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---

From: "KenSP@..."
To: ibmpensionissues@...
Cc: ibmpensionissues@...
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 12:00 AM
Subject: Re: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers

?

I think the person who wrote the attached note needs to do more research on the ACA.

First if ACA is so good why does it not apply to members of Congress or the President and their families.? They are exempt including their staff members.

The second thing is he/she should look at is the number of States that have opt out of the new Medicare and Medicaid rules which would have double Medicaid participants in states such as Texas.? Also I think between 30 and 36 States have refused to spend money on setting up the insurance exchanges and therefore this must be done by the Federal Government at their expense. I don't think the Federal Government has the man power or money to set it up and therefore don't hold your breath waiting for the exchange.

As to subsidies for healthcare insurance, where is the money coming from? At the moment, the US government is borrowing 46 cents of every dollar it spends.? US is becoming like Greece and sooner or later cuts in everyone's benefits will have to be made.

Medicare and Social Security is going broke and now ACA will add to the cost.? Someone has to pay? It will be all of us on a fixed pension when inflation comes. Obama tax rate increases on the rich, if passed, will only pay for running the government for 8 days but does nothing to stop the borrowing and printing of money.

The Federal Reserve is printing the money and then buys US Bonds at $50 billion a month. This is how the government is getting some of the money it needs. This is the reason the price of gold keeps going up.? So when you see your grocery bills increase as well as your other expenses and your income (pension and social security) does not, you will know the fixed income retirees are the ones who will truly pay for these great benefits and subsidies.

Finally as to IBM retirement health benefits being excluded form ACA, all IBM and the other companies told Obama is that if included they would drop the retiree health plans.? Legally, they can do this any time. It is in the fine print of the plans.? Could you imagine what would have happen if Obama was telling everyone if they like their plan they could keep it, and then IBM tells its retired employees it is dropping their health care due to ACA.

Regards
an IBM Retiree

----- Original Message -----
From: edward_berkline
Date: Friday, December 28, 2012 9:57 pm
Subject: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers
To: ibmpensionissues@...

> > Anyway, in the recent past, some have posted that retirees who
> > are already covered by their companies health care(no matter
> the
> > cost) will be excluded from ACA. I have a hard time believing that
> > for several reasons.
>
> A certain political party did all they could to prevent changes
> to the current health care system. They view the health care
> exchanges as "government run health care" even though commercial
> insurance companies will be offering insurance on the exchanges.
> Therefore, it makes sense from their point of view to exclude
> as many people as possible from having access to the exchanges.
>
> > 1) It could very well be that ACA coverage could be less expensive
> > then retiree coverage, especially if you're living on the
> > pension(as I am). You might be considered low income and
> quality
> > for the ACA subsidy.
>
> Even though you may be on a pension and have a low income, that
> certain political party doesn't want you to have access to any
> subsidized health insurance because they view that as an expense
> to taxpayers.
>
> > 2) Ibm retiree health care does not cover maintenance and
> > preventive, yet ACA does. How could you be forced to stay with
> > company X retiree health coverage and be forced to pay for
> > preventative? This makes no sense.
>
> Yes, it makes no sense. But IBM and other large companies
> lobbied heavily to make sure that retiree plans were excluded
> from most requirements of the ACA.
>
> > 3) For those on FHA, if your notional FHA dollars are burned up
> > before age 65, could you really expected to pay the full cost of
> > your retiree health care when you may be able to get ACA for maybe
> > half the cost?
>
> I think you are dreaming if you think that insurance on the
> exchanges will be half the cost of what IBM charges. Perhaps if
> you were eligible for a substantial subsidy it might be. But as
> I said, I doubt that IBMers will be allowed to have access, even
> at full cost.
>
> --- In ibmpensionissues@..., "teamb562"
> wrote:
> >
> > "Can anyone explain how the ACA benefits those IBM retirees...."
> >
> > Yes, that was the main reason I posted this article. I've been
> searching for answers on how ACA dovetails with current retiree
> benefits and have gotten no where. I posted it here since
> discussion about ACA is stupidly prohibited by Kathy on the
> ibmpension board.
> >
> > Anyway, in the recent past, some have posted that retirees who
> are already covered by their companies health care(no matter the
> cost) will be excluded from ACA. I have a hard time believing
> that for several reasons.
> >
> > 1)It could very well be that ACA coverage could be less
> expensive then retiree coverage, especially if you're living on
> the pension(as I am). You might be considered low income and
> quality for the ACA subsidy.
> >
> > 2)Ibm retiree health care does not cover maintenance and
> preventive, yet ACA does. How could you be forced to stay with
> company X retiree health coverage and be forced to pay for
> preventative? This makes no sense.
> >
> > 3) For those on FHA, if your notional FHA dollars are burned
> up before age 65, could you really expected to pay the full cost
> of your retiree health care when you may be able to get ACA for
> maybe half the cost?
> >
> > There are many of us who will struggle to make it to age 65
> (Medicare)> with medical coverage. If anyone has any sources of
> information that details how ACA dovetails with retiree health
> care benefits, please post and advise. Thank you.
> >
> >
> > --- In ibmpensionissues@..., "zimowski@"
> wrote:
> > >
> > > The more interesting snip is the following: "Health
> insurance will not necessarily be less costly. It will be
> operated by state health insurance exchanges, which will offer a
> competitive private health insurance market that should provide
> one-stop shopping."
> > >
> > > Can anyone explain how the ACA benefits those IBM retirees
> that are lucky enough to have IBM subsidized health care
> coverage? I don't see it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In ibmpensionissues@..., "teamb562"
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2012/12/27/boomers-obamacare-health-reform/1717009/
> > > >
> > > > snip:
> > > > The ACA is likely to spark many more changes. Employers
> that still offer retiree health benefits may decide to provide
> something different. For example, instead of a health insurance
> plan, they may give Boomer retirees a fixed amount of money,
> called a premium reimbursement, Fontanetta says. Retirees could
> use that money to select insurance at their state exchange
> marketplace.> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>

From: "KenSP@..."
To: ibmpensionissues@... ten?
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers

?

Colleagues

It is truly interesting that many people focus on having insurance and not whether the doctor is going to accept your insurance. It really does not matter if you have insurance especially when trying to find a good or highly recommended doctor in New York City and Westchester area who is willing to take any insurance. Many refuse to accept insurance.

When you call for an appointment, they ask you what kind of insurance you have.? If it is Medicare or Medicaid, they tell you that they do not accept this insurance. So, unless you are willing to pay the fee for cash without any reimbursement, you continue to look. If you have private insurance you are told, that you must pay the fee with your credit card and they will give you the reimbursement that they receive from the insurance company. (My daughter's experience)

Please remember you cannot force a doctor to work or to treat patients since that would be slavery.

The doctors are not refusing you treatment but merely refusing to accept your insurance. Cash is king. Many doctors are carrying medical school debt, large malpractice insurance, and the cost of setting up and maintaining a practice. (My neighbor is a doctor.) There are not enough doctors to treat everyone especially the increase in the number of NEW Medicaid patients in the New York area.

The doctors refuse to take Medicare or Medicaid patients especially since if they take a Medicare patient, a doctor is legally required to take a Medicaid patient and receives much less from the government for Medicaid patient even if the Medicare and Medicaid patient have the same illness. Does this make sense? For this reason, many doctors refuse to take Medicare and Medicaid patients.

So just because one has insurance especially Medicare does not mean, you are going to be able to fine a good doctor or specialist when he is needed. You will find someone although he might not be consider good or one of the best. There are not enough doctors to treat everyone.

I wonder if the ACA rules will lead to more doctors refusing to accept insurance.

Regards from an IBM retiree who has experienced the above.

----- Original Message -----
From: Sheila Beaudry
Date: Friday, December 28, 2012 8:12 pm
Subject: Re: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers
To: ibmpensionissues@...

