ORIGINAL MESSAGE:

On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 01:23:18 -0000, "pentalab" <jim.thomson@...>
wrote:

### Dunno where the 11m term "pill" came from.

------------ REPLY FOLLOWS ------------

"Transistor" has more syllables than are allowed on 11 meters. :-)

Bill, W6WRT

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 18:50:49 -0500, Tony King - W4ZT
<w4zt2007@...> wrote:

Q signals belong on CW... that's why they were invented ;)

------------ REPLY FOLLOWS ------------

Not on RTTY?

Bill, W6WRT

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ham_amplifiers
group.

File : /YC-243.pdf
Uploaded by : pentalab <jim.thomson@...>
Description : Eimac YC-243 data sheets. [Socketless 3CX-6000A7 / YUI-148]

You can access this file at the URL:


To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:


Regards,

pentalab <jim.thomson@...>

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., 1800 Toll Free
<TollFree1800@...> wrote:

Of course, since the waveform is nothing more than a squarewave

when it hits the pair of 4CX15000's, they can take being driven by
15,000 watts.

The duty cycle is a lot less than 100 percent, overall.

### I take it they run the 4 x 15's in GG.. with screen and grids
all bonded to chassis ? If they need 15 kw to drive em....
heck.. why not just grid drive em ???

### BTW... I had a call from Arnold Howell not too long ago....
IF any of ur 11m buddy's require YC-243's... [ Eimac
SOCKETLESS version of a 3CX-6000A7 / YU-148] lemme now asap....
if he gets enough interest.... he's gonna get Eimac to do a small
production run.... BUT he won't do it unless at least 10 x tubes
are ordered.

### The YC-243 is slick.... comes with a built in 4.25" diam grid
flange vs the 4" diam grid ring on the socketed version. The
fil assy is solid silver plated bar stock.... with two huge
threaded bolts pointed straight down, embedded in the bar stock.

### Just whack a hole in chassis... and bolt grid flange [ 1/8"
thick] to chassis with 12 x 1/4-20 bolts. All silver plated..
a real thing of beauty.

### Economy Electronics doesn't sell em anymore either... and
it's Howell's design.

### They sell for LESS than a standard socketed 3CX-6000A7... and
now that the sockets from RF parts are up to $375.00.... u save
the cost of the socket as well.

### If anybody wants the Official Eimac PDF file on this YC-243..
lemme know. I'll send it to you. Next week, I'll see if I can
post the PDF file on the "files" link .. just above .."photo's"



### I came up with a way better chimney scheme than either the
Economy Electronics grey chimeny.. or Hoewll's Teflon chimney
[which is 1/4" thick solid Teflon.. and weighs a ton].

### We built a 9.5" square box around the base of the tube... and
used the original chimney in a recessed groove on top of box.
Using a Dayton 5C508 blower.. we could get an easy 320 cfm out
the top of the tube. [at .9" h2o pressure] With a 20 deg C [68
deg F] inlet air temp.... the anode diss is 9700 W CCS !

### The whole secret was the 9.5" square box. That allows plenty
of holes in chassis. The ceramic stem on the both a 3x3 and a
3x6 is small in diam.. compared to say a YC-156, etc... and there
is plenty of intake surface fin area on the underside of a 3x6.

### The latest version uses a taller box... and a solid Teflon
top.. with a 6.125" hole in it......... eliminating the aftermarket
chimney's alltogether.

### The stock aftermarket straight up/down chimney's restricted
the airflow like crazy.... due to the smaller holes u could cut in
the chassis cuz of the smaller ID of the chimney's. They were
also too big an ID... letting even more air escape on the outside
of the tube.

### You can see all 50+ pix of this on the photo page . Click
on "photo's".... then "VE7RF" [it's the photo album with the
25 kw CD slug. ]

Later.... Jim VE7RF

Another post shared.

