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Hi All, I run 1.20.3 locomotive with dcc and have just started using JMRI. I have added some of my locomotives to the roster using Panel Pro and have not had too much trouble. What I don't understand is how to add a locomotive which uses one decoder for motor (NCE D405SR) and one for the sound (Phoenix Sound PB11) in the same locomotive. The NCE decoders seem to be well represented but for sound only like Phoenix I don't see anything listed. I don't know how to create a loco in the roster with two decoders in the same loco even if both were in the decoder list. As I said, I am new to JMRI and it is a little overwhelming in the beginning so please bear with any dumb questions I might not realize I am asking.

System Setup:
Dell Inspirion with Core i3 running Windows 7
JMRI 4.4
Java 1.8.0
NCE PH10-R with USB to Serial com port connection
Decoders: NCE D405SR (motor only), Phoenix Sound PB11v6 (sound only), Phoenix Sound P8 (sound only, QSI Titian Steam 6 amp version (motor and sound)

Thanks for reading my post and hope someone can help.
Steve

Don't both decoders have the same address? Shouldn't that be sufficient to add to the roster?

I haven't heard of the Phoenix decoders either. There are other brands of sound-only decoders represented in JMRI.

As far as two-decoder locos are concerned, you just have to create two separate roster entries, one for each loco. They will have the same DCC address, but that is no problem for JMRI. However each loco needs a unique ID so you could do something like "xxxxxx - motor" and "xxxxxx - sound" for the two IDs, that way they will stay adjacent if you sort by ID.

There are special considerations for programming dual-decoder locos:
- Sometimes the two decoders have no conflicting CVs so you can simply program both in tandem. But you will generally not be able to read back CVs in this configuration.
- If both decoders support the NMRA Standard CV15/16 locking you can set up different decoder type IDs in CV16 and use CV15 as the key to unlocking one or other decoder. But you will have to separate the two decoders electrically to initially set up the unique IDs. <>.
- If the decoders do not support CV15/16 locking you can set up different short addresses in CV1 with a common long address in CVs 17 & 18. You then use the long/short address selection bit in CV29. With long address selected you drive the loco. With short address selected you can program each loco separately. But you will have to separate the two decoders electrically to initially set up the unique IDs.
- Or you just separate the two decoders electrically to program them and reconnect when finished.

If all this sounds complicated and confusing, that is one of the reasons most of us avoid sound-only decoders like the plague (there are other reasons as well).
--
Dave in Australia

New England Convention 2016:

Phoenix decoders has a web site at

They seem to only implement a subset of the usual CVs, see page 15 of

Without CV7 and CV8, JMRI can’t identify them. But that might be an OK compromise, because the manufacturer might have picked the decoder’s CVs in such a way that they can be programmed without messing up the co-installed motor decoder.

Bob

On Oct 8, 2016, at 11:13 PM, Dave Heap dgheap@... [jmriusers] <jmriusers@...> wrote:

I haven't heard of the Phoenix decoders either. There are other brands of sound-only decoders represented in JMRI.

As far as two-decoder locos are concerned, you just have to create two separate roster entries, one for each loco. They will have the same DCC address, but that is no problem for JMRI. However each loco needs a unique ID so you could do something like "xxxxxx - motor" and "xxxxxx - sound" for the two IDs, that way they will stay adjacent if you sort by ID.

There are special considerations for programming dual-decoder locos:
- Sometimes the two decoders have no conflicting CVs so you can simply program both in tandem. But you will generally not be able to read back CVs in this configuration.
- If both decoders support the NMRA Standard CV15/16 locking you can set up different decoder type IDs in CV16 and use CV15 as the key to unlocking one or other decoder. But you will have to separate the two decoders electrically to initially set up the unique IDs. <>.
- If the decoders do not support CV15/16 locking you can set up different short addresses in CV1 with a common long address in CVs 17 & 18. You then use the long/short address selection bit in CV29. With long address selected you drive the loco. With short address selected you can program each loco separately. But you will have to separate the two decoders electrically to initially set up the unique IDs.
- Or you just separate the two decoders electrically to program them and reconnect when finished.

If all this sounds complicated and confusing, that is one of the reasons most of us avoid sound-only decoders like the plague (there are other reasons as well).

Sent from my iPad
--
Dave in Australia

New England Convention 2016:

On 9 Oct 2016, at 9:58 AM, hope4me_81@... [jmriusers] <jmriusers@...> wrote:

Hi All, I run 1.20.3 locomotive with dcc and have just started using JMRI. I have added some of my locomotives to the roster using Panel Pro and have not had too much trouble. What I don't understand is how to add a locomotive which uses one decoder for motor (NCE D405SR) and one for the sound (Phoenix Sound PB11) in the same locomotive. The NCE decoders seem to be well represented but for sound only like Phoenix I don't see anything listed. I don't know how to create a loco in the roster with two decoders in the same loco even if both were in the decoder list. As I said, I am new to JMRI and it is a little overwhelming in the beginning so please bear with any dumb questions I might not realize I am asking.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--
Bob Jacobsen
rgj1927@...