> Considering the high cost of the IBM insurance the private
> exchanges will probably be cheaper.? Within?9 years our costs
> went from $60 to $1400/month for just the 2 of us.? ACA makes
> them give free preventive care so over time this should lower
> costs as people take care of things before conditions worsen and
> become more expensive to treat.? If right wingers hadn't
> made?such a fuss inaccurately claiming "death panels" there
> would be doctor sessions where the doctor could explain about
> palliative care as opposed to extreme measures for those who are
> terminal.? There was a good article in Money magazine saying
> that palliative care was not only cheaper but actually extended
> the patient's life.? The ACA also requires that the insurance
> companies spend more money on actual patient care and less on
> overhead like the millions to the CEO.? Those companies
> that?spent too much money on overhead?had to give money back to
> the people or in the case of
> company provided coverage, to the company.?In August $1.1
> billion in all was suppose to be returned.?I wonder if IBM used
> any of the money to lower premiums or just used it to increase
> their profit?
> ??
> --- On Fri, 12/28/12, Don Mininger wrote:
>
>
> From: Don Mininger
> Subject: Re: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may
> help Baby Boomers
> To: "ibmpensionissues@..."
> Date: Friday, December 28,
> 2012, 1:42 PM
>
>
>
> ?
>
>
>
>
>
> Anyone who thinks the ACA is going to reduce medical care costs
> is living in a dream world. ?There is a Reason why many of the
> provisions are being phased in over a period of several years.
> ?If all the rules in this legislation kicked in at once, the
> nation would go into Sticker Shock. ?Any fees, etc., added to
> the health care providers will Surely be passed along to the
> consumers and patients. ?The Private Insurance companies have
> their needs well protected under this legislation, and any costs
> they incur will be passed along to their subscribers in the form
> of higher premiums and co-pays. ?For Seniors, this combination
> of Medicare, and the IBM Supplemental plans, are probably one of
> the best deals out there....let's hope the government doesn't
> screw with them too much. ?
>
>
> Ultimately, the medical costs are going to keep rising at a pace
> that makes care unaffordable for much of the nation....and we
> will be forced to adopt some form of a SP-UHC system similar to
> what most of the other nations have been using for years. ?I see
> that happening before this decade is out. ?We cannot keep paying
> twice as much for care, as most other nations...and continue to
> be ranked way down the list in terms of value received for that
> money. ?The data at the CDC indicates that over 80% ?of this
> nations medical costs are expended upon less than 15% of our
> population. ?Much of that is spent on the elderly in the last
> weeks of their lives, as our Health Care Industry uses them as
> Lab Rats to sustain life with every possible heroic measure.
> ?Then, we have to overcome the practice of Defensive
> Medicine...where doctors are having to order multiple, expensive
> tests...so as to protect themselves from the army of ambulance
> chasing lawyers that are
> just looking for an excuse to bring a multi-million dollar
> lawsuit for every perceived error in treatment. ?Many doctors
> pay well over $100K a year for Malpractice Insurance, so as to
> be protected from these Legal Buzzards....and you KNOW who pays
> for that. ? ?
>
>
> Our current health care system is destined to implode under its
> own weight...and the ACA is going to only hasten the day when
> that happens. ? ? ? ? ??
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: "zimowski@..."
> To: ibmpensionissues@...
> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 11:35 AM
> Subject: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help
> Baby Boomers
>
>
>
> ?
>
> The more interesting snip is the following: "Health insurance
> will not necessarily be less costly. It will be operated by
> state health insurance exchanges, which will offer a competitive
> private health insurance market that should provide one-stop
> shopping."
> Can anyone explain how the ACA benefits those IBM retirees that
> are lucky enough to have IBM subsidized health care coverage? I
> don't see it.
>
> --- In ibmpensionissues@..., "teamb562"
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2012/12/27/boomers-obamacare-health-reform/1717009/
> >
> > snip:
> > The ACA is likely to spark many more changes. Employers that
> still offer retiree health benefits may decide to provide
> something different. For example, instead of a health insurance
> plan, they may give Boomer retirees a fixed amount of money,
> called a premium reimbursement, Fontanetta says. Retirees could
> use that money to select insurance at their state exchange
> marketplace.>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Considering the high cost of the IBM insurance the private exchanges will probably be cheaper.?? Within??9 years our costs went from $60 to $1400/month for just the 2 of us.?? ACA makes them give free preventive care so over time this should lower costs as people take care of things before conditions worsen and become more expensive to treat.?? If right wingers hadn't made??such a fuss inaccurately claiming "death panels" there would be doctor sessions where the doctor could explain about palliative care as opposed to extreme measures for those who are terminal.?? There was a good article in Money magazine saying that palliative care was not only cheaper but actually extended the patient's life.?? The ACA also requires that the insurance companies spend more money on actual patient care and less on overhead like the millions to the CEO.?? Those companies that??spent too much money on overhead??had to give money back to the people or in the case of
company provided coverage, to the company.??In August $1.1 billion in all was suppose to be returned.??I wonder if IBM used any of the money to lower premiums or just used it to increase their profit?
????
--- On Fri, 12/28/12, Don Mininger <don_m64015@...> wrote:


From: Don Mininger <don_m64015@...>
Subject: Re: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers
To: "ibmpensionissues@..." <ibmpensionissues@...>
Date: Friday, December 28, 2012, 1:42 PM



??





Anyone who thinks the ACA is going to reduce medical care costs is living in a dream world. ??There is a Reason why many of the provisions are being phased in over a period of several years. ??If all the rules in this legislation kicked in at once, the nation would go into Sticker Shock. ??Any fees, etc., added to the health care providers will Surely be passed along to the consumers and patients. ??The Private Insurance companies have their needs well protected under this legislation, and any costs they incur will be passed along to their subscribers in the form of higher premiums and co-pays. ??For Seniors, this combination of Medicare, and the IBM Supplemental plans, are probably one of the best deals out there....let's hope the government doesn't screw with them too much. ??


Ultimately, the medical costs are going to keep rising at a pace that makes care unaffordable for much of the nation....and we will be forced to adopt some form of a SP-UHC system similar to what most of the other nations have been using for years. ??I see that happening before this decade is out. ??We cannot keep paying twice as much for care, as most other nations...and continue to be ranked way down the list in terms of value received for that money. ??The data at the CDC indicates that over 80% ??of this nations medical costs are expended upon less than 15% of our population. ??Much of that is spent on the elderly in the last weeks of their lives, as our Health Care Industry uses them as Lab Rats to sustain life with every possible heroic measure. ??Then, we have to overcome the practice of Defensive Medicine...where doctors are having to order multiple, expensive tests...so as to protect themselves from the army of ambulance chasing lawyers that are
just looking for an excuse to bring a multi-million dollar lawsuit for every perceived error in treatment. ??Many doctors pay well over $100K a year for Malpractice Insurance, so as to be protected from these Legal Buzzards....and you KNOW who pays for that. ?? ??


Our current health care system is destined to implode under its own weight...and the ACA is going to only hasten the day when that happens. ?? ?? ?? ?? ????






From: "zimowski@..." <zimowski@...>
To: ibmpensionissues@...
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 11:35 AM
Subject: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers



??

The more interesting snip is the following: "Health insurance will not necessarily be less costly. It will be operated by state health insurance exchanges, which will offer a competitive private health insurance market that should provide one-stop shopping."

Can anyone explain how the ACA benefits those IBM retirees that are lucky enough to have IBM subsidized health care coverage? I don't see it.

--- In ibmpensionissues@..., "teamb562" <teamb562@> wrote:

snip:
The ACA is likely to spark many more changes. Employers that still offer retiree health benefits may decide to provide something different. For example, instead of a health insurance plan, they may give Boomer retirees a fixed amount of money, called a premium reimbursement, Fontanetta says. Retirees could use that money to select insurance at their state exchange marketplace.

