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Hi, ? If I have a location with only spurs, which also has a remote spur (to be only serviced by a switcher), what is the best way to achieve this? ? Kind regards, ? Noel Purdey ?
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What follows is based on my possibly flawed understanding of your situation, but it sounds similar to my case.
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You have through trains that pick up and drop cuts of cars at a location to be switched by a local job.
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I would identify the location of most spurs as Location, and create a second station for the remote spur called Remote. Note that these don't have to appear on your overall timetable, and they could have names like Location and Location_.
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I establishe a route that goes from Location to Remote to Location, and create a train that follows this route.
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Thus each job of the switcher consists of doing work at Location, followed by a trip to Remote and back to work that spur. The system may tell you to take your whole train to Remote, but the wise operator can simplify that by leaving behind all cars not needed at Remote.
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If I've misunderstood your situation, please provide more details.
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Cheers,
/ Bruce /
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I use a similar scenario.
A through freight drops a cut at a location that has one track as a yard, the rest are spurs.
A road switcher services this location and local industry spurs.
The road switcher then returns pick ups to the yard track for pickup by another through freight.
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I use a yard track because spurs change loads.
If a spur is set NOT to change loads, then you'll never get a load change at that spur.
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If you absolutely need to preserve all spurs, then you could possibly create a fake yard on a spur.
You just have to keep track of what rolling stock is on a spur and which needs switching.
Keep in mind the number cars can be stored on that track since you may have conflicts with overloading.
--
Ken NYNH&H, Old Colony Division, Cape Cod Branch (1949-1959) Loconet * JMRI 5.11.1 * OSX,Win10,Ubuntu
Blog: ?
Youtube:
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On Wed, Jan 15, 2025 at 04:00 PM, Noel Purdey wrote:
If I have a location with only spurs, which also has a remote spur (to be only serviced by a switcher), what is the best way to achieve this?
Noel,
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The idea of a "remote" spur is what, exactly?? Do you have a train that you want to only serve the one location and need to know how to set this up?
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The basic idea of the one-location switcher is covered in this Help file section... ?
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If you have another idea in mind, we'll probably need a bit more info (spell out the details)...
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Happy to help, hope it helps,
<Pete Johnson>
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Hi Pete (and everyone else). ? Please allow me to clarify further, and apologies for not being clear in the beginning. ? I have an iron ore mine that receives supplies via rail on an ad hoc basis for the mines benefit, e.g. spare parts, food and fuel. The wagons arrive in a supply train to a specific track, track 5, at the mine. Should this track be classed as a ‘Yard” or ‘Interchange’? That train then picks up new (different) cars to make its way back to the main supply point. There is a switcher assigned to the mine for shifting cars around. I'm aware of the Switcher function as detailed in the hyperlink below, my confusion is, I have a track that serves both the incoming supply train and the Switcher. I'm assuming I have to setup a duplicate of that track so that both supply train and the Switcher can serve that track at different times. Is that correct? ? I’ve created a switcher route with one location. 
I’ve assigned it to a train ? 
? ? Am I on the right path?? ? Thanks for your assistance. ? Regards, ? Noel ? ? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Pete Johnson via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, 18 January 2025 4:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Operations - Switcher #operationspro? On Wed, Jan 15, 2025 at 04:00 PM, Noel Purdey wrote: If I have a location with only spurs, which also has a remote spur (to be only serviced by a switcher), what is the best way to achieve this?
Noel, The idea of a "remote" spur is what, exactly?? Do you have a train that you want to only serve the one location and need to know how to set this up? The basic idea of the one-location switcher is covered in this Help file section... ? If you have another idea in mind, we'll probably need a bit more info (spell out the details)... Happy to help, hope it helps,
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Noel,
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I have a similar setup on my layout where I have an arrivals/departure track, defined as a C/I track where through trains drop cars and pick up others for onwards movement. I have actually defined the track as 2 C/I tracks - one for arrivals and one for departure. They are pooled to allow different number of cars in and out. For the arrivals (your track 5) I allow the through trains to set out, but only the local switcher to pickup. For the departure, it is the reverse, set out by the local switcher and pickup by the through trains. All industry spurs are set to only allow pickups and setouts by the switcher.
