise a simple decoder reset will return function mapping (and everything else, including Project Name) to whatever was previously loaded in the decoder.

- However, I've just noticed what I now surmise is your particular problem; I noticed "downloaded the appropriate sound file, read the data of the decoder all was correct, loaded the sound file and ended up with...". That's almost certainly your problem, your "read decoder data" overwrote all the FT settings (including Function Mapping, Project Name, etc.) for the new FT project with whatever was appropriate for the old (probably non-FT) project previously in your decoder.

Dave in Australia

I was talking to Abbie yesterday and she said don't read or write the data separately just write the sound file. I think this issue for me has been solved. Thank you. I can't tell how much time I have wasted (learning) trying to figure this out.

Comments:

1) "just write the sound file" presupposes that you have both "write decoder data" and "overwrite defaults with current data" checked in the dialog box that pops up.

2) "don't read ... the data separately ". I agree with Abbie on this one. It was your undoing.

3) "don't ... write the data separately ". I used to write both at once but frequently experienced write failures. I switched to writing sound and data separately and no longer have write failures. Some other users on the LokSound list experiencing frequent failures have found my suggestion helpful.

4) It doesn't matter how many times you "write data" or whether you write before, during or after sound data (or all of the above). All that matters is that you:

? ? a) Write the data at least once.

? ? b) Overwrite Defaults when you write data (unless this is a temporary data change

? ? ? ? ? for some testing purpose).

? ? c) Make sure you are using the correct data. That was your undoing.

--?

Dave in Australia

The New England Convention 2018

On 2 Sep 2018, at 2:15 AM, Richard Knight <enginman@...> wrote:

I was talking to Abbie yesterday and she said don't read or write the data separately just write the sound file. I think this issue for me has been solved. Thank you. I can't tell how much time I have wasted (learning) trying to figure this out.

Where I see a problem is when I do an install and populate the function labeling from the Function sheet I print from the website all is good. When I give the job to the customer or bring it to the club and install the loco in the roster the function labels will not be populated, unless one is aware of the need to add them manually. So there is a certain amount of confusion "baked into " the function labeling" and for sure some confusion over the Function pane and how to manipulate it. Reading a Lok Sound decoder fully at the club is almost impossible due too the time it takes (using decoder pro). The solution there may be to add a lok programmer to the clubs set up.