|
During my move from the city to an extreme rural area, I had a Henry 2K-4, along with a spare set of 3-500Zs, gifted to me.? I'm presuming the 2K-3 is a more modern looking 2K-3 and I have a '7300, so the thread combining the 2K-3 relay update and the 7300 "tail" is interesting.
?
I am the 3rd keeper of the 2K-4 and was told it was bought after demonstrating its functionality, but "something happened on the way home".? I've looked it over closely and the only things I've found were a wolf spider that jumped onto my hand (I said a couple of bad words), a NEMA 5-15P (regular 125VAC plug) on the end of the power cord, the amplifier internally strapped for 240VAC and what seems like a decade of dust covering everything.? The dust is now gone, as is the wolf spider.? So my hope is that someone had a Halloween special regular outlet hooked up for 240VAC, but everyone else has just been plugging it into a correctly wired 125VAC outlet..
?
I have not powered up the 2K-4 due to a lack of a 240VAC circuit in the shack. ?I have the stuff to add a 60A/240VAC sub-panel in the shack, but...other projects are taking priority.
?
Eric
WB6TIX
|
Quick note... the 2K-4 needs a neutral as well as ground
During my move from the city to an extreme rural area, I had a Henry 2K-4, along with a spare set of 3-500Zs, gifted to me.? I'm presuming the 2K-3 is a more modern looking 2K-3 and I have a '7300, so the thread combining the 2K-3 relay update and the 7300 "tail" is interesting.
?
I am the 3rd keeper of the 2K-4 and was told it was bought after demonstrating its functionality, but "something happened on the way home".? I've looked it over closely and the only things I've found were a wolf spider that jumped onto my hand (I said a couple of bad words), a NEMA 5-15P (regular 125VAC plug) on the end of the power cord, the amplifier internally strapped for 240VAC and what seems like a decade of dust covering everything.? The dust is now gone, as is the wolf spider.? So my hope is that someone had a Halloween special regular outlet hooked up for 240VAC, but everyone else has just been plugging it into a correctly wired 125VAC outlet..
?
I have not powered up the 2K-4 due to a lack of a 240VAC circuit in the shack.? I have the stuff to add a 60A/240VAC sub-panel in the shack, but...other projects are taking priority.
?
Eric
WB6TIX
|
The 5-15P is wired so that the grounding "pin" is the neutral and the two blades are "hot".? My thought for the corresponding receptacle? is (considering it's Halloween) "spooky".? :-)
As near as I can tell, the 2K-4 does the now deprecated "neutral is also used as grounding" method.? I need/want to figure out how to isolate grounding and neutral inside the amp.
Eric
On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 11:51?AM Mahlon Haunschild via <k4oq.radio= [email protected]> wrote: Quick note... the 2K-4 needs a neutral as well as ground
During my move from the city to an extreme rural area, I had a Henry 2K-4, along with a spare set of 3-500Zs, gifted to me.? I'm presuming the 2K-3 is a more modern looking 2K-3 and I have a '7300, so the thread combining the 2K-3 relay update and the 7300 "tail" is interesting.
?
I am the 3rd keeper of the 2K-4 and was told it was bought after demonstrating its functionality, but "something happened on the way home".? I've looked it over closely and the only things I've found were a wolf spider that jumped onto my hand (I said a couple of bad words), a NEMA 5-15P (regular 125VAC plug) on the end of the power cord, the amplifier internally strapped for 240VAC and what seems like a decade of dust covering everything.? The dust is now gone, as is the wolf spider.? So my hope is that someone had a Halloween special regular outlet hooked up for 240VAC, but everyone else has just been plugging it into a correctly wired 125VAC outlet..
?
I have not powered up the 2K-4 due to a lack of a 240VAC circuit in the shack.? I have the stuff to add a 60A/240VAC sub-panel in the shack, but...other projects are taking priority.
?
Eric
WB6TIX
|
I purchased a SB-220 at an estate sale that had a 120 volt plug but the jumpers in the amp were wired for 220. Hope the xyl did not plug the vacuum cleaner into that outlet :)
The 5-15P is wired so that the grounding "pin" is the neutral and the two blades are "hot".? My thought for the corresponding receptacle? is (considering it's Halloween) "spooky".? :-)
As near as I can tell, the 2K-4 does the now deprecated "neutral is also used as grounding" method.? I need/want to figure out how to isolate grounding and neutral inside the amp.
Eric
On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 11:51?AM Mahlon Haunschild via <k4oq.radio= [email protected]> wrote: Quick note... the 2K-4 needs a neutral as well as ground
During my move from the city to an extreme rural area, I had a Henry 2K-4, along with a spare set of 3-500Zs, gifted to me.? I'm presuming the 2K-3 is a more modern looking 2K-3 and I have a '7300, so the thread combining the 2K-3 relay update and the 7300 "tail" is interesting.
?
I am the 3rd keeper of the 2K-4 and was told it was bought after demonstrating its functionality, but "something happened on the way home".? I've looked it over closely and the only things I've found were a wolf spider that jumped onto my hand (I said a couple of bad words), a NEMA 5-15P (regular 125VAC plug) on the end of the power cord, the amplifier internally strapped for 240VAC and what seems like a decade of dust covering everything.? The dust is now gone, as is the wolf spider.? So my hope is that someone had a Halloween special regular outlet hooked up for 240VAC, but everyone else has just been plugging it into a correctly wired 125VAC outlet..
?
I have not powered up the 2K-4 due to a lack of a 240VAC circuit in the shack.? I have the stuff to add a 60A/240VAC sub-panel in the shack, but...other projects are taking priority.
?
