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On 2/24/2025 11:33 AM, Paul Wash wrote:

Below is a summary of the behavior:
1. The lunar/aux lamp appearance does not go dark when the signal head goes dark.
2. You can set a G/Y/R appearance on the head and then set the head to dark the lunar lamp stays lit.
3. If you set the lunar appearance first and then set the head to dark the lunar goes dark.

Items 1 thru 3 are consistant with the SE74 behavior I have seen when using SE74 OpSw 5 = "C" and SE74 OpSw 41 = "C".

4. Setting aspects - the same holds true as expected - if I set restricting then medium clear for example - the aux stays lit. If I set restricting then set the head to dark - it makes the lunar go dark.
In general - this seems to work fine for the marker over 3 since I want the top red (connected to the aux) always on.

This is a JMRI question, not a Digitrax question. It should be directed at the JMRI-Users list.

The unexpected behavior here is that the lunar seems to be highly dependent on the order of which it is set.

That has _always_ been true of Digitrax' signaling hardware!

I think JMRI expects that the 4th aspect (what you’re calling lunar/aux) is actually dark. When JMRI wants dark, it sets that 4th aspect. When it sets any other aspect, that 4th aspect is turned off by the same operation that turns on the other aspect.

To put it another way, the Digitrax SE hardware has only 4 possible output states: 1 of 4 outputs active. You can’t get it to set two outputs active at the same time.

Bob
—
Bob Jacobsen
rgj1927@...

On 2/24/2025 3:33 PM, billybob experimenter via groups.io wrote:

On 2/24/2025 11:33 AM, Paul Wash wrote:

Below is a summary of the behavior:
1. The lunar/aux lamp appearance does not go dark when the signal head goes dark.
2. You can set a G/Y/R appearance on the head and then set the head to dark the lunar lamp stays lit.
3. If you set the lunar appearance first and then set the head to dark the lunar goes dark.

Items 1 thru 3 are consistant with the SE74 behavior I have seen when using SE74 OpSw 5 = "C" and SE74 OpSw 41 = "C".

4. Setting aspects - the same holds true as expected - if I set restricting then medium clear for example - the aux stays lit. If I set restricting then set the head to dark - it makes the lunar go dark.
In general - this seems to work fine for the marker over 3 since I want the top red (connected to the aux) always on.

This is a JMRI question, not a Digitrax question.? It should be directed at the JMRI-Users list.

(And I thought I was responding to a Digitrax-users list message. OOPS!)

It would be VERY HELPFUL if you were to _tell us_ which "signaling system" you are using. I figure it is a "CPL" or "PL" system, given the "marker over" terminology...

Digitrax support for "color-position-light" and "position-light" signal heads tends to be "awkward" at best. Those who implement those types of signals are going to have to figure out what to do, because Digitrax hasn't been botheredd to figure it out.

(But their lead engineer _might_ become interested. He _really_ likes a challenge - if he doesn't have a bazillion other things going on, both company business and not-company-business. He _could_ create a firmware solution that could make your SE74/JMRI solution "easier", but probably would require separate JMRI programming support. I wouldn't guess whether he would find your challenge "interesting", though.)

If you NEED to use the "Lunar" output of one "head" as a _separate_ head's "Red" lamp, then your "solution" will _probably need_ to be "odd".

(Is this "marker" one that will "always" be displayed with some other head's appearance? Or "always shown"? Would be helpful to know what signaling system you are using...)

The unexpected behavior here is that the lunar seems to be highly dependent on the order of which it is set.

That has _always_ been true of Digitrax' signaling hardware!

On 2/24/2025 3:51 PM, Bob Jacobsen via groups.io wrote:

I think JMRI expects that the 4th aspect (what you’re calling lunar/aux) is actually dark. When JMRI wants dark, it sets that 4th aspect. When it sets any other aspect, that 4th aspect is turned off by the same operation that turns on the other aspect.
To put it another way, the Digitrax SE hardware has only 4 possible output states: 1 of 4 outputs active. You can’t get it to set two outputs active at the same time.

Nope. In SE74 "Aspect mode", a "head" may show:
- one lit of three possible outputs, steadily lit;
- one lit of four possible outputs, steadilt lit;
- one lit of three possible outputs plus the fourth output lit, steadily lit;
- one lit of three possible outputs, "flashing";
- one lit of four possible outputs, "flashing";
- one lit of three possible outputs plus the fourth output lit, both lit lamps "flashing".

SE74's "SE8C mode" does not allow for the "lunar (fourth) appearance".

On 2/24/2025 4:15 PM, Paul Wash wrote:

CSX 1998 signaling system - marker over 3 color high as shown below. The "marker" is the red - always lit.

If that "marker" is always lit, then you could "simply" connect that red LED between the "Common Lo" and "Common Hi" - with an appropriate resistor!

That way JMRI wouldn't need to do anything at all for that always Red "head" (i.e. what you call a "marker").