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Re: The real benefits of running qro.
PA3DUV
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýBob,
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according to this table
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70 mm2 is AWG 2/0
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I run 2 conductors from the alternator to the
batteries /amplifiers in the trunk.
The cable is neoprene insulated welding cable, size
garden hose. Lugs are also from the welding shop. With my "old" setup the B+
voltage measured inside the Henry SS750 on the push pull amplifier board sagged
to 11.0 VDC. Mind you the voltage drop over the INTERNAL cabling including the
little 50 amp rated feedtru was?a massive 1000 millivolts.
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After measurements the teenie weenie lug on the B+
cable and the little screws on the feedtru proved to be the culprit so PE1LRF
machined 2 massive feedtru insulators for me and I fitted both the B+ and mass
cables with 8 mm lugs and 8 mm bolts.
Also I redid the B+ distribution rail inside both
the SS750 amplifiers.
With one amp I can now keep the voltage at 12 V DC
loaded with a carrier. In SSB this will be a bit better due to the lower
average?current draw.?
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Cheers, Dick
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Re: The real benefits of running mobile qro.
PA3DUV
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýBob,
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I tried the caps some years ago when I ran a single
500 watt SGC amplifier.. Yes they work, but only
at very short bursts.
With the two Henry SS750 amps @ 1 kW out each I had
to ask myself: where does the power come from.
Upgrading the alternator is not possible, the cab
forward design of my 2006 Toyota has eaten all space in the engine
compartment.?There is no way I could fit two 200 amp alternators without
major surgery.
So that leaves the 5 kW Honda genset on a bike rack
or 2 hefty 150 pound AMG batteries as the only alternative.
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Cheers, Dick
PA3DUV
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Re: The real benefits of running mobile qro.
PA3DUV
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýBob,
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The 5 inch HiQ 5-80 HP will most likely outperform
the Predator big time.
The mickey mouse 3" coil on?the Predator will
show at least 3 dB higher losses on 80 meters, not to mention 160
meters.
?
You are right that less coil is better, but there
are physical restraints on the overall length of a mobile antenna. In Europe it
stops at 4 meters over the road surface. So at the end of the day some
inductivity is needed for the loading coil, the 3 incher will loose out against
the 5 incher on the low bands.
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Concerning the 3/8 x 24 mounting bolt: so far the
HiQ 4-80 has survived 3 cars (@ a average 70 000 km/year) plus cruising speeds
of over 200 km/h on the German Autobahn, including the famous curved Sauerland
Autobahn. The only time I lost the antenna was when I was driving in the orchard
and hit a low hanging branch of an apple tree. The thread was torn out of the
antenna base, but the antenna was undamaged.
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The phenolic coil core on the Predator does not
appeal to me, I can almost smell it @ 2 kW on 80 meter. Last but not least: I
haven't seen a Predator on a US Submarine yet :-) (See picture in mobile QRO
folder)
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Cheers, Dick
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Re: The real benefits of running qro.
