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We will have to disagree here and telling someone that disagrees that it is ridiculous and childlike is nothing more than an opinion, not a constructive one.
Reading what I typed, healthcare isn't the same as any of these other things and if you really want healthcare for everyone make it a right.
Roads weren't built for the general public, they were built to defend this country, electricity wasn't wanted by the people it was feared, it was created and distributed for profit by the rich who had the money to make it happen. They weren't forced to make it happen by some taxing government.
Same with railroads that sent goods, supplies, the government didn't do it, the wealthy did, not out of altruism but out of the desire for profit.

The sometimes you speak about is fine, sit down and figure out your yearly tax burden and you will see that sometimes disappeared a long time ago. Between all the initial income taxes, the sales taxes, the excise taxes and more taxes than can be listed in the storage available to Yahoo in it's wildest dreams you will find that we are all taxed to excess already. I know I for one am at the taxation point that if it increases any more I am ready to cease being a provide to the general public pool of money and become a taker from that pool. The math has ceased to make sense.

--- In mailto:ibmpensionissues%40yahoogroups.com, Sue Runyon wrote:
>
>
> There's no right to electricity in our Constitution either, yet we have done many things in our nation's history to help the poorest among us get electricity - and that has cost the wealthier among us something to subsidize the provision of electricity.
>
> There's nothing in our Constitution about having an Interstate Highway System either. I know plenty of people who will never travel outside their own state, and who could care less if they get strawberries out of season from California.
>
> But sometimes it benefits society as a whole to have the wealthier among us subsidize the provision of services to the poorer among us. That's why our nation, for about 100 years, has approved of and supported a progressive tax structure - to help fund those kinds of things, where the wealthier people, those better able to afford to give up some portion of their income, subsidize the provision of goods and services to other Americans.
>
> Arguing that because there's no "right to healthcare" in our Constitution, we can't do it, is ridiculous and childlike. Even the lawyers arguing against Obamacare in the US Supreme Court didn't try that argument! It's settled law - there needn't be a direct mention in the Constitution.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin W
> To: ibmpensionissues <mailto:ibmpensionissues%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sun, Jul 28, 2013 4:27 pm
> Subject: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Interesting Podcast to Listen To: ObamaCare Invades Your Personal Life
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I would tend to agree with you with one exception. I think rooting out fraud in a right is more important than rooting it out in a privilege.
> On the healthcare I had a conversation some years ago with a Norwegian couple. The issue of course was healthcare. The wife was lecturing me on how health care is a right of all people, her husband commented the fact it is codified in their Constitution.
> When they stopped long enough to listen I asked, "What makes healthcare a right?" Her husband repeated, it is in our Constitution. I laughed and said, have you read the US Constitution? There is nothing about providing healthcare unless you translate providing for the "general welfare". The wife started again telling me how it is common knowledge that healthcare is a God given right that all people have. Before I could reply her husband stopped her, asked her to wait a minute. He muttered something about it not being a "natural right" and then said, "you know, I never realized that healthcare is not part of the US Constitution. You are correct the people of the US don't have a right to healthcare."
> I smiled and said, "Bingo."
> He then understood the issue the same way I do, Until healthcare is part of our Constitution, we have no "right" to it. The government may try to provide it, others in the government may argue against it, but we do not have the right to healthcare.
> Everyone is working this all jacked backwards. We are arguing over how and when when we haven't answered the basic question of right, and placed that right in our founding documents. Get that one thing done and the rest will follow.
>
> --- In mailto:ibmpensionissues%40yahoogroups.com, "Sam Cay" <ceome60@> wrote:
> >
> > Pretty funny post but true even through the sarcasm. I would guess part of the problem is based on "rights" vs. "privileges" . Voting is a right and a drivers licence is a privilege. Health insurance used to be a privilege but it looks like it's becoming a right.
> >
> > --- In mailto:ibmpensionissues%40yahoogroups.com, "Kevin W" wrote:
> > >
> > > This is going to be more of a sarcasm comment than anything else, most likely not worthy of a reply, but here it is.
> > > I find it interesting that we need to setup exchanges to verify peoples identify and status through a government funded database when we keep saying that doing the same thing to validate voters is bad, biased, racial etc. Wouldn't people have the same issue whether it be for health care or voting and wouldn't it be the same negatives?
> > >
> > > I need an id to fish, I need an id to drive, I need and id to open a bank acoount, have health care but not one to vote the people who create all these other things.
> > > And of course the idea of stopping fraud doesn't hold water either since the general statement around voting without id is that we have no basis for assuming or proving fraud. With no id we would have no basis for fraud on our healthcare, we should simply trust everyone.
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:ibmpensionissues%40yahoogroups.com, Sheila Beaudry wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Okay, they are hiring people to help citizens sign up for health insurance through the Exchanges - a good thing.?? They are verifying the person's information through other government database information to reduce the chances of fraud - another good thing.?? I see no difference in hiring people to help people sign up for ACA than for social security or any other government program.?? I certainly needed help figuring all that out.?? The data will be no less secure than the data the social security database.??
> > > > ??
> > > > I don't know whether you all have figured it out yet, but the Republicans have begun another campaign to make people fear the Affordable Care Act.?? They are doing everything they can to confuse people and make them worried so they won't sign up for it because they lost in the election and in the Supreme Court, and can't repeal it.?? The next step is they will try to defund it.?? Check out information you receive through independent fact checking sites.?? Both parties spin things their way, but I have to say the anti-Obama anything folks have brought it to a new level.
> > > >
> > > > From: buckwildbeemer <mailto:no_reply%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > To: mailto:ibmpensionissues%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2013 4:40 PM
> > > > Subject: [ibmpensionissues] Interesting Podcast to Listen To: ObamaCare Invades Your Personal Life
> > > >
> > > > ??
> > > > If you think the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is nosy, wait til you see how ObamaCare will know everything about you. John Merline of Investors.com joins Andrew Malcolm and Melissa Clouthier on the Malcolm Melissa podcast to share his findings. Guaranteed to scare you!
> > > > ===============
> > > > Listen here: (more fun that reading here!)
> > > >
> > > > ===============
> > > > It really only applies to those going into the Exchanges. I sure hope the databases, data hubs are hacker-proofed, especially regarding identity theft, etc.
> > > >
> > > > In case any readers are job hunting, Navigators of the above are being hired:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I *hope* Navigators have a high school diploma and a background check.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

