I've always prayed that I'm correct in assuming I'm safe from X and other "bad" rays staying below 12Kv anode voltage.


It seems somewhere, back "then", I read that the tubes we commonly use (ie, up to the 15Kw diss level) they really didn't start producing a measurable amount of bad things until you hit >10Kv and more like >12kv.


If I'm wrong, I'll be sterile soon... But, I got 3 boys, so I'm ok... Fire up that variac!




--Toll_Free

--



*Ratings are for transistors, tubes have guidelines*

开云体育

Robert B. Bonner wrote:

Most of the lurkers here pay attention to what's getting said without
posting. Most of them will NEVER build their own amps, but are curious
regarding what the "experienced guys" are up to. For sure most will never
build an amp with a tube with handles. It takes considerably more
experience to keep 6KV tidy than it does 3KV.

Sorry if I'm dragging things too far OT, but, speaking of HV and keeping things
tidy, I'm wondering what knowledgeable folks think about X-ray exposure...
i.e. at what voltage range do things start to get interesting? I once saw someone
comment on a homebrew amp that was for sale, running ~5kV as I recall, and
the poster seemed quite alarmed.

Obviously, the B+ is the biggest concern, but, then again, there's instant notification
when you screw up THERE (some say that Jesus lives in the B+ supply, and you
can meet him there).

Thanks for any input.

73,
Randy
KZ4RV
..

On Jan 20, 2007, at 12:03 PM, craxd wrote:

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

On Jan 20, 2007, at 8:27 AM, Mike Sawyer wrote:

Rich said: "** Indeed. However, if Tom built an 8171 amp that
delivers 15 -
18, I doubt he would say anything about it publicly."

Come, come, now Rich! If there is anything that I learned from

the

AMPS list
its that W8JI loves tooting his own horn ;>)

True, Mike, but there's the our little secret tooting to drinkin'
buds and public tooting. OTOH, the project could well be on hold
until he completes a class in alternating-current circuit-analysis.

One can build anything, but making it work correctly is another
problem.

As I found out with the 8170 project.

I seen the photos, and I highly doubt that was for a piece of medical
equipment as rough as it looked. He'd be lucky to sell it to a RF
heating manufacturer. Most of those manufacturers, especially
medical, build their own in house. When you see one, they're totally
profesional in appearance, and constructed to the upmost quality.
I've not seen a piece of medical equipment that uses rack mount
construction since the 70's. Most everything like that is installed
in custom cabinets with doors. These manufacturers have CNC brakes
and turret punches, plus big paint lines. It's hard to do this by
hand using hand punches and hole saws.

I cut the big holes for the 8170 project with a Sears and Roebuck coping saw I got for Christmas when I was 6-yrs old. The blade was a 32-teeth/inch for sheet-metal cutting.

cheerz,
.
R. L. Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org

Best,

Will
...

R. L. Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org

RR

On Jan 20, 2007, at 12:21 PM, Mike Sawyer wrote:

Rich said: "True, Mike, but there's the our little secret tooting to
drinkin'
buds and public tooting. OTOH, the project could well be on hold
until he completes a class in alternating-current circuit-analysis."


Chortle!
Mod-U-Lator,
Mike(y)
W3SLK
...

R. L. Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org

Yeah Mike it does take an EGO defect of some kind to build the heavy iron.

But what the heck, by the time my next life comes around there probably wont
be ham radio to do it again.

So we have to do it now.

BOB DD

Yeah Da Club is a funny place. When you're married to one, they treat you
different than dating one.

As far as tricks... Mine just gets on top of her TESLA COIL and lights her
light bulbs like Uncle Fester.

I was taking photos of her on her coil one day for a promo, she had the 2
foot long knives in each hand... A helper hit the coil ON switch and she
arced to a nail in the living room ceiling. She ended up tossing the swords
and they stuck in the carpet right in front of me. I didn't get a picture
of that one...

Yes feature dancers (travel the country) we did that for several years after
I sold my business. Now she's just finishing up her last 6 months before
retiring as a house dancer at the local clubs.

I could tell ya, 10,000 stripper stories, but that's for another forum.

Its been an interesting ride. Not recommended for the weak at heart. (mine
exploded) HA, BOB DD

Rich said: "True, Mike, but there's the our little secret tooting to
drinkin'
buds and public tooting. OTOH, the project could well be on hold
until he completes a class in alternating-current circuit-analysis."