I think that you are listening to the liberal press or people who hold a liberal point of view and the site you quote is known to be liberal. I consider myself a moderate but because I am in my 70's this issue is one I follow closely.Here is a quote from the government publication on the issue of FEHB versus Medicare and why people say that Congress and the President are exempt from ACA"It will almost always be to your advantage to keep your current FEHB
coverage without any changes. The exception is for those with limited
incomes and resources who may qualify for Medicare's extra help with
prescription drug costs. Contact your benefits administrator or your
FEHB Program insurer for information about your FEHB coverage before
making any changes." Does that sound like Medicare is a better plan than FEHB coverage. A majority of the States have refused to set up the required insurance exchanges. The Federal Government now must set up and pay for the creation of these exchanges. Do you believe that they will be setup by 2014? Given the current financial situation, do you think that the House would approve this expenditure and grow the government. In the real world and not the theoretical world, I believe it will be years before Congress or the President will be forced to buy insurance on a state exchange since none exist. Time will tell which one of us is correct. Do you know of anyone who has FEHB and is 65 electing to take Medicare rather than keeping their FEHB current insurance.? If IBM offered you a choice, their plan or Medicare would you chose Medicare? I would not since many doctors in the New York Area do not accept Medicare since Medicare's reimbursement rate is the lowest in the insurance industry. I and my wife did not have a problem finding a doctor when we had IBM employee medical coverage but now we do have some issues.Please Note:? My brother worked for and retired from working for the federal government, my mother was in the teachers' union when she retired, and I retired from IBM. My mother had the best medical retirement plan, followed by my brother, and then my Medicare and IBM retiree coverage.Medicare is better than nothing especially since IBM can cancel retiree healthcare insurance anytime it wishes.Nothing more need be said.? Believe what you want. Our beliefs and opinions are based on our personal life experiences. You have yours and I have mine.Regards? An IBM Retiree----- Original Message -----From: edward_berkline Date: Saturday, December 29, 2012 9:43 amSubject: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby BoomersTo: ibmpensionissues@...> > > Congress and the President are exempt from ACA and therefore > are > > more equal then other US citizens when it comes to healthcare. > > Would the law have passed if they knew it would be applied to them> > and their family?> > You've been falling for too much of the right wing-nut > propaganda about the ACA. > > > > or> > > exempted-from-obamacare/> > excerpt:> > So, here's the real deal ¨C As things currently stand, Members of > Congress and their staff, until 2014, will continue to > participate in the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program > (FEHBP). This program, considered among the best in the nation, > allows federal employees- including Members of Congress and > their staff- to choose from a wide range of health plans and > select the one that best suits their needs. Note that the > current plan is neither `government' insurance, `free' insurance > nor any other sort of sweet deal that the public has been led to > believe is the case. The federal employee's program involves > private insurance policies with premiums, deductibles, co-pays, etc.> > Here's the surprise ¨C come 2014, when the lion's share of the > ACA provisions come on line, Members of Congress and their staff > will be required to buy their health insurance on an exchange. > In fact, their choices will be even more limited than our own. > While it is expected that some 24 million people will elect to > purchase their health care policy on a state run exchange, we > are not required by law to do so. Members of Congress and their > staff, however, must buy their insurance in this way.> > --- In ibmpensionissues@..., KenSP@ wrote:> >> > Perhaps, the government with such a? law forcing doctors to > take Medicare and Medicaid patients should also further reduce > the Medicare and Medicaid? doctor's reimbursement to one dollar > per visit to save tax dollars. Once such a law goes through, > what rational person will want to become a doctor or stay in the > US rather than going elsewhere to practice medicine. Should we > forbid doctors from leaving the country? Other countries just > like the US will always allow and accept doctors within its > borders .? So with such a law forcing doctors to accept Medicare > and Medicaid patients, we will have even? less doctors than we > have today.In some areas of Canada, you have to wait 3 years to > be assigned a primary care physician.? It is this doctor who > determines what tests you need or don't need under their > system.? To avoid this issue, ACA, makes a registered nurse a > patient's primary care person and she determines whether you see > the doctor or what test you need..? (Remember Nancy said you > have to pass ACA first before you know what is in it.)However > for treatment in many countries, if you pay cash just like in > England, any doctor is willing to see at any time and treat you > first before he treats those with government health care > insurance. Doctors can set priority rules as to what patients > they see first and who they see last unless this also is going > to be regulated by the government.? -- Is this Socialism or > Communism? When working for IBM in Europe, as a US citizen I had > to pay cash and then file with IBM for medical reimbursement > since I was not covered under the European system. I had no > problems in finding doctors or dentists who were US trained.Save > your money for US medical treatment especially when a 15 member > non-medical appointed government board who are exempt from ACA > will decide what is covered and not covered under Medicare or > ACA. Trust the government.Ask yourself why did the Canadian PM > go to the Florida and pay cash for a heart operation rather than > staying in Canada? for treatment.? When asked about this, his > reply was that no one should tell him how to spend his money.But > in a socialistic state, all persons are equal but some (party or > govenrment officials) are more equal than others.? Congress and > the President are exempt from ACA and therefore are more equal > then other US citizens when it comes to healthcare. Would the > law have passed if they knew it would be applied to them and > their family? RegardsFrom an IBM retired person in his 70's and > having limited income, who watches this area closely.----- > Original Message -----From: ibmchiapetrescue Date: Friday, > December 28, 2012 11:02 pmSubject: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health > care law(PPACA) may help Baby BoomersTo: > ibmpensionissues@...> Found this on another board: > > > Every American citizen over the age of 65 should press their > > congressmen or state legislatures to compel any doctor who > > received any government assistance or government loan in their > > education or career to accept any senior citizen who is covered > > by Medicare.> >> >> > >

From: KenSP@...
Subject: Re: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers
To: ibmpensionissues@...
Date: Saturday, December 29, 2012, 12:34 PM

?

I think that you are listening to the liberal press or people who hold a liberal point of view and the site you quote is known to be liberal. I consider myself a moderate but because I am in my 70's this issue is one I follow closely.

Here is a quote from the government publication on the issue of FEHB versus Medicare and why people say that Congress and the President are exempt from ACA

"It will almost always be to your advantage to keep your current FEHB coverage without any changes. The exception is for those with limited incomes and resources who may qualify for Medicare's extra help with prescription drug costs. Contact your benefits administrator or your FEHB Program insurer for information about your FEHB coverage before making any changes."

Does that sound like Medicare is a better plan than FEHB coverage.

A majority of the States have refused to set up the required insurance exchanges. The Federal Government now must set up and pay for the creation of these exchanges. Do you believe that they will be setup by 2014? Given the current financial situation, do you think that the House would approve this expenditure and grow the government. In the real world and not the theoretical world, I believe it will be years before Congress or the President will be forced to buy insurance on a state exchange since none exist. Time will tell which one of us is correct.

Do you know of anyone who has FEHB and is 65 electing to take Medicare rather than keeping their FEHB current insurance.? If IBM offered you a choice, their plan or Medicare would you chose Medicare? I would not since many doctors in the New York Area do not accept Medicare since Medicare's reimbursement rate is the lowest in the insurance industry. I and my wife did not have a problem finding a doctor when we had IBM employee medical coverage but now we do have some issues.

Please Note:? My brother worked for and retired from working for the federal government, my mother was in the teachers' union when she retired, and I retired from IBM. My mother had the best medical retirement plan, followed by my brother, and then my Medicare and IBM retiree coverage.

Medicare is better than nothing especially since IBM can cancel retiree healthcare insurance anytime it wishes.

Nothing more need be said.? Believe what you want. Our beliefs and opinions are based on our personal life experiences. You have yours and I have mine.

Regards?
An IBM Retiree



----- Original Message -----
From: edward_berkline
Date: Saturday, December 29, 2012 9:43 am
Subject: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers
To: ibmpensionissues@...

>
> > Congress and the President are exempt from ACA and therefore
> are
> > more equal then other US citizens when it comes to healthcare.
> > Would the law have passed if they knew it would be applied to them
> > and their family?
>
> You've been falling for too much of the right wing-nut
> propaganda about the ACA.
>
> http://www.factcheck.org/2010/01/congress-exempt-from-health-bill/
>
> or
>
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/12/08/congress-
> exempted-from-obamacare/
>
> excerpt:
>
> So, here's the real deal ¨C As things currently stand, Members of
> Congress and their staff, until 2014, will continue to
> participate in the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program
> (FEHBP). This program, considered among the best in the nation,
> allows federal employees- including Members of Congress and
> their staff- to choose from a wide range of health plans and
> select the one that best suits their needs. Note that the
> current plan is neither `government' insurance, `free' insurance
> nor any other sort of sweet deal that the public has been led to
> believe is the case. The federal employee's program involves
> private insurance policies with premiums, deductibles, co-pays, etc.
>
> Here's the surprise ¨C come 2014, when the lion's share of the
> ACA provisions come on line, Members of Congress and their staff
> will be required to buy their health insurance on an exchange.
> In fact, their choices will be even more limited than our own.
> While it is expected that some 24 million people will elect to
> purchase their health care policy on a state run exchange, we
> are not required by law to do so. Members of Congress and their
> staff, however, must buy their insurance in this way.
>
> --- In ibmpensionissues@..., KenSP@... wrote:
> >
> > Perhaps, the government with such a? law forcing doctors to
> take Medicare and Medicaid patients should also further reduce
> the Medicare and Medicaid? doctor's reimbursement to one dollar
> per visit to save tax dollars. Once such a law goes through,
> what rational person will want to become a doctor or stay in the
> US rather than going elsewhere to practice medicine. Should we
> forbid doctors from leaving the country? Other countries just
> like the US will always allow and accept doctors within its
> borders .? So with such a law forcing doctors to accept Medicare
> and Medicaid patients, we will have even? less doctors than we
> have today.In some areas of Canada, you have to wait 3 years to
> be assigned a primary care physician.? It is this doctor who
> determines what tests you need or don't need under their
> system.? To avoid this issue, ACA, makes a registered nurse a
> patient's primary care person and she determines whether you see
> the doctor or what test you need..? (Remember Nancy said you
> have to pass ACA first before you know what is in it.)However
> for treatment in many countries, if you pay cash just like in
> England, any doctor is willing to see at any time and treat you
> first before he treats those with government health care
> insurance. Doctors can set priority rules as to what patients
> they see first and who they see last unless this also is going
> to be regulated by the government.? -- Is this Socialism or
> Communism? When working for IBM in Europe, as a US citizen I had
> to pay cash and then file with IBM for medical reimbursement
> since I was not covered under the European system. I had no
> problems in finding doctors or dentists who were US trained.Save
> your money for US medical treatment especially when a 15 member
> non-medical appointed government board who are exempt from ACA
> will decide what is covered and not covered under Medicare or
> ACA. Trust the government.Ask yourself why did the Canadian PM
> go to the Florida and pay cash for a heart operation rather than
> staying in Canada? for treatment.? When asked about this, his
> reply was that no one should tell him how to spend his money.But
> in a socialistic state, all persons are equal but some (party or
> govenrment officials) are more equal than others.? Congress and
> the President are exempt from ACA and therefore are more equal
> then other US citizens when it comes to healthcare. Would the
> law have passed if they knew it would be applied to them and
> their family? RegardsFrom an IBM retired person in his 70's and
> having limited income, who watches this area closely.-----
> Original Message -----From: ibmchiapetrescue Date: Friday,
> December 28, 2012 11:02 pmSubject: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health
> care law(PPACA) may help Baby BoomersTo:
> ibmpensionissues@...> Found this on another board: >
> > Every American citizen over the age of 65 should press their >
> congressmen or state legislatures to compel any doctor who >
> received any government assistance or government loan in their >
> education or career to accept any senior citizen who is covered
> > by Medicare.> >
> >
>
>
>

From: Just Puttin'
Subject: Re: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers
To: "ibmpensionissues@..."
Date: Saturday, December 29, 2012, 1:59 AM

?