Eric
WB6TIX
|
For this time of year, that outlet configuration, a 120V outlet wired for 220V is a "Halloween special"...as in scarey.? :-)
Eric
On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 12:52?PM mike repinski via <mikflathead= [email protected]> wrote:
I purchased a SB-220 at an estate sale that had a 120 volt plug but the jumpers in the amp were wired for 220. Hope the xyl did not plug the vacuum cleaner into that outlet :)
On Tuesday, October 29, 2024 at 03:29:29 PM EDT, Eric < vzwengr@...> wrote:
The 5-15P is wired so that the grounding "pin" is the neutral and the two blades are "hot".? My thought for the corresponding receptacle? is (considering it's Halloween) "spooky".? :-)
As near as I can tell, the 2K-4 does the now deprecated "neutral is also used as grounding" method.? I need/want to figure out how to isolate grounding and neutral inside the amp.
Eric
On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 11:51?AM Mahlon Haunschild via <k4oq.radio= [email protected]> wrote: Quick note... the 2K-4 needs a neutral as well as ground
During my move from the city to an extreme rural area, I had a Henry 2K-4, along with a spare set of 3-500Zs, gifted to me.? I'm presuming the 2K-3 is a more modern looking 2K-3 and I have a '7300, so the thread combining the 2K-3 relay update and the 7300 "tail" is interesting.
?
I am the 3rd keeper of the 2K-4 and was told it was bought after demonstrating its functionality, but "something happened on the way home".? I've looked it over closely and the only things I've found were a wolf spider that jumped onto my hand (I said a couple of bad words), a NEMA 5-15P (regular 125VAC plug) on the end of the power cord, the amplifier internally strapped for 240VAC and what seems like a decade of dust covering everything.? The dust is now gone, as is the wolf spider.? So my hope is that someone had a Halloween special regular outlet hooked up for 240VAC, but everyone else has just been plugging it into a correctly wired 125VAC outlet..
?
I have not powered up the 2K-4 due to a lack of a 240VAC circuit in the shack.? I have the stuff to add a 60A/240VAC sub-panel in the shack, but...other projects are taking priority.
?
Eric
WB6TIX
|
Years ago i purchased 3 Henry power supplies from a surplus dealer. I think 2 of them had 240 to 120 transformers to run the low voltage items instead of a neutral. Still have the transformers if anyone could use them.
For this time of year, that outlet configuration, a 120V outlet wired for 220V is a "Halloween special"...as in scarey.? :-)
Eric
On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 12:52?PM mike repinski via <mikflathead= [email protected]> wrote:
I purchased a SB-220 at an estate sale that had a 120 volt plug but the jumpers in the amp were wired for 220. Hope the xyl did not plug the vacuum cleaner into that outlet :)
On Tuesday, October 29, 2024 at 03:29:29 PM EDT, Eric < vzwengr@...> wrote:
The 5-15P is wired so that the grounding "pin" is the neutral and the two blades are "hot".? My thought for the corresponding receptacle? is (considering it's Halloween) "spooky".? :-)
As near as I can tell, the 2K-4 does the now deprecated "neutral is also used as grounding" method.? I need/want to figure out how to isolate grounding and neutral inside the amp.
Eric
On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 11:51?AM Mahlon Haunschild via <k4oq.radio= [email protected]> wrote: Quick note... the 2K-4 needs a neutral as well as ground
During my move from the city to an extreme rural area, I had a Henry 2K-4, along with a spare set of 3-500Zs, gifted to me.? I'm presuming the 2K-3 is a more modern looking 2K-3 and I have a '7300, so the thread combining the 2K-3 relay update and the 7300 "tail" is interesting.
?
I am the 3rd keeper of the 2K-4 and was told it was bought after demonstrating its functionality, but "something happened on the way home".? I've looked it over closely and the only things I've found were a wolf spider that jumped onto my hand (I said a couple of bad words), a NEMA 5-15P (regular 125VAC plug) on the end of the power cord, the amplifier internally strapped for 240VAC and what seems like a decade of dust covering everything.? The dust is now gone, as is the wolf spider.? So my hope is that someone had a Halloween special regular outlet hooked up for 240VAC, but everyone else has just been plugging it into a correctly wired 125VAC outlet..
?
I have not powered up the 2K-4 due to a lack of a 240VAC circuit in the shack.? I have the stuff to add a 60A/240VAC sub-panel in the shack, but...other projects are taking priority.
?
Eric
WB6TIX
|
How much for one of the transformers?? I'm in US zipcode 85937 but live out far enough from town that UPS and FedEx nearly always get lost.
Eric WB6TIX
On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 2:13?PM mike repinski via <mikflathead= [email protected]> wrote:
Years ago i purchased 3 Henry power supplies from a surplus dealer. I think 2 of them had 240 to 120 transformers to run the low voltage items instead of a neutral. Still have the transformers if anyone could use them.
On Tuesday, October 29, 2024 at 05:08:48 PM EDT, Eric < vzwengr@...> wrote:
For this time of year, that outlet configuration, a 120V outlet wired for 220V is a "Halloween special"...as in scarey.? :-)
Eric
On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 12:52?PM mike repinski via <mikflathead= [email protected]> wrote:
I purchased a SB-220 at an estate sale that had a 120 volt plug but the jumpers in the amp were wired for 220. Hope the xyl did not plug the vacuum cleaner into that outlet :)
On Tuesday, October 29, 2024 at 03:29:29 PM EDT, Eric < vzwengr@...> wrote:
The 5-15P is wired so that the grounding "pin" is the neutral and the two blades are "hot".? My thought for the corresponding receptacle? is (considering it's Halloween) "spooky".? :-)
As near as I can tell, the 2K-4 does the now deprecated "neutral is also used as grounding" method.? I need/want to figure out how to isolate grounding and neutral inside the amp.