Chortle!
Mod-U-Lator,
Mike(y)
W3SLK

Sounds like an amplifer issue,HI.
D

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 20:01:54 -0000, PA3DUV <pa3duv@...> wrote:

mmm, looks we gonna talk real handles here... ;-)

cheers, Dick
PA3DUV

----- Original Message -----
From: craxd
To: ham_amplifiers@...
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 8:51 PM
Subject: [ham_amplifiers] Re: Tubes with handles


All.

I seen one who would light your cigarette with her twat. She would
get up on the table on all fours, place a candle in her twat, light
it, and place her butt in front of you where the lit candle was
sticking out so you could light your smoke.

Another one I seen would put her butt in guys faces while on the
dance floor-runway, and fart in their faces. That's one where I set a
few tables back when she was around. Top it all, some guys liked that
and would tip her big for it.

One hint, if you ever date one of them, you can go out with about
every one that works there I found out. I've never seen a bunch of
gals so jealous of the other as in a strip club. Date one and the
rest wants to lay you at the drop of a hat. All you have to do is
show up at the clib when the one your dating isn't there. Ohhh the
good old days of being young and partying.

Best,

Will

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "Mike Sawyer" <w3slk@...>
wrote:
>
> BB said: "I met this exotic dancer once who launched ping pong
balls around
> the room
> about the same way, she'd aim and squeeze. You won an autographed
photo if
> you caught one."
>
> I went to a show like that when I was at a port-of-call in Palma de
Mallorca
> over Christmas in 1982. Classy burlesque place where people with
tuxedoes
> stopped by. Good show and very tastefully done.
> Sorry, I'm waxing poetically ;>)
> Mod-U-Lator,
> Mike(y)
> W3SLK
>

--
TU, 73

David H. Walker
ARS: K0COP
Aiken, SC
TIME=GMT

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

On Jan 20, 2007, at 8:27 AM, Mike Sawyer wrote:

Rich said: "** Indeed. However, if Tom built an 8171 amp that
delivers 15 -
18, I doubt he would say anything about it publicly."

Come, come, now Rich! If there is anything that I learned from

the

AMPS list
its that W8JI loves tooting his own horn ;>)

True, Mike, but there's the our little secret tooting to drinkin'
buds and public tooting. OTOH, the project could well be on hold
until he completes a class in alternating-current circuit-analysis.

One can build anything, but making it work correctly is another
problem.

I seen the photos, and I highly doubt that was for a piece of medical
equipment as rough as it looked. He'd be lucky to sell it to a RF
heating manufacturer. Most of those manufacturers, especially
medical, build their own in house. When you see one, they're totally
profesional in appearance, and constructed to the upmost quality.
I've not seen a piece of medical equipment that uses rack mount
construction since the 70's. Most everything like that is installed
in custom cabinets with doors. These manufacturers have CNC brakes
and turret punches, plus big paint lines. It's hard to do this by
hand using hand punches and hole saws.

cheerz,
.
R. L. Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org

Best,

Will

开云体育

All.

I seen one who would light your cigarette with her twat. She would
get up on the table on all fours, place a candle in her twat, light
it, and place her butt in front of you where the lit candle was
sticking out so you could light your smoke.

Another one I seen would put her butt in guys faces while on the
dance floor-runway, and fart in their faces. That's one where I set a
few tables back when she was around. Top it all, some guys liked that
and would tip her big for it.

One hint, if you ever date one of them, you can go out with about
every one that works there I found out. I've never seen a bunch of
gals so jealous of the other as in a strip club. Date one and the
rest wants to lay you at the drop of a hat. All you have to do is
show up at the clib when the one your dating isn't there. Ohhh the
good old days of being young and partying.

Best,

Will

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "Mike Sawyer" <w3slk@...>
wrote:

BB said: "I met this exotic dancer once who launched ping pong

balls around

the room
about the same way, she'd aim and squeeze. You won an autographed

photo if

you caught one."

I went to a show like that when I was at a port-of-call in Palma de

Mallorca

over Christmas in 1982. Classy burlesque place where people with

tuxedoes

stopped by. Good show and very tastefully done.
Sorry, I'm waxing poetically ;>)
Mod-U-Lator,
Mike(y)
W3SLK

On Jan 20, 2007, at 8:27 AM, Mike Sawyer wrote:

Rich said: "** Indeed. However, if Tom built an 8171 amp that delivers 15 -
18, I doubt he would say anything about it publicly."