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The switcher can only pick up from the arrivals, and will then distribute the cars according to their final destination (I am now a big user of schedules that ensure cars have a final destination). The switcher will then pick up cars with destinations away from the location and put them into the departure track. The through trains can only set out on the arrivals, and pick up from the departure, so will not try to switch the rest of the location.
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Eric
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Well thanks Eric ? ? So, do I need for track 5, an arrival, a departure as well as a switcher (no direction)? ? That’s where I get confused. ? Noel ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Eric Coughlan via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, 19 January 2025 4:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Operations - Switcher #operationspro? I have a similar setup on my layout where I have an arrivals/departure track, defined as a C/I track where through trains drop cars and pick up others for onwards movement. I have actually defined the track as 2 C/I tracks - one for arrivals and one for departure. They are pooled to allow different number of cars in and out. For the arrivals (your track 5) I allow the through trains to set out, but only the local switcher to pickup. For the departure, it is the reverse, set out by the local switcher and pickup by the through trains. All industry spurs are set to only allow pickups and setouts by the switcher. The switcher can only pick up from the arrivals, and will then distribute the cars according to their final destination (I am now a big user of schedules that ensure cars have a final destination). The switcher will then pick up cars with destinations away from the location and put them into the departure track. The through trains can only set out on the arrivals, and pick up from the departure, so will not try to switch the rest of the location.
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Noel,
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You only need your Track 5 to be defined as two separate C/I tracks - one for arrival, and one for departure. Here are screen shots of my two C/I tracks. Note the settings for set outs and pick ups - my switcher is excluded from setting out on the Arrival track, but can pickup, while it is allowed to set out on the Departure track and excluded from picking up.
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These two C/I tracks are linked using a pool, so they combine to be a single track.
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This is the pool definition
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In your case, I would delete your Track 5, create the two C/I tracks and set the Pool name as "Track 5". You could name the Arrivals and Departures as "Track 5 - (Arrive" and "Track 5 - (Depart" so that the switch lists appear as "Track 5" and the concept of Arrivals/Departures is behind the scene. You still need your local switcher to perform the actual moves to/from Track 5 from/to your other Spurs.
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Hope this helps.
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Eric
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Noel,
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You responded directly to me, but I think that your on-going confusion may also be something that others may encounter, so I am replying via the group.
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In your email to me, you state:
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Thanks once more for your assistance.
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I have done as you suggested, however I’m still confused about Track 05 and the switcher serving it.
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The reason for my uncertainty, a switcher has to have no direction defined for it to serve a location.
The new pooled Track 05 is made up of two Interchange tracks that have the direction defined. Is that correct?
Therefore the switcher cannot use Track 05?
Or, have I got it totally wrong?
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Also, I’m very interested to hear about Schedules in the future once I get this sorted out.
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I think that your confusion maybe partially due to the differences of logical tracks and physical tracks. JMRI uses logical tracks and aspects that do not directly relate to the physical setup of a layout. Part of this difference is in the definition of the different spurs which are your industrial tracks. If you indicate that the track does not have a direction, this means that the program will ignore the track when building a train as the direction is an indication as to which trains can service the spur. However, if a train is defined to operate a single location route (which, by the way, must have a direction) the program ignores that direction and basically identifies the train as a switcher. The logic then says that the switcher can service any track at the location, regardless of the direction settings on the spur, yard, C/I. The logic ignores the direction.
However, for a train that stops at the location to drop off / pick up cars, the direction is checked, and if the train direction is the same as the direction indicated on the spur (or yard or C/I), then the program looks to see whether there is a car to be delivered or picked up, and if there is, then it adds that car to the switch list.
As I have got more and more into Ops Pro, I am amazed at the complexity of the logic built into the program (I am now retired, but my entire working life was working with programs and how people used those programs, so I can follow logic paths). The program, when it builds a train, looks at every car that the train may pickup, and determines whether it can deliver that car. If it cannot deliver, it then looks as to whether it can move the car closer to the destination. I have examples on my club's layout where a car needs to go through 4 different trains, two yards and a yard track at a small station to get from source to destination. The program does this check for every car.