We will have to disagree here and telling someone that disagrees that it is ridiculous and childlike is nothing more than an opinion, not a constructive one.
Reading what I typed, healthcare isn't the same as any of these other things and if you really want healthcare for everyone make it a right.
Roads weren't built for the general public, they were built to defend this country, electricity wasn't wanted by the people it was feared, it was created and distributed for profit by the rich who had the money to make it happen. They weren't forced to make it happen by some taxing government.
Same with railroads that sent goods, supplies, the government didn't do it, the wealthy did, not out of altruism but out of the desire for profit.

The sometimes you speak about is fine, sit down and figure out your yearly tax burden and you will see that sometimes disappeared a long time ago. Between all the initial income taxes, the sales taxes, the excise taxes and more taxes than can be listed in the storage available to Yahoo in it's wildest dreams you will find that we are all taxed to excess already. I know I for one am at the taxation point that if it increases any more I am ready to cease being a provide to the general public pool of money and become a taker from that pool. The math has ceased to make sense.

--- In mailto:ibmpensionissues%40yahoogroups.com, Sue Runyon <Slouise217@...> wrote:
>
>
> There's no right to electricity in our Constitution either, yet we have done many things in our nation's history to help the poorest among us get electricity - and that has cost the wealthier among us something to subsidize the provision of electricity.
>
> There's nothing in our Constitution about having an Interstate Highway System either. I know plenty of people who will never travel outside their own state, and who could care less if they get strawberries out of season from California.
>
> But sometimes it benefits society as a whole to have the wealthier among us subsidize the provision of services to the poorer among us. That's why our nation, for about 100 years, has approved of and supported a progressive tax structure - to help fund those kinds of things, where the wealthier people, those better able to afford to give up some portion of their income, subsidize the provision of goods and services to other Americans.
>
> Arguing that because there's no "right to healthcare" in our Constitution, we can't do it, is ridiculous and childlike. Even the lawyers arguing against Obamacare in the US Supreme Court didn't try that argument! It's settled law - there needn't be a direct mention in the Constitution.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin W <nowwicked@...>
> To: ibmpensionissues <mailto:ibmpensionissues%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sun, Jul 28, 2013 4:27 pm
> Subject: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Interesting Podcast to Listen To: ObamaCare Invades Your Personal Life
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I would tend to agree with you with one exception. I think rooting out fraud in a right is more important than rooting it out in a privilege.
> On the healthcare I had a conversation some years ago with a Norwegian couple. The issue of course was healthcare. The wife was lecturing me on how health care is a right of all people, her husband commented the fact it is codified in their Constitution.
> When they stopped long enough to listen I asked, "What makes healthcare a right?" Her husband repeated, it is in our Constitution. I laughed and said, have you read the US Constitution? There is nothing about providing healthcare unless you translate providing for the "general welfare". The wife started again telling me how it is common knowledge that healthcare is a God given right that all people have. Before I could reply her husband stopped her, asked her to wait a minute. He muttered something about it not being a "natural right" and then said, "you know, I never realized that healthcare is not part of the US Constitution. You are correct the people of the US don't have a right to healthcare."
> I smiled and said, "Bingo."