Come, come, now Rich! If there is anything that I learned from the AMPS list
its that W8JI loves tooting his own horn ;>)

True, Mike, but there's the our little secret tooting to drinkin' buds and public tooting. OTOH, the project could well be on hold until he completes a class in alternating-current circuit-analysis.

cheerz,
.
R. L. Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org

BB said: "I met this exotic dancer once who launched ping pong balls around
the room
about the same way, she'd aim and squeeze. You won an autographed photo if
you caught one."

I went to a show like that when I was at a port-of-call in Palma de Mallorca
over Christmas in 1982. Classy burlesque place where people with tuxedoes
stopped by. Good show and very tastefully done.
Sorry, I'm waxing poetically ;>)
Mod-U-Lator,
Mike(y)
W3SLK

BB said: "Most of the lurkers here pay attention to what's getting said
without
posting. Most of them will NEVER build their own amps, but are curious
regarding what the "experienced guys" are up to. For sure most will never
build an amp with a tube with handles. It takes considerably more
experience to keep 6KV tidy than it does 3KV."


Yep, you're talking about me there, Bob. I do have a home brew pair of 813's
on a chasis that belonged to my friend/elmer, Eric, WB4VVI (SK). His son
went into an LSD induced stupor and damn near destroyed it. I have
resurrected it but need to put the finishing touches so it may "push the
ether' again.
I'm not a co(r)ntester nor do I chase DX. The only amp I have that is
operable is a venerable and near indestructable RCA SB-1K maritime amp. A
pair of 4-300Z's @ 2800 VDC will do 1K all day long or as VE7RF says, "###
1K full crx." I am envious and would love to build a "heavy box" but I don't
have the need or the ego to do so.
YMMV.
Mod-U-Lator,
Mike(y)
W3SLK

Yeah you ought to try and get an 8877 out of the socket with a slightly
tweaked over Teflon chimney. It's Impossible.

All tubes should have extraction handles.

The blower in the PLASMATRON, is left over from the unit's old generator
days and when running full bore sounds like a jet engine. If you take the
anode lead off, turn up the blower and provide one thump against the rack
side, I'd swear the tube would pop 1 foot out the top of the rack.

The trick is catching it. You win the booby prize if you miss.

I met this exotic dancer once who launched ping pong balls around the room
about the same way, she'd aim and squeeze. You won an autographed photo if
you caught one.

BOB DD

Rich said: "** Indeed. However, if Tom built an 8171 amp that delivers 15 -
18,
I doubt he would say anything about it publicly."

Come, come, now Rich! If there is anything that I learned from the AMPS list
its that W8JI loves tooting his own horn ;>)
Mod-U-Lator,
Mike(y)
W3SLK

For the 8877 slammers, the 8877 is just fine. There are bunch of limits one
should watch. Filament Voltage, Maximum Plate Current, Maximum Grid
Dissipation (which can only be monitored via reading grid current and
guessing) and plate dissipation. (Which needs to be calculated)

The 8877 is one of the first tubes for ham radio that actually when ran at
its maximum ratings maxed out everywhere.

4KV at 1A made 4KW input which makes around 2500W output and dissipates
close to 1500 in the anode. All ran within the tubes maximum ratings.

Where tubes like a 3-1000Z can safely be ran over their maximum anode
current in ham service (I've ran upwards of 1.4AMPS) without breaking their
cathode or melting the plate, the 8877 user won't be so lucky hammering on
his tube's cathode.

In my 77DD prototype the owner got 12 years of use out of a pair of 8877's
in regular contest service and daily use while being run conservatively.

For some reason its always the AMATEUR WAY to run things way the heck up
there instead of cruising. Oh we say the ALPHA SX loafs at 1500 watts, but
I bet NOBODY HAS EVER RAN ONE AT 1500W. An SX is a very poor amplifier for
an 8877. (The filament is all over, and they tell you to run the grid at
too high a mA, Plate supply all over the place)

My recommendation is to monitor filament voltage. Keep the Grid Current
around 50mA with an ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM for short exposure of 100mA. On my
current amplifier the grid trip is set at 100mA and the green arc ends at
50mA.

I start paying close attention passing .900mA of plate current, but do take
it to 1A.

I have an adjustable blower, if the exhaust air smells hot, I turn up the
blower. Meaning if I'm just doing fast break SSB rag chewing it can be ran
moderate, but hammer down long winded rag chewing or contest type operating
the blower needs to spin up more. The cooler you run one of them the
happier it is, balance between shack quiet and a cool tube. You can never
blow enough air through a tube.