Robert B. Bonner
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýDick that sounds good.? You¡¯ve spent some time on the project. ? Here¡¯s my thoughts on the DC buss¡? Lead Acid Batteries don¡¯t supply much power.? They are native 12.8 VOLTS.? ?The Alternator supplies all your voltage up to 14 Volts.? When you load down the circuit past what the alternator can provide you start drawing from the batteries.? Like at a stop sign. ? If you look at wattmeters between cruising and idling you¡¯ll see what I mean. ? The car stereo guys have really made ham radio mobile better¡ ? BUY the 1/0 or 2/0 silicon stereo wire and run a positive AND A NEGATIVE back to your amplifier location.? I don¡¯t know how that compares to your 70mm2 wire?? Also ground to the chassis at the amplifier.? I was informed by the BIG mega watt stereo guys that vehicle grounds are not good enough for serious current.? I¡¯ve noticed a difference. ? I do tie in right at the batteries under the hood myself. ? Go to as large an alternator as you can get and charge your batteries under the hood.? The 2/0 wire will have very little voltage drop.? The best things for back at the amplifiers are the new 5 FARAD capacitors.? They need to be charged up very carefully.? These things are dangerous.? They look just like a battery and have terminals for the big wire right on the sides of them¡? They will charge UP TO your maximum voltage 14V and not surface charge like a battery will¡ They provide 22AMP HOURS at full voltage!? Where a battery sags down to 12.8 as soon as the alternator loads the big caps slowly discharge from full voltage. ? YES these are all tricks I¡¯ve learned from these crazy stereo guys.? They¡¯ve got shoot out trophies from the big national audio shootouts.? Things like 163 DB loud stereos in a car stuff.? They are drawing like 500 amps or more in a mobile unit. ? I also run the radio separate on another 4 gauge run from under the hood.? I use all the fancy stereo fuses and distribution blocks. ? I ALSO use all these things in my shack to distribute power around my operating desk from a pair of ASTRON RM-70¡¯s.? These stereo guys are great, except when they drive down my street at midnight. ? BOB DD ? From: ham_amplifiers@... [mailto:ham_amplifiers@...] On Behalf Of PA3DUV
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 6:21 AM To: ham_amplifiers@... Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [ham_amplifiers] Re: The real benefits of running qro. ? Hi Bob, ? Thanks for the info. Nice to know that others are working in similar projects. ? Please find some pictures in the photo-section showing my 2 kW mobile setup. I use two Henry SS750 amps, into a 4 kW combiner. The antenna is a HiQ 5-80 HP version. To remote control the amps I build a break-out box, so I can use one remote control?on 2 amplifiers. Two 70 mm2 neoprene welding cables??are used to supply the DC to the amplifiers. The power supply needs to be beefed up. I will install two 230 Ah 70 kg AGM batteries in the trunk. The current two 60 Ah are barely enough to power one SS750, together with the alternator. A single ?SS750 delivers 1100 watt output on 40-160 meters when connected to a stiff DC rail. ? Cheers, Dick PA3DUV ? ? ?
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Re: The real benefits of running mobile qro.
Robert B. Bonner
Lets not confuse HI-Q brand name with HI-Q Coils.
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I reviewed the HI-Q Antenna info early this AM. The wire is light duty in the coil compared to my PREDATOR and the base mounting bolt is 3/8" YIKES! Mine has a trailer hitch mounting bolt and needs no guying. With a 3" mast there isn't any flex either. Sure its ugly and gets looks.. Works like a push bar, hahahaha. The antenna in a mobile is the absolute most important thing. Just little improvements go a long way. My current config is 5' long standard unit with a 1' mast, 16" cap hat and the 5' whip. It is 2' off the ground on my mount at about bumper height in front. I've played with longer whips. The key is using as little coil as possible. As I added cap hats etc.. The coil turns went down. Moved hat up, coil turns went down. Signal has always gone up. I'm going to order up a new custom length 6' main unit, use a 2' mast extension and 16" hat with a 4' whip stinger. Once the antenna is perfected, then it takes power. Just small changes make big differences in a mobile. You wouldn't think going from 100 watts to 500 would make such a big difference, but it is like from not being there to armchair copy. Any additional power from there is just gravy. But that first 400 watts is critical. BOB DD -----Original Message-----
From: ham_amplifiers@... [mailto:ham_amplifiers@...] On Behalf Of Peter Voelpel Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 9:46 AM To: ham_amplifiers@... Subject: RE: [ham_amplifiers] Re: The real benefits of running mobile qro. HI-Q traps and HI-Q loading coils are completely different animals. There is not any reason why a loading coil should melt when wound with reasonable wire size 73 Peter ________________________________ From: ham_amplifiers@... [mailto:ham_amplifiers@...] On Behalf Of Dick Sent: Montag, 8. Januar 2007 13:26 To: ham_amplifiers@... Subject: [ham_amplifiers] Re: The real benefits of running mobile qro. Jim, So far I haven't been able to melt the loading coil of the HiQ 5-80 centerloaded vertical on my car.