So, if your final destination is an industrial spur (which does not have any direction set) the program will recognise this, and will try to move the car to somewhere where another train, in your case the switcher train, can move it to the spur. This stop is your Track 5 (being the logical arrivals track). For cars going from your location, the program will see that the car can move from the spur to Track 5 (logical departure track), and then another train can pick up the car and move it on towards its destination.
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As for using schedules, Pete Johnson has written a 4 part series entitled "Adding Custom loads to PosPro to increase car movement" that you should read, and probably re-read several times to take it all in (I know that I ended up re-reading them multiple times). These documents provide a lot of information as to how schedules work and how they can be used.
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Eric
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Eric -
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I'm trying to follow the logic of using a "switcher", but have run into a snag.
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My situation is this:
I want to use a "switcher" to pick up and set out a variety of cars in a main A/D yard, at 4 different other "sites", each with two spurs.
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?Will it be correct to keep the main A/D yard 'directional' - north/south - and the other 'sites' with their spurs 'direction-less', or should both the main yard and the other "sites" be directional, and only the various spurs direction-less?
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Right now, everything has a 'direction', and seems to run fine, as long as I keep the car types and their locations in perfect harmony.
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Best regards,
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Clarence
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Clarence,
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A key to your question is your reference to other 'sites'. Are these 'sites' different locations in your Ops Pro profile?
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I get the feeling that you have the yard defined as one location, and each of the 'sites' are different locations. This would explain why everything is working as the trains move from one location to another.
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My understanding of Ops Pro logic is that a "switcher" is limited to a single location. The removing of directions from spurs in different locations will actually cause you to have trains fail to build as they cannot service any of the spurs. A blank direction on a spur is an indication to the program that the spur is to be serviced by a "switcher" based at that location, and only at that location.
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I am sure that Pete or Dan will quickly correct my understanding if it is wrong.
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Eric
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On Sat, Jan 18, 2025 at 08:34 PM, Noel Purdey wrote:
I have an iron ore mine that receives supplies via rail on an ad hoc basis for the mines benefit, e.g. spare parts, food and fuel. The wagons arrive in a supply train to a specific track, track 5, at the mine. Should this track be classed as a ‘Yard” or ‘Interchange’?
Noel,
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Since you have not provided much more in the way of details, let me provide some inferred conceptuals...
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If the iron ore mine has a Track 5 (for ad hoc supplies), then are tracks 1-4 for ore loading and are they "spurs" to which you have the "switcher" shifting cars around?
And if you have no directions chosen on these spurs, then they can be worked only by the switcher, and not by the supply train...
However, I am not sure if your cars unload from track 5 or do they need to be moved to another track at the mine (such as a freight dock track)?
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So, if I might try to express the set up...
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Location = "Mine 01" and is made up of at least 5 tracks.
? ?Tracks 1-3 could be for ore loading and are "Spur"-type tracks with no direction boxes checked.
? ?Track 4 could be the freight dock track, also a "Spur", and it to has no direction boxes checked.
? ?Track 5 is for the exchange of cars between the supply train and the mine switcher, and this track should be a "C/I"-type track, with at least one direction checked.
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This is really all you should need to get cars moved in and out of the mine.? The supply train should have the Location (Mine 01) in it's route and the direction of that visit should match the direction allowed on Track 5.
The mine switcher uses the Route you created and should be able to move the arriving cars to the tracks for spotting and set out those cars for the supply train to haul off.
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This could result in train lists like these,
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For the Mine Switcher...
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And for the Supply Train...
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These are some quick and dirty samples I cobbled together for example.? If you want to see actual loads instead of just E and L, then you should consider custom loads (and as Eric suggested, schedules).
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This initial version requires only 1 physical Track 5, but the program track will need a length long enough to hold both inbound and outbound at any given time.? This allows the two trains to work in either order (i.e. run the Switcher 1st then the Supply, or vise versa).? This should allow you to have both the Local Switcher and the Supply train working Mine 01 without either of them moving cars you don't want them touching...
