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I'm trying to get rolling on the photoresist method. I have a Samsung B&W laser printer which I have used for the toner transfer method and hoped to use to print my transparencies for the UV/photoresist method.
Looking at transparency film for laser printers, I'm seeing advice to operate the printer at lower temperature and/or set it up for printing transparencies.? My printer does not have these options.??
Does that mean I'll likely have trouble with my prints to transparencies?? Would I be better off trying to use an inkjet printer and the appropriate transparencies for that type of printer?
Thanks,
Nick, WA5BDU
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Hi Nick,
I have had much better luck with an inkjet printer and waterproof film used for screen printing than I ever had with a laser printer and transparencies. Very opaque, no pinholes, no need to double up. I find that the inkjet also has better dimensional accuracy. My laster tended to slightly change the scale of the image out to the edges. I do tell the printer to lay down maximum ink at maximum DPI. Other than that, nothing special.
Here are the films that I use, but I’m sure there are others that will work the same:
I don’t use any fancy ink. Just a cheap refill kit for HP cartridges.
Good luck,
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On Apr 10, 2021, at 3:43 PM, Nick Kennedy < kennnick@...> wrote:
I'm trying to get rolling on the photoresist method. I have a Samsung B&W laser printer which I have used for the toner transfer method and hoped to use to print my transparencies for the UV/photoresist method.
Looking at transparency film for laser printers, I'm seeing advice to operate the printer at lower temperature and/or set it up for printing transparencies.? My printer does not have these options.??
Does that mean I'll likely have trouble with my prints to transparencies?? Would I be better off trying to use an inkjet printer and the appropriate transparencies for that type of printer?
Thanks,
Nick, WA5BDU
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I used to get excellent results with an HP inkjet printer. I don't bother now and get my PCBs made in China.
Leon
On 10 Apr 2021 21:43, Nick Kennedy <kennnick@...> wrote: I'm trying to get rolling on the photoresist method. I have a Samsung B&W laser printer which I have used for the toner transfer method and hoped to use to print my transparencies for the UV/photoresist method.
Looking at transparency film for laser printers, I'm seeing advice to operate the printer at lower temperature and/or set it up for printing transparencies.? My printer does not have these options.??
Does that mean I'll likely have trouble with my prints to transparencies?? Would I be better off trying to use an inkjet printer and the appropriate transparencies for that type of printer?
Thanks,
Nick, WA5BDU
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In the
past I have only used Canon or Brother Inkjet Printers.
Even with special transparencies for laser printers, I have
never got good results while there was no problem with Inkjet
Printers.
73 de Jean-Claude, HB3YDH
Am 11.04.2021 um 17:48 schrieb Leon via
groups.io:
I used to get excellent results with an HP inkjet
printer. I don't bother now and get my PCBs made in China.
Leon
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Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.
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FWIW....
I've tried the laser transparencies.? The printer didn't lay down
enough toner at
it's heaviest setting, so I made two of them and carefully overlaid.?
That worked.
?
73,
Charlie, N0TT
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On Sat, 10 Apr 2021 13:43:20 -0700 "Nick Kennedy" < kennnick@...> writes:
I'm trying to get rolling on the photoresist method. I have a Samsung
B&W laser printer which I have used for the toner transfer method and
hoped to use to print my transparencies for the UV/photoresist
method.
Looking at transparency film for laser printers, I'm seeing
advice to operate the printer at lower temperature and/or set it up for
printing transparencies.? My printer does not have these
options.??
Does that mean I'll likely have trouble with my
prints to transparencies?? Would I be better off trying to use an inkjet
printer and the appropriate transparencies for that type of
printer?
Thanks,
Nick, WA5BDU
?
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Nick, you've undoubtedly already considered using "Kinko's" to achieve the results you are looking for... ??