Outstanding!!! ?You nailed almost every point.

Especially, your very first point. ?

That was this:

THE PRESIDENT AND MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, THEIR FAMILIES, AND STAFF, ARE EXEMPT FROM THE ACA.? Not only now but forever!

I would like to suggest to the members of this and other forums, that we determine a means and method of RESTRICTING LEGISLATIVE BODY'S AND FEDERAL EXECUTIVES, AND STAFF FROM EXEMPTING THEMSELVES FROM GENERALLY APPLICABLE LAWS AND REGULATIONS.

---

From: "KenSP@..."
To: ibmpensionissues@...
Cc: ibmpensionissues@...
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 12:00 AM
Subject: Re: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers

?

I think the person who wrote the attached note needs to do more research on the ACA.

First if ACA is so good why does it not apply to members of Congress or the President and their families.? They are exempt including their staff members.

The second thing is he/she should look at is the number of States that have opt out of the new Medicare and Medicaid rules which would have double Medicaid participants in states such as Texas.? Also I think between 30 and 36 States have refused to spend money on setting up the insurance exchanges and therefore this must be done by the Federal Government at their expense. I don't think the Federal Government has the man power or money to set it up and therefore don't hold your breath waiting for the exchange.

As to subsidies for healthcare insurance, where is the money coming from? At the moment, the US government is borrowing 46 cents of every dollar it spends.? US is becoming like Greece and sooner or later cuts in everyone's benefits will have to be made.

Medicare and Social Security is going broke and now ACA will add to the cost.? Someone has to pay? It will be all of us on a fixed pension when inflation comes. Obama tax rate increases on the rich, if passed, will only pay for running the government for 8 days but does nothing to stop the borrowing and printing of money.

The Federal Reserve is printing the money and then buys US Bonds at $50 billion a month. This is how the government is getting some of the money it needs. This is the reason the price of gold keeps going up.? So when you see your grocery bills increase as well as your other expenses and your income (pension and social security) does not, you will know the fixed income retirees are the ones who will truly pay for these great benefits and subsidies.

Finally as to IBM retirement health benefits being excluded form ACA, all IBM and the other companies told Obama is that if included they would drop the retiree health plans.? Legally, they can do this any time. It is in the fine print of the plans.? Could you imagine what would have happen if Obama was telling everyone if they like their plan they could keep it, and then IBM tells its retired employees it is dropping their health care due to ACA.

Regards
an IBM Retiree

----- Original Message -----
From: edward_berkline
Date: Friday, December 28, 2012 9:57 pm
Subject: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers
To: ibmpensionissues@...

> > Anyway, in the recent past, some have posted that retirees who
> > are already covered by their companies health care(no matter
> the
> > cost) will be excluded from ACA. I have a hard time believing that
> > for several reasons.
>
> A certain political party did all they could to prevent changes
> to the current health care system. They view the health care
> exchanges as "government run health care" even though commercial
> insurance companies will be offering insurance on the exchanges.
> Therefore, it makes sense from their point of view to exclude
> as many people as possible from having access to the exchanges.
>
> > 1) It could very well be that ACA coverage could be less expensive
> > then retiree coverage, especially if you're living on the
> > pension(as I am). You might be considered low income and
> quality
> > for the ACA subsidy.
>
> Even though you may be on a pension and have a low income, that
> certain political party doesn't want you to have access to any
> subsidized health insurance because they view that as an expense
> to taxpayers.
>
> > 2) Ibm retiree health care does not cover maintenance and
> > preventive, yet ACA does. How could you be forced to stay with
> > company X retiree health coverage and be forced to pay for
> > preventative? This makes no sense.
>
> Yes, it makes no sense. But IBM and other large companies
> lobbied heavily to make sure that retiree plans were excluded
> from most requirements of the ACA.
>
> > 3) For those on FHA, if your notional FHA dollars are burned up
> > before age 65, could you really expected to pay the full cost of
> > your retiree health care when you may be able to get ACA for maybe
> > half the cost?
>
> I think you are dreaming if you think that insurance on the
> exchanges will be half the cost of what IBM charges. Perhaps if
> you were eligible for a substantial subsidy it might be. But as
> I said, I doubt that IBMers will be allowed to have access, even
> at full cost.
>
> --- In ibmpensionissues@..., "teamb562"
> wrote:
> >
> > "Can anyone explain how the ACA benefits those IBM retirees...."
> >
> > Yes, that was the main reason I posted this article. I've been
> searching for answers on how ACA dovetails with current retiree
> benefits and have gotten no where. I posted it here since
> discussion about ACA is stupidly prohibited by Kathy on the
> ibmpension board.
> >
> > Anyway, in the recent past, some have posted that retirees who
> are already covered by their companies health care(no matter the
> cost) will be excluded from ACA. I have a hard time believing
> that for several reasons.
> >
> > 1)It could very well be that ACA coverage could be less
> expensive then retiree coverage, especially if you're living on
> the pension(as I am). You might be considered low income and
> quality for the ACA subsidy.
> >
> > 2)Ibm retiree health care does not cover maintenance and
> preventive, yet ACA does. How could you be forced to stay with
> company X retiree health coverage and be forced to pay for
> preventative? This makes no sense.
> >
> > 3) For those on FHA, if your notional FHA dollars are burned
> up before age 65, could you really expected to pay the full cost
> of your retiree health care when you may be able to get ACA for
> maybe half the cost?
> >
> > There are many of us who will struggle to make it to age 65
> (Medicare)> with medical coverage. If anyone has any sources of
> information that details how ACA dovetails with retiree health
> care benefits, please post and advise. Thank you.
> >
> >
> > --- In ibmpensionissues@..., "zimowski@"
> wrote:
> > >
> > > The more interesting snip is the following: "Health
> insurance will not necessarily be less costly. It will be
> operated by state health insurance exchanges, which will offer a
> competitive private health insurance market that should provide
> one-stop shopping."
> > >
> > > Can anyone explain how the ACA benefits those IBM retirees
> that are lucky enough to have IBM subsidized health care
> coverage? I don't see it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In ibmpensionissues@..., "teamb562"
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2012/12/27/boomers-obamacare-health-reform/1717009/
> > > >
> > > > snip:
> > > > The ACA is likely to spark many more changes. Employers
> that still offer retiree health benefits may decide to provide
> something different. For example, instead of a health insurance
> plan, they may give Boomer retirees a fixed amount of money,
> called a premium reimbursement, Fontanetta says. Retirees could
> use that money to select insurance at their state exchange
> marketplace.> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>

---

From: Sheila Beaudry <sbbeaudry@...>
To: ibmpensionissues@...
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers

?