> He then understood the issue the same way I do, Until healthcare is part of our Constitution, we have no "right" to it. The government may try to provide it, others in the government may argue against it, but we do not have the right to healthcare.
> Everyone is working this all jacked backwards. We are arguing over how and when when we haven't answered the basic question of right, and placed that right in our founding documents. Get that one thing done and the rest will follow.
>
> --- In mailto:ibmpensionissues%40yahoogroups.com, "Sam Cay" <ceome60@> wrote:
> >
> > Pretty funny post but true even through the sarcasm. I would guess part of the problem is based on "rights" vs. "privileges" . Voting is a right and a drivers licence is a privilege. Health insurance used to be a privilege but it looks like it's becoming a right.
> >
> > --- In mailto:ibmpensionissues%40yahoogroups.com, "Kevin W" <nowwicked@> wrote:
> > >
> > > This is going to be more of a sarcasm comment than anything else, most likely not worthy of a reply, but here it is.
> > > I find it interesting that we need to setup exchanges to verify peoples identify and status through a government funded database when we keep saying that doing the same thing to validate voters is bad, biased, racial etc. Wouldn't people have the same issue whether it be for health care or voting and wouldn't it be the same negatives?
> > >
> > > I need an id to fish, I need an id to drive, I need and id to open a bank acoount, have health care but not one to vote the people who create all these other things.
> > > And of course the idea of stopping fraud doesn't hold water either since the general statement around voting without id is that we have no basis for assuming or proving fraud. With no id we would have no basis for fraud on our healthcare, we should simply trust everyone.
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:ibmpensionissues%40yahoogroups.com, Sheila Beaudry <sbbeaudry@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Okay, they are hiring people to help citizens sign up for health insurance through the Exchanges - a good thing.?? They are verifying the person's information through other government database information to reduce the chances of fraud - another good thing.?? I see no difference in hiring people to help people sign up for ACA than for social security or any other government program.?? I certainly needed help figuring all that out.?? The data will be no less secure than the data the social security database.??
> > > > ??
> > > > I don't know whether you all have figured it out yet, but the Republicans have begun another campaign to make people fear the Affordable Care Act.?? They are doing everything they can to confuse people and make them worried so they won't sign up for it because they lost in the election and in the Supreme Court, and can't repeal it.?? The next step is they will try to defund it.?? Check out information you receive through independent fact checking sites.?? Both parties spin things their way, but I have to say the anti-Obama anything folks have brought it to a new level.
> > > >
> > > > From: buckwildbeemer <mailto:no_reply%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > To: mailto:ibmpensionissues%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2013 4:40 PM
> > > > Subject: [ibmpensionissues] Interesting Podcast to Listen To: ObamaCare Invades Your Personal Life
> > > >
> > > > ??
> > > > If you think the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is nosy, wait til you see how ObamaCare will know everything about you. John Merline of Investors.com joins Andrew Malcolm and Melissa Clouthier on the Malcolm Melissa podcast to share his findings. Guaranteed to scare you!
> > > > ===============
> > > > Listen here: (more fun that reading here!)
> > > >
> > > > ===============
> > > > It really only applies to those going into the Exchanges. I sure hope the databases, data hubs are hacker-proofed, especially regarding identity theft, etc.
> > > >
> > > > In case any readers are job hunting, Navigators of the above are being hired:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I *hope* Navigators have a high school diploma and a background check.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>