Eric
On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 11:51?AM Mahlon Haunschild via <k4oq.radio= [email protected]> wrote: Quick note... the 2K-4 needs a neutral as well as ground
During my move from the city to an extreme rural area, I had a Henry 2K-4, along with a spare set of 3-500Zs, gifted to me.? I'm presuming the 2K-3 is a more modern looking 2K-3 and I have a '7300, so the thread combining the 2K-3 relay update and the 7300 "tail" is interesting.
?
I am the 3rd keeper of the 2K-4 and was told it was bought after demonstrating its functionality, but "something happened on the way home".? I've looked it over closely and the only things I've found were a wolf spider that jumped onto my hand (I said a couple of bad words), a NEMA 5-15P (regular 125VAC plug) on the end of the power cord, the amplifier internally strapped for 240VAC and what seems like a decade of dust covering everything.? The dust is now gone, as is the wolf spider.? So my hope is that someone had a Halloween special regular outlet hooked up for 240VAC, but everyone else has just been plugging it into a correctly wired 125VAC outlet..
?
I have not powered up the 2K-4 due to a lack of a 240VAC circuit in the shack.? I have the stuff to add a 60A/240VAC sub-panel in the shack, but...other projects are taking priority.
?
Eric
WB6TIX
|
OK, I'm writing from a keyboard now instead of a smart phone.
First of all, that was a very nice gift indeed.
Now, I did exactly this power conversion with a 2K-4 many years ago.? As far as I can recall, everything I needed to connect to for 117/234 VAC operation (hot-hot-neutral) was already on the power supply terminal board.? I connected the power cord's green ground wire directly to the chassis using a terminal board mounting screw,?I believe.? Used a 12 AWG 4 cond power cord (class 2 insulation though, but it was At Hand) plus a Hubble L14-20 twist lock plug to keep that horse of a cord from coming out of the receptacle in the wall.
Keep in mind that the plate transformer is dual-primary 117/234 VAC, the control transformer is 234 VAC single primary (using the plate transformer as an autotransformer when using 117 VAC supply, I believe), and the blower is 117 VAC.??
A couple of other points:
-? You will need a T/R relay buffer for your Icom transceivers, but I'm sure that you already know that.
-? There is plenty of room on the back of the mercury relay bracket for unobtrusively mounting a step-start circuit.
Feel free to write off-list if you need more help.
Best regards
Mahlon - N4ZK
The 5-15P is wired so that the grounding "pin" is the neutral and the two blades are "hot".? My thought for the corresponding receptacle? is (considering it's Halloween) "spooky".? :-)
As near as I can tell, the 2K-4 does the now deprecated "neutral is also used as grounding" method.? I need/want to figure out how to isolate grounding and neutral inside the amp.
Eric
On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 11:51?AM Mahlon Haunschild via <k4oq.radio= [email protected]> wrote: Quick note... the 2K-4 needs a neutral as well as ground
During my move from the city to an extreme rural area, I had a Henry 2K-4, along with a spare set of 3-500Zs, gifted to me.? I'm presuming the 2K-3 is a more modern looking 2K-3 and I have a '7300, so the thread combining the 2K-3 relay update and the 7300 "tail" is interesting.
?
I am the 3rd keeper of the 2K-4 and was told it was bought after demonstrating its functionality, but "something happened on the way home".? I've looked it over closely and the only things I've found were a wolf spider that jumped onto my hand (I said a couple of bad words), a NEMA 5-15P (regular 125VAC plug) on the end of the power cord, the amplifier internally strapped for 240VAC and what seems like a decade of dust covering everything.? The dust is now gone, as is the wolf spider.? So my hope is that someone had a Halloween special regular outlet hooked up for 240VAC, but everyone else has just been plugging it into a correctly wired 125VAC outlet..
?
I have not powered up the 2K-4 due to a lack of a 240VAC circuit in the shack.? I have the stuff to add a 60A/240VAC sub-panel in the shack, but...other projects are taking priority.
?
Eric
WB6TIX
|
Hi Eric If you grounded the neutral over here, none of your RCD/ELCB would work ! To say nothing of illegality… Cheers, John VK6JX
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 30 Oct 2024, at 3:29?AM, Eric via groups.io <vzwengr@...> wrote:
? The 5-15P is wired so that the grounding "pin" is the neutral and the two blades are "hot".? My thought for the corresponding receptacle? is (considering it's Halloween) "spooky".? :-)
As near as I can tell, the 2K-4 does the now deprecated "neutral is also used as grounding" method.? I need/want to figure out how to isolate grounding and neutral inside the amp.
Eric
On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 11:51?AM Mahlon Haunschild via <k4oq.radio= [email protected]> wrote: Quick note... the 2K-4 needs a neutral as well as ground
During my move from the city to an extreme rural area, I had a Henry 2K-4, along with a spare set of 3-500Zs, gifted to me.? I'm presuming the 2K-3 is a more modern looking 2K-3 and I have a '7300, so the thread combining the 2K-3 relay update and the 7300 "tail" is interesting.
?
I am the 3rd keeper of the 2K-4 and was told it was bought after demonstrating its functionality, but "something happened on the way home".? I've looked it over closely and the only things I've found were a wolf spider that jumped onto my hand (I said a couple of bad words), a NEMA 5-15P (regular 125VAC plug) on the end of the power cord, the amplifier internally strapped for 240VAC and what seems like a decade of dust covering everything.? The dust is now gone, as is the wolf spider.? So my hope is that someone had a Halloween special regular outlet hooked up for 240VAC, but everyone else has just been plugging it into a correctly wired 125VAC outlet..
?
I have not powered up the 2K-4 due to a lack of a 240VAC circuit in the shack.? I have the stuff to add a 60A/240VAC sub-panel in the shack, but...other projects are taking priority.
?
Eric
WB6TIX
|
$25.00 plus shipping at 20lbs. May fit in a medium flat rate box for $20.00? Mike
How much for one of the transformers?? I'm in US zipcode 85937 but live out far enough from town that UPS and FedEx nearly always get lost.