Not familiar with inkjet transparencies.? I've used high temperature LaserJet transparencies, but they all seem to shrink a little bit...? Have considered disabling the fuser to just get the powdered image on the substrate for easier transfer.? Then I laid down until the feeling went away...
on another unsolicited side-bar, I have a Brother printer and to achieve adequate toner density have to run an image through twice.? Several trials always necessary and don't expect to have good 20 mil registration.? Can be made to work but usually with considerable effort.
Final thought, in turns, ask each of your neighbors to print something out for you on a transparency...? Then work on making the winner your "Printer-buddy"...
Cheers...! (no not drinking, always like this...)
--
Greg
KC9ZEW
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Thanks everyone.? I've decided to go with the inkjet printer and not risk issues with too-hot laser printing.
73-
Nick, WA5BDU
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Once you degine the feed as transperency,the printer accordingly takes care of.
On Wed, 14 Apr 2021, 17:20 Nick Kennedy, < kennnick@...> wrote: Thanks everyone.? I've decided to go with the inkjet printer and not risk issues with too-hot laser printing.
73-
Nick, WA5BDU
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To check for actual printer resolution and optimize it, ?I made resolution test charts. Also included is the standard USAF -1951 resolution chart. Bertho ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Nick Kennedy Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2021 20:19 To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [homebrewpcbs] Transparency film for laser printer ? Thanks everyone.? I've decided to go with the inkjet printer and not risk issues with too-hot laser printing.
73-
Nick, WA5BDU
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Please DO let us know how that works out for you....
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Charlie, N0TT
CU on Topband contests
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On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 17:18:58 -0700 "Nick Kennedy" < kennnick@...> writes:
Thanks everyone.? I've decided to go with the inkjet printer and not
risk issues with too-hot laser printing.
73-
Nick, WA5BDU
?
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As others have mentioned, laser printing artwork on transparencies is just too much of a headache to be worthwhile.? There's never a great way to ensure it's opaque enough and free from defects.? I've been using a Epson Artisan 1430 for years with great success, and even moved to a continuous ink supply system recently to really make refills painless and cheap.? The only trick is you need to anchor the transparency to a piece of paper with a couple pieces of tape since otherwise it won't register the presence of the transparency.? This appears to be fairly universal on Epson printers unfortunately, as there's no support for transparencies.
Anyway, highly recommended for quick, simple boards at home.? I usually coat my own PCB material with the "blue paint" photoresist found on eBay for a few bucks, mixed with ethanol since it's like actual paint consistency when you get it.? They recommend artificial banana oil to dilute it, however I could never find a source?for it.? Ethanol works very?well and allows me to spray on an even coat that dries quickly.? You might ask why I don't use dry film photoresist, however that stuff expires over time (They say to use it within 9 months when it's refrigerated) and I had too many experiences where I wasted time fighting to get it working when I could have just sprayed on photoresist and been done with it.? Despite being very inexpensive the paint photoresist has great resolution and durability, and I don't have to worry about laminating thick PCB stock that won't fit in my laminator, or issues with temperature control.
HTH- Larry
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On 26/4/21 10:57 pm, Larry Battraw wrote: As others have mentioned, laser printing artwork on transparencies is just too much of a headache to be worthwhile.? There's never a great way to ensure it's opaque enough and free from defects.? I've been using a Epson Artisan 1430 for years with great success, and even moved to a continuous ink supply system recently to really make refills painless and cheap.? The only trick is you need to anchor the transparency to a piece of paper with a couple pieces of tape since otherwise it won't register the presence of the transparency.? This appears to be fairly universal on Epson printers unfortunately, as there's no support for transparencies.