Yahoo! Groups Links |
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Re: The real benefits of running mobile qro.
On Jan 8, 2007, at 4:57 AM, PA3DUV wrote:
Dick -- Excellent R. L. Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734 r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org |
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Re: The real benefits of running mobile qro.
Peter Voelpel
HI-Q traps and HI-Q loading coils are completely different animals.
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There is not any reason why a loading coil should melt when wound with reasonable wire size 73 Peter ________________________________ From: ham_amplifiers@... [mailto:ham_amplifiers@...] On Behalf Of Dick Sent: Montag, 8. Januar 2007 13:26 To: ham_amplifiers@... Subject: [ham_amplifiers] Re: The real benefits of running mobile qro. Jim, So far I haven't been able to melt the loading coil of the HiQ 5-80 centerloaded vertical on my car.
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Re: The real benefits of running mobile qro.
PA3DUV
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýRich,
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I have a one inch corona ball on top of the center
loaded vertical.
The whip on top of the loading coil id 8 mm, the
loading coil is 5 inch diameter.
With 1000 watt carrier the loading coil gets
slightly warm, approx. +35 Celcius.?
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I had a flashed loading coil due to the fact that I
drove on the German Autobahn in wintertime, when the road was covered with salt
spray. The whole coil housing (the coil is INSIDE a huge 5 inch polycarbonate
tube) was covered with a layer of road grime mixed with road salt. That was
enough to make a nice conductivity path for the 20 000 V RF.
I was running 1000 watt SSB on 80 meters when it
happened.
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So from?that time I keep a cloth with Rainex
at hand to keep the coil clean.?My car lookes like dirt, but the coil is
shiny clean:-)
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Cheers, Dick
PA3DUV?
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Re: The real benefits of running mobile qro.
Dick -- With 6kW mobile on 80m and 40m, it might be a good idea to put a copper corona-ball atop the vertical and also to stop transmitting when in a gasoline station. good luck
On Jan 8, 2007, at 4:25 AM, Dick wrote: R. L. Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734 r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org |
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Re: The real benefits of running mobile qro.
Robert B. Bonner
If it will do that on 80 meters, I'll buy one of those antennas myself.
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Plus if you show up at Dayton, you can go to the Spaghetti Emporium with me and my buds and the dinner's on me... Take Pictures. :-) BOB DD -----Original Message-----
From: ham_amplifiers@... [mailto:ham_amplifiers@...] On Behalf Of Dick Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 6:26 AM To: ham_amplifiers@... Subject: [ham_amplifiers] Re: The real benefits of running mobile qro. Jim, So far I haven't been able to melt the loading coil of the HiQ 5-80 centerloaded vertical on my car. Obviously, with a meager 1100 watts there is no contest, but since I got the HP version I might be able to run 4 kW into that centerloaded vertical. When the weather improves a bit we will set up a test with the HiQ 5- 80 HP centerloaded vertical and my 6 kW twin GU84B amplifier. To make it a mobile station I will put my 30 kVA Iveco diesel generato on a trailing and do a little drive as well. We will try to actually burn the loading coil on the HiQ 5-80. Bets are open now, I will put 2 large size Quattro Staggioni pizzas on the fact that the 5-80 HP will survive 4 kW of key down carrier for more than 10 minuets. Anyone???? Cheers, Dick PA3DUV |
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Re: The real benefits of running qro.
Robert B. Bonner
I had spelled it out in full earlier in the post but referred to it as a
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PRED the second time. N9JMX 3" PREDATOR -----Original Message-----
From: ham_amplifiers@... [mailto:ham_amplifiers@...] On Behalf Of badgerscreek Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 6:13 AM To: ham_amplifiers@... Subject: [ham_amplifiers] Re: The real benefits of running qro. Hi Bob What kind of antenna is a "PRED" Greg |
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Re: The real benefits of running mobile qro.