Eric WB6TIX
On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 2:13?PM mike repinski via <mikflathead= [email protected]> wrote:
Years ago i purchased 3 Henry power supplies from a surplus dealer. I think 2 of them had 240 to 120 transformers to run the low voltage items instead of a neutral. Still have the transformers if anyone could use them.
On Tuesday, October 29, 2024 at 05:08:48 PM EDT, Eric < vzwengr@...> wrote:
For this time of year, that outlet configuration, a 120V outlet wired for 220V is a "Halloween special"...as in scarey.? :-)
Eric
On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 12:52?PM mike repinski via <mikflathead= [email protected]> wrote:
I purchased a SB-220 at an estate sale that had a 120 volt plug but the jumpers in the amp were wired for 220. Hope the xyl did not plug the vacuum cleaner into that outlet :)
On Tuesday, October 29, 2024 at 03:29:29 PM EDT, Eric < vzwengr@...> wrote:
The 5-15P is wired so that the grounding "pin" is the neutral and the two blades are "hot".? My thought for the corresponding receptacle? is (considering it's Halloween) "spooky".? :-)
As near as I can tell, the 2K-4 does the now deprecated "neutral is also used as grounding" method.? I need/want to figure out how to isolate grounding and neutral inside the amp.
Eric
On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 11:51?AM Mahlon Haunschild via <k4oq.radio= [email protected]> wrote: Quick note... the 2K-4 needs a neutral as well as ground
During my move from the city to an extreme rural area, I had a Henry 2K-4, along with a spare set of 3-500Zs, gifted to me.? I'm presuming the 2K-3 is a more modern looking 2K-3 and I have a '7300, so the thread combining the 2K-3 relay update and the 7300 "tail" is interesting.
?
I am the 3rd keeper of the 2K-4 and was told it was bought after demonstrating its functionality, but "something happened on the way home".? I've looked it over closely and the only things I've found were a wolf spider that jumped onto my hand (I said a couple of bad words), a NEMA 5-15P (regular 125VAC plug) on the end of the power cord, the amplifier internally strapped for 240VAC and what seems like a decade of dust covering everything.? The dust is now gone, as is the wolf spider.? So my hope is that someone had a Halloween special regular outlet hooked up for 240VAC, but everyone else has just been plugging it into a correctly wired 125VAC outlet..
?
I have not powered up the 2K-4 due to a lack of a 240VAC circuit in the shack.? I have the stuff to add a 60A/240VAC sub-panel in the shack, but...other projects are taking priority.
?
Eric
WB6TIX
|
Medium flat rate box is doable.? Let me know.? ?Mike
How much for one of the transformers?? I'm in US zipcode 85937 but live out far enough from town that UPS and FedEx nearly always get lost.
Eric WB6TIX
On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 2:13?PM mike repinski via <mikflathead= [email protected]> wrote:
Years ago i purchased 3 Henry power supplies from a surplus dealer. I think 2 of them had 240 to 120 transformers to run the low voltage items instead of a neutral. Still have the transformers if anyone could use them.
On Tuesday, October 29, 2024 at 05:08:48 PM EDT, Eric < vzwengr@...> wrote:
For this time of year, that outlet configuration, a 120V outlet wired for 220V is a "Halloween special"...as in scarey.? :-)
Eric
On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 12:52?PM mike repinski via <mikflathead= [email protected]> wrote:
I purchased a SB-220 at an estate sale that had a 120 volt plug but the jumpers in the amp were wired for 220. Hope the xyl did not plug the vacuum cleaner into that outlet :)
On Tuesday, October 29, 2024 at 03:29:29 PM EDT, Eric < vzwengr@...> wrote:
The 5-15P is wired so that the grounding "pin" is the neutral and the two blades are "hot".? My thought for the corresponding receptacle? is (considering it's Halloween) "spooky".? :-)
As near as I can tell, the 2K-4 does the now deprecated "neutral is also used as grounding" method.? I need/want to figure out how to isolate grounding and neutral inside the amp.
Eric
On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 11:51?AM Mahlon Haunschild via <k4oq.radio= [email protected]> wrote: Quick note... the 2K-4 needs a neutral as well as ground
During my move from the city to an extreme rural area, I had a Henry 2K-4, along with a spare set of 3-500Zs, gifted to me.? I'm presuming the 2K-3 is a more modern looking 2K-3 and I have a '7300, so the thread combining the 2K-3 relay update and the 7300 "tail" is interesting.
?
I am the 3rd keeper of the 2K-4 and was told it was bought after demonstrating its functionality, but "something happened on the way home".? I've looked it over closely and the only things I've found were a wolf spider that jumped onto my hand (I said a couple of bad words), a NEMA 5-15P (regular 125VAC plug) on the end of the power cord, the amplifier internally strapped for 240VAC and what seems like a decade of dust covering everything.? The dust is now gone, as is the wolf spider.? So my hope is that someone had a Halloween special regular outlet hooked up for 240VAC, but everyone else has just been plugging it into a correctly wired 125VAC outlet..
?
I have not powered up the 2K-4 due to a lack of a 240VAC circuit in the shack.? I have the stuff to add a 60A/240VAC sub-panel in the shack, but...other projects are taking priority.
?
Eric
WB6TIX
|
The electrical standards here have evolved over the years, but older installations do not need to be upgraded to comply with the newer standards unless there is a significant amount of work done to the old system. ? How the word significant is defined is subject to a lot of controversy. :-)
?
I could use the "it was compliant when it was constructed" argument and use the neutral as the grounding means with no GFCI/RCD system on that circuit? But, especially since it is so easy to bring it into compliance with modern standards....why not do so.... :-)
?
?
|
By fixing I guess you would need to bring a ground to each receptacle and switch? Not so easy to do.