Thanks Paul,

See that's the fallacy. There's no such thing as a metric moon. The metric
system is based on an EARTH DERIVED distance. SO they are taking an earth
based measurement and moving it to SPACE. Nobody other than EARTHLINGS
could understand this measurement.

MY measurement system takes a SPACE DERIVED measurement system and moves it
to PLANETOIDS.

This is far more logical.

For instance, You want a galactic frequency? You dial up PI times HYDROGEN
1420.4058 times 3.14159 = 4462.3326572 MHz. All species of life should
understand it. Neutral hydrogen is everywhere in space.

PI itself a transcendental number. Also should be understood Galatically.

The speed of light in a vacuum.. Also a constant that should be understood
galactically. SO why not divide the distance of the speed of light down
DECIMALLY like the metric system until it is a measurement like INCHES,
Feet, Yards, Miles - Millimeters, Centimeters, Kilometers, ETC?

It might even be smarter to do the measurements BINARILY but I haven't
thought that far.

WHY is NASA being so stupid? I think I will drop them a line and tell them
the error in their ways.

The WHOLE planet should be switching to MY system over time and not the
metric system.

Robert B Bonner PH.D.

开云体育

That's an even better reason to standardize on SCHMEDLAPS.

On Jan 12, 2007, at 4:37 PM, Robert B. Bonner wrote:

Typ metric to queens english and vice versa faux pas. Don't
laugh.... a few commercial airliners went down cuz of a litre to US
gal screw up. I have seen several containers made in the US..
where they will state the eq metric as anything from 3.8 L... to
3.82 L.... all the way up to 4.0 l.

There trouble with gallons is that there are two kinds of 'em.

later... Jim VE7RF

The hardest thing I EVER DID AS A PILOT wasn't flying through a
thunderstorm, it was gassing up our Aircraft in CANADA-EH?

I was a First Officer at the time and flew into Toronto in a FedEX Fokker
F-27 and needed POUNDS of Fuel. Pounds then converted to gallons, converted
to LITERS to tell the fuelers so they could load us up. I triple checked
the calculations and when done had to make sure it was really as full as I
wanted it.

Airplanes fly by pounds not liters. Pounds of people, pounds of cargo,
pounds of fuel, pounds of money. Oh that last one might be piles of money.

How dare they sell gas by the liter? OK that covers VOLUME. Lets talk
about distance.

The only thing I understand in millimeters is the length of my wife's
cigarettes and a cigar ring gauge. You foreigners speak English or get the
hell out, hahahahaha OH, you are already? HUM?

I was working on a NEW measurement system and insist it be implemented to
replace both the ENGLISH and Metric systems.

In my system all time, speed and distance measurements are keyed off the
SPEED of light in a vacuum. When you broke it down to a millionth or
whatever the METER is slightly off and so is the yard. Think about the
logic. This is actually a universal measurement...

As far as a standard volume measurement that became more difficult I went
back to how much I could WIZZ at 12AM on a night out at the bar after a 6
pack @ 59 degrees and 29.92 barometric pressure as a SCHMEDLAP. This will
replace the gallon and liter... Until a better system can be thought up,
you're stuck with that.. SO I expect the world to start using SCHMEDLAPS
PER LIGHTYEAR AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

BOB DD

R. L. Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org

I see the moon is now metric:



Paul G4DCV

Robert B. Bonner wrote:

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:38:46 -0800, Robert B. Bonner <rbonner@...> wrote:

Yeah I seriously thought of getting into that game myself at one time.
What a way to make a living.

I was going to take a suburban and remove the 454 and place a diesel 480v
3ph generation unit in it under the hood and back into the cockpit. Use a
100HP electric motor to move the BURBAN and fill the rest of the back with
big tube power.

There is a gentleman in Florida with a big block in the back of a van, moving I believe is 7 or 8 alternators.

His ERP (out of the phased array) is close to quarter million watts.

