开云体育

ctrl + shift + ? for shortcuts
© 2025 Groups.io

Re: Drake L-7

 

The 3-500zg tube with the graphite plate can handle 600ma ICAS ? The regular 3-500 rated 450ma CCS! ?With enough cooling (very important factor) you could run 2000 watts pep output SSB with a pair of tubes. ?Most vintage amps do not have the transformer capability of this anyhow except for the older Henry amps that can do this. ?




On Friday, January 31, 2025, 12:50 AM, Fran?ois via groups.io <18471@...> wrote:

> Attached, please find a great book about tubed amplifiers.

?

Hello

?

Thank you for this communication.

?

Even if it does not answer my question, this document is very interesting, both at the technological and implementation level.

?

I reformulate my initial questions:

·???????? What is the maximum anode current (reasonable) for a 3-500Z tube

·???????? What maximum current can be used in a Drake L 7 to bake the tubes (not in RF operation), compared to the transformer capacity for example.

?

I measured some characteristics of the HV transformer (measured in short circuit)

·???????? Transformation ratio

o?? In CW: 2.95

o?? In SSB: 4.14

·???????? Resistance brought back to the secondary

o?? In CW: 13.4 ?

o?? In SSB: 18.6 ?

?

--

F1AMM

Fran?ois

?

De la part de HaL Mandel via groups.io
贰苍惫辞测é?: jeudi 30 janvier 2025 21:30


Re: Drake L-7

 

The original? C41 cap (47 pf) is failure prone.? ?Replace it with a 50 pf TX doorknob cap.? ?The original cap? was made from pc board.

C42? ( 307 pf)? is used to pad the TUNE cap on 160m only.? ?It's failure prone too.? ?Replace it with a 300 pf doorknob.

C39 and C40? will eventually fail.? ?Replace? with a pair of 1000 pf @ 5/7.5 kv doorknobs.? ?The original caps were discs types.?


Re: Commander HF-2500 Plate Choke

 

The 3 x section choke,? currently sold by ameritron,? is now screwed up.? Ameritron ran outa 28 ga wire...and started using 27 ga wire.? ?The pair of gaps is way less.? Steve at RF parts got a ton of the screwed up ones....and sent me one to test on my vna.? ?The screwed up version series resonates on 20m and 17m.? Scott got one of the screwed up versions and tossed it.?

The ONLY version of that choke that is wound correctly is sold by W8JI? at CTR engineering.?

I got 2 from RF parts years ago....and tested both of em on the VNA.? ?They resonate at aprx 12.5 mhz...and also 16.5 mhz.? Normal.

Interestingly enough, the 154 uh plate choke in all 4 of my L4B's? ?resonates at 12.5 mhz...and 16.5 mhz.? ? The drake choke is just one winding.?

Now how a good ameritron choke resonates on 30m band, on older alpha's is beyond me.? Close proximity to metal, and / or dielectrics will? shift the resonant freqs down.

The ameritron choke is 6" tall....and is too tall for the L4B.? Barely any clearance between top screw on choke...and top lid.?


Re: Drake L-7

 

开云体育

> Attached, please find a great book about tubed amplifiers.

?

Hello

?

Thank you for this communication.

?

Even if it does not answer my question, this document is very interesting, both at the technological and implementation level.

?

I reformulate my initial questions:

·???????? What is the maximum anode current (reasonable) for a 3-500Z tube

·???????? What maximum current can be used in a Drake L 7 to bake the tubes (not in RF operation), compared to the transformer capacity for example.

?

I measured some characteristics of the HV transformer (measured in short circuit)

·???????? Transformation ratio

o?? In CW: 2.95

o?? In SSB: 4.14

·???????? Resistance brought back to the secondary

o?? In CW: 13.4 ?

o?? In SSB: 18.6 ?

?

--

F1AMM

Fran?ois

?

De la part de HaL Mandel via groups.io
贰苍惫辞测é?: jeudi 30 janvier 2025 21:30


Re: Commander HF-2500 Plate Choke

 

开云体育

Dear? Riki,

?

Tom, W8JI,

W8JI

W8JI

https://www.w8ji.com

?

is a coil-winder from Days Gone By.

?

Look up his website and see the variety of

RF Chokes he offers.

?

Hal Mandel

W4HBM


Re: Drake L-7

 

开云体育

Dear Francois,

?

Attached, please find a great book about tubed amplifiers.

?

’73,

?

Hal Mandel

W4HBM


Re: Drake L-7

 

开云体育

I am still studying a way to cook my 3-500Z which have not been hot for at least 15 years. The idea is to cook at high current with a low anode voltage, without HF.

?