The electrical standards here have evolved over the years, but older installations do not need to be upgraded to comply with the newer standards unless there is a significant amount of work done to the old system. ? How the word significant is defined is subject to a lot of controversy. :-)
?
I could use the "it was compliant when it was constructed" argument and use the neutral as the grounding means with no GFCI/RCD system on that circuit? But, especially since it is so easy to bring it into compliance with modern standards....why not do so.... :-)
?
?
|
Isolating the neutral and grounding systems within the amplifier shouldn't be too hard, and I haven't installed the 120/240VAC circuit in the garage, so I have no excuse.? :-)
?
Eric
?
|
Hello Eric,
?
Sorry, I'm a little late to the party on this one, however I will inject my 2-cents worth...
?
I have a few Henry amp's (four, to be exact) as well as several other brands & models (i like amp's!).? I'm also a commercial/industrial electrician (40+ years, retired) but continue to do a lot of residential & small commercial work.
?
Anyway, a few things to note here, regarding the supply power issues:
?
For whatever reason, Henry built a LOT of amplifiers that "required" a neutral conductor in addition to the two "hot" legs (220-240v). Also, since 3-wire cord was (and is) very common, Henry decided to use it? for 240 operation (instead of a proper 4-wire cord, red/black/white/green), and utilizing the "green" conductor as a neutral.? This was a very poor design choice IMHO (and somewhat illegal by modern standards), but there it is... Thank you Ted Henry. Unfortunately, this prevents you from being able to properly "ground" the amplifier's case back to your house's utility grounding point (i.e. the equipment ground). This could allow the amp's metal case to become energized in event of an internal fault, and cause a shock or electrocution.
?
However, this can be easily remedied. No neutral is "required" to run your amp (as explained below)... only "straight" 240-volts (with a proper equipment ground), and with utilizing the proper plug on the amp's cord: either a NEMA 6-15P or a 6-20P plug, with the matching receptacle (NEMA 6-15R or 6-20R), depending upon whether you want to supply 15 or 20 amps to the amp. BTW: a 15 plug will plug into a 20-amp receptacle, but a 20-amp plug will NOT plug into a 15-amp recep.
?
Now, let me stop for a moment to provide a quick explanation of U.S. single-phase power (In case you're not aware):? In the standard US power scheme, there are two "hot" conductors, and a"neutral" conductor. This "neutral" conductor (typically the white or gray wire) is derived by center-tapping the 240 transformer winding, and then bonding that to ground (literally).? This is why it's commonly called the "grounded" conductor, because it is literally attached (bonded) to the earth at your service entrance or meter panel (and also inside the utility co's. transformer).? This "grounded" neutral conductor should not be confused with the "grounding" conductor (usually a green or bare wire). This "grounding" conductor - also commonly referred to as the "equipment ground" or "safety" ground (or just "ground") is also connected (bonded) to the neutral/earth connection inside your service entrance panel.? It is there only to carry any ground-fault currents back to the load center/panel, so a circuit breaker can trip. From that point out, the NEUTRAL and the GROUND conductors, are always separate conductors. They are NEVER (or shouldn't be) tied together anywhere else in the system.
?
The neutral (white/grounded) conductor IS the current-carrying conductor (along with the "hot" conductor(s)), and is what gives us 120-volts supply from the 240-volt system. Up on the utility pole, the 240v transformer's secondary winding is center-tapped, and that center-tap is grounded (again, literally to ground), and becomes the neutral conductor.? This is why you can get shocked by the hot conductors in a system, if you are grounded. In any case, those two "hots" and the neutral, provide your house with both 120 & 240 volts of power.
?
Okay, now back to your Henry amp: Your Henry amplifier requires 240v to supply the HV transformer primary. However, the primary winding in your amp is actually two 120v windings in series, and thus, you have a center-tap point on that primary winding.? Inside the amp, it is the cooling blower and 12-volt relay transformer that require 120v, and thus why Henry wanted a neutral supply wire.? But...
?
If you refer to the 2K-4 schematic for the power supply (first screenshot below):
The AC input black wire (we'll call this "L1") goes to TB201, terminal 7, then out, through CB1 (the main power switch & breaker), through a protective relay (RY201), then into one end of the HV transformer (T201), term. #1.? Likewise, the white wire (we'll call this "L2") goes to TB201, term. 11, then follows a similar path as L1, and then ends up on the other end of the HV transformer, term. #4.? The remaining two transformer connections (#2 and #3) form the center-tap, and are connected back to TB201, terminals 8 & 9, which are tied together (with no other connections). Therefore, you have two 120v windings in series (1-2, and 3-4), which require a 240v input. Therefore, If you supply the transformer with 240v on terminals 1 and 4, you will have 120v on term's 2 and 3, (relative/referenced to either 1 or 4).
?
The remaining AC input wire - the "green" - which is connected to TB201, term. 10, is what Henry used for the "neutral" supply conductor for the amp, to supply the 120v needed for the blower and 12-volt relay transformer (T101). By the way, Henry also placed a fuse (F2) in that internal neutral supply line (this was not a good idea; you should never "open" a neutral - but there it is...).? This was Henry's design.
?
?
HOWEVER, connection of an AC neutral to terminal 10, is NOT required for the amp to function correctly. In other words: a neutral AC-input supply wire IS NOT NEEDED TO RUN THE AMP.? By simply adding one jumper to TB201, you can utilize the HV transformer's center-tap to provide the required 120v.
?
With reference to the 2K-4 schematic below (I removed some of the clutter for clarity):? By jumpering between terminals 8, 9, and 10 (on TB201) - and with no other external connections (i.e., no outside wire coming in) - the blower and relay transformer (T101) will get their needed 120v from the HV transformer's center tap (yes, just like a utility transformer).? Then, you can utilize the "green" cord conductor as the proper equipment grounding conductor.? It can be connected directly to the case of the amp.
