Keyboard Shortcuts
ctrl + shift + ? :
Show all keyboard shortcuts
ctrl + g :
Navigate to a group
ctrl + shift + f :
Find
ctrl + / :
Quick actions
esc to dismiss
Likes
Search
[hammond_zone] B4-Reverb-Hammonds future
|
Ron Newman
"Weak at best". Ok, but Bob, I suppose you listen to the your XB-2 through a
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
good speaker? What speaker did you listen to the B4 through? And the B4 has no integral reverb so you have to add that somehow. I've got a Midiman soundcard that I put it through but that doesn't give real time reverb. I then put it through a couple of Mackie HR824 studio speakers, but they crack up at a reasonable volume, but up to that the sound is good, but to get reverb I put the B4 throught a Peavey KB60 speaker with spring reverb. That sort of does the job. I mean listen to Jimmy Smith's Organ Grinder Swing, that's got lots of reverb on it. I suppose it was put on 'post production'? Or do you think it was created real? So Jimmy could hear it when he played? I wonder whether there is way to get real time reverb through SoundBlaster Live. I mean so you can hear it when you play. Ron. ----- Original Message -----
From: <zakemo@...> To: <hammond_zone@...> Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 5:03 AM Subject: Re: [hammond_zone] Hammonds future I think the B4 sounds weak at best! I had a Farfisa that had more balls. Iis the XB-2 (which I use for small gigs) and even that can readily beidentified as a clone. If anyone takes exception to my opinion, sound off, I can takean old hippie fart. |
|
Jimmy Lange
Hey Hammond-lovers,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
You touched on a real interesting point concerning reverb and hearing it while you play. I find reverb and a little touch of delay to be totally inspiring to my performance especially on solos...it just makes you use the expression pedal with so much more punch and emotion. I can't speak for Jimmy Smith, but it has been my experience that most studios send you a dry mix as the tracks are recorded that way with the intent of all " sweetening " to come in the final mix-down. It is commonly held belief that dry tracks provide the most accurate baseline for analysis of track content. I'm not entirely sure I agree with that, but that's how it is in most pro studios, at least in my experience. As for me, I ALWAYS have a touch of verb applied in my monitor/phones when I track here at home. And my live rig has stereo effects ( thru a custom 2500 watt system ) and is glorious to sit in front of and play! The Leslie 122 is mic'd top & bottom and then of course effects come after. It really helps me do what I feel is my best work within my ability....it's a HUGE fat sound, that's for sure! Happy Hammonding! Jimmy Ron Newman wrote: "Weak at best". Ok, but Bob, I suppose you listen to the your XB-2 through a |
|
Hello Jimmy!
We have added a tube driven spring reverb to Elisabeth???s C3. Although we have modern and vintage reverb machines in the studio (EMT gold foil plate) it is the swirl of the reverb tail thru the leslie 147 that makes things interesting. It is a unit that could easily be installed via a tube socket plug in. We love it. But as far as studio is concerned - we give every artist the desired amount of reverb during monitoring as it really affects the mood and hence the performance. To hear the C3 with the reverb you can play the following song that is currently nr. 11 in the mp3 Blues Rock Charts. We are very successful on that site with over 20 top - 40 positions in various genres from 2 to 38 All our tracks can (still) be played and downloaded for free from and 2 Blue Star Cds are available from that site as well Most every track has the C3 on it, although sometimes in a subtle way that is not cecognized immediately (yes, we use more registrations than 888000000) A track that features the hammond is Sarah???s Prayer from the gospel charts Finally a big thank you to hammond-zone member Jeff Dairiki for his kind help with our little noise problem. Thank you Jeff!! and love to all of you - keep that rotor spinning!! Peter Blue & Elisabeth Star aka Blue Star P.S - as for the tone vs clone battle: We developed from Roland D 110 with organ sounds to Korg cx3, dynacord leslie simulator, Hammond L 100, Allsound Leslie, Hammond C3 and finaly Leslie 147. At each step of our development we believed we now had the sound nailed. Not true until we got the c3 with leslie 147 in 1993. Didn???t change anything since. Puts a big grin on my (guitarists ) face each time Elisabeth plays it. But we are far from being fanatic. Would love to have that sound in a mobile package. |
|
Jimmy Lange
Hey Blue Star,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Right on....that's the way to do it! Whereabouts are you folks located? Anywhere near Colorado? Keep it spinnin' Jimmy Peter Blue & Elisabeth Star aka Blue Star wrote: Hello Jimmy! |
|
We live in a small place 30 km north of munich, Germany!
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Best of luck; P. Hey Blue Star, |
|
Ron Newman
Jeez, 2,500 watts!
