On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 10:14:09 -0600, you wrote:

>Harvey,
>
>?? Ok, so after re-reading this again, did you build this from scratch
>or from exiting technologies?

Scratch.? The PC boards for the processor and display driver and so on
are home made double sided.? I did not make the linear rail, bought
that.? Camera ditto.?

Stepper driver was homemade, another PC board, power supply wasn't.
Basic support stand wasn't homemade.? Programming was a special
purpose program, don't think I used an operating system on this one.
however the display driver and such were off the shelf, but my shelf.

Box was repurposed from an old disk drive enclosure (which is where I
got the power supply).


>Sounds like a pretty complex project. I
>won't be attempting that any time soon. :) But I sure would like to see
>a pic of it.

I'll work on getting pictures of it.

>My Apache Laminator arrived yesterday and the kit to modify
>it the day before, so I am going to get started on that shortly. Your
>project listed below is very cool but I don't know that I would ever
>need to go that far into drilling my simple projects. I may see about
>putting my USB magnifier to good use though as the eyes are getting older...

The techniques I needed to be able to do 10/10 double sided boards
with relatively small vias, and those boards were pretty packed, at
least as far as traces were concerned.

I got tired of not having the top layer match the bottom layer.? I
have some ruined boards because of that.? Considering the work needed
to make a decent board, well, I wanted to maximize the return on the
effort.

Harvey


>
>Thanks
>
>On 3/8/2019 10:51 AM, Harvey White wrote:
>> On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 08:25:31 -0600, you wrote
>>
>>> So you use a tv camera now for your
>>> drilling? I have one of those cheap USB cameras that is a magnifier. Is
>>> that what you used?
>>
>> Actually, no.? It's a bit more elaborate than that.
>>
>> I have a linear rail that has about 6 inches of travel, then machined
>> a holder that holds the clamp for a proxxon drill.? The 12 volt
>> version works just fine.? That is driven by a linear stepper motor
>> (shaft attached, goes in and out of the motor).
>>
>> That in turn is driven by an old, but standard design (L297/L298
>> stepper driver system).? There are sensors on the linear rail for
>> bottom sensing and top sensing.
>>
>> I found an old Pace desoldering stand, the kind used for a hot air
>> desolderer.? It has a fixed height arm with a rack and pinion stage
>> for lowering the soldering tool.
>>
>> Cut a hole in that base and mounted the proxxon upside down so it goes
>> through the center of the hole.? Mounted an old vacuum cleaner nozzle
>> with a flexible extension so it removes debris from the underside.
>>
>> On the top slide, I mounted a surveilance TV camera, this one runs on
>> 12 volts too (most run on 24vac, and they're NOT kidding about the VAC
>> part because there's a small transformer in there that won't tolerate
>> DC).? With an extender, it short focuses enough that I get
>> magnification.? The small monitor is mounted above the camera.
>>
>> The electronics allow you to home, and set maximum travel.? Pressing a
>> footswitch starts a drill cycle, turns on the drill, moves it to the
>> up position, then back to a rest position.
>>
>> You need to recalibrate the xy position each time you change the drill
>> bit, however.
>>
>> With that, I can get very very close (say .001, I think) to the center
>> of a hole by using the crosshairs on the monitor.? Some 3D printing
>> would help out the project, since the original design was to use the
>> vacuum to hold the board down once the drill bit moved up.? That
>> didn't work as well.
>>
>> So no, no USB camera.? You could use one easily enough.? The
>> electronics could be duplicated easily enough with an arduino, but I
>> used a board that was designed to run a small graphics display that I
>> had a few of....
>>
>> So you get to see the position, and where it is in the cycle.
>>
>> A bit of overkill, perhaps, but it has proven its worth in board
>> drilling.? It does, by design, completely eliminate the parallax
>> problem which was a great inconvenience.
>>
>> Harvey
>>
>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>

On Sat, 09 Mar 2019 14:39:37 -0500, you wrote:

I borrowed Harvey's idea for an upside down drill press and made this:


< >

Nice job. Your's is more buildable by the average hobbiest, because
not only did you explain the steps, but you didn't really throw
technology at it.