Dick
Jim,
So far I haven't been able to melt the loading coil of the HiQ 5-80 centerloaded vertical on my car. Obviously, with a meager 1100 watts there is no contest, but since I got the HP version I might be able to run 4 kW into that centerloaded vertical. When the weather improves a bit we will set up a test with the HiQ 5- 80 HP centerloaded vertical and my 6 kW twin GU84B amplifier. To make it a mobile station I will put my 30 kVA Iveco diesel generato on a trailing and do a little drive as well. We will try to actually burn the loading coil on the HiQ 5-80. Bets are open now, I will put 2 large size Quattro Staggioni pizzas on the fact that the 5-80 HP will survive 4 kW of key down carrier for more than 10 minuets. Anyone???? Cheers, Dick PA3DUV --- In ham_amplifiers@..., "pentalab" <jim.thomson@...> wrote: over S- 9a Hi- Q-HF antenna.max..### HI-Q traps are precisely why traps in tapped tri band yagi's then they are toast too. The circulating current is so high.. theAL wire used gets too hot.. and melts the forms.xfmr... for the 11m mobile ops!500 w. Going from 100w to 500w is 7 db.. a huge amount. On ssbone guy who had his big tube amp fired up in his mobile.... and goingdown the highway... killed the ignition dead in a van that was in thenext lane over. He did it again to a few more vehicles[including onecop] while stopped at red lights !.. a real hoot. |
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Re: The real benefits of running qro.
PA3DUV
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHi Bob,
?
Thanks for the info. Nice to know that others are
working in similar projects.
?
Please find some pictures in the photo-section
showing my 2 kW mobile setup.
I use two Henry SS750 amps, into a 4 kW
combiner.
The antenna is a HiQ 5-80 HP version. To remote
control the amps I build a break-out box, so I can use one remote
control?on 2 amplifiers. Two 70 mm2 neoprene welding cables??are
used to supply the DC to the amplifiers.
The power supply needs to be beefed up. I will
install two 230 Ah 70 kg AGM batteries in the trunk. The current two 60 Ah are
barely enough to power one SS750, together with the alternator.
A single ?SS750 delivers 1100 watt output on
40-160 meters when connected to a stiff DC rail.
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Cheers, Dick
PA3DUV
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Re: The real benefits of running qro.
Robert B. Bonner
I HAD TWO SGC POWER CUBES, over.. Work good but will trip out for anything
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fast, always resetting them. The remote control heads are the only way. Have new larger amp plan going together soon for the "new" pickup. Recently sold the remote head 706 and going to mount a 756PRO II. Between a couple of my friends, we're having a mobile war. Total keep up with the Joneses. One upped the anti when he bought one of those Chinese 4KW generators to mount on the rear of his SUV on a hitch mount. I have a 5KW Makita I'm considering mounting in the pickup bed next to the auxiliary fuel tank. :-) Its sort of a pain when sitting in an RV park at 10PM idling the truck or running a generator to keep power to the amp. Would be better if could just jumper over to park power easily / amp runs full power on 120/240. My buddies and I have all gone from Texas Bug Catchers to the big Predators. My bug arced and caught on fire driving in the rain. Burning plastic parts were hitting the windshield and it was too hard to change bands while driving. Could never get my wife to change the taps while moving. It's a real pain carrying a ladder in the box all the time. I have a custom front mount on my crew dually to bolt on the PRED. (I pull a fifth wheel or car trailer out the back depending on what I'm doing.) Its really easy to tune now, just look through the coil cover and see how much coil is exposed, with a little experience I can get within a couple clicks every time. My reasonable goal is consistent-reliable 1500 watts out mobile. The next problem to overcome is amplifier heating. I don't want blowers running in my ears. BOB DD -----Original Message-----
From: ham_amplifiers@... [mailto:ham_amplifiers@...] On Behalf Of pentalab Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 3:32 AM To: ham_amplifiers@... Subject: [ham_amplifiers] Re: The real benefits of running qro. --- In ham_amplifiers@..., "bendeguz007" <cgyenes@...> wrote: 9 Hi- Q-HF antenna. ### HI-Q traps are precisely why traps in tapped tri band yagi's usually melt ! My buddy's TA-33 jr... with just a sb-220.... looked like u hit it with a propane torch... and all the fiberglass coil forms were all melted. The new mosely pro- series tribander's.. allthough rated at "5 kw" will handle 600 W ccs max.. then they are toast too. The circulating current is so high.. the AL wire used gets too hot.. and melts the forms. ### If u want real hi power mobile... 1/2 the problem is just generating it. Of course Dahl makes a special 3 phase plate xfmr... for the 11m mobile ops! ### The bare min u require for semi reliable 80-40m operation is 500 w. Going from 100w to 500w is 7 db.. a huge amount. On ssb that's easy... since the average current is so low. ### Like Doc Bob sez.... then u gotta debug for RFI etc. I knew one guy who had his big tube amp fired up in his mobile.... and going down the highway... killed the ignition dead in a van that was in the next lane over. He did it again to a few more vehicles[including one cop] while stopped at red lights !.. a real hoot. ### There are loads of those IM Italy class C distortion box's out there... mobile. The SGC 500w unit does an easy 800 w. later... Jim VE7RF Yahoo! Groups Links |
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Re: The real benefits of running qro.