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Happy to help, hope it helps,
<Pete Johnson>
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On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 11:22 AM, Clarence Zink wrote:
Right now, everything has a 'direction', and seems to run fine, as long as I keep the car types and their locations in perfect harmony.
Clarence,
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My grandad once told me (and apparently others as well)...? If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
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Happy to help, hope it helps,
<Pete Johnson>
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Pete -
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Well, it ain't broke yet!? I've been working on/learning OperationsPro since at least mid 2023, and am trying to keep things simple for me as the programmer/dispatcher, and the operators, some of whom do not know the club layout yet.
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We've gotten through our 5th operating session, the 'morning' of our 2nd "railroad day".? Other than layout glitches, it has been going, um . . . ., successfully.? "Yeah, that's it, that's the ticket!!"? Trains have been run and terminated, there have been minimal corrections made to cars misplaced at locations after a session, and the operators seem to be having fun.??
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A former Train Dispatcher, one of our club members, joined us last night, and we had a good discussion afterwords.? I'm going to try to use what suggestions he had about information on the manifests to clarify things.
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ERIC -
A key to your question is your reference to other 'sites'. Are these 'sites' different locations in your Ops Pro profile?
Yes.? As you figured, each "site" is at a different building I set as a location with a name, and has 1 or 2 spurs.? Here is a shot of what I've got:
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So, from the answers above, I may want to change 8 of the 9 "locations" into "spurs", all under one location, the "LS Main Yard", in order to effectively run a "switcher"??? The LS Main Yard would then have 16 spurs, each named after the activity that takes place at each spot.? Crush, dump, pour, load, etc.
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I understand that rationale.? The only "yard" is the LS main yard (5 tracks, 0 spurs), as each of the other "locations" shown are actually spots to conduct an activity.? I'm also going to have to study "Schedules" before/if I change anything.
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Good ideas.? Interesting!
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We're moving forward and learning, both of which are good things!
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Thanks to everyone for what you've contributed to my understanding and use of JMRI OperationsPro.? I really do appreciate it!
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Best,
Clarence
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On Tue, Jan 21, 2025 at 01:00 AM, Pete Johnson wrote:
Noel,
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Since you have not provided much more in the way of details, let me provide some inferred conceptuals...
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Hey Noel,
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I went back and found an old post of yours, where you were asking about how to increase the number of cars moved by your trains. ?In the build report (that Dan asked you to post), I was able to see some of your track assignments for the Location of Mine 01.
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So, unless you edited/altered the set up you had back in November of 2023,
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Mine 01 - comprised of tracks?
? ?(02 - Mine Fuel Point) / no directions allowed so local swchr only (Track type = Spur)
? ?(05 - Arrival) / allows only southbound trains + local swchr (Track type = C/I)
? ?(06 - Mine Siding) / no directions allowed (Track type = Spur)
? ?(07 - Mine Siding) / no directions allowed (Track type = Spur)
? ?(08 - Departure) / allows only Train (Mine 01 Switcher) to work (Track type = C/I)
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While I am still unsure of how many tracks Mine 01 actually has, those indicated by the build report suggests enough to set up what you want concerning the movement of your cars.
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I would suggest the following... And to clarify about the Local Switcher, it will be able to work tracks with a direction indicated on the track.
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Track 02 - Mine Fuel Point (Spur) / no direction boxes checked / under "Load Options", allow only Tankcar with L.
Track 05 - Arrival (C/I) / check only the South direction box / set length of this track to actual layout length / allow all cars & loads / allow only Mine 01 Switcher to pick up and Local Sweeper to set out.
Track 06 - Mine Siding (Spur) / no direction boxes checked / under "Load Options", allow only Gondola with E.
Track 07 - Mine Siding (Spur) / no direction boxes checked / under "Load Options", allow only Gondola with E.
Track 08 - Departure (C/I) / check only the South direction box / set length of this track to actual layout length / allow all cars & loads / allow only Local Sweeper to pick up and Mine 01 Switcher to set out.