I did, and could. Granted, it was technology I *had*, but it can be a
bit more.... hmmm.... complex than most want to do.

thanks for the credit, too. My idea came from a completely mechanical
setup I saw a picture of, once. Lots of lenses, mirrors, ground glass
screen, and so on. I hesitate to even imagine the price.

Harvey

On Sat, 09 Mar 2019 14:41:17 -0800, you wrote:

I made a small (6" x 8" x 12-14" tall) inverted drill press with a bolt together frame out of 8020 aluminum extrusions. The table is a 1/8" x 6" x 6" piece of "flat bar" steel. I used steel so it could be held to the frame with magnets to allow quick removal for easier access to change the drill bit. Two magnets on top of the PCB adequately hold it in place for drilling. The drill motor is an inexpensive 12V hobby motor. The drill is moved via a lever rotating?a cam (the "cam" is a 1.5" fender washer from the hardware store). It drills to an accuracy of about 0.001".

Nice. I had a large enough hole (and programmed the drill) so that it
could go to a "change" position. So it has effectively three
positions, home, top of drill, and change. The latter two are
adjustable.

I use a machinist's centering scope to view and center the PCB however, I think a video camera setup would be less awkward to use and I would be interested in a link or other information about one that would not require a computer to drive it and the display.

Oh, that's easy enough. Most hamfests have C lens mount cameras that
run off 24 volts (generally available in either color or B&W). They
have NTSC video out. I wanted to drive the whole system with 12
volts, so I found one (also at a hamfest) that ran off either 24 VAC
or 12 volts. Do be aware that the 24 volt ones have a transformer
inside and will burn out if you try to run them off DC. Depends on
what you want to run it on, nothing wrong with the 24 volt ones, they
just weren't convenient.

You can use any monitor that takes standard RS-170 (baseband) video as
from a VCR.

Printing a crosshatch/crosshairs on a transparency worked well as an
overlay. You'll want to be able to adjust the camera. Mine sits
about 5 to 6 inches off the board plane, but you will need a C mount
lens extender (just a threaded tube) that brings in the focus closer.

You may need to mess with which lens you use, I found that the optimum
distance and so on was a bit picky.

Harvey

Pictures of the drill are in the photos section in an album labeled Craig L's Photos. Some further details are in messages #34018, #34039 and #34088 of a rather long discussion that sometimes got sidetracked into an argument about the safety of autotransformers;


Craig L

On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 02:06 PM, Harvey White wrote:

On Sat, 09 Mar 2019 14:39:37 -0500, you wrote:

I borrowed Harvey's idea for an upside down drill press and made this:


<

Nice job. Your's is more buildable by the average hobbiest, because
not only did you explain the steps, but you didn't really throw
technology at it.

I did, and could. Granted, it was technology I *had*, but it can be a
bit more.... hmmm.... complex than most want to do.

thanks for the credit, too. My idea came from a completely mechanical
setup I saw a picture of, once. Lots of lenses, mirrors, ground glass
screen, and so on. I hesitate to even imagine the price.

Harvey

On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 10:14:09 -0600, you wrote:

Harvey,

? Ok, so after re-reading this again, did you build this from scratch
or from exiting technologies?

Scratch. The PC boards for the processor and display driver and so on
are home made double sided. I did not make the linear rail, bought
that. Camera ditto.

Stepper driver was homemade, another PC board, power supply wasn't.
Basic support stand wasn't homemade. Programming was a special
purpose program, don't think I used an operating system on this one.
however the display driver and such were off the shelf, but my shelf.

Box was repurposed from an old disk drive enclosure (which is where I
got the power supply).

Sounds like a pretty complex project. I
won't be attempting that any time soon. :) But I sure would like to see
a pic of it.

I'll work on getting pictures of it.

My Apache Laminator arrived yesterday and the kit to modify
it the day before, so I am going to get started on that shortly. Your
project listed below is very cool but I don't know that I would ever
need to go that far into drilling my simple projects. I may see about
putting my USB magnifier to good use though as the eyes are getting older...