Another friend of mine in San Diego has a pair of 15,000s being driven by a Harris 3-1000Z military box. This is mobile, with a 5 element yagi on top, direct fed 50 ohm W2DU balun/choke fed. This is mounted in a Freightliner purpose built. A 150Kw Onan is mounted to the rear, where your 5th wheel would normally be.


Then their is Weed in Florida who ran a pair of 10,000s into a 6 element on a Texas Towers mobile tower setup.

Wear a lead lined space suit and go for the gusto.

But then I got a huge dose of reality and that was that. It felt good to
know I had a plan.

And it's also good to know that you don't want to compete with idiocy.

One person is using a military induction power unit I've heard. BIG numbers, coming out of that unit.

--Toll_Free

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:23:18 -0800, pentalab <jim.thomson@...> wrote:

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "Robert B. Bonner"
<rbonner@...> wrote:

Yeah we had to straighten out a few of the guys on AMPS today.



A touch of the professor's wisdom.

### anybody who doesn't know what a 3x3 is... well... they should
go straight to their ARRL hand book.... where they still won't
figure it out.

### Dunno where the 11m term "pill" came from. Saw that a few
yrs back.... "192 pill amp" ... what did they do.... build a
heatsink the size of a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood.... and then run the
entire mess on 18V ?? What's the IMD on ssb, on these things ??

Pill: MRF455 looks like a small pill of aspirin.

192 devices are built as 3 64 device amplifiers, and then they combine them.

### Using a linear amplier on AM seems kind of silly to me.....

Using a non linear amplifier produces distortion, unless your high level modulating it.

Although it is common to run class b/c (whichever you choose to call it) grounded base when running high Vcc. This mode does create a LOT more junk on the band.....

Another 'trick' if you will the competition guys do is overdrive the living hell out of their amps. Swinging wildly as a switch, they can get quite a bit more output.... But C'mon, how clean is it, and how much MORE real output power is it, when you're driving a 2879 with 80 watts PEP, and running it at 23 volts? Sure, it's making the Bird move wildly to the right (if you have a peak kit), but....

They don't really rate the distortion output of these amps. Most "builders" (they don't call themselves tech's anymore, becauses too many of the real tech's out there put them in their place and showed them they can't design or fix themselves out of a wet paper box... Most of the "builders" on 11 meters actually came from club DaveMade, and through bad drug deals, branched out on their own.) just copy DaveMade's design, and that's nothing more than a different mix of ferrite and Motorola App Notes clobbered together on a board that's dremel tooled to etch it... Or, more often than that, they just hot glue small strips of pc board material.

These amps work, and work quite well at what they are designed to do, but to ask about SSB use is ludicrous.

since the cxr power is only gonna be 1/5 of the pep output. You
woulod have to pulse tune it to full pep output [tube amp].... then,
with an unmodulated cxr... adj the cxr for 1/4 to 1/5 the pep
output.

No, actually they rate their stuff at full bore, carrier power.

I actually watched a box I helped build get tuned up. They turn the carrier control up on the radio, and tune every stage for max suds. Just make the meter move farther to the right, and that's alright.

Of course, since the waveform is nothing more than a squarewave when it hits the pair of 4CX15000's, they can take being driven by 15,000 watts. The duty cycle is a lot less than 100 percent, overall.

It's a 10 second key, usually.

### what exactly goes on in one of these shoot outs ?? I heard
each vehicle has an assigend freq... and they each send a 10 sec
dead cxr..... with the referee 20 miles away... and his spectrum A.

It's RF Drag Racing. Two guys line up in a field, and they have a guy standing up in the middle. He raises his hands, you hit your motor and fire down.... When he drops his hands, it's all over.... It is taped at the "watergate" station, and run in a typical elimination manner. Each time, a winner is brought up, usually over the air. That night, the watergate (tape) is played for all to hear at the keydown.

## I also heard some times there is as much as $25 K in prize
money. Who's bank rolling all this prize money ...Eimac ?

You would be amazed at how much money is flashed around. It breaks down as such.