This is not true. --- On Sat, 12/29/12, Just Puttin' wrote: From: Just Puttin' Subject: Re: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers To: "ibmpensionissues@..." Date: Saturday, December 29, 2012, 1:59 AM ? Outstanding!!! ?You nailed almost every point. Especially, your very first point. ? That was this: THE PRESIDENT AND MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, THEIR FAMILIES, AND STAFF, ARE EXEMPT FROM THE ACA.? Not only now but forever! I would like to suggest to the members of this and other forums, that we determine a means and method of RESTRICTING LEGISLATIVE BODY'S AND FEDERAL EXECUTIVES, AND STAFF FROM EXEMPTING THEMSELVES FROM GENERALLY APPLICABLE LAWS AND REGULATIONS. From: "KenSP@..." To: ibmpensionissues@... Cc: ibmpensionissues@... Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 12:00 AM Subject: Re: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers ? I think the person who wrote the attached note needs to do more research on the ACA. First if ACA is so good why does it not apply to members of Congress or the President and their families.? They are exempt including their staff members. The second thing is he/she should look at is the number of States that have opt out of the new Medicare and Medicaid rules which would have double Medicaid participants in states such as Texas.? Also I think between 30 and 36 States have refused to spend money on setting up the insurance exchanges and therefore this must be done by the Federal Government at their expense. I don't think the Federal Government has the man power or money to set it up and therefore don't hold your breath waiting for the exchange. As to subsidies for healthcare insurance, where is the money coming from? At the moment, the US government is borrowing 46 cents of every dollar it spends.? US is becoming like Greece and sooner or later cuts in everyone's benefits will have to be made. Medicare and Social Security is going broke and now ACA will add to the cost.? Someone has to pay? It will be all of us on a fixed pension when inflation comes. Obama tax rate increases on the rich, if passed, will only pay for running the government for 8 days but does nothing to stop the borrowing and printing of money. The Federal Reserve is printing the money and then buys US Bonds at $50 billion a month. This is how the government is getting some of the money it needs. This is the reason the price of gold keeps going up.? So when you see your grocery bills increase as well as your other expenses and your income (pension and social security) does not, you will know the fixed income retirees are the ones who will truly pay for these great benefits and subsidies. Finally as to IBM retirement health benefits being excluded form ACA, all IBM and the other companies told Obama is that if included they would drop the retiree health plans.? Legally, they can do this any time. It is in the fine print of the plans.? Could you imagine what would have happen if Obama was telling everyone if they like their plan they could keep it, and then IBM tells its retired employees it is dropping their health care due to ACA. Regards an IBM Retiree ----- Original Message ----- From: edward_berkline Date: Friday, December 28, 2012 9:57 pm Subject: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers To: ibmpensionissues@... > > Anyway, in the recent past, some have posted that retirees who > > are already covered by their companies health care(no matter > the > > cost) will be excluded from ACA. I have a hard time believing that > > for several reasons. > > A certain political party did all they could to prevent changes > to the current health care system. They view the health care > exchanges as "government run health care" even though commercial > insurance companies will be offering insurance on the exchanges. > Therefore, it makes sense from their point of view to exclude > as many people as possible from having access to the exchanges. > > > 1) It could very well be that ACA coverage could be less expensive > > then retiree coverage, especially if you're living on the > > pension(as I am). You might be considered low income and > quality > > for the ACA subsidy. > > Even though you may be on a pension and have a low income, that > certain political party doesn't want you to have access to any > subsidized health insurance because they view that as an expense > to taxpayers. > > > 2) Ibm retiree health care does not cover maintenance and > > preventive, yet ACA does. How could you be forced to stay with > > company X retiree health coverage and be forced to pay for > > preventative? This makes no sense. > > Yes, it makes no sense. But IBM and other large companies > lobbied heavily to make sure that retiree plans were excluded > from most requirements of the ACA. > > > 3) For those on FHA, if your notional FHA dollars are burned up > > before age 65, could you really expected to pay the full cost of > > your retiree health care when you may be able to get ACA for maybe > > half the cost? > > I think you are dreaming if you think that insurance on the > exchanges will be half the cost of what IBM charges. Perhaps if > you were eligible for a substantial subsidy it might be. But as > I said, I doubt that IBMers will be allowed to have access, even > at full cost. > > --- In ibmpensionissues@..., "teamb562" > wrote: > > > > "Can anyone explain how the ACA benefits those IBM retirees...." > > > > Yes, that was the main reason I posted this article. I've been > searching for answers on how ACA dovetails with current retiree > benefits and have gotten no where. I posted it here since > discussion about ACA is stupidly prohibited by Kathy on the > ibmpension board. > > > > Anyway, in the recent past, some have posted that retirees who > are already covered by their companies health care(no matter the > cost) will be excluded from ACA. I have a hard time believing > that for several reasons. > > > > 1)It could very well be that ACA coverage could be less > expensive then retiree coverage, especially if you're living on > the pension(as I am). You might be considered low income and > quality for the ACA subsidy. > > > > 2)Ibm retiree health care does not cover maintenance and > preventive, yet ACA does. How could you be forced to stay with > company X retiree health coverage and be forced to pay for > preventative? This makes no sense. > > > > 3) For those on FHA, if your notional FHA dollars are burned > up before age 65, could you really expected to pay the full cost > of your retiree health care when you may be able to get ACA for > maybe half the cost? > > > > There are many of us who will struggle to make it to age 65 > (Medicare)> with medical coverage. If anyone has any sources of > information that details how ACA dovetails with retiree health > care benefits, please post and advise. Thank you. > > > > > > --- In ibmpensionissues@..., "zimowski@" > wrote: > > > > > > The more interesting snip is the following: "Health > insurance will not necessarily be less costly. It will be > operated by state health insurance exchanges, which will offer a > competitive private health insurance market that should provide > one-stop shopping." > > > > > > Can anyone explain how the ACA benefits those IBM retirees > that are lucky enough to have IBM subsidized health care > coverage? I don't see it. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In ibmpensionissues@..., "teamb562" > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2012/12/27/boomers-obamacare-health-reform/1717009/ > > > > > > > > snip: > > > > The ACA is likely to spark many more changes. Employers > that still offer retiree health benefits may decide to provide > something different. For example, instead of a health insurance > plan, they may give Boomer retirees a fixed amount of money, > called a premium reimbursement, Fontanetta says. Retirees could > use that money to select insurance at their state exchange > marketplace.> > > > > > > > > > >

From: zimowski@...
Subject: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers
To: ibmpensionissues@...
Date: Saturday, December 29, 2012, 11:57 AM

?

The free preventative care that ACA offers is more hype than substance - just an ACA buzzword for those who have been tricked into voicing support for this program but never take the time to investigate what it really provides. There is a very short list of procedures that are covered, and when I perused the list, I could not find a single procedure that I think I'll need. What a joke....

--- In , Sheila Beaudry >
> Considering the high cost of the IBM insurance the private exchanges will probably be cheaper.?? Within??9 years our costs went from $60 to $1400/month for just the 2 of us.?? ACA makes them give free preventive care so over time this should lower costs as people take care of things before conditions worsen and become more expensive to treat.?? If right wingers hadn't made??such a fuss inaccurately claiming "death panels" there would be doctor sessions where the doctor could explain about palliative care as opposed to extreme measures for those who are terminal.?? There was a good article in Money magazine saying that palliative care was not only cheaper but actually extended the patient's life.?? The ACA also requires that the insurance companies spend more money on actual patient care and less on overhead like the millions to the CEO.?? Those companies that??spent too much money on overhead??had to give money back to the people or in the case of
> company provided coverage, to the company.??In August $1.1 billion in all was suppose to be returned.??I wonder if IBM used any of the money to lower premiums or just used it to increase their profit?
> ????
> --- On Fri, 12/28/12, Don Mininger wrote:
>
>
> From: Don Mininger
> Subject: Re: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers
> To: "" <>
> Date: Friday, December 28, 2012, 1:42 PM
>
>
>
> ??
>
>
>
>
>
> Anyone who thinks the ACA is going to reduce medical care costs is living in a dream world. ??There is a Reason why many of the provisions are being phased in over a period of several years. ??If all the rules in this legislation kicked in at once, the nation would go into Sticker Shock. ??Any fees, etc., added to the health care providers will Surely be passed along to the consumers and patients. ??The Private Insurance companies have their needs well protected under this legislation, and any costs they incur will be passed along to their subscribers in the form of higher premiums and co-pays. ??For Seniors, this combination of Medicare, and the IBM Supplemental plans, are probably one of the best deals out there....let's hope the government doesn't screw with them too much. ??
>
>
> Ultimately, the medical costs are going to keep rising at a pace that makes care unaffordable for much of the nation....and we will be forced to adopt some form of a SP-UHC system similar to what most of the other nations have been using for years. ??I see that happening before this decade is out. ??We cannot keep paying twice as much for care, as most other nations...and continue to be ranked way down the list in terms of value received for that money. ??The data at the CDC indicates that over 80% ??of this nations medical costs are expended upon less than 15% of our population. ??Much of that is spent on the elderly in the last weeks of their lives, as our Health Care Industry uses them as Lab Rats to sustain life with every possible heroic measure. ??Then, we have to overcome the practice of Defensive Medicine...where doctors are having to order multiple, expensive tests...so as to protect themselves from the army of ambulance chasing lawyers that are
> just looking for an excuse to bring a multi-million dollar lawsuit for every perceived error in treatment. ??Many doctors pay well over $100K a year for Malpractice Insurance, so as to be protected from these Legal Buzzards....and you KNOW who pays for that. ?? ??
>
>
> Our current health care system is destined to implode under its own weight...and the ACA is going to only hasten the day when that happens. ?? ?? ?? ?? ????
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: "zimowski@..."
> To:
> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 11:35 AM
> Subject: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers
>
>
>
> ??
>
> The more interesting snip is the following: "Health insurance will not necessarily be less costly. It will be operated by state health insurance exchanges, which will offer a competitive private health insurance market that should provide one-stop shopping."
>
> Can anyone explain how the ACA benefits those IBM retirees that are lucky enough to have IBM subsidized health care coverage? I don't see it.
>
> --- In , "teamb562" wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > snip:
> > The ACA is likely to spark many more changes. Employers that still offer retiree health benefits may decide to provide something different. For example, instead of a health insurance plan, they may give Boomer retirees a fixed amount of money, called a premium reimbursement, Fontanetta says. Retirees could use that money to select insurance at their state exchange marketplace.
> >
>

In 2014 when the ACA is in full force Congress is required to use it.?? See p 81
"3D MEMBERS OF CONGRESS IN THE EXCHANGE.-
???????? (i)?? REQUIREMENT.- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, after the effective date of this subtitle, the only health plans that the Federal Government may make available to Members of Congress and congressional staff with respect to their service as a Member of Congress or Congressional staff shall be health plans that are_
???????? (I) created under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act); or
???????? (II) offered through an Exchange established under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act)."
Also see .
??
We are the ones not allowed to use the Exchanges because we have private insurance that meets the requirements, unless IBM drops it.
??????