The maximum rating of the cathode current is not clear in the Eimac specifications. There are examples with a current of 0.4 A (for one tube).

·???????? Does this current (0.4 A) seem acceptable to you?

·???????? Can we go beyond that?

This requires a grid voltage of around +30/+40V 100 mA. So 4 W and the tube is given for 20W

?

I am considering using, temporarily, another transformer, with a lower secondary voltage, upstream of the doubler.

?

Is this a bad idea?

--

F1AMM

Fran?ois


Re: Drake L-7

 

开云体育

Yes, a “single diode path” would have made it clearer.

Thanks for the clarification. What I understood is that these diodes are used to protect the galvanometers in the event of an arc in the PA

--

F1AMM

Fran?ois

De la part de Peter Voelpel
贰苍惫辞测é?: jeudi 30 janvier 2025 00:42


Re: Commander HF-2500 Plate Choke

 

开云体育

Hi Riki

I own a 1990 HF-2500 which I got from the estate of a local ham many years ago. I had a question about it on this forum last week but through perseverance and much hair pulling, I managed to resolve it.

Anyway, when I got the amp, there was a spare plate choke with it. It is different to the one in the amp. It is on a 4" long, 1" diameter former and it is a single layer coil with a tap point about 30% up from the bottom and there was a orange 100pF/10kV Z5U ceramic capacitor which came with the choke. I assume that his capacitor is connected to that tap on the coil.

I don't need the choke. The one in my amp is fine and if it ever does go bad, then I would replace it with one of W8JI's chokes, which I'm sure work work in that location, especially since the amp does not have 12, 17 and 30m.

I am happy to post it to you for the cost of the postage from Australia. It would take around 2 weeks to get to you via ordinaly parcel post. I could also send it express if you wanted it quicker.

Email me direct at vk6apk@... if you think it would be suitable. I'm happy to take pics and email them to you direct.

73, Alek VK6APK.

On 30/01/2025 1:26 pm, Riki, K7NJ via groups.io wrote:

Somebody who previously owned my Commander HF-2500 replaced the carbon resistors in the plate parasitic chokes with a different type of resistor.? This worked fine on low frequencies 160M, 80M, and 40M.? ?When I used the amplifier on 10M, it became very unstable, most likely with a parasitic oscillation and caused the plate blocking capacitor to explode and catch on fire. The main fuses blew, as well as the one on the board that contains the bias and control circuitry.? After replacing these fuses and installing carbon resistors in the parasitic suppressors, I found that the amplifier would no longer work on 80M.? Eventually, I discovered some discolored places on the plate RF choke where it had evidently arced through its insulation causing the needed 10M high impedance to shift.? The choke was replaced? with one I had from another Commander HF-2500 that has been a source of spare parts.? While trying to do this, the windings (there's more than one - rather complex winding - some over the top of others) became loose, and I unsuccessfully spent several hours trying to get the windings back like they were and tight on the form they were wound on.? Even though not satisfied with the replacement choke with loose and sloppy windings, I tried the amplifier on all the usual bands starting at 160M and up to 10M.? It seems to work fine up through 15M, but the 10M band doesn't tune properly - most likely because the plate choke was still a problem.
?
Does anybody have an original Commander HF-2500 plate choke that they would like to sell or know where I might find one?? Another possibility is to substitute a different plate choke that works well in another amplifier with similar plate parameters. Probably the big challenge in using a different choke would be to mechanically fit it into the rather crowded place in the Commander. Another possibility would be to add a second plate RF choke with a high impedance on 10M in series with the other choke, but this still might be problematical due to the tendency of the big choke to break down as before. Suggestions, especially from anyone who has successfully used a different choke in the Commander, would be very much appreciated.
73, Riki K7NJ
?
?
?


Commander HF-2500 Plate Choke

 

Somebody who previously owned my Commander HF-2500 replaced the carbon resistors in the plate parasitic chokes with a different type of resistor.? This worked fine on low frequencies 160M, 80M, and 40M.? ?When I used the amplifier on 10M, it became very unstable, most likely with a parasitic oscillation and caused the plate blocking capacitor to explode and catch on fire. The main fuses blew, as well as the one on the board that contains the bias and control circuitry.? After replacing these fuses and installing carbon resistors in the parasitic suppressors, I found that the amplifier would no longer work on 80M.? Eventually, I discovered some discolored places on the plate RF choke where it had evidently arced through its insulation causing the needed 10M high impedance to shift.? The choke was replaced? with one I had from another Commander HF-2500 that has been a source of spare parts.? While trying to do this, the windings (there's more than one - rather complex winding - some over the top of others) became loose, and I unsuccessfully spent several hours trying to get the windings back like they were and tight on the form they were wound on.? Even though not satisfied with the replacement choke with loose and sloppy windings, I tried the amplifier on all the usual bands starting at 160M and up to 10M.? It seems to work fine up through 15M, but the 10M band doesn't tune properly - most likely because the plate choke was still a problem.
?
Does anybody have an original Commander HF-2500 plate choke that they would like to sell or know where I might find one?? Another possibility is to substitute a different plate choke that works well in another amplifier with similar plate parameters. Probably the big challenge in using a different choke would be to mechanically fit it into the rather crowded place in the Commander. Another possibility would be to add a second plate RF choke with a high impedance on 10M in series with the other choke, but this still might be problematical due to the tendency of the big choke to break down as before. Suggestions, especially from anyone who has successfully used a different choke in the Commander, would be very much appreciated.
73, Riki K7NJ
?
?
?