?
?
I have utilized this very modification (if you can call it that) to 3 of my Henry amplifiers, that previously "required" a neutral from the AC supply.? They have all been in service for several years without any issues.? It's simple, and it works.? In fact, other amplifiers (not to mention, lots of industrial and commercial equipment) utilize this exact arrangement, to derive 120v (from 240v) for internal use. It is ubiquitous...
?
As far as your 240v receptacle: If you are planning on running a dedicated 240v line to your shack, and unless the run of wire is very long, you can use regular 12-2 NM cable (aka, "Romex"), with black/white/bare conductors, and a suitable 20A, 2-pole circuit breaker in your panel. The white wire should be re-identified - at each end - with a [preferably] a red mark (like tape) to identify it as a hot conductor. Obviously, the bare conductor is the equipment ground (not a neutral!). If the wire-run is long (more than say, 50-70 feet) I would up-size the conductors to #10awg (10-2 "Romex"), but still only supply it with a 20-amp breaker. The larger wire size will help reduce any loaded voltage drop.
?
Inside your shack, you can install the appropriate receptacle box (enclosure) and 240v receptacle. I would use the 20-amp version (NEMA 6-20R) since it will accept both the 15 or 20 amp plugs.? These single receptacles are readily available from stores like Lowe's or HomeDepot, as are the plugs. If you wanted a duplex-type receptacle (similar to a standard 120v type), Leviton makes them, and they are available through Amazon (HERE: ).?
?
Hope this is helpful... good luck!
?
--
73,
~Alan
|
On Wed, Oct 30, 2024 at 04:37 PM, Eric wrote:
Isolating the neutral and grounding systems within the amplifier shouldn't be too hard, and I haven't installed the 120/240VAC circuit in the garage, so I have no excuse.? :-)
Eric
?
There is nothing to "isolate", with respect to the neutral and grounding systems, within the amplifier. They are not inter-connected in any way; the amp is NOT grounded by the green wire.? The "green" conductor is ONLY utilized (inside the amp) as neutral conductor, to provide 120v forthe blower and relay transformer... It has no other purpose, and not "grounded" internally.
?
And therein lies the problem! That's the confusion of using "green" as a power conductor. And in this case, a neutral, which is - by definition - the "grounded" conductor, but not the "grounding" conductor. It is NOT "grounding" (i.e., bonded to the case) inside the amplifier.
?
See my previous long post... :-)
?
--
73,
~Alan
|
I was considering the modification you suggested.......and also wondering about the design choices made by Henry.?
?
....retired EE that paid for tuition as an electrician.... It was a powerful combination.? :-)
?
?
Eric
?
?
?
?
|
On Mon, Nov 4, 2024 at 12:09 PM, Eric wrote:
I was considering the modification you suggested.......and also wondering about the design choices made by Henry.?
....retired EE that paid for tuition as an electrician.... It was a powerful combination.? :-)
Eric
?
Wow... nice!
?
Well then, sorry for the long dissertation on power systems... :-/
?
But yes, the jumper trick works perfectly. Super-easy with no permanent mod's to the amp. And, you can properly ground the case.
?
Not sure why Henry elected to do it the way they did... but they did.? However, the "fix" is so simple.
?
?
--
73,
~Alan
|
Alan, That dual 240v receptacle you have pictured is exactly what I have in my shack. I looked for one locally with no luck. Like you said, Amazon had it.
You mentioned never open the neutral. Earlier talking about a shock by touching the stove and refrigerator, I mentioned it could possibly be an open neutral. Do you agree?
Bob W4JFA?
[Edited Message Follows]
Hello Eric,
?
Sorry, I'm a little late to the party on this one, however I will inject my 2-cents worth...
?
I have a few Henry amp's (four, to be exact) as well as several other brands & models (i like amp's!).? I'm also a commercial/industrial electrician (40+ years, retired) but continue to do a lot of residential & small commercial work.
?
Anyway, a few things to note here, regarding the supply power issues:
?
For whatever reason, Henry built a LOT of amplifiers that "required" a neutral conductor in addition to the two "hot" legs (220-240v). Also, since 3-wire cord was (and is) very common, Henry decided to use it? for 240 operation (instead of a proper 4-wire cord, red/black/white/green), and utilizing the "green" conductor as a neutral.? This was a very poor design choice IMHO (and somewhat illegal by modern standards), but there it is... Thank you Ted Henry. Unfortunately, this prevents you from being able to properly "ground" the amplifier's case back to your house's utility grounding point (i.e. the equipment ground). This could allow the amp's metal case to become energized in event of an internal fault, and cause a shock or electrocution.
?
However, this can be easily remedied. No neutral is "required" to run your amp (as explained below)... only "straight" 240-volts (with a proper equipment ground), and with utilizing the proper plug on the amp's cord: either a NEMA 6-15P or a 6-20P plug, with the matching receptacle (NEMA 6-15R or 6-20R), depending upon whether you want to supply 15 or 20 amps to the amp. BTW: a 15 plug will plug into a 20-amp receptacle, but a 20-amp plug will NOT plug into a 15-amp recep.
?
Now, let me stop for a moment to provide a quick explanation of U.S. single-phase power (In case you're not aware):? In the standard US power scheme, there are two "hot" conductors, and a"neutral" conductor. This "neutral" conductor (typically the white or gray wire) is derived by center-tapping the 240 transformer winding, and then bonding that to ground (literally).? This is why it's commonly called the "grounded" conductor, because it is literally attached (bonded) to the earth at your service entrance or meter panel (and also inside the utility co's. transformer).? This "grounded" neutral conductor should not be confused with the "grounding" conductor (usually a green or bare wire). This "grounding" conductor - also commonly referred to as the "equipment ground" or "safety" ground (or just "ground") is also connected (bonded) to the neutral/earth connection inside your service entrance panel.? It is there only to carry any ground-fault currents back to the load center/panel, so a circuit breaker can trip. From that point out, the NEUTRAL and the GROUND conductors, are always separate conductors. They are NEVER (or shouldn't be) tied together anywhere else in the system.