It is. There is no problem having multiple entries with the same DCC address.

But you must give each roster entry a unique ID name.
--
Dave in Australia

New England Convention 2016:

/On 10/8/2016 11:13 PM, Dave Heap dgheap@... [jmriusers] wrote://
/

/I haven't heard of the Phoenix decoders either./

Phoenix have been around a long time. They seem to be for at least O
and larger scales and tin plate. They have been very expensive compared
to the normal HO decoders. I looked at them years ago but spent no more
time when I saw the price (double that of Soundtraxx at the time).

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Steve,



The Phoenix line of decoders is primarily targeted at the large scale locos.
We use a lot of them in RC G gauge and riding scale locos. They use a
dedicated USB connection for configuring (and downloading) their sound. As
such, they use their own application to configure the sound. They have very
few things responding to DCC as far as configuration.



-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team

www.jmri.org

www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org

www.cnymod.com

www.syracusemodelrr.org

Unfortunately the Phoenix line is 'minimal' DCC. They understand taking a
long or short address and a few adjustments so you can make it match your
throttle speed. So while running it can follow the commands to your motor
control an mirror the sound to match.



But since they don't support the CV7/8 combination, normal JMRI actions
would have no idea what decoder it is when you place it on the programming
track. So programming via the 'single CV programmer' is your basic tool. In
this respect even the MTH decoders support the normal DCC convention better.



For our ride on scales, these are great sound decoders. But for DCC, I
personally keep with motor-sound decoders for simplicity. I've worked with
dual decoder systems and the usual problem is keeping them in sync for some
changes and isolated for making other changes. Most reliable I've found is a
connector I can open for either decoder so I know exactly which is being
programmed at a time.

Thank you all for your information and suggestions. I worked with the system today and just used the NCE D405SR as the roster listed decoder and ignored the sound decoder completely. I found that the throttle will still operate both decoders with the same address without issue. Guess as mentioned above as long as there are no conflicting functions JMRI works without knowing the sound decoder is there.

Thanks again
Steve

Dave,

Thanks for the trick with the long and short addresses for multiple
decoders within one engine. I was fiddling with cumbersomely positioned
jumpers all the time when I needed to program something, and this is SO
much easier! True, a bit more discipline is needed when going at it,
because not taking very good care in choosing POM or Program Track can
cause a real mess, but it's a small price to pay.

Wouter

On 9 October 2016 at 07:13, Dave Heap dgheap@... [jmriusers] <
jmriusers@...> wrote:

I haven't heard of the Phoenix decoders either. There are other brands of
sound-only decoders represented in JMRI.

As far as two-decoder locos are concerned, you just have to create two
separate roster entries, one for each loco. They will have the same DCC
address, but that is no problem for JMRI. However each loco needs a unique
ID so you could do something like "xxxxxx - motor" and "xxxxxx - sound" for
the two IDs, that way they will stay adjacent if you sort by ID.

There are special considerations for programming dual-decoder locos:
- Sometimes the two decoders have no conflicting CVs so you can simply
program both in tandem. But you will generally not be able to read back CVs
in this configuration.
- If both decoders support the NMRA Standard CV15/16 locking you can set
up different decoder type IDs in CV16 and use CV15 as the key to unlocking
one or other decoder. But you will have to separate the two decoders
electrically to initially set up the unique IDs. <
Decoder_Programming_Lock>.
- If the decoders do not support CV15/16 locking you can set up different
short addresses in CV1 with a common long address in CVs 17 & 18. You then
use the long/short address selection bit in CV29. With long address
selected you drive the loco. With short address selected you can program
each loco separately. But you will have to separate the two decoders
electrically to initially set up the unique IDs.
- Or you just separate the two decoders electrically to program them and
reconnect when finished.

If all this sounds complicated and confusing, that is one of the reasons
most of us avoid sound-only decoders like the plague (there are other
reasons as well).

Sent from my iPad
--
Dave in Australia

New England Convention 2016:

On 9 Oct 2016, at 9:58 AM, hope4me_81@... [jmriusers] <

jmriusers@...> wrote:

Hi All, I run 1.20.3 locomotive with dcc and have just started using

JMRI. I have added some of my locomotives to the roster using Panel Pro and
have not had too much trouble. What I don't understand is how to add a
locomotive which uses one decoder for motor (NCE D405SR) and one for the
sound (Phoenix Sound PB11) in the same locomotive. The NCE decoders seem to
be well represented but for sound only like Phoenix I don't see anything
listed. I don't know how to create a loco in the roster with two decoders
in the same loco even if both were in the decoder list. As I said, I am new
to JMRI and it is a little overwhelming in the beginning so please bear
with any dumb questions I might not realize I am asking.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]