The techniques I needed to be able to do 10/10 double sided boards
with relatively small vias, and those boards were pretty packed, at
least as far as traces were concerned.

I got tired of not having the top layer match the bottom layer. I
have some ruined boards because of that. Considering the work needed
to make a decent board, well, I wanted to maximize the return on the
effort.

Harvey

Thanks

On 3/8/2019 10:51 AM, Harvey White wrote:

On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 08:25:31 -0600, you wrote

So you use a tv camera now for your
drilling? I have one of those cheap USB cameras that is a magnifier. Is
that what you used?

Actually, no. It's a bit more elaborate than that.

I have a linear rail that has about 6 inches of travel, then machined
a holder that holds the clamp for a proxxon drill. The 12 volt
version works just fine. That is driven by a linear stepper motor
(shaft attached, goes in and out of the motor).

That in turn is driven by an old, but standard design (L297/L298
stepper driver system). There are sensors on the linear rail for
bottom sensing and top sensing.

I found an old Pace desoldering stand, the kind used for a hot air
desolderer. It has a fixed height arm with a rack and pinion stage
for lowering the soldering tool.

Cut a hole in that base and mounted the proxxon upside down so it goes
through the center of the hole. Mounted an old vacuum cleaner nozzle
with a flexible extension so it removes debris from the underside.

On the top slide, I mounted a surveilance TV camera, this one runs on
12 volts too (most run on 24vac, and they're NOT kidding about the VAC
part because there's a small transformer in there that won't tolerate
DC). With an extender, it short focuses enough that I get
magnification. The small monitor is mounted above the camera.

The electronics allow you to home, and set maximum travel. Pressing a
footswitch starts a drill cycle, turns on the drill, moves it to the
up position, then back to a rest position.

You need to recalibrate the xy position each time you change the drill
bit, however.

With that, I can get very very close (say .001, I think) to the center
of a hole by using the crosshairs on the monitor. Some 3D printing
would help out the project, since the original design was to use the
vacuum to hold the board down once the drill bit moved up. That
didn't work as well.

So no, no USB camera. You could use one easily enough. The
electronics could be duplicated easily enough with an arduino, but I
used a board that was designed to run a small graphics display that I
had a few of....

So you get to see the position, and where it is in the cycle.

A bit of overkill, perhaps, but it has proven its worth in board
drilling. It does, by design, completely eliminate the parallax
problem which was a great inconvenience.

Harvey

I borrowed Harvey's idea for an upside down drill press and made this:

< >

And for those who haven't already seen it, here's my Instructible for converting a $35 laser printer (I paid $25 USD, including shipping) into a direct pcb printer. This modified printer prints resist directly on copper clad, NOT toner transfer, and easily does? 8-10 mil traces.

< >

Mark





At 12:06 PM 3/9/2019, you wrote:

On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 10:14:09 -0600, you wrote:

>Harvey,
>
>?? Ok, so after re-reading this again, did you build this from scratch
>or from exiting technologies?

Scratch.? The PC boards for the processor and display driver and so on
are home made double sided.? I did not make the linear rail, bought
that.? Camera ditto.?

Stepper driver was homemade, another PC board, power supply wasn't.
Basic support stand wasn't homemade.? Programming was a special
purpose program, don't think I used an operating system on this one.
however the display driver and such were off the shelf, but my shelf.

Box was repurposed from an old disk drive enclosure (which is where I
got the power supply).


>Sounds like a pretty complex project. I
>won't be attempting that any time soon. :) But I sure would like to see
>a pic of it.

I'll work on getting pictures of it.

>My Apache Laminator arrived yesterday and the kit to modify
>it the day before, so I am going to get started on that shortly. Your
>project listed below is very cool but I don't know that I would ever
>need to go that far into drilling my simple projects. I may see about
>putting my USB magnifier to good use though as the eyes are getting older...