?
The neutral (white/grounded) conductor IS the current-carrying conductor (along with the "hot" conductor(s)), and is what gives us 120-volts supply from the 240-volt system. Up on the utility pole, the 240v transformer's secondary winding is center-tapped, and that center-tap is grounded (again, literally to ground), and becomes the neutral conductor.? This is why you can get shocked by the hot conductors in a system, if you are grounded. In any case, those two "hots" and the neutral, provide your house with both 120 & 240 volts of power.
?
Okay, now back to your Henry amp: Your Henry amplifier requires 240v to supply the HV transformer primary. However, the primary winding in your amp is actually two 120v windings in series, and thus, you have a center-tap point on that primary winding.? Inside the amp, it is the cooling blower and 12-volt relay transformer that require 120v, and thus why Henry wanted a neutral supply wire.? But...
?
If you refer to the 2K-4 schematic for the power supply (first screenshot below):
The AC input black wire (we'll call this "L1") goes to TB201, terminal 7, then out, through CB1 (the main power switch & breaker), through a protective relay (RY201), then into one end of the HV transformer (T201), term. #1.? Likewise, the white wire (we'll call this "L2") goes to TB201, term. 11, then follows a similar path as L1, and then ends up on the other end of the HV transformer, term. #4.? The remaining two transformer connections (#2 and #3) form the center-tap, and are connected back to TB201, terminals 8 & 9, which are tied together (with no other connections). Therefore, you have two 120v windings in series (1-2, and 3-4), which require a 240v input. Therefore, If you supply the transformer with 240v on terminals 1 and 4, you will have 120v on term's 2 and 3, (relative/referenced to either 1 or 4).
?
The remaining AC input wire - the "green" - which is connected to TB201, term. 10, is what Henry used for the "neutral" supply conductor for the amp, to supply the 120v needed for the blower and 12-volt relay transformer (T101). By the way, Henry also placed a fuse (F2) in that internal neutral supply line (this was not a good idea; you should never "open" a neutral - but there it is...).? This was Henry's design.
?
?
HOWEVER, connection of an AC neutral to terminal 10, is NOT required for the amp to function correctly. In other words: a neutral AC-input supply wire IS NOT NEEDED TO RUN THE AMP.? By simply adding one jumper to TB201, you can utilize the HV transformer's center-tap to provide the required 120v.
?
With reference to the 2K-4 schematic below (I removed some of the clutter for clarity):? By jumpering between terminals 8, 9, and 10 (on TB201) - and with no other external connections (i.e., no outside wire coming in) - the blower and relay transformer (T101) will get their needed 120v from the HV transformer's center tap (yes, just like a utility transformer).? Then, you can utilize the "green" cord conductor as the proper equipment grounding conductor.? It can be connected directly to the case of the amp.
?
?
I have utilized this very modification (if you can call it that) to 3 of my Henry amplifiers, that previously "required" a neutral from the AC supply.? They have all been in service for several years without any issues.? It's simple, and it works.? In fact, other amplifiers (not to mention, lots of industrial and commercial equipment) utilize this exact arrangement, to derive 120v (from 240v) for internal use. It is ubiquitous...
?
As far as your 240v receptacle: If you are planning on running a dedicated 240v line to your shack, and unless the run of wire is very long, you can use regular 12-2 NM cable (aka, "Romex"), with black/white/bare conductors, and a suitable 20A, 2-pole circuit breaker in your panel. The white wire should be re-identified - at each end - with a [preferably] a red mark (like tape) to identify it as a hot conductor. Obviously, the bare conductor is the equipment ground (not a neutral!). If the wire-run is long (more than say, 50-70 feet) I would up-size the conductors to #10awg (10-2 "Romex"), but still only supply it with a 20-amp breaker. The larger wire size will help reduce any loaded voltage drop.
?
Inside your shack, you can install the appropriate receptacle box (enclosure) and 240v receptacle. I would use the 20-amp version (NEMA 6-20R) since it will accept both the 15 or 20 amp plugs.? These single receptacles are readily available from stores like Lowe's or HomeDepot, as are the plugs. If you wanted a duplex-type receptacle (similar to a standard 120v type), Leviton makes them, and they are available through Amazon (HERE: ).?
?
Hope this is helpful... good luck!
?
--
73,
~Alan
|
Alan, I have touted this modification on here for years now. ?I’ve explained as you have numerous times. ?Hopefully this finally sinks on. ?The folks at Henry May be good RF engineers but fell short on their electrician knowledge.
On Monday, November 4, 2024, 1:11 PM, Alan - W5ARM <W5ARM.mail@...> wrote: Hello Eric,
?
Sorry, I'm a little late to the party on this one, however I will inject my 2-cents worth...
?
I have a few Henry amp's (four, to be exact) as well as several other brands & models (i like amp's!).? I'm also a commercial/industrial electrician (40+ years, retired) but continue to do a lot of residential & small commercial work.
?
Anyway, a few things to note here, regarding the supply power issues:
?
For whatever reason, Henry built a LOT of amplifiers that "required" a neutral conductor in addition to the two "hot" legs (220-240v). Also, since 3-wire cord was (and is) very common, Henry decided to use it? for 240 operation (instead of a proper 4-wire cord, red/black/white/green), and utilizing the "green" conductor as a neutral.? This was a very poor design choice IMHO (and somewhat illegal by modern standards), but there it is... Thank you Ted Henry. Unfortunately, this prevents you from being able to properly "ground" the amplifier's case back to your house's utility grounding point (i.e. the equipment ground). This could allow the amp's metal case to become energized in event of an internal fault, and cause a shock or electrocution.
