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Drake L-7
开云体育Dear Everett et al, ? There are those that believe a Pi-Wound, or even a Solenoid-Wound inductor is the Saving Grace of QRO amplifiers. ? And there are those who think that monsters are really hiding in their granddaughters’ closets, and that hidden, destructive parasitic oscillations reside, ready to lash out on unsuspecting operator equipment. ? Both camps are correct. RF energy behaves more like sub-atomic particles riding waves of phase change DC energy, excited somehow in more direction than only one, and possible at the very same time. ? Modeling software is only a test to see if something’s kosher or not at a readily recognizable set of params, so what, and why did my amplifier, after hours and hours of QSY everywhere and outside antenna follies, decide to go, “BINK!” and leave me with a $5,000 set of ceramojunk? “ Parasitic Oscillations,” the well-remembered AG6K would say, while his close friend(s) would say, “Hogwash!,” and both were right? ? (I still have small rolls of Nichrome 30 and Nichrome 60 if anyone needs any.) ? The circuit recommendation to avoid hi-impedance pathways is achievable by a method to bolster the ampacity. Using something with a wide bandwidth helps. ? Most Pi-W’s use microscopic wire.? Some Grid Anomalies may induce a bolt of juice in them tubes, there, of Just How Many Amperes Wre You Thinkin’?? Bazillions? You may be right, but how long was that for? ? In that infinitesimal slot your Pi-W’s windings are going to heat up, maybe in more than one place, and what’s next? Current Down, Voltage Up: Goombye Grid. ? It might as well be mentioned a nice fat slug of copper wire in between every G1 tube socket and chassis ground for as short a distance as possible makes a reliable addition to the design of all. ? Tetrode rigs, especially Grid-Driven behemoths, need great bypassing on their tube sockets. Now thems are serious monsters under the bed. ? Hal Mandel W4HBM |
开云体育Gentlemen, ? My apology. ? I was thinking you were talking about Grid Bypass circuits of caps and chokes instead of Anode Bypass. ? As a compliment, the W8JI program of analyzing and preparing Anode Chokes is topnotch in the Land. ? Hal Mandel W4HBM |
开云体育No problem Hal! ? ? 73, Evert ? / / ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of HaL Mandel via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, 28 January 2025 18:14 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ham-amplifiers] Drake L-7 ? Gentlemen, ? My apology. ? I was thinking you were talking about Grid Bypass circuits of caps and chokes instead of Anode Bypass. ? As a compliment, the W8JI program of analyzing and preparing Anode Chokes is topnotch in the Land. ? Hal Mandel W4HBM |
开云体育? Anode systems should have series-resistance to limit peak current in the event of a tube arc or failure. That series resistance should always be in the anode lead between the filter capacitors and RF choke. A diode clamp should be installed to protect meters, especially the grid meter since the grid is in the normal path of any internal tube arc.? ? Could you explain to me what this means A diode clamp should be installed Thanks -- F1AMM Fran?ois |
A diode clamp is simply? a pair of REVERSE connected diodes, like 1N5408 / 6A10 / PM-600? type diodes.? ?They are wired between the B-? and the chassis.? Then the B- can never wander more than +/- .7 vdc? from chassis potential. IF the? B+ anode ever arced to the (grounded) grid, the fault path is then through the chassis....and up out of the chassis, through one of the diodes...and back to B-? which completes the loop...and the HV fuse opens up asap, in < 1 msec.? I use a 750 ma HV fuse in series with the B+ output ( instead of drakes .82 ohm resistor)....then a 50 ohm @ 50 watt wire wound resistor.? The 50 ohm resistor will? LIMIT the fault current to just 2500/50 ohms = 50 amps.? And 50 amps of fault current will OPEN OFF? a 750 ma rated? HV fuse in < 1 msec every time.? Without the RVS connected diodes wired between? ?B- and chassis (I install em in both the L4PS / L7PS? HV supply....and also the RF deck) what happens is the fault current will flow into the chassis (anode to grid arc)...then up out of the chassis...then through the grid shunt,? grid meter pegs backwards.......then? through the plate current meter (plate current meter pegs forward)...then? back to the B-? of the HV supply, destroying both meters in the process.? |
开云体育> A diode clamp is simply? a pair of REVERSE connected diodes, […] ? Does the following diagram correspond to your proposal? ? ? What is the green diode used for? -- F1AMM Fran?ois De la part de Jim VE7RF via groups.io |
开云体育That clamp diode is typically a single diode. ? 73 Peter, DJ7WW ? ? ? ? -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [ham-amplifiers] Drake L-7 Datum: 2025-01-29T13:33:50+0100 Von: "Jim VE7RF via groups.io" <jim.thom@...> An: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> ? ? ? A diode clamp is simply? a pair of REVERSE connected diodes, like 1N5408 / 6A10 / PM-600? type diodes.? ?They are wired between the B-? and the chassis.? Then the B- can never wander more than +/- .7 vdc? from chassis potential.