Re: Drake L-7

 

开云体育

Yes, a “single diode path” would have made it clearer.

Here more then 0.7V are clamped, depends on the meter or meter shunt for grid current.

Zener diode can be used as well or a germanium diode for less then 0.7V.

I was also referring to the “green” diode of your drawing.

?

73

Peter, DJ7WW

?

?

?

?

?

-----Original-Nachricht-----

Betreff: Re: [ham-amplifiers] Drake L-7

Datum: 2025-01-29T20:36:58+0100

Von: "Fran?ois via groups.io" <18471@...>

An: "ham-amplifiers@groups.io" <ham-amplifiers@groups.io>

?

?

?

>That clamp diode is typically a single diode.

http://radiojim.exofire.net/pages/Glitch%20diodes.html

--

F1AMM

Fran?ois

De la part de Peter Voelpel
贰苍惫辞测é?: mercredi 29 janvier 2025 18:37

?

?


Re: Drake L-7

 

开云体育

>That clamp diode is typically a single diode.

http://radiojim.exofire.net/pages/Glitch%20diodes.html

--

F1AMM

Fran?ois

De la part de Peter Voelpel
贰苍惫辞测é?: mercredi 29 janvier 2025 18:37


Re: Drake L-7

 

开云体育

That clamp diode is typically a single diode.

?

73

Peter, DJ7WW

?

?

?

?

-----Original-Nachricht-----

Betreff: Re: [ham-amplifiers] Drake L-7

Datum: 2025-01-29T13:33:50+0100

Von: "Jim VE7RF via groups.io" <jim.thom@...>

An: "ham-amplifiers@groups.io" <ham-amplifiers@groups.io>

?

?

?

A diode clamp is simply? a pair of REVERSE connected diodes, like 1N5408 / 6A10 / PM-600? type diodes.? ?They are wired between the B-? and the chassis.? Then the B- can never wander more than +/- .7 vdc? from chassis potential.

IF the? B+ anode ever arced to the (grounded) grid, the fault path is then through the chassis....and up out of the chassis, through one of the diodes...and back to B-? which completes the loop...and the HV fuse opens up asap, in < 1 msec.?

I use a 750 ma HV fuse in series with the B+ output ( instead of drakes .82 ohm resistor)....then a 50 ohm @ 50 watt wire wound resistor.? The 50 ohm resistor will? LIMIT the fault current to just 2500/50 ohms = 50 amps.? And 50 amps of fault current will OPEN OFF? a 750 ma rated? HV fuse in < 1 msec every time.?

Without the RVS connected diodes wired between? ?B- and chassis (I install em in both the L4PS / L7PS? HV supply....and also the RF deck) what happens is the fault current will flow into the chassis (anode to grid arc)...then up out of the chassis...then through the grid shunt,? grid meter pegs backwards.......then? through the plate current meter (plate current meter pegs forward)...then? back to the B-? of the HV supply, destroying both meters in the process.?

?

?


Re: Drake L-7

 

开云体育

> A diode clamp is simply? a pair of REVERSE connected diodes, […]

?

Does the following diagram correspond to your proposal?

?

?

What is the green diode used for?

--

F1AMM

Fran?ois

De la part de Jim VE7RF via groups.io
贰苍惫辞测é?: mercredi 29 janvier 2025 13:34


Re: Drake L-7

 

A diode clamp is simply? a pair of REVERSE connected diodes, like 1N5408 / 6A10 / PM-600? type diodes.? ?They are wired between the B-? and the chassis.? Then the B- can never wander more than +/- .7 vdc? from chassis potential.

IF the? B+ anode ever arced to the (grounded) grid, the fault path is then through the chassis....and up out of the chassis, through one of the diodes...and back to B-? which completes the loop...and the HV fuse opens up asap, in < 1 msec.?