The techniques I needed to be able to do 10/10 double sided boards
with relatively small vias, and those boards were pretty packed, at
least as far as traces were concerned.

I got tired of not having the top layer match the bottom layer.? I
have some ruined boards because of that.? Considering the work needed
to make a decent board, well, I wanted to maximize the return on the
effort.

Harvey

I made a small (6" x 8" x 12-14" tall) inverted drill press with a bolt together frame out of 8020 aluminum extrusions. The table is a 1/8" x 6" x 6" piece of "flat bar" steel. I used steel so it could be held to the frame with magnets to allow quick removal for easier access to change the drill bit. Two magnets on top of the PCB adequately hold it in place for drilling. The drill motor is an inexpensive 12V hobby motor. The drill is moved via a lever rotating?a cam (the "cam" is a 1.5" fender washer from the hardware store). It drills to an accuracy of about 0.001".

?

I use a machinist's centering scope to view and center the PCB however, I think a video camera setup would be less awkward to use and I would be interested in a link or other information about one that would not require a computer to drive it and the display.

?

Pictures of the drill are in the photos section in an album labeled Craig L's Photos. Some further details are in messages #34018, #34039 and #34088 of a rather long discussion that sometimes got sidetracked into an argument about the safety of autotransformers;

?

Craig L

On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 02:06 PM, Harvey White wrote:

On Sat, 09 Mar 2019 14:39:37 -0500, you wrote:

I borrowed Harvey's idea for an upside down drill press and made this:


< >

Nice job. Your's is more buildable by the average hobbiest, because
not only did you explain the steps, but you didn't really throw
technology at it.

I did, and could. Granted, it was technology I *had*, but it can be a
bit more.... hmmm.... complex than most want to do.

thanks for the credit, too. My idea came from a completely mechanical
setup I saw a picture of, once. Lots of lenses, mirrors, ground glass
screen, and so on. I hesitate to even imagine the price.

Harvey

A nice simple way to get a camera that doesn't tie up your computer is to use a USB camera that plugs into your smart phone. There are numerous apps for use with USB microscopes, boresights and cameras. You could even use a phone that is no longer in use since these are local aps.

(The other) Harvey

On 3/9/2019 4:14 PM, Harvey White wrote:

On Sat, 09 Mar 2019 14:41:17 -0800, you wrote:

I made a small (6" x 8" x 12-14" tall) inverted drill press with a bolt together frame out of 8020 aluminum extrusions. The table is a 1/8" x 6" x 6" piece of "flat bar" steel. I used steel so it could be held to the frame with magnets to allow quick removal for easier access to change the drill bit. Two magnets on top of the PCB adequately hold it in place for drilling. The drill motor is an inexpensive 12V hobby motor. The drill is moved via a lever rotating?a cam (the "cam" is a 1.5" fender washer from the hardware store). It drills to an accuracy of about 0.001".

Nice.? I had a large enough hole (and programmed the drill) so that it
could go to a "change" position.? So it has effectively three
positions, home, top of drill, and change.? The latter two are
adjustable.

I use a machinist's centering scope to view and center the PCB however, I think a video camera setup would be less awkward to use and I would be interested in a link or other information about one that would not require a computer to drive it and the display.

Oh, that's easy enough.? Most hamfests have C lens mount cameras that
run off 24 volts (generally available in either color or B&W).? They
have NTSC video out.? I wanted to drive the whole system with 12
volts, so I found one (also at a hamfest) that ran off either 24 VAC
or 12 volts.? Do be aware that the 24 volt ones have a transformer
inside and will burn out if you try to run them off DC.? Depends on
what you want to run it on, nothing wrong with the 24 volt ones, they
just weren't convenient.

You can use any monitor that takes standard RS-170 (baseband) video as
from a VCR.

Printing a crosshatch/crosshairs on a transparency worked well as an
overlay.? You'll want to be able to adjust the camera.? Mine sits
about 5 to 6 inches off the board plane, but you will need a C mount
lens extender (just a threaded tube) that brings in the focus closer.

You may need to mess with which lens you use, I found that the optimum
distance and so on was a bit picky.