IF the? B+ anode ever arced to the (grounded) grid, the fault path is then through the chassis....and up out of the chassis, through one of the diodes...and back to B-? which completes the loop...and the HV fuse opens up asap, in < 1 msec.? I use a 750 ma HV fuse in series with the B+ output ( instead of drakes .82 ohm resistor)....then a 50 ohm @ 50 watt wire wound resistor.? The 50 ohm resistor will? LIMIT the fault current to just 2500/50 ohms = 50 amps.? And 50 amps of fault current will OPEN OFF? a 750 ma rated? HV fuse in < 1 msec every time.? Without the RVS connected diodes wired between? ?B- and chassis (I install em in both the L4PS / L7PS? HV supply....and also the RF deck) what happens is the fault current will flow into the chassis (anode to grid arc)...then up out of the chassis...then through the grid shunt,? grid meter pegs backwards.......then? through the plate current meter (plate current meter pegs forward)...then? back to the B-? of the HV supply, destroying both meters in the process.? ? ? |
开云体育>That clamp diode is typically a single diode. http://radiojim.exofire.net/pages/Glitch%20diodes.html -- F1AMM Fran?ois De la part de Peter Voelpel |
开云体育Yes, a “single diode path” would have made it clearer. Here more then 0.7V are clamped, depends on the meter or meter shunt for grid current. Zener diode can be used as well or a germanium diode for less then 0.7V. I was also referring to the “green” diode of your drawing. ? 73 Peter, DJ7WW ? ? ? ? ? -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [ham-amplifiers] Drake L-7 Datum: 2025-01-29T20:36:58+0100 Von: "Fran?ois via groups.io" <18471@...> An: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> ? ? ? >That clamp diode is typically a single diode. http://radiojim.exofire.net/pages/Glitch%20diodes.html -- F1AMM Fran?ois De la part de Peter Voelpel ? ? |
开云体育Yes, a “single diode path” would have made it clearer. Thanks for the clarification. What I understood is that these diodes are used to protect the galvanometers in the event of an arc in the PA -- F1AMM Fran?ois De la part de Peter Voelpel |
开云体育I am still studying a way to cook my 3-500Z which have not been hot for at least 15 years. The idea is to cook at high current with a low anode voltage, without HF. ? The maximum rating of the cathode current is not clear in the Eimac specifications. There are examples with a current of 0.4 A (for one tube). ·???????? Does this current (0.4 A) seem acceptable to you? ·???????? Can we go beyond that? This requires a grid voltage of around +30/+40V 100 mA. So 4 W and the tube is given for 20W ? I am considering using, temporarily, another transformer, with a lower secondary voltage, upstream of the doubler. ? Is this a bad idea? -- F1AMM Fran?ois |
开云体育Dear Francois, ? Attached, please find a great book about tubed amplifiers. ? ’73, ? Hal Mandel W4HBM |
开云体育> Attached, please find a great book about tubed amplifiers. ? Hello ? Thank you for this communication. ? Even if it does not answer my question, this document is very interesting, both at the technological and implementation level. ? I reformulate my initial questions: ·???????? What is the maximum anode current (reasonable) for a 3-500Z tube ·???????? What maximum current can be used in a Drake L 7 to bake the tubes (not in RF operation), compared to the transformer capacity for example. ? I measured some characteristics of the HV transformer (measured in short circuit) ·???????? Transformation ratio o?? In CW: 2.95 o?? In SSB: 4.14 ·???????? Resistance brought back to the secondary o?? In CW: 13.4 ? o?? In SSB: 18.6 ? ? -- F1AMM Fran?ois ? De la part de HaL Mandel via groups.io |
The original? C41 cap (47 pf) is failure prone.? ?Replace it with a 50 pf TX doorknob cap.? ?The original cap? was made from pc board. C42? ( 307 pf)? is used to pad the TUNE cap on 160m only.? ?It's failure prone too.? ?Replace it with a 300 pf doorknob. C39 and C40? will eventually fail.? ?Replace? with a pair of 1000 pf @ 5/7.5 kv doorknobs.? ?The original caps were discs types.? |
The 3-500zg tube with the graphite plate can handle 600ma ICAS ? The regular 3-500 rated 450ma CCS! ?With enough cooling (very important factor) you could run 2000 watts pep output SSB with a pair of tubes. ?Most vintage amps do not have the transformer capability of this anyhow except for the older Henry amps that can do this. ?