Where a glass tube will show you the error of your ways, a ceramic tube has
already been damaged with a black anode if you do something stupid to it.

So if you follow the rules with an 8877 a pair will make right at 5000W
nicely. Oh they will do more, but then you are pushing the ANODE
DISSIPATION limit which is very unwise.

The 8877 was tested for pulse service before they built the 3CPX version and
was ran to 8KV. I have successfully ran 8877's to 5KV on a regular basis.
It does allow you to reach the "ANODE DISSIPATION LIMIT" below the maximum
anode current limit.

You have no need to be afraid of the tube. However if you are somewhat
amplifier non-savvy or ham fisted, go with a different tube selection like a
3CX1200A7.

If you've got a problem flipping to a carrier with the drive all the way up,
it’s a matter of time before your prized bottle leaves the amplifier. (no
matter what tube you are using)

Most of the lurkers here pay attention to what's getting said without
posting. Most of them will NEVER build their own amps, but are curious
regarding what the "experienced guys" are up to. For sure most will never
build an amp with a tube with handles. It takes considerably more
experience to keep 6KV tidy than it does 3KV.

SO this constant recommendation from some that such and such tube with
handles are so much a better value than an 8877 or other tube is HOOWIE for
the guy who hasn’t built say 10 amps in his past.

I'm sure if I last long enough where senility sets in hard, I'll run a
"truck" tube instead. The 8877 is a finesse type device. And I own a pile
of amps running them.

BOB DD

On Jan 20, 2007, at 5:27 AM, pentalab wrote:

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

Especially when you figure in the
problems you get with paralleling multiple tubes....

2x to 4x the feedback-C is a good thing . . . . . if you need an
oscillator.

### which is exactly why u stick in one suppressor.... PER TUBE !

Using the same wattage R-supp, two single-R-supp VHF suppressors in series provide superior cooling to R-supp than than a single VHF suppressor using two R-supps in parallel.

cheers, Mr. __"X"____?

not enjoy being QRMed. As I understand it, the Fuehrer of AMPS

himself, W8JI, was building an 8171.

### well he does have a 160-10m YC-156 on his website. He claims
it's a... "medical amplifier". At least the rest of us aren't
BS'ers'. 10 kw out cw can make that 160m array of his really
honk.

** Indeed. However, if Tom built an 8171 amp that delivers 15 - 18, I doubt he would say anything about it publicly.

Without a major mod, the Plywood Box will not do 11m/10m.

### real major mod.

** 20m - 10m, trifilar 1:9 grid xfmr; #10awg grid roller-L; add 3/4" Cu tubing, 0.7uH tank-L; three GH-1s in parallel for T/R switching. However, when 10m isn't open, a 20db amp is a dead fish.

I have a call, but since I flaunt > 11 meter high power

operation, it behooves me to keep it under wraps.

Why ? I was the first Ham on the West Coast to admit to running

a tetrode with handles, and the only people who got upset and
wrote letters to the FCC were contesters who ran tetrodes with
handles and claimed to be absolutely, positively, 100% legal.

### well, I guess that makes the contester's... "hypocrites". I
was told back in the late 70's.. early 1980... that an ex prez of
the ARRL... some fellow from W0 land... used to run 10 kw in the
60's. AES tells me they sell 10 kw slugs like popcorn...... so
somebody's.. "boilin oil"

** -- or heating lots of air.

...

cheerz, Jim.

R. L. Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

Especially when you figure in the
problems you get with paralleling multiple tubes....

2x to 4x the feedback-C is a good thing . . . . . if you need an
oscillator.

### which is exactly why u stick in one suppressor.... PER TUBE !

cheers, Mr. __"X"____?

not enjoy being QRMed. As I understand it, the Fuehrer of

AMPS

himself, W8JI, was building an 8171.

### well he does have a 160-10m YC-156 on his website. He claims
it's a... "medical amplifier". At least the rest of us aren't
BS'ers'. 10 kw out cw can make that 160m array of his really
honk.

Without a major mod, the Plywood Box will not do 11m/10m.

### real major mod.

I have a call, but since I flaunt > 11 meter high power

operation, it behooves me to keep it under wraps.

Why ? I was the first Ham on the West Coast to admit to running

a tetrode with handles, and the only people who got upset and
wrote letters to the FCC were contesters who ran tetrodes with
handles and claimed to be absolutely, positively, 100% legal.