Harvey

Pictures of the drill are in the photos section in an album labeled Craig L's Photos. Some further details are in messages #34018, #34039 and #34088 of a rather long discussion that sometimes got sidetracked into an argument about the safety of autotransformers;


Craig L

On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 02:06 PM, Harvey White wrote:

On Sat, 09 Mar 2019 14:39:37 -0500, you wrote:

I borrowed Harvey's idea for an upside down drill press and made this:


<

Nice job. Your's is more buildable by the average hobbiest, because
not only did you explain the steps, but you didn't really throw
technology at it.

I did, and could. Granted, it was technology I *had*, but it can be a
bit more.... hmmm.... complex than most want to do.

thanks for the credit, too. My idea came from a completely mechanical
setup I saw a picture of, once. Lots of lenses, mirrors, ground glass
screen, and so on. I hesitate to even imagine the price.

Harvey

On Sat, 09 Mar 2019 14:41:17 -0800, you wrote:

I made a small (6" x 8" x 12-14" tall) inverted drill press with a bolt together frame out of 8020 aluminum extrusions. The table is a 1/8" x 6" x 6" piece of "flat bar" steel. I used steel so it could be held to the frame with magnets to allow quick removal for easier access to change the drill bit. Two magnets on top of the PCB adequately hold it in place for drilling. The drill motor is an inexpensive 12V hobby motor. The drill is moved via a lever rotating?a cam (the "cam" is a 1.5" fender washer from the hardware store). It drills to an accuracy of about 0.001".

Nice. I had a large enough hole (and programmed the drill) so that it
could go to a "change" position. So it has effectively three
positions, home, top of drill, and change. The latter two are
adjustable.

I use a machinist's centering scope to view and center the PCB however, I think a video camera setup would be less awkward to use and I would be interested in a link or other information about one that would not require a computer to drive it and the display.

Oh, that's easy enough. Most hamfests have C lens mount cameras that
run off 24 volts (generally available in either color or B&W). They
have NTSC video out. I wanted to drive the whole system with 12
volts, so I found one (also at a hamfest) that ran off either 24 VAC
or 12 volts. Do be aware that the 24 volt ones have a transformer
inside and will burn out if you try to run them off DC. Depends on
what you want to run it on, nothing wrong with the 24 volt ones, they
just weren't convenient.

You can use any monitor that takes standard RS-170 (baseband) video as
from a VCR.

Printing a crosshatch/crosshairs on a transparency worked well as an
overlay. You'll want to be able to adjust the camera. Mine sits
about 5 to 6 inches off the board plane, but you will need a C mount
lens extender (just a threaded tube) that brings in the focus closer.

You may need to mess with which lens you use, I found that the optimum
distance and so on was a bit picky.

Harvey

Pictures of the drill are in the photos section in an album labeled Craig L's Photos. Some further details are in messages #34018, #34039 and #34088 of a rather long discussion that sometimes got sidetracked into an argument about the safety of autotransformers;


Craig L

On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 02:06 PM, Harvey White wrote:

On Sat, 09 Mar 2019 14:39:37 -0500, you wrote:

I borrowed Harvey's idea for an upside down drill press and made this:


<

Nice job. Your's is more buildable by the average hobbiest, because
not only did you explain the steps, but you didn't really throw
technology at it.

I did, and could. Granted, it was technology I *had*, but it can be a
bit more.... hmmm.... complex than most want to do.

thanks for the credit, too. My idea came from a completely mechanical
setup I saw a picture of, once. Lots of lenses, mirrors, ground glass
screen, and so on. I hesitate to even imagine the price.

Harvey

I guess I need to logon to the forum to find the photos section to check this out . I will definitely check it out though. Is this above and beyond the Instructable with more info or a different project?

Thanks

On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 18:18:11 -0600, you wrote:

You sound like a high tech kind of hobbyist. I like! :) Of course I
won't attempt that big of a project as I have many others on the back
burner already. But I still have a great interest in it. And I am a
hoarder in a sense so I have a lot of old electronics to salvage things
from. Looks like you accomplished your goal with this one. Great job!