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Consider this a version 2.0 of what I described above. ?This is very similar to what Eric suggested but should preclude having to create extra virtual tracks in the program. ?If you indeed have these physical tracks present and usable, then some altering should get you what you want, with the possible addition of a track for the ad hoc supplies (spare parts, food)...
So, maybe,
Track 03 - Mine Dock (Spur) / no direction boxes checked/ under "Load Options", allow Boxcar with L and Flatcar with L.
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A note about the idea of ad hoc concept of certain cars/loads. ?If you want the occasional car to be sent to the Mine, you may want to set up a schedule in a Port Ronsard spur to generate those loads on an infrequent basis.
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Happy to help, hope it helps,
<Pete Johnson>
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Hi Pete (and others following this thread)? ? My apologies in not responding re the recent posts.? Thank you so much for what you and others, have provided.? As you know only too well, there are many ways to resolve an issue with JMRI, ? I have had a phone coaching session with Eric C. which appears to have resolved most of my problems.? I’m just learning now the correct way to use a switcher, group tracks and schedules. ? Pete, I do like what you have suggested below, I need to study it again and try it out. ? 
? Like Clarance noted, “Good ideas.? Interesting! We're moving forward and learning, both of which are good things! Thanks to everyone for what you've contributed to my understanding and use of JMRI OperationsPro.? I really do appreciate it!” ? Tomorrow my time, I will do some document dumps so that you can see where I’m at. ? Cheers, ? Noel ? ? ? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Pete Johnson via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2025 2:38 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Operations - Switcher #operationspro? On Tue, Jan 21, 2025 at 01:00 AM, Pete Johnson wrote: Since you have not provided much more in the way of details, let me provide some inferred conceptuals...
? I went back and found an old post of yours, where you were asking about how to increase the number of cars moved by your trains. ?In the build report (that Dan asked you to post), I was able to see some of your track assignments for the Location of Mine 01. So, unless you edited/altered the set up you had back in November of 2023, Mine 01 - comprised of tracks?
? ?(02 - Mine Fuel Point) / no directions allowed so local swchr only (Track type = Spur)
? ?(05 - Arrival) / allows only southbound trains + local swchr (Track type = C/I)
? ?(06 - Mine Siding) / no directions allowed (Track type = Spur)
? ?(07 - Mine Siding) / no directions allowed (Track type = Spur)
? ?(08 - Departure) / allows only Train (Mine 01 Switcher) to work (Track type = C/I) While I am still unsure of how many tracks Mine 01 actually has, those indicated by the build report suggests enough to set up what you want concerning the movement of your cars. I would suggest the following... And to clarify about the Local Switcher, it will be able to work tracks with a direction indicated on the track. Track 02 - Mine Fuel Point (Spur) / no direction boxes checked / under "Load Options", allow only Tankcar with L.
Track 05 - Arrival (C/I) / check only the South direction box / set length of this track to actual layout length / allow all cars & loads / allow only Mine 01 Switcher to pick up and Local Sweeper to set out.
Track 06 - Mine Siding (Spur) / no direction boxes checked / under "Load Options", allow only Gondola with E.
Track 07 - Mine Siding (Spur) / no direction boxes checked / under "Load Options", allow only Gondola with E.
Track 08 - Departure (C/I) / check only the South direction box / set length of this track to actual layout length / allow all cars & loads / allow only Local Sweeper to pick up and Mine 01 Switcher to set out. Consider this a version 2.0 of what I described above. ?This is very similar to what Eric suggested but should preclude having to create extra virtual tracks in the program. ?If you indeed have these physical tracks present and usable, then some altering should get you what you want, with the possible addition of a track for the ad hoc supplies (spare parts, food)... Track 03 - Mine Dock (Spur) / no direction boxes checked/ under "Load Options", allow Boxcar with L and Flatcar with L. A note about the idea of ad hoc concept of certain cars/loads. ?If you want the occasional car to be sent to the Mine, you may want to set up a schedule in a Port Ronsard spur to generate those loads on an infrequent basis. Happy to help, hope it helps,
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Bruce A. Metcalf
Ken Heywood