I am working on a PCB for etching using toner transfer. My first attempts
show the default trace dimensions (clearance 0.2 mm, track width 0.25 mm) do
not transfer well - there are visible breaks in the traces, some of which
barely transfer at all.

What dimensions (without excessive width) are likely to be more successful?

0.5mm traces might be easier, but if you can't do those I think there
is something else wrong with your process.
Type of paper, copper preparation, toner, method of heating (iron /
laminator) all play an important role.

ST

On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 9:11 AM, Vagulus <rick@...> wrote:

I am working on a PCB for etching using toner transfer. My first attempts
show the default trace dimensions (clearance 0.2 mm, track width 0.25 mm) do
not transfer well - there are visible breaks in the traces, some of which
barely transfer at all.

What dimensions (without excessive width) are likely to be more successful?

I think most proponents of toner transfer would agree that this is a dark art.

?

Rob has described a method that works for him and you tend to stick with what works - which makes good sense.

?

There are many variables which make for a different result in your situation. First most would be the printer that you use and the toner characteristics. The best thing is to experiment but not take what works for one person as gospel so that you are disappointed with the result. Experiment.

?

I don¡¯t use special paper. Glossy travel brochures are free ?and work with the HP printer that I use.

I do not scratch my copper board or clean it with chemicals at all - or even wipe with a damp spaniel.

I have a large and fairly ¡°hard¡± eraser originally intended for carpentry use which has fine particles so that I get a good clean shine.

Under the microscope there are fine scratches but I don¡¯t need to score it.

?

I use a laminator, albeit a heavy job intended for office work and not a ten quid cheapie.

?

I have never needed to go over the toner with a pen and I use Ferric Chloride as etchant.
I can get consistent results of track widths to 0.7mm

?

So what that all says is that Robs method works for him and mine works for me and he is right when he says ?¡°It¡¯s a real crap shoot where you NEVER will get the desired results UNLESS YOU EXPERIMENT AND DOCUMENT¡±.

Start with what you have to hand - and what is free - like paper. Work up from that and don't be discouraged if the first few attempts fail. Try all the methods that have been suggested. It's worth it in the end.

?

Here are some examples of my boards:

?

72/73

Tony G4WIF

I think most proponents of toner transfer would agree that this is a dark art.

?

Rob has described a method that works for him and you tend to stick with what works - which makes good sense.

?

There are many variables which make for a different result in your situation. First most would be the printer that you use and the toner characteristics. The best thing is to experiment but not take what works for one person as gospel so that you are disappointed with the result. Experiment.

?

I don¡¯t use special paper. Glossy travel brochures are free ?and work with the HP printer that I use.

I do not scratch my copper board or clean it with chemicals at all - or even wipe with a damp spaniel.

I have a large and fairly ¡°hard¡± eraser originally intended for carpentry use which has fine particles so that I get a good clean shine.

Under the microscope there are fine scratches but I don¡¯t need to score it.

?

I use a laminator, albeit a heavy job intended for office work and not a ten quid cheapie.

?

I have never needed to go over the toner with a pen and I use Ferric Chloride as etchant.
I can get consistent results of track widths to 0.7mm

?

So what that all says is that Robs method works for him and mine works for me and he is right when he says ?¡°It¡¯s a real crap shoot where you NEVER will get the desired results UNLESS YOU EXPERIMENT AND DOCUMENT¡±.

Start with what you have to hand - and what is free - like paper. Work up from that and don't be discouraged if the first few attempts fail. Try all the methods that have been suggested. It's worth it in the end.

?

Here are some examples of my boards:

?

72/73

Tony G4WIF

One way to get rid of ¡°pinholes¡± in the toner is to put the board in acetone vapor for 30 minutes or so. The toner will melt and fill in small gaps and pinholes.

I routinely get 6 mil (.15 mm) traces using my modified laser printer that deposits toner directly on copperclad boards. The printer works first time almost every time, even if it¡¯s been sitting on the shelf a few months.?

Mark

On Jul 1, 2018, at 6:24 PM, groupsio@... wrote:

I think most proponents of toner transfer would agree that this is a dark art.

?

Rob has described a method that works for him and you tend to stick with what works - which makes good sense.

?

There are many variables which make for a different result in your situation. First most would be the printer that you use and the toner characteristics. The best thing is to experiment but not take what works for one person as gospel so that you are disappointed with the result. Experiment.

?

I don¡¯t use special paper. Glossy travel brochures are free ?and work with the HP printer that I use.

I do not scratch my copper board or clean it with chemicals at all - or even wipe with a damp spaniel.

I have a large and fairly ¡°hard¡± eraser originally intended for carpentry use which has fine particles so that I get a good clean shine.

Under the microscope there are fine scratches but I don¡¯t need to score it.

?

I use a laminator, albeit a heavy job intended for office work and not a ten quid cheapie.

?

I have never needed to go over the toner with a pen and I use Ferric Chloride as etchant.
I can get consistent results of track widths to 0.7mm

?

So what that all says is that Robs method works for him and mine works for me and he is right when he says ?¡°It¡¯s a real crap shoot where you NEVER will get the desired results UNLESS YOU EXPERIMENT AND DOCUMENT¡±.

Start with what you have to hand - and what is free - like paper. Work up from that and don't be discouraged if the first few attempts fail. Try all the methods that have been suggested. It's worth it in the end.

?

Here are some examples of my boards:

?

72/73

Tony G4WIF

Hey Mark... is that the PANTUM HACK????

On 07/01/2018 08:00 PM, Mark Lerman wrote:

One way to get rid of ?€?pinholes?€

Yes. There is also a Lexmark E260 hack, both on Instructables. The Pantum is MUCH less expensive - I bought 3 of them, new,? for $25 USD each, including shipping. The E260 makes a "cleaner" build because it prints as the paper travels horizontally while the Pantum, like most inexpensive laser printers, prints as the paper goes vertically up the back of the printer. To print on copperclad the printer has to be place rear end down, which is a bit awkward. But it does work well and is cheap.


Mark


At 11:22 PM 7/1/2018, you wrote:

Hey Mark... is that the PANTUM HACK????

On 07/01/2018 08:00 PM, Mark Lerman wrote:

One way to get rid of ?€?pinholes?€

Yes. There is also a Lexmark E260 hack, both on Instructables. The Pantum is MUCH less expensive - I bought 3 of them, new,? for $25 USD each, including shipping. The E260 makes a "cleaner" build because it prints as the paper travels horizontally while the Pantum, like most inexpensive laser printers, prints as the paper goes vertically up the back of the printer. To print on copperclad the printer has to be place rear end down, which is a bit awkward. But it does work well and is cheap.


Mark


At 11:22 PM 7/1/2018, you wrote:

Hey Mark... is that the PANTUM HACK????

On 07/01/2018 08:00 PM, Mark Lerman wrote:

One way to get rid of ?€?pinholes?€