I'll try to upload pictures into a folder some time tomorrow (sunday
3/10/19).

Yeah, somewhat high tech here. Electronics lab with HP, tektronix,
fluke, (and others). Metcal soldering, binocular microscope, SMT
technology, FPGAs, CPLDs, ARM processors programmed in C (would have
done C++ but the manufacturer's firmware and tools don't like C++).

might as well be serious about it.... <grin>

Lets me do the bigger projects....

Harvey

Dave

On 3/9/2019 11:06 AM, Harvey White wrote:

On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 10:14:09 -0600, you wrote:

Harvey,

? Ok, so after re-reading this again, did you build this from scratch
or from exiting technologies?

Scratch. The PC boards for the processor and display driver and so on
are home made double sided. I did not make the linear rail, bought
that. Camera ditto.

Stepper driver was homemade, another PC board, power supply wasn't.
Basic support stand wasn't homemade. Programming was a special
purpose program, don't think I used an operating system on this one.
however the display driver and such were off the shelf, but my shelf.

Box was repurposed from an old disk drive enclosure (which is where I
got the power supply).

Sounds like a pretty complex project. I
won't be attempting that any time soon. :) But I sure would like to see
a pic of it.

I'll work on getting pictures of it.

My Apache Laminator arrived yesterday and the kit to modify
it the day before, so I am going to get started on that shortly. Your
project listed below is very cool but I don't know that I would ever
need to go that far into drilling my simple projects. I may see about
putting my USB magnifier to good use though as the eyes are getting older...

The techniques I needed to be able to do 10/10 double sided boards
with relatively small vias, and those boards were pretty packed, at
least as far as traces were concerned.

I got tired of not having the top layer match the bottom layer. I
have some ruined boards because of that. Considering the work needed
to make a decent board, well, I wanted to maximize the return on the
effort.

Harvey

Thanks

On 3/8/2019 10:51 AM, Harvey White wrote:

On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 08:25:31 -0600, you wrote

So you use a tv camera now for your
drilling? I have one of those cheap USB cameras that is a magnifier. Is
that what you used?

Actually, no. It's a bit more elaborate than that.

I have a linear rail that has about 6 inches of travel, then machined
a holder that holds the clamp for a proxxon drill. The 12 volt
version works just fine. That is driven by a linear stepper motor
(shaft attached, goes in and out of the motor).

That in turn is driven by an old, but standard design (L297/L298
stepper driver system). There are sensors on the linear rail for
bottom sensing and top sensing.

I found an old Pace desoldering stand, the kind used for a hot air
desolderer. It has a fixed height arm with a rack and pinion stage
for lowering the soldering tool.

Cut a hole in that base and mounted the proxxon upside down so it goes
through the center of the hole. Mounted an old vacuum cleaner nozzle
with a flexible extension so it removes debris from the underside.

On the top slide, I mounted a surveilance TV camera, this one runs on
12 volts too (most run on 24vac, and they're NOT kidding about the VAC
part because there's a small transformer in there that won't tolerate
DC). With an extender, it short focuses enough that I get
magnification. The small monitor is mounted above the camera.

The electronics allow you to home, and set maximum travel. Pressing a
footswitch starts a drill cycle, turns on the drill, moves it to the
up position, then back to a rest position.

You need to recalibrate the xy position each time you change the drill
bit, however.

With that, I can get very very close (say .001, I think) to the center
of a hole by using the crosshairs on the monitor. Some 3D printing
would help out the project, since the original design was to use the
vacuum to hold the board down once the drill bit moved up. That
didn't work as well.

So no, no USB camera. You could use one easily enough. The
electronics could be duplicated easily enough with an arduino, but I
used a board that was designed to run a small graphics display that I
had a few of....

So you get to see the position, and where it is in the cycle.

A bit of overkill, perhaps, but it has proven its worth in board
drilling. It does, by design, completely eliminate the parallax
problem which was a great inconvenience.