Anyway, highly recommended for quick, simple boards at home.? I usually coat my own PCB material with the "blue paint" photoresist found on eBay for a few bucks, mixed with ethanol since it's like actual paint consistency when you get it.? They recommend artificial banana oil to dilute it, however I could never find a source?for it.? Ethanol works very?well and allows me to spray on an even coat that dries quickly.? You might ask why I don't use dry film photoresist, however that stuff expires over time (They say to use it within 9 months when it's refrigerated) and I had too many experiences where I wasted time fighting to get it working when I could have just sprayed on photoresist and been done with it.? Despite being very inexpensive the paint photoresist has great resolution and durability, and I don't have to worry about laminating thick PCB stock that won't fit in my laminator, or issues with temperature control. I've used dryfilm resist 10 years old. It's fiddly stuff to get the plastic backing off it, but easy once you know how. Stick a piece of double-sided tape to the table top. Stick the corner of the film, backing side, onto it. Get another bit of double-sided tape and stick it on top of the corner of the film, then peel. The backing will separate. I'm also using an Artisan-1430 with a CISS. I use a heated roll laminator to apply the film to the board. That is also a bit fiddly until practiced.
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my two cents ...
I use to play with this kind of product to get the black mylar Darker
see here
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73's de F1CHF
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-------Message original-------
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Date : 26/04/2021 15:51:11
Sujet : Re: [homebrewpcbs] Transparency film for laser printer
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On 26/4/21 10:57 pm, Larry Battraw wrote:
> As others have mentioned, laser printing artwork on transparencies is just too
> much of a headache to be worthwhile.? There's never a great way to ensure it's
> opaque enough and free from defects.? I've been using a Epson Artisan 1430 for
> years with great success, and even moved to a continuous ink supply system
> recently to really make refills painless and cheap.? The only trick is you need
> to anchor the transparency to a piece of paper with a couple pieces of tape
> since otherwise it won't register the presence of the transparency.? This
> appears to be fairly universal on Epson printers unfortunately, as there's no
> support for transparencies.
>
> Anyway, highly recommended for quick, simple boards at home.? I usually coat my
> own PCB material with the "blue paint" photoresist found on eBay for a few
> bucks, mixed with ethanol since it's like actual paint consistency when you get
> it.? They recommend artificial banana oil to dilute it, however I could never
> find a source?for it.? Ethanol works very?well and allows me to spray on an even
> coat that dries quickly.? You might ask why I don't use dry film photoresist,
> however that stuff expires over time (They say to use it within 9 months when
> it's refrigerated) and I had too many experiences where I wasted time fighting
> to get it working when I could have just sprayed on photoresist and been done
> with it.? Despite being very inexpensive the paint photoresist has great
> resolution and durability, and I don't have to worry about laminating thick PCB
> stock that won't fit in my laminator, or issues with temperature control.
?
I've used dryfilm resist 10 years old.
?
It's fiddly stuff to get the plastic backing off it, but easy once you know how.
?
Stick a piece of double-sided tape to the table top.
?
Stick the corner of the film, backing side, onto it.
?
Get another bit of double-sided tape and stick it on top of the corner of the
film, then peel. The backing will separate.
?
I'm also using an Artisan-1430 with a CISS.
?
I use a heated roll laminator to apply the film to the board.
That is also a bit fiddly until practiced.
?
?
?
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Sure, I've used dry film for years, both laminated on and using the wet process.? I ran into issues when I kept it outside in the summer, as the first roll I bought was particularly stinky and I didn't have a dedicated fridge/freezer to store it in.? It got much less sensitive and was far more difficult to get usable exposures. ? I don't have anything in particular against?it,? it's just that the liquid photoresist is much cheaper and? seems to last forever, while producing really excellent results.? The best thing I can compare it to is factory-fresh dry film, and I don't have worry about my laminator gouging it with any bits of old film or PCB material that may be stuck to the roller.
As you have a 1430 CISS where do you source your ink from?? My last order showed up with black?ink that just isn't as dark as my older ink, which was almost perfectly black.? --Annoying since I bought a bunch.
Best?wishes- Larry
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On 28/4/21 5:24 am, Larry Battraw wrote: Sure, I've used dry film for years, both laminated on and using the wet process.? I ran into issues when I kept it outside in the summer, as the first roll I bought was particularly stinky and I didn't have a dedicated fridge/freezer to store it in.? It got much less sensitive and was far more difficult to get usable exposures.