?
However, this can be easily remedied. No neutral is "required" to run your amp (as explained below)... only "straight" 240-volts (with a proper equipment ground), and with utilizing the proper plug on the amp's cord: either a NEMA 6-15P or a 6-20P plug, with the matching receptacle (NEMA 6-15R or 6-20R), depending upon whether you want to supply 15 or 20 amps to the amp. BTW: a 15 plug will plug into a 20-amp receptacle, but a 20-amp plug will NOT plug into a 15-amp recep.
?
Now, let me stop for a moment to provide a quick explanation of U.S. single-phase power (In case you're not aware):? In the standard US power scheme, there are two "hot" conductors, and a"neutral" conductor. This "neutral" conductor (typically the white or gray wire) is derived by center-tapping the 240 transformer winding, and then bonding that to ground (literally).? This is why it's commonly called the "grounded" conductor, because it is literally attached (bonded) to the earth at your service entrance or meter panel (and also inside the utility co's. transformer).? This "grounded" neutral conductor should not be confused with the "grounding" conductor (usually a green or bare wire). This "grounding" conductor - also commonly referred to as the "equipment ground" or "safety" ground (or just "ground") is also connected (bonded) to the neutral/earth connection inside your service entrance panel.? It is there only to carry any ground-fault currents back to the load center/panel, so a circuit breaker can trip. From that point out, the NEUTRAL and the GROUND conductors, are always separate conductors. They are NEVER (or shouldn't be) tied together anywhere else in the system.
?
The neutral (white/grounded) conductor IS the current-carrying conductor (along with the "hot" conductor(s)), and is what gives us 120-volts supply from the 240-volt system. Up on the utility pole, the 240v transformer's secondary winding is center-tapped, and that center-tap is grounded (again, literally to ground), and becomes the neutral conductor.? This is why you can get shocked by the hot conductors in a system, if you are grounded. In any case, those two "hots" and the neutral, provide your house with both 120 & 240 volts of power.
?
Okay, now back to your Henry amp: Your Henry amplifier requires 240v to supply the HV transformer primary. However, the primary winding in your amp is actually two 120v windings in series, and thus, you have a center-tap point on that primary winding.? Inside the amp, it is the cooling blower and 12-volt relay transformer that require 120v, and thus why Henry wanted a neutral supply wire.? But...
?
If you refer to the 2K-4 schematic for the power supply (first screenshot below):
The AC input black wire (we'll call this "L1") goes to TB201, terminal 7, then out, through CB1 (the main power switch & breaker), through a protective relay (RY201), then into one end of the HV transformer (T201), term. #1.? Likewise, the white wire (we'll call this "L2") goes to TB201, term. 11, then follows a similar path as L1, and then ends up on the other end of the HV transformer, term. #4.? The remaining two transformer connections (#2 and #3) form the center-tap, and are connected back to TB201, terminals 8 & 9, which are tied together (with no other connections). Therefore, you have two 120v windings in series (1-2, and 3-4), which require a 240v input. Therefore, If you supply the transformer with 240v on terminals 1 and 4, you will have 120v on term's 2 and 3, (relative/referenced to either 1 or 4).
?
The remaining AC input wire - the "green" - which is connected to TB201, term. 10, is what Henry used for the "neutral" supply conductor for the amp, to supply the 120v needed for the blower and 12-volt relay transformer (T101). By the way, Henry also placed a fuse (F2) in that internal neutral supply line (this was not a good idea; you should never "open" a neutral - but there it is...).? This was Henry's design.
?
?
HOWEVER, connection of an AC neutral to terminal 10, is NOT required for the amp to function correctly. In other words: a neutral AC-input supply wire IS NOT NEEDED TO RUN THE AMP.? By simply adding one jumper to TB201, you can utilize the HV transformer's center-tap to provide the required 120v.
?
With reference to the 2K-4 schematic below (I removed some of the clutter for clarity):? By jumpering between terminals 8, 9, and 10 (on TB201) - and with no other external connections (i.e., no outside wire coming in) - the blower and relay transformer (T101) will get their needed 120v from the HV transformer's center tap (yes, just like a utility transformer).? Then, you can utilize the "green" cord conductor as the proper equipment grounding conductor.? It can be connected directly to the case of the amp.
?
?
I have utilized this very modification (if you can call it that) to 3 of my Henry amplifiers, that previously "required" a neutral from the AC supply.? They have all been in service for several years without any issues.? It's simple, and it works.? In fact, other amplifiers (not to mention, lots of industrial and commercial equipment) utilize this exact arrangement, to derive 120v (from 240v) for internal use. It is ubiquitous...
?
As far as your 240v receptacle: If you are planning on running a dedicated 240v line to your shack, and unless the run of wire is very long, you can use regular 12-2 NM cable (aka, "Romex"), with black/white/bare conductors, and a suitable 20A, 2-pole circuit breaker in your panel. The white wire should be re-identified - at each end - with a [preferably] a red mark (like tape) to identify it as a hot conductor. Obviously, the bare conductor is the equipment ground (not a neutral!). If the wire-run is long (more than say, 50-70 feet) I would up-size the conductors to #10awg (10-2 "Romex"), but still only supply it with a 20-amp breaker. The larger wire size will help reduce any loaded voltage drop.
?
Inside your shack, you can install the appropriate receptacle box (enclosure) and 240v receptacle. I would use the 20-amp version (NEMA 6-20R) since it will accept both the 15 or 20 amp plugs.? These single receptacles are readily available from stores like Lowe's or HomeDepot, as are the plugs. If you wanted a duplex-type receptacle (similar to a standard 120v type), Leviton makes them, and they are available through Amazon (HERE: ).?
?
Hope this is helpful... good luck!
|
Alan - W5ARM
Bob