Harvey

On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 18:39:01 -0600, you wrote:

I have never been to a hamfest in my entire life. But I sure wish I had.
Lots of deals I read about involve a hamfest. Are they a thing of the
past or do they still have them? Are they more regional and if so, what
region? I am in the Florida panhandle. I may have to put this upside
drill on my bucket list of things to attempt to make. :)

I'm in Orlando.

Go to www.arrl.org and on the main page in tiny type you'll see
"hamfests" click on that and search. Most Florida hamfests are in
the winter, Alabama hamfests are in the summer....

They do have them, lots anywhere, and you'd like to go. NO guarantee
that you'll find anything good, very much depends on the area, surplus
stores, nearby technology. Generally you'll find boat anchors
(literally almost, heavy piece of obsolete electronics that you use
for a .......)
most is radio and ham equipment. Some is chinese imports,
occasionally you'll find test equipment, absolutely NO guarantees....

If at all possible, test before you buy, understand what you're
buying.

I'd suggest the tekscopes list and the tekscopes2 list, both on
groups.io as well as the HP list. You'll get a much better idea of
what's where and there's a tremendous amount of expertise for fixing
older equipment on those lists.

Feel free do email me directly if you need to.

Harvey

On 3/9/2019 5:14 PM, Harvey White wrote:

On Sat, 09 Mar 2019 14:41:17 -0800, you wrote:

I made a small (6" x 8" x 12-14" tall) inverted drill press with a bolt together frame out of 8020 aluminum extrusions. The table is a 1/8" x 6" x 6" piece of "flat bar" steel. I used steel so it could be held to the frame with magnets to allow quick removal for easier access to change the drill bit. Two magnets on top of the PCB adequately hold it in place for drilling. The drill motor is an inexpensive 12V hobby motor. The drill is moved via a lever rotating?a cam (the "cam" is a 1.5" fender washer from the hardware store). It drills to an accuracy of about 0.001".

Nice. I had a large enough hole (and programmed the drill) so that it
could go to a "change" position. So it has effectively three
positions, home, top of drill, and change. The latter two are
adjustable.

I use a machinist's centering scope to view and center the PCB however, I think a video camera setup would be less awkward to use and I would be interested in a link or other information about one that would not require a computer to drive it and the display.

Oh, that's easy enough. Most hamfests have C lens mount cameras that
run off 24 volts (generally available in either color or B&W). They
have NTSC video out. I wanted to drive the whole system with 12
volts, so I found one (also at a hamfest) that ran off either 24 VAC
or 12 volts. Do be aware that the 24 volt ones have a transformer
inside and will burn out if you try to run them off DC. Depends on
what you want to run it on, nothing wrong with the 24 volt ones, they
just weren't convenient.

You can use any monitor that takes standard RS-170 (baseband) video as
from a VCR.

Printing a crosshatch/crosshairs on a transparency worked well as an
overlay. You'll want to be able to adjust the camera. Mine sits
about 5 to 6 inches off the board plane, but you will need a C mount
lens extender (just a threaded tube) that brings in the focus closer.

You may need to mess with which lens you use, I found that the optimum
distance and so on was a bit picky.

Harvey

Pictures of the drill are in the photos section in an album labeled Craig L's Photos. Some further details are in messages #34018, #34039 and #34088 of a rather long discussion that sometimes got sidetracked into an argument about the safety of autotransformers;


Craig L

On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 02:06 PM, Harvey White wrote:

On Sat, 09 Mar 2019 14:39:37 -0500, you wrote:

I borrowed Harvey's idea for an upside down drill press and made this:


<

Nice job. Your's is more buildable by the average hobbiest, because
not only did you explain the steps, but you didn't really throw
technology at it.

I did, and could. Granted, it was technology I *had*, but it can be a
bit more.... hmmm.... complex than most want to do.

thanks for the credit, too. My idea came from a completely mechanical
setup I saw a picture of, once. Lots of lenses, mirrors, ground glass
screen, and so on. I hesitate to even imagine the price.