? I don't have anything in particular against?it,? it's just that the liquid photoresist is much cheaper and? seems to last forever, while producing really excellent results.? The best thing I can compare it to is factory-fresh dry film, and I don't have worry about my laminator gouging it with any bits of old film or PCB material that may be stuck to the roller.
As you have a 1430 CISS where do you source your ink from?? My last order showed up with black?ink that just isn't as dark as my older ink, which was almost perfectly black.? --Annoying since I bought a bunch. I got the CISS kit from RIHAC and it had ink already in the bottles. <> I got a big bottle of black ink from them i haven't used yet. The ink needs to be 'dye' and not 'pigment' if it is to be absorbed into gelatine coat transparencies, which are the best of anything.
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On 28/4/21 5:24 am, Larry Battraw wrote: Sure, I've used dry film for years, both laminated on and using the wet process.? I ran into issues when I kept it outside in the summer, as the first roll I bought was particularly stinky and I didn't have a dedicated fridge/freezer to store it in.? It got much less sensitive and was far more difficult to get usable exposures.
? I don't have anything in particular against?it,? it's just that the liquid photoresist is much cheaper and? seems to last forever, while producing really excellent results.? The best thing I can compare it to is factory-fresh dry film, and I don't have worry about my laminator gouging it with any bits of old film or PCB material that may be stuck to the roller.
As you have a 1430 CISS where do you source your ink from?? My last order showed up with black?ink that just isn't as dark as my older ink, which was almost perfectly black.? --Annoying since I bought a bunch. I got the CISS kit from RIHAC and it had ink already in the bottles. <> I got a big bottle of black ink from them i haven't used yet. The ink needs to be 'dye' and not 'pigment' if it is to be absorbed into gelatine coat transparencies, which are the best of anything. I would have waited longer to get a refillable Epson Ecotank printer if i knew they were being released.
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Ah OK, too bad, probably not going to be ordering from them since I'm in the US. The issue isn't with absorbency in this case, it's perfect--? it just isn't as dark as previous prints with other inks and the same media.? ?The ecotank series is pretty cool, no idea how long it's been out, but I've had the 1430 for about 7 years.
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Keep in mind that what looks opaque to your eye doesn't matter. What matters is that it blocks the wavelengths that affect the coating.?
Many inkjet inks have added UV blockers to slow fading. Typically the photo colors, light cyan and light magenta, are the most fade prone and so are the ones with UV blockers added. I recall reading about tests, but I am unable to find the website. They tested many different shades of colors and found, on their particular printer with the particular OEM inks, a green shade blocked UV the best.
Of course, you can figure out an aftermarket ink that blocks the best and just fill all the tanks with that color. Same as some have done with direct inkjet printing.
--
Steven Greenfield AE7HD
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Someone here, back when it was on Yahoogroups, would fill in laser toner transparencies by just coloring over the whole thing with a black dry erase marker.? Then just wipe it off with the eraser. The marker sticks to the toner, but wipes right off of the Mylar film.
Of course, this won't work with inkjet transparencies as it will soak into the inkjet receptive coating.
http://techref.massmind.org/techref/pcb/etch/photoresists.htm
--
Steven Greenfield AE7HD
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Received from Steven Greenfield AE7HD via groups.io at 5/1/2021 15:24 UTC: Keep in mind that what looks opaque to your eye doesn't matter. What matters is that it blocks the wavelengths that affect the coating.
Many inkjet inks have added UV blockers to slow fading. Typically the photo colors, light cyan and light magenta, are the most fade prone and so are the ones with UV blockers added. I recall reading about tests, but I am unable to find the website. They tested many different shades of colors and found, on their particular printer with the particular OEM inks, a green shade blocked UV the best. If the printer permits, you might try printing the mask using all colors combined to generate black instead of using black by itself. 73 de Jim, KB3PU
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Nick Kennedy
Leon
Bertho
F1CHF
Steven Greenfield AE7HD