1. Some of it is drug money. It IS a predominately black sport, but honestly, I find more drug infested riff raff on the white end of the racial scale. However, honestly, not much of it is drug based, and most of that comes from back east, mostly northeastern.
2. Mostly it's successful business owners. The person that I learned to work on large amps from (he used a 4CX10,000 in 1986) owned a roofing company. The mobile I spoke of earlier is owned by a trucking company owner. One of the builders of these large amps owns a construction company, and he gets the hotrod motors from his brother who is a NHRA drag racer. So, it isn't a bunch of lames. One of the guys who is building biased, class AB boxes is a famous entertainer.... 5 years ago, he was building non-biased grounded base crap, but over the last 5 years discovered the proper 4/1 carrier pep relationship beats raw needleswing.

Later.... Jim VE7RF

No problem. I had / have videos of these guys in action. That dual 10,000 box spoken up above actually destroyed the AC power adapter on a camcorder when we where taping it.

People talk of contesters having severe RF...... The biggest station on I know of on 11 meters right now is running.... Well, he has a 50Kw slug in his line section, and it can move pretty much as far to the right as he wants it to. That is fed into an 89 foot long 9 element longboom yagi. His protoge on the opposite side of the US has a 90 foot beam with over 35 thousand watts of plate dissipation on his final.... Dedicated 400A 3 phase input.

11 meter shootouts, now THAT'S extreme contesting.

Have fun.


--Toll_Free


(I have a few pictures of some of these beasts, a dual 15,000 box in various stages of assembly. The 3CX3000 is now the driver of choice on 11 meters... Those are feeding our single 20,000 boxes. Contesting has no limits, when people aren't risking their license. I think it's gotten way out of hand, but hey, thats the way the needle swings, right?)

BOB DD

--



*Ratings are for transistors, tubes have guidelines*

Yeah I seriously thought of getting into that game myself at one time.
What a way to make a living.

I was going to take a suburban and remove the 454 and place a diesel 480v
3ph generation unit in it under the hood and back into the cockpit. Use a
100HP electric motor to move the BURBAN and fill the rest of the back with
big tube power.

Wear a lead lined space suit and go for the gusto.

But then I got a huge dose of reality and that was that. It felt good to
know I had a plan.

BOB DD

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "Robert B. Bonner"
<rbonner@...> wrote:

Yeah we had to straighten out a few of the guys on AMPS today.



A touch of the professor's wisdom.

### anybody who doesn't know what a 3x3 is... well... they should
go straight to their ARRL hand book.... where they still won't
figure it out.

### Dunno where the 11m term "pill" came from. Saw that a few
yrs back.... "192 pill amp" ... what did they do.... build a
heatsink the size of a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood.... and then run the
entire mess on 18V ?? What's the IMD on ssb, on these things ??

### Using a linear amplier on AM seems kind of silly to me.....
since the cxr power is only gonna be 1/5 of the pep output. You
woulod have to pulse tune it to full pep output [tube amp].... then,
with an unmodulated cxr... adj the cxr for 1/4 to 1/5 the pep
output.

### what exactly goes on in one of these shoot outs ?? I heard
each vehicle has an assigend freq... and they each send a 10 sec
dead cxr..... with the referee 20 miles away... and his spectrum A.

## I also heard some times there is as much as $25 K in prize
money. Who's bank rolling all this prize money ...Eimac ?

Later.... Jim VE7RF

BOB DD

Typ metric to queens english and vice versa faux pas. Don't
laugh.... a few commercial airliners went down cuz of a litre to US
gal screw up. I have seen several containers made in the US..
where they will state the eq metric as anything from 3.8 L... to
3.82 L.... all the way up to 4.0 l.

later... Jim VE7RF

The hardest thing I EVER DID AS A PILOT wasn't flying through a
thunderstorm, it was gassing up our Aircraft in CANADA-EH?