--- On Sat, 12/29/12, KenSP@... <KenSP@...> wrote:


From: KenSP@... <KenSP@...>
Subject: Re: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers
To: ibmpensionissues@...
Date: Saturday, December 29, 2012, 12:34 PM



??



I think that you are listening to the liberal press or people who hold a liberal point of view and the site you quote is known to be liberal. I consider myself a moderate but because I am in my 70's this issue is one I follow closely.

Here is a quote from the government publication on the issue of FEHB versus Medicare and why people say that Congress and the President are exempt from ACA

"It will almost always be to your advantage to keep your current FEHB coverage without any changes. The exception is for those with limited incomes and resources who may qualify for Medicare's extra help with prescription drug costs. Contact your benefits administrator or your FEHB Program insurer for information about your FEHB coverage before making any changes."

Does that sound like Medicare is a better plan than FEHB coverage.

A majority of the States have refused to set up the required insurance exchanges. The Federal Government now must set up and pay for the creation of these exchanges. Do you believe that they will be setup by 2014? Given the current financial situation, do you think that the House would approve this expenditure and grow the government. In the real world and not the theoretical world, I believe it will be years before Congress or the President will be forced to buy insurance on a state exchange since none exist. Time will tell which one of us is correct.

Do you know of anyone who has FEHB and is 65 electing to take Medicare rather than keeping their FEHB current insurance.?? If IBM offered you a choice, their plan or Medicare would you chose Medicare? I would not since many doctors in the New York Area do not accept Medicare since Medicare's reimbursement rate is the lowest in the insurance industry. I and my wife did not have a problem finding a doctor when we had IBM employee medical coverage but now we do have some issues.

Please Note:?? My brother worked for and retired from working for the federal government, my mother was in the teachers' union when she retired, and I retired from IBM. My mother had the best medical retirement plan, followed by my brother, and then my Medicare and IBM retiree coverage.

Medicare is better than nothing especially since IBM can cancel retiree healthcare insurance anytime it wishes.

Nothing more need be said.?? Believe what you want. Our beliefs and opinions are based on our personal life experiences. You have yours and I have mine.

Regards??
An IBM Retiree



----- Original Message -----
From: edward_berkline
Date: Saturday, December 29, 2012 9:43 am
Subject: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers
To: ibmpensionissues@...

Congress and the President are exempt from ACA and therefore

are

more equal then other US citizens when it comes to healthcare.
Would the law have passed if they knew it would be applied to them
and their family?

You've been falling for too much of the right wing-nut
propaganda about the ACA.



or


exempted-from-obamacare/

excerpt:

So, here's the real deal ?€" As things currently stand, Members of
Congress and their staff, until 2014, will continue to
participate in the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program
(FEHBP). This program, considered among the best in the nation,
allows federal employees- including Members of Congress and
their staff- to choose from a wide range of health plans and
select the one that best suits their needs. Note that the
current plan is neither `government' insurance, `free' insurance
nor any other sort of sweet deal that the public has been led to
believe is the case. The federal employee's program involves
private insurance policies with premiums, deductibles, co-pays, etc.

Here's the surprise ?€" come 2014, when the lion's share of the
ACA provisions come on line, Members of Congress and their staff
will be required to buy their health insurance on an exchange.
In fact, their choices will be even more limited than our own.
While it is expected that some 24 million people will elect to
purchase their health care policy on a state run exchange, we
are not required by law to do so. Members of Congress and their
staff, however, must buy their insurance in this way.

--- In ibmpensionissues@..., KenSP@ wrote:

Perhaps, the government with such a?? law forcing doctors to

take Medicare and Medicaid patients should also further reduce
the Medicare and Medicaid?? doctor's reimbursement to one dollar
per visit to save tax dollars. Once such a law goes through,
what rational person will want to become a doctor or stay in the
US rather than going elsewhere to practice medicine. Should we
forbid doctors from leaving the country? Other countries just
like the US will always allow and accept doctors within its
borders .?? So with such a law forcing doctors to accept Medicare
and Medicaid patients, we will have even?? less doctors than we
have today.In some areas of Canada, you have to wait 3 years to
be assigned a primary care physician.?? It is this doctor who
determines what tests you need or don't need under their
system.?? To avoid this issue, ACA, makes a registered nurse a
patient's primary care person and she determines whether you see
the doctor or what test you need..?? (Remember Nancy said you
have to pass ACA first before you know what is in it.)However
for treatment in many countries, if you pay cash just like in
England, any doctor is willing to see at any time and treat you
first before he treats those with government health care
insurance. Doctors can set priority rules as to what patients
they see first and who they see last unless this also is going
to be regulated by the government.?? -- Is this Socialism or
Communism? When working for IBM in Europe, as a US citizen I had
to pay cash and then file with IBM for medical reimbursement
since I was not covered under the European system. I had no
problems in finding doctors or dentists who were US trained.Save
your money for US medical treatment especially when a 15 member
non-medical appointed government board who are exempt from ACA
will decide what is covered and not covered under Medicare or
ACA. Trust the government.Ask yourself why did the Canadian PM
go to the Florida and pay cash for a heart operation rather than
staying in Canada?? for treatment.?? When asked about this, his
reply was that no one should tell him how to spend his money.But
in a socialistic state, all persons are equal but some (party or
govenrment officials) are more equal than others.?? Congress and
the President are exempt from ACA and therefore are more equal
then other US citizens when it comes to healthcare. Would the
law have passed if they knew it would be applied to them and
their family? RegardsFrom an IBM retired person in his 70's and
having limited income, who watches this area closely.-----
Original Message -----From: ibmchiapetrescue Date: Friday,
December 28, 2012 11:02 pmSubject: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health
care law(PPACA) may help Baby BoomersTo:
ibmpensionissues@...> Found this on another board: >

Every American citizen over the age of 65 should press their >

congressmen or state legislatures to compel any doctor who >
received any government assistance or government loan in their >
education or career to accept any senior citizen who is covered

by Medicare.> >

From: teamb562
Subject: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers
To: ibmpensionissues@...
Date: Sunday, December 30, 2012, 10:20 PM

?

I wonder how our retiree health care "meets the requirements" when
preventative is excluded.