I use a 750 ma HV fuse in series with the B+ output ( instead of drakes .82 ohm resistor)....then a 50 ohm @ 50 watt wire wound resistor.? The 50 ohm resistor will? LIMIT the fault current to just 2500/50 ohms = 50 amps.? And 50 amps of fault current will OPEN OFF? a 750 ma rated? HV fuse in < 1 msec every time.?

Without the RVS connected diodes wired between? ?B- and chassis (I install em in both the L4PS / L7PS? HV supply....and also the RF deck) what happens is the fault current will flow into the chassis (anode to grid arc)...then up out of the chassis...then through the grid shunt,? grid meter pegs backwards.......then? through the plate current meter (plate current meter pegs forward)...then? back to the B-? of the HV supply, destroying both meters in the process.?


Re: Drake L-7

 

开云体育

?

Anode systems should have series-resistance to limit peak current in the event of a tube arc or failure. That series resistance should always be in the anode lead between the filter capacitors and RF choke. A diode clamp should be installed to protect meters, especially the grid meter since the grid is in the normal path of any internal tube arc.?

?

Could you explain to me what this means A diode clamp should be installed

Thanks

--

F1AMM

Fran?ois


Re: Drake L-7

 

开云体育

No problem Hal!

?

?

73, Evert

?

/ /

?

From: ham-amplifiers@groups.io <ham-amplifiers@groups.io> On Behalf Of HaL Mandel via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, 28 January 2025 18:14
To: ham-amplifiers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [ham-amplifiers] Drake L-7

?

Gentlemen,

?

My apology.

?

I was thinking you were talking about Grid

Bypass circuits of caps and chokes instead

of Anode Bypass.

?

As a compliment, the W8JI program of

analyzing and preparing Anode Chokes

is topnotch in the Land.

?

Hal Mandel

W4HBM


Re: Drake L-7

 

开云体育

Gentlemen,

?

My apology.

?

I was thinking you were talking about Grid

Bypass circuits of caps and chokes instead

of Anode Bypass.

?

As a compliment, the W8JI program of

analyzing and preparing Anode Chokes

is topnotch in the Land.

?

Hal Mandel

W4HBM


Re: Drake L-7

 

开云体育

Dear Everett et al,

?

There are those that believe a Pi-Wound, or even

a Solenoid-Wound inductor is the Saving Grace of

QRO amplifiers.

?

And there are those who think that monsters are

really hiding in their granddaughters’ closets, and

that hidden, destructive parasitic oscillations

reside, ready to lash out on unsuspecting operator

equipment.

?

Both camps are correct. RF energy behaves more like

sub-atomic particles riding waves of phase change

DC energy, excited somehow in more direction

than only one, and possible at the very same time.

?

Modeling software is only a test to see if something’s

kosher or not at a readily recognizable set of params,

so what, and why did my amplifier, after hours and

hours of QSY everywhere and outside antenna follies,

decide to go, “BINK!” and leave me with a $5,000

set of ceramojunk? “ Parasitic Oscillations,” the

well-remembered AG6K would say, while his close

friend(s) would say, “Hogwash!,” and both were right?

?

(I still have small rolls of Nichrome 30 and Nichrome 60

if anyone needs any.)

?

The circuit recommendation to avoid hi-impedance

pathways is achievable by a method to bolster the ampacity.

Using something with a wide bandwidth helps.

?

Most Pi-W’s use microscopic wire.? Some Grid Anomalies

may induce a bolt of juice in them tubes, there, of Just

How Many Amperes Wre You Thinkin’?? Bazillions?

You may be right, but how long was that for?

?

In that infinitesimal slot your Pi-W’s windings are going

to heat up, maybe in more than one place, and what’s

next? Current Down, Voltage Up: Goombye Grid.

?

It might as well be mentioned a nice fat slug of copper

wire in between every G1 tube socket and chassis ground

for as short a distance as possible makes a reliable

addition to the design of all.

?

Tetrode rigs, especially Grid-Driven behemoths, need

great bypassing on their tube sockets. Now thems are

serious monsters under the bed.

?

Hal Mandel

W4HBM


Re: Drake L-7

 

开云体育

I was told that the original RF-choke could cause oscillation.

?

73, Evert

?

/ /

?

From: ham-amplifiers@groups.io <ham-amplifiers@groups.io> On Behalf Of Fran?ois via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, 28 January 2025 06:31
To: ham-amplifiers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [ham-amplifiers] Drake L-7

?

I found the RF-choke I used :

?

Thanks

?

225 ?H; that's a big value indeed. I thought you wound it yourself on the original mandrel.

?

Why did you have to change this ?RF-choke?

--

F1AMM

Fran?ois

De la part de Evert Bakker via groups.io
贰苍惫辞测é?: lundi 27 janvier 2025 21:32