I was a First Officer at the time and flew into Toronto in a FedEX Fokker
F-27 and needed POUNDS of Fuel. Pounds then converted to gallons, converted
to LITERS to tell the fuelers so they could load us up. I triple checked
the calculations and when done had to make sure it was really as full as I
wanted it.

Airplanes fly by pounds not liters. Pounds of people, pounds of cargo,
pounds of fuel, pounds of money. Oh that last one might be piles of money.

How dare they sell gas by the liter? OK that covers VOLUME. Lets talk
about distance.

The only thing I understand in millimeters is the length of my wife's
cigarettes and a cigar ring gauge. You foreigners speak English or get the
hell out, hahahahaha OH, you are already? HUM?

I was working on a NEW measurement system and insist it be implemented to
replace both the ENGLISH and Metric systems.

In my system all time, speed and distance measurements are keyed off the
SPEED of light in a vacuum. When you broke it down to a millionth or
whatever the METER is slightly off and so is the yard. Think about the
logic. This is actually a universal measurement...

As far as a standard volume measurement that became more difficult I went
back to how much I could WIZZ at 12AM on a night out at the bar after a 6
pack @ 59 degrees and 29.92 barometric pressure as a SCHMEDLAP. This will
replace the gallon and liter... Until a better system can be thought up,
you're stuck with that.. SO I expect the world to start using SCHMEDLAPS
PER LIGHTYEAR AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

BOB DD

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "Peter Voelpel" <df3kv@...>
wrote:

Hi Dick,

We found not much more benefit from increasing coil size beyond

40cm DIAMETER on 80m.

### say what ?? 1 cm= 10mm 40cm= 400mm = 16" diam.. which is
huge.

### IF u meant 40mm... that's only 1.6"

Coils sized from 25-40cm diameter were close in competition, just

the width of the S-meter needle in difference.


#### 25-40 mm = 1" to 1.6"

### 25 cm to 40 cm = 10" to 16"

#### 5" = 125mm.... or 12.5 cm.

Typ metric to queens english and vice versa faux pas. Don't
laugh.... a few commercial airliners went down cuz of a litre to US
gal screw up. I have seen several containers made in the US..
where they will state the eq metric as anything from 3.8 L... to
3.82 L.... all the way up to 4.0 l.

later... Jim VE7RF

73
Peter

That was a GREAT piece of work Bob!

Too bad there so many that can't or wont buy into the simple things that make us smile.

Q signals belong on CW... that's why they were invented ;)

Roger isn't a question, except on 11 meters! Neither is QSL, except on CW.

Best regards... not best regardses (73's) LOL!

Tony W4ZT

Robert B. Bonner wrote:

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "Robert B. Bonner" <rbonner@...>
wrote:

Yeah we had to straighten out a few of the guys on AMPS today.>
A touch of the professor's wisdom.
BOB DD

Verily, verily! they have eliminated all of the code, most of the
theory, and now they are going after our "jive-talk!"

I guess the "Q" signals will have to go next, and then they will hire
hit men to finish us off.

(((73)))
Phil Clements, K5PC

开云体育

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "Peter Voelpel" <df3kv@...>
wrote:

Beside, when using real loading coils and not such 5" mickey mouse

coils,

500W are all one needs to work any station heard on 80m and break

most dx

pileups easily.

73
Peter

#### I find this hard to believe. And 5" diam coil is pretty
damn big.... like 125mm. Ur 80m mobile ant is still -9 db....
most 80m mobile stations and 500 w is bare minimum... not exactly
pile up busting material.

Jim VE7RF

Anyone happen to know what was used to plate the chassis in Detron
amps?

I have one that has some rust at the seam on the front(behind the
aluminum front panel) and thought I would clean it up and seal it
before it spread, but I didn't want to use something that might damage
the unaffected plating.

Thank you,
Anthony, NT4X