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On Friday, January 31, 2025, 12:50 AM, Fran?ois via groups.io <18471@...> wrote:
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Some versions of the older Henry amps were rated for 2 kw pep out on ssb.? But they also had improved cooling and also a bigger B+ supply.? To getter older tubes, on the drake L7,? you can use the lower (1900 vdc) position, and temp shunt out any bias ( shunt out any series diodes used for bias)...and then apply a bit ( a few watts, 10-20 watts) of drive, and maladjust the tune control to put the tank circuit off resonance...such that both tubes show some colour.? |
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Jim VE7RF via groups.io <jim.thom@...>
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2025 3:29 AM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [ham-amplifiers] Drake L-7 ?
Some versions of the older Henry amps were rated for 2 kw pep out on ssb.? But they also had improved cooling and also a bigger B+ supply.?
To getter older tubes, on the drake L7,? you can use the lower (1900 vdc) position, and temp shunt out any bias ( shunt out any series diodes used for bias)...and then apply a bit ( a few watts, 10-20 watts) of drive, and maladjust the tune control to put the tank circuit off resonance...such that both tubes show some colour.? |
It’s a well known fact that the Ameritron AL80b can obtain 1kw output ?pep?with a single 3-500. They only run 3000 volts anode voltage. ?The old Henry amps made prior to the power rule change were used in some Embassies. ?For that use they were running the same amps sold to hams. ?The Henry amps had choke input filers and 4000 volts anode and the?plate voltage was rock steady. ?Easily capable of 2kw pep output. ?Naturally the ham manuals didn’t necessarily boast that sort of power and tune up instructions were geared towards legal limits. ?Hence the CW/SSB change in voltage. ?Load to 1 kwdc input on CW Carrier) switch to SSB and talk and get 2kw pep input, but dare not let down in the SSB voltage!!! You’ll break the law. ?When the 1500 pep putput came in, away went the cw/SSB switches, not need for them anymore!!
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On Friday, February 14, 2025, 12:51 PM, W7WRX <clark@...> wrote:
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The Tokyo High power HL2K? with 3-500s was also such a amp. It had proper cooling(fully pressurised) On 240 VAC it could easily hit 2KW pep even though it was rated for 1.2KW PEP. Much like the TL922 which can? easily hit 1.5KW pep on 20 metres and below. The Tokyo high power HL2K was a popular RTTY? contest amp because it would not break down or melt parts and pins because of proper cooling. I think Amp Supply also had a heavy duty 3-500Z 3 or 4 holer, I cant remember.? |
开云体育
Which models had 4kv on the plate?? A Triode is only going to give 10 to 12 DB of gain.??
Man, I have worked on and rebuilt pretty much all of these amps and even the later 3KA with its HD supply won't do 2kw.? It does not have 4KV on plate.? I was curious which ones did.? It's rated at 3k input and the efficiency is pretty poor.??
Henry used horrible small Fil chokes in series.? These things need to be tossed in the trash.? They get super-hot and after years of use the permeability changes.? they get harder and harder to drive.
Its so bad that the Tubes won't have the same fil voltage on them. Thats why these things always have one bright tube.? One of the tubes can be a half to a full volt off!?
The last one I rebuilt made 1800W out on low bands but needed a 200W radio to get there. It really works hard there.? ?I put a fil transformer in with a proper Fil choke.? Now each tube is spot on for voltage.? The amp runs so much better.? The blower is way
too small.? I put a Dayton ball bearing blower it. Half the noise and twice the air.?
C
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Louis Parascondola via groups.io <Gudguyham@...>
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2025 3:41 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [ham-amplifiers] Drake L-7 ?
It’s a well known fact that the Ameritron AL80b can obtain 1kw output ?pep?with a single 3-500. They only run 3000 volts anode voltage. ?The old Henry amps made prior to the power rule change were used in some Embassies. ?For that use they were running
the same amps sold to hams. ?The Henry amps had choke input filers and 4000 volts anode and the?plate voltage was rock steady. ?Easily capable of 2kw pep output. ?Naturally the ham manuals didn’t necessarily boast that sort of power and tune up instructions
were geared towards legal limits. ?Hence the CW/SSB change in voltage. ?Load to 1 kwdc input on CW Carrier) switch to SSB and talk and get 2kw pep input, but dare not let down in the SSB voltage!!! You’ll break the law. ?When the 1500 pep putput came in, away
went the cw/SSB switches, not need for them anymore!!
On Friday, February 14, 2025, 12:51 PM, W7WRX <clark@...> wrote:
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