### well, I guess that makes the contester's... "hypocrites". I
was told back in the late 70's.. early 1980... that an ex prez of
the ARRL... some fellow from W0 land... used to run 10 kw in the
60's. AES tells me they sell 10 kw slugs like popcorn...... so
somebody's.. "boilin oil"

### BTW... NONE of my tubes have handles. I supose if one is
creative.... you could always hacksaw off the handles... and retweak
the paint job on the side of the tube. Sorta like the world's
biggest 3CX-1000A7.

Later... Jim VE7RF

Thanks!

ur welcome, Mr. __"X"_____ ?

--Toll_Free

On Jan 18, 2007, at 8:57 AM, 1800 Toll Free wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 04:22:37 -0800, R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

On Jan 17, 2007, at 4:04 PM, 1800 Toll Free wrote:

The 8877 is a waste of money, for the dollars they choose to demand
for it.



For the price of a new 8877 you can purchase an 8170 and socket
on the
used / pull market.

However, an 8877 is easier to put on 10m/11m than an 8170.

That quantifies the 'builders' vs the 'tech'.

The builder hasn't a clue as to why this part goes here, just that
someone
told him. If he starts getting oscillations or any other problem
in the
8170, he hasn't a clue as to why. It gets shipped here, fixed, and
he is
the hero.

chortle

The 8170 is harder to put most any place.

Except that with a tetrode-with-handles, where input-Q matters mot, a
continuous-coverage roller-coil tuned, grid circuit is do-able.

It has tons more gain.
However, ditch the intermediate amp you need with the triodes, and the
cost / watt ratio really goes down...

Good point. The original "Plywood Box" 8170 amp cost c. 9.5? per
watt, thanks to parts donations from my friends.

Especially when you figure in the
problems you get with paralleling multiple tubes....

2x to 4x the feedback-C is a good thing . . . . . if you need an
oscillator.

As someone else had
pointed out, good luck getting a "really" matched pair of 3CX1500?
s ...

Myself, I like to blow the 3CX1000 really hard.

For about the same amount of money you can get all the parts..
Sure, your
power xformer will cost a bit more for the anode voltage, but you
will
have a lot more life out of the tube / amp.

Good point, and, as an added FREE bonus, it's instant-on.

cheers, Mr. ______?

And since your pumping 14kw out of the 8170, and not trying to pump
7 or
more kw out of the pair of 8877s, everything is happier... Except the
technician.

7kW out / 11.6kW in with a of a pair of 8877s is walking on thin ice.

As to whom I am, We've been in contact before. I ran across you on
amps
more than a decade ago, and you, not knowing it, enabled me to
build my
first 8170 amp.

Good news. The 8170 project was the dénouement of my amp-education.
After I got everything figured out and working, I was determined to
pass along what I learned to other Hams who enjoyed building and did
not enjoy being QRMed. As I understand it, the Fuehrer of AMPS
himself, W8JI, was building an 8171.

Didn't do plywood, but... Also have a pretty kick ass
SB220 that between you, K5PRO and Dennis Ostrowski is a hot little
item as
well. Long live the TS440 :)

The SB-220 can never be kick-ass anything, but it makes a decent
driver for the 20-out 8160.

I'm also a friend of Dino's. He tried to get me to purchase the
plywood
box when it was for sale not too long ago.

Without a major mod, the Plywood Box will not do 11m/10m.

Bought a house instead.

Just call me Free..... Toll_Free lol. I have a call, but since I
flaunt
11 meter high power operation, it behooves me to keep it under wraps.

Why ? I was the first Ham on the West Coast to admit to running a
tetrode with handles, and the only people who got upset and wrote
letters to the FCC were contesters who ran tetrodes with handles and
claimed to be absolutely, positively, 100% legal.

Thanks!

ur welcome, Mr. _______ ?

--Toll_Free

The glass tubes aren't being made anymore.... At least, not
affordably.
That means it's a waste of money / time to build around them.

It's a reflection of state of the art, or hollow state, if you
will. the
russian tubes are being used because they are cheap, not because of
any
big difference in technology.


This, of course, is just ramblings from some stupid CBer :)


--Toll_Free







On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:28:50 -0800, alphasxsignal
<videorov@...>
wrote:

Seems to be alot of hams going to the GU84B tubes for their Big
amps over the 8877 or even the old 4-1000.

--



*Ratings are for transistors, tubes have guidelines*



Yahoo! Groups Links

R. L. Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org

--



*Ratings are for transistors, tubes have guidelines*



Yahoo! Groups Links

R. L. Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org