But that aside. Yeah, we play because we want to hear what we play, reverb and all, and the audience gives us an excuse to do that. Something to work to. Same when recording. You got to hear what you're playing, reverb and all, otherwise you can't do it the same. So, that question still outstands, did Jimmy hear that big reverb when he recorded Organ Grinder? Or did he imagine it and then they put it on after? I ALWAYS have a touch of verbYou got some kind of phones that give you reverb? It is commonlyNor do I, you got to hear it when you play. Ron. Hey Hammond-lovers,through a gotgood speaker? What speaker did you listen to the B4 through? timea Midiman soundcard that I put it through but that doesn't give real butreverb. I then put it through a couple of Mackie HR824 studio speakers, butthey crack up at a reasonable volume, but up to that the sound is good, itto get reverb I put the B4 throught a Peavey KB60 speaker with spring SoundBlasterwas created real? So Jimmy could hear it when he played? balls. ILive. I mean so you can hear it when you play. hearddon't mean to be a purist but lets get real. The closest thing I've takeisthe XB-2 (which I use for small gigs) and even that can readily beidentifiedas a clone. If anyone takes exception to my opinion, sound off, I can Bob,it. But lastly, a hammond clone is better than no hammond at all. anold hippie fart. Visit The Hammond Zone
|
|
Ron Newman
You gonna tell me what a Leslie 147 is?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Ron ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jimmy Lange" <jlange@...> To: <hammond_zone@...> Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [hammond_zone] B4-Reverb-Hammonds future Hey Blue Star,we plate)have modern and vintage reverb machines in the studio (EMT gold foil socketit is the swirl of the reverb tail thru the leslie 147 that makes things amountplug in. We love it. followingof reverb during monitoring as it really affects the mood and hence the thatsong that is currently nr. 11 in the mp3 Blues Rock Charts. withis not cecognized immediately (yes, we use more registrations than Allsoundorgan sounds to Korg cx3, dynacord leslie simulator, Hammond L 100, Leslie, Hammond C3 and finaly Leslie 147.
|
|
The leslie 147 looks and sounds like the 147 but the preamp is different. It
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
has a unbalanced input and the slow fast relay is switched directly You gonna tell me what a Leslie 147 is? |
|
Ron Newman
Ok, so you got lots experience, and the right stuff, so what do you think
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
about the B4? Ron. ----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Blue & Elisabeth Star aka Blue Star" <blue@...> To: <hammond_zone@...> Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [hammond_zone] B4-Reverb-Hammonds future Hello Jimmy!plate) it is the swirl of the reverb tail thru the leslie 147 that makes thingssocket plug in. We love it.amount of reverb during monitoring as it really affects the mood and hence thewith organ sounds to Korg cx3, dynacord leslie simulator, Hammond L 100,Allsound Leslie, Hammond C3 and finaly Leslie 147. |
|
Hello Ron!
I have no experience with the B4 although we run a Mac in the studio and could run the B4 as VST plugin. But as long as I can see the C3 / leslie right through the window to our live room I???ll use that. But I???m shure that it is only a question of time when the virtual instruments get as good as their originals. At least soundwise. Then comes the handling in. You want two manuals, 2 sets of drawbars and preset keys. That???s the main problem to me with the virtual instruments. Take care, Peter |
|
Ron Newman
Yeah Peter. Take your good points.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
B4 does give all drawbars, and all manuals, but you need two keyboard controllers to work it, or, as I do, split one keyboard. But yeah, for you, what you can see through your window gives you itchy tips of your fingers. Ron. ----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Blue & Elisabeth Star aka Blue Star" <blue@...> To: <hammond_zone@...> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [hammond_zone] B4-Reverb-Hammonds future Hello Ron!that it is only a question of time when the virtual instruments get as good asto me with the virtual instruments. |
|
I use the NI B4 and think it is exceptionally good. At the price, it is nothing short of incredible.
Whether it is the cat's meow of the Hammond sound depends on the usage. For recording, it is fablous. If you have a tonewheel console and a 122 in a studio and know how to deal with issues like mic placement and phase cancellation, then that is still the ideal. But for anyone else, I would use the B4 over any of the clone options currently available. No contest in my opinion. The ideal solution is not as clear for live sound, at least at this time. A real Leslie is going to sound best in small spaces where the direct sound can be heard. A real rotating horn has such a complex sonic signature that it is very hard to duplicate it. Candidly, it is not as clear to me that a miked Leslie is going to be the best sound if the audience hears it indirectly, through a PA. I know that is heresy, but a mic on a Leslie is going to pick up a bunch of stage volume bleed and there are going to be phase issues that may impact the sound a lot. I would not be shocked if in an absolute blind A/B test, the B4 was actually prefered to a miked Leslie when run through a PA for live sound. The B4 will certainly beat out all the current crop of clones. That said, there are other issues in live sound that make other clones potentially better than the B4. They include latency (you can get it down to about 10 milliseconds under good conditions but it takes some work), the need for a well equiped laptop (and the risks of crashes and tendencies to walk away during breaks), and simple stage presence. Don't discount the latter comnpletely - I saw Billy Joel a few months back playing a beautiful 9 foot concert grand. Impressive, until I picked up by binocs and saw that he was actually playing a Kurzeil K2500 that was built into a hollow concert grand case. Not criticizing that decision - lots of reasons the Kurz provides better sound - but he would have looked a lot less impressive on stage sitting behind the Kurzweil without the hollow piano shell. I still hesitate to use a B4 live, but I know that some do it and if you can get it to work reliably, the sound is better than other clones. Just my $.02. Dan |
to navigate to use esc to dismiss