Harvey

On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 18:30:59 -0600, you wrote:

I guess I need to logon to the forum to find the photos section to check
this out . I will definitely check it out though. Is this above and
beyond the Instructable with more info or a different project?

Craig's project and mine are two different implementations of the same
concept. I kinda threw technology at it, he made it so that everybody
could do it.

Harvey

Thanks

On 3/9/2019 4:41 PM, Craig Lundquist wrote:

I made a small (6" x 8" x 12-14" tall) inverted drill press with a
bolt together frame out of 8020 aluminum extrusions. The table is a
1/8" x 6" x 6" piece of "flat bar" steel. I used steel so it could be
held to the frame with magnets to allow quick removal for easier
access to change the drill bit. Two magnets on top of the PCB
adequately hold it in place for drilling. The drill motor is an
inexpensive 12V hobby motor. The drill is moved via a lever rotating?a
cam (the "cam" is a 1.5" fender washer from the hardware store). It
drills to an accuracy of about 0.001".

I use a machinist's centering scope to view and center the PCB
however, I think a video camera setup would be less awkward to use and
I would be interested in a link or other information about one that
would not require a computer to drive it and the display.

Pictures of the drill are in the photos section in an album labeled
Craig L's Photos. Some further details are in messages #34018, #34039
and #34088 of a rather long discussion that sometimes got sidetracked
into an argument about the safety of autotransformers;

Craig L


On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 02:06 PM, Harvey White wrote:

On Sat, 09 Mar 2019 14:39:37 -0500, you wrote:

I borrowed Harvey's idea for an upside down drill press and
made this:


<

>

Nice job. Your's is more buildable by the average hobbiest, because
not only did you explain the steps, but you didn't really throw
technology at it.

I did, and could. Granted, it was technology I *had*, but it can be a
bit more.... hmmm.... complex than most want to do.

thanks for the credit, too. My idea came from a completely mechanical
setup I saw a picture of, once. Lots of lenses, mirrors, ground glass
screen, and so on. I hesitate to even imagine the price.

Harvey

It is a different project. Like Harvey White I used a linear slide (linear stage) to move the drill motor, only mine only had about 1 to 1-1/2 inches of travel to work with. Other than a video camera or other magnification device that is the most expensive part. If you are not in a hurry you should be able to get one from eBay for 20 to 30 dollars. Look for Del-tron, Parker, Thompson, THK, IKO or something similar. I'm not sure the 2 rod CNC / Z axis assemblies from China have the accuracy and low friction you want and may require more room than necessary.

?

Craig L

On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 04:31 PM, Dave wrote:

I guess I need to logon to the forum to find the photos section to check this out . I will definitely check it out though. Is this above and beyond the Instructable with more info or a different project?

Thanks

_._

I have use a similar but opposite system myself. I have been playing with under water ROVs for some time now and part of that requires video cameras for which I typically use the 12V, composite video, board camera modules. For mine I mounted the camera horizontally, mounted a mirror at a 45 degree angle in front of it then clamped it below the table of a HF bench top drill press. Took a few tries to get the camera centered under the center hole and I put some tape to mark the center point on the old TV I used for the display.

With a clamp-on work light on top shinning down on the board it was almost like a live X-ray, I could clearly see the traces on both sides and it seemed like I could even see some light through the traces themselves. It quickly showed how bad the two sided etching had gone but also allowed you to shoot for the overlap region. It also should that the drill press quill was not well aligned and that there was probably some runout due to the chuck being slightly angled from the shaft, but then again it was a bottom priced HF so these things are pretty much a given anyhow.

Mounting the camera off to the side with only the angled mirror under the holes eliminated the need for a vacuum and also meant that I could easily mount/unmount boards or position them by hand for each hole so that I had more control. Also the top side was open and clearly visible so I could switch back and forth between TV screen and looking straight at the board and drill bit.

The CMOS camera modules are about a inch cubed and are typically $40. There are similar USB cameras but they tie up a whole computer, not just a throw away old tv set.

--

"Creativity is intelligence having fun." — Albert Einstein

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