--- In , Sheila Beaudry wrote:
>
> In 2014 when the ACA is in full force Congress is required to use it.?? See ?? p 81
> "3D MEMBERS OF CONGRESS IN THE EXCHANGE.-
> ???????? (i)?? REQUIREMENT.- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, after the effective date of this subtitle, the only health plans that the Federal Government may make available to Members of Congress and congressional staff with respect to their service as a Member of Congress or Congressional staff shall be health plans that are_
> ???????? (I) created under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act); or
> ???????? (II) offered through an Exchange established under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act)."
> Also see ??and
> ??
> We are the ones not allowed to use the Exchanges because we have private insurance that meets the requirements, unless IBM drops it.
> ??????
>
> --- On Sat, 12/29/12, KenSP@... wrote:
>
>
> From: KenSP@...
> Subject: Re: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers
> To:
> Date: Saturday, December 29, 2012, 12:34 PM
>
>
>
> ??
>
>
>
> I think that you are listening to the liberal press or people who hold a liberal point of view and the site you quote is known to be liberal. I consider myself a moderate but because I am in my 70's this issue is one I follow closely.
>
> Here is a quote from the government publication on the issue of FEHB versus Medicare and why people say that Congress and the President are exempt from ACA
>
> "It will almost always be to your advantage to keep your current FEHB coverage without any changes. The exception is for those with limited incomes and resources who may qualify for Medicare's extra help with prescription drug costs. Contact your benefits administrator or your FEHB Program insurer for information about your FEHB coverage before making any changes."
>
> Does that sound like Medicare is a better plan than FEHB coverage.
>
> A majority of the States have refused to set up the required insurance exchanges. The Federal Government now must set up and pay for the creation of these exchanges. Do you believe that they will be setup by 2014? Given the current financial situation, do you think that the House would approve this expenditure and grow the government. In the real world and not the theoretical world, I believe it will be years before Congress or the President will be forced to buy insurance on a state exchange since none exist. Time will tell which one of us is correct.
>
> Do you know of anyone who has FEHB and is 65 electing to take Medicare rather than keeping their FEHB current insurance.?? If IBM offered you a choice, their plan or Medicare would you chose Medicare? I would not since many doctors in the New York Area do not accept Medicare since Medicare's reimbursement rate is the lowest in the insurance industry. I and my wife did not have a problem finding a doctor when we had IBM employee medical coverage but now we do have some issues.
>
> Please Note:?? My brother worked for and retired from working for the federal government, my mother was in the teachers' union when she retired, and I retired from IBM. My mother had the best medical retirement plan, followed by my brother, and then my Medicare and IBM retiree coverage.
>
> Medicare is better than nothing especially since IBM can cancel retiree healthcare insurance anytime it wishes.
>
> Nothing more need be said.?? Believe what you want. Our beliefs and opinions are based on our personal life experiences. You have yours and I have mine.
>
> Regards??
> An IBM Retiree
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: edward_berkline
> Date: Saturday, December 29, 2012 9:43 am
> Subject: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers
> To:
>
> >
> > > Congress and the President are exempt from ACA and therefore
> > are
> > > more equal then other US citizens when it comes to healthcare.
> > > Would the law have passed if they knew it would be applied to them
> > > and their family?
> >
> > You've been falling for too much of the right wing-nut
> > propaganda about the ACA.
> >
> >
> >
> > or
> >
> >
> > exempted-from-obamacare/
> >
> > excerpt:
> >
> > So, here's the real deal ?€" As things currently stand, Members of
> > Congress and their staff, until 2014, will continue to
> > participate in the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program
> > (FEHBP). This program, considered among the best in the nation,
> > allows federal employees- including Members of Congress and
> > their staff- to choose from a wide range of health plans and
> > select the one that best suits their needs. Note that the
> > current plan is neither `government' insurance, `free' insurance
> > nor any other sort of sweet deal that the public has been led to
> > believe is the case. The federal employee's program involves
> > private insurance policies with premiums, deductibles, co-pays, etc.
> >
> > Here's the surprise ?€" come 2014, when the lion's share of the
> > ACA provisions come on line, Members of Congress and their staff
> > will be required to buy their health insurance on an exchange.
> > In fact, their choices will be even more limited than our own.
> > While it is expected that some 24 million people will elect to
> > purchase their health care policy on a state run exchange, we
> > are not required by law to do so. Members of Congress and their
> > staff, however, must buy their insurance in this way.
> >
> > --- In , KenSP@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Perhaps, the government with such a?? law forcing doctors to
> > take Medicare and Medicaid patients should also further reduce
> > the Medicare and Medicaid?? doctor's reimbursement to one dollar
> > per visit to save tax dollars. Once such a law goes through,
> > what rational person will want to become a doctor or stay in the
> > US rather than going elsewhere to practice medicine. Should we
> > forbid doctors from leaving the country? Other countries just
> > like the US will always allow and accept doctors within its
> > borders .?? So with such a law forcing doctors to accept Medicare
> > and Medicaid patients, we will have even?? less doctors than we
> > have today.In some areas of Canada, you have to wait 3 years to
> > be assigned a primary care physician.?? It is this doctor who
> > determines what tests you need or don't need under their
> > system.?? To avoid this issue, ACA, makes a registered nurse a
> > patient's primary care person and she determines whether you see
> > the doctor or what test you need..?? (Remember Nancy said you
> > have to pass ACA first before you know what is in it.)However
> > for treatment in many countries, if you pay cash just like in
> > England, any doctor is willing to see at any time and treat you
> > first before he treats those with government health care
> > insurance. Doctors can set priority rules as to what patients
> > they see first and who they see last unless this also is going
> > to be regulated by the government.?? -- Is this Socialism or
> > Communism? When working for IBM in Europe, as a US citizen I had
> > to pay cash and then file with IBM for medical reimbursement
> > since I was not covered under the European system. I had no
> > problems in finding doctors or dentists who were US trained.Save
> > your money for US medical treatment especially when a 15 member
> > non-medical appointed government board who are exempt from ACA
> > will decide what is covered and not covered under Medicare or
> > ACA. Trust the government.Ask yourself why did the Canadian PM
> > go to the Florida and pay cash for a heart operation rather than
> > staying in Canada?? for treatment.?? When asked about this, his
> > reply was that no one should tell him how to spend his money.But
> > in a socialistic state, all persons are equal but some (party or
> > govenrment officials) are more equal than others.?? Congress and
> > the President are exempt from ACA and therefore are more equal
> > then other US citizens when it comes to healthcare. Would the
> > law have passed if they knew it would be applied to them and
> > their family? RegardsFrom an IBM retired person in his 70's and
> > having limited income, who watches this area closely.-----
> > Original Message -----From: ibmchiapetrescue Date: Friday,
> > December 28, 2012 11:02 pmSubject: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health
> > care law(PPACA) may help Baby BoomersTo:
> > > Found this on another board: >
> > > Every American citizen over the age of 65 should press their >
> > congressmen or state legislatures to compel any doctor who >
> > received any government assistance or government loan in their >
> > education or career to accept any senior citizen who is covered
> > > by Medicare.> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>

Happy to know that you don't need flu, pneumonia, hepatitis, tetanus or many other vaccines; screenings for blood pressure, cholesterol, cancer, depression, diabetes, STDs, HIV, Osteoporosis,??etc;.?? You must be very healthy indeed.?? For those of us who are mortal you can find the full lists at .

--- On Sat, 12/29/12, zimowski@... <zimowski@...> wrote:


From: zimowski@... <zimowski@...>
Subject: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers
To: ibmpensionissues@...
Date: Saturday, December 29, 2012, 11:57 AM



??



The free preventative care that ACA offers is more hype than substance - just an ACA buzzword for those who have been tricked into voicing support for this program but never take the time to investigate what it really provides. There is a very short list of procedures that are covered, and when I perused the list, I could not find a single procedure that I think I'll need. What a joke....

--- In ibmpensionissues@..., Sheila Beaudry <sbbeaudry@> wrote:

Considering the high cost of the IBM insurance the private exchanges will probably be cheaper.???? Within????9 years our costs went from $60 to $1400/month for just the 2 of us.???? ACA makes them give free preventive care so over time this should lower costs as people take care of things before conditions worsen and become more expensive to treat.???? If right wingers hadn't made????such a fuss inaccurately claiming "death panels" there would be doctor sessions where the doctor could explain about palliative care as opposed to extreme measures for those who are terminal.???? There was a good article in Money magazine saying that palliative care was not only cheaper but actually extended the patient's life.???? The ACA also requires that the insurance companies spend more money on actual patient care and less on overhead like the millions to the CEO.???? Those companies that????spent too much money on overhead????had to give money back to the people or

in the case of

company provided coverage, to the company.????In August $1.1 billion in all was suppose to be returned.????I wonder if IBM used any of the money to lower premiums or just used it to increase their profit?
????????
--- On Fri, 12/28/12, Don Mininger <don_m64015@> wrote:


From: Don Mininger <don_m64015@>
Subject: Re: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers
To: "ibmpensionissues@..." <ibmpensionissues@...>
Date: Friday, December 28, 2012, 1:42 PM



????





Anyone who thinks the ACA is going to reduce medical care costs is living in a dream world. ????There is a Reason why many of the provisions are being phased in over a period of several years. ????If all the rules in this legislation kicked in at once, the nation would go into Sticker Shock. ????Any fees, etc., added to the health care providers will Surely be passed along to the consumers and patients. ????The Private Insurance companies have their needs well protected under this legislation, and any costs they incur will be passed along to their subscribers in the form of higher premiums and co-pays. ????For Seniors, this combination of Medicare, and the IBM Supplemental plans, are probably one of the best deals out there....let's hope the government doesn't screw with them too much. ????


Ultimately, the medical costs are going to keep rising at a pace that makes care unaffordable for much of the nation....and we will be forced to adopt some form of a SP-UHC system similar to what most of the other nations have been using for years. ????I see that happening before this decade is out. ????We cannot keep paying twice as much for care, as most other nations...and continue to be ranked way down the list in terms of value received for that money. ????The data at the CDC indicates that over 80% ????of this nations medical costs are expended upon less than 15% of our population. ????Much of that is spent on the elderly in the last weeks of their lives, as our Health Care Industry uses them as Lab Rats to sustain life with every possible heroic measure. ????Then, we have to overcome the practice of Defensive Medicine...where doctors are having to order multiple, expensive tests...so as to protect themselves from the army of ambulance chasing

lawyers that are

just looking for an excuse to bring a multi-million dollar lawsuit for every perceived error in treatment. ????Many doctors pay well over $100K a year for Malpractice Insurance, so as to be protected from these Legal Buzzards....and you KNOW who pays for that. ???? ????


Our current health care system is destined to implode under its own weight...and the ACA is going to only hasten the day when that happens. ???? ???? ???? ???? ????????






From: "zimowski@" <zimowski@>
To: ibmpensionissues@...
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 11:35 AM
Subject: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers



????

The more interesting snip is the following: "Health insurance will not necessarily be less costly. It will be operated by state health insurance exchanges, which will offer a competitive private health insurance market that should provide one-stop shopping."

Can anyone explain how the ACA benefits those IBM retirees that are lucky enough to have IBM subsidized health care coverage? I don't see it.

--- In ibmpensionissues@..., "teamb562" <teamb562@> wrote:

snip:
The ACA is likely to spark many more changes. Employers that still offer retiree health benefits may decide to provide something different. For example, instead of a health insurance plan, they may give Boomer retirees a fixed amount of money, called a premium reimbursement, Fontanetta says. Retirees could use that money to select insurance at their state exchange marketplace.

I have had the measles, mumps and chicken pox so don't feel that
I need these immunizations.

...

I get a flu shot every year, but don't ever expect to need
immunization for herpes zoster

I guess you don't realize that herpes zoster is the virus that causes both chicken pox and shingles. If you've had chicken pox, that does NOT make you immune from shingles. In fact, it makes it more likely that you WILL get shingles at some point.

You should talk to your doctor about what you really *do* need instead of making bad assumptions.

X-rays, CT scans and MRIs are not done as preventative measures, but as diagnostic procedures when a problem is suspected. That's why they aren't included in the "preventative" list.

Overall, it sounds like you are really just struggling for excuses as to why you shouldn't like the ACA. If it's really of no value to you, that's fine. It's highly valuable to millions of others.

--- In ibmpensionissues@..., "zimowski@" <zimowski@> wrote:

I'm an adult male, so here's what's covered for me:

16 Covered Preventive Services for Adults

1.Abdominal Aortic Aneurysm one-time screening for men of specified ages who have ever smoked
2.Alcohol Misuse screening and counseling
3.Aspirin use for men and women of certain ages
4.Blood Pressure screening for all adults
5.Cholesterol screening for adults of certain ages or at higher risk
6.Colorectal Cancer screening for adults over 50
7.Depression screening for adults
8.Type 2 Diabetes screening for adults with high blood pressure
9.Diet counseling for adults at higher risk for chronic disease
10.HIV screening for all adults at higher risk
11.Immunization vaccines for adults--doses, recommended ages, and recommended populations vary:
Hepatitis A
Hepatitis B
Herpes Zoster
Human Papillomavirus
Influenza (Flu Shot)
Measles, Mumps, Rubella
Meningococcal
Pneumococcal
Tetanus, Diphtheria, Pertussis
Varicella
Learn more about immunizations and see the latest vaccine schedules.
13.Obesity screening and counseling for all adults
14.Sexually Transmitted Infection (STI) prevention counseling for adults at higher risk
15.Tobacco Use screening for all adults and cessation interventions for tobacco users
16.Syphilis screening for all adults at higher risk

Item 1 doesn't apply to me. I don't misuse alcohol, already manage my own diet and am not worried at all about obesity, do not smoke, and am not sexually active in a way that would expose me to sexually transmitted diseases, so items 2, 9, 10, 13, 14, 15, and 16 are of no use to me. I don't need guidance on how to use aspirin, so item 3 is of little value. I have never been depressed so item 7 is of no value. I exercise daily and and not overweight, so item 8 is of no value. items 4, 5, 6, and 11 could be of value, but my HMO already provides these services at no additional cost. Further, given my daily exercise and carefully managed diet, all of my tests for the last 20 years have confirmed that my blood pressure and cholesterol levels are consistently low, so I doubt that items 4 and 5 would ever be of value to me. Item 6 would be of value, but I think the screening is only called for once in every decade and my healthy lifestyle makes the risk low. Yes. I get a flu shot every year, but don't ever expect to need immunization for herpes zoster or human papillomavirus. I have had the measles, mumps and chicken pox so don't feel that I need these immunizations. Tetanus, diphtheria, and pertussis could be of value, and might some day need the meningococcal and pneumococcal immunizations, although I think my chances of contacting either of these two diseases is remote. So yes, I am healthy. Do you really need to protect yourself from HIV and STDs? My feeling is that valuable and meaningful preventative care would cover more expensive procedures like x-rays or MRI and CT scans. Even if they weren't provided by my HMO, I can afford to pay for the immunizations that are covered, so the only item that is of any real value is item 6, and given that it is only needed every decade, I'm sure I could budget for it. ACA is of little value to me. In fact, I think it's a negative for me, because I think it may motivate IBM to drop the current health care plan that some of us retirees still have. Having to depend on the health exchanges might bring on depression.



--- In ibmpensionissues@..., Sheila Beaudry <sbbeaudry@> wrote:

Happy to know that you don't need flu, pneumonia, hepatitis, tetanus or many other vaccines; screenings for blood pressure, cholesterol, cancer, depression, diabetes, STDs, HIV, Osteoporosis,??etc;.?? You must be very healthy indeed.?? For those of us who are mortal you can find the full lists at .

--- On Sat, 12/29/12, zimowski@ <zimowski@> wrote:


From: zimowski@ <zimowski@>
Subject: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers
To: ibmpensionissues@...
Date: Saturday, December 29, 2012, 11:57 AM



??



The free preventative care that ACA offers is more hype than substance - just an ACA buzzword for those who have been tricked into voicing support for this program but never take the time to investigate what it really provides. There is a very short list of procedures that are covered, and when I perused the list, I could not find a single procedure that I think I'll need. What a joke....

--- In ibmpensionissues@..., Sheila Beaudry <sbbeaudry@> wrote:

Considering the high cost of the IBM insurance the private exchanges will probably be cheaper.???? Within????9 years our costs went from $60 to $1400/month for just the 2 of us.???? ACA makes them give free preventive care so over time this should lower costs as people take care of things before conditions worsen and become more expensive to treat.???? If right wingers hadn't made????such a fuss inaccurately claiming "death panels" there would be doctor sessions where the doctor could explain about palliative care as opposed to extreme measures for those who are terminal.???? There was a good article in Money magazine saying that palliative care was not only cheaper but actually extended the patient's life.???? The ACA also requires that the insurance companies spend more money on actual patient care and less on overhead like the millions to the CEO.???? Those companies that????spent too much money on overhead????had to give money back to the people or

in the case of

company provided coverage, to the company.????In August $1.1 billion in all was suppose to be returned.????I wonder if IBM used any of the money to lower premiums or just used it to increase their profit?
????????
--- On Fri, 12/28/12, Don Mininger <don_m64015@> wrote:


From: Don Mininger <don_m64015@>
Subject: Re: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers
To: "ibmpensionissues@..." <ibmpensionissues@...>
Date: Friday, December 28, 2012, 1:42 PM



????





Anyone who thinks the ACA is going to reduce medical care costs is living in a dream world. ????There is a Reason why many of the provisions are being phased in over a period of several years. ????If all the rules in this legislation kicked in at once, the nation would go into Sticker Shock. ????Any fees, etc., added to the health care providers will Surely be passed along to the consumers and patients. ????The Private Insurance companies have their needs well protected under this legislation, and any costs they incur will be passed along to their subscribers in the form of higher premiums and co-pays. ????For Seniors, this combination of Medicare, and the IBM Supplemental plans, are probably one of the best deals out there....let's hope the government doesn't screw with them too much. ????


Ultimately, the medical costs are going to keep rising at a pace that makes care unaffordable for much of the nation....and we will be forced to adopt some form of a SP-UHC system similar to what most of the other nations have been using for years. ????I see that happening before this decade is out. ????We cannot keep paying twice as much for care, as most other nations...and continue to be ranked way down the list in terms of value received for that money. ????The data at the CDC indicates that over 80% ????of this nations medical costs are expended upon less than 15% of our population. ????Much of that is spent on the elderly in the last weeks of their lives, as our Health Care Industry uses them as Lab Rats to sustain life with every possible heroic measure. ????Then, we have to overcome the practice of Defensive Medicine...where doctors are having to order multiple, expensive tests...so as to protect themselves from the army of ambulance chasing

lawyers that are

just looking for an excuse to bring a multi-million dollar lawsuit for every perceived error in treatment. ????Many doctors pay well over $100K a year for Malpractice Insurance, so as to be protected from these Legal Buzzards....and you KNOW who pays for that. ???? ????


Our current health care system is destined to implode under its own weight...and the ACA is going to only hasten the day when that happens. ???? ???? ???? ???? ????????






From: "zimowski@" <zimowski@>
To: ibmpensionissues@...
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 11:35 AM
Subject: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Health care law(PPACA) may help Baby Boomers



????

The more interesting snip is the following: "Health insurance will not necessarily be less costly. It will be operated by state health insurance exchanges, which will offer a competitive private health insurance market that should provide one-stop shopping."

Can anyone explain how the ACA benefits those IBM retirees that are lucky enough to have IBM subsidized health care coverage? I don't see it.

--- In ibmpensionissues@..., "teamb562" <teamb562@> wrote:

snip:
The ACA is likely to spark many more changes. Employers that still offer retiree health benefits may decide to provide something different. For example, instead of a health insurance plan, they may give Boomer retirees a fixed amount of money, called a premium reimbursement, Fontanetta says. Retirees could use that money to select insurance at their state exchange marketplace.

The point I was trying to make is that ACA preventative care does not provide significant coverage of any kind because the services that are covered are for the most part inexpensive and easily affordable. The real purpose of ACA preventative care was/is to make the middle class feel like they are getting something for all the tax money ACA will cost the average middle class American.

I think I've made it clear that I don't think ACA is of value to me. It's not, and I'm opposed to spending U.S. tax dollars to put it in place and to fund it. This, however, does not mean that I don't understand what herpes zoster is and that I don't discuss my health needs with my doctor. As far as x-rays, CT scans and MRI scans go, I agree they are mostly for diagnostic purposes, but a doctor cannot see what's going on inside my body any better than I can. Much of what doctors do is guess and use a cookie cutter approach to align a diagnosis with observed symptoms. In my case, one guess was incorrect, and led to a much more serious situation. An MRI scan would have prevented this.