pentalab
--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "bendeguz007" <cgyenes@...>
wrote: 9 Hi- Q-HF antenna. ### HI-Q traps are precisely why traps in tapped tri band yagi's usually melt ! My buddy's TA-33 jr... with just a sb-220.... looked like u hit it with a propane torch... and all the fiberglass coil forms were all melted. The new mosely pro- series tribander's.. allthough rated at "5 kw" will handle 600 W ccs max.. then they are toast too. The circulating current is so high.. the AL wire used gets too hot.. and melts the forms. ### If u want real hi power mobile... 1/2 the problem is just generating it. Of course Dahl makes a special 3 phase plate xfmr... for the 11m mobile ops! ### The bare min u require for semi reliable 80-40m operation is 500 w. Going from 100w to 500w is 7 db.. a huge amount. On ssb that's easy... since the average current is so low. ### Like Doc Bob sez.... then u gotta debug for RFI etc. I knew one guy who had his big tube amp fired up in his mobile.... and going down the highway... killed the ignition dead in a van that was in the next lane over. He did it again to a few more vehicles[including one cop] while stopped at red lights !.. a real hoot. ### There are loads of those IM Italy class C distortion box's out there... mobile. The SGC 500w unit does an easy 800 w. later... Jim VE7RF |
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Re: God Complex
craxd
--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "Dr. Robert
Bonner" <rbonner@...> wrote: Implications of Running Power.Cough!! Pull the QRO plug on Joe Scarborough, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Pat Robertson, and Jerry Falwell? Just dreaming....... Best, LOL Will |
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Re: The real benefits of running qro.
Bill Turner
ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
On Sun, 7 Jan 2007 12:17:22 -0600, "Robert B. Bonner" <rbonner@...> wrote: I was thinking the other day... I wonder how hard it would be to build an------------ REPLY FOLLOWS ------------ I would hope instead of "hello radio" it would be "hello officer". Bill, W6WRT |
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Re: The real benefits of running qro.
Robert B. Bonner
SO WHAT, now you have EXTREAME QRO amp, they hear you: 200 dB over S-9
BUT you have NO antenna to HEAR them! I'd rather hear them, then talk to them with my 100W mobile with a Hi- Q-HF antenna. Charlie, VA7HIQ/W6 Charlie, you make a wrong turn on the 405? Where's your amplifier? Dreams, Fantasy's and Desires? It's just not acceptable to say I've done it all until they flip the lid shut for the last time. I've got 30+ years mobile. You aren't really making RF until your AM radio's front end has blown out, you've made the electronic fuel control on your diesel pickup "Shut OFF" or backfire while towing on the freeway, and your trailer brake controller needs RFI protection to keep from locking up the brakes every time you talk on the radio. The rig has dual batteries but have also added an extra alternator just incase to keep things up to snuff. You pull up to a toll booth on the Jersey Turnpike and smack all the light fixtures with your antenna bent over about 5 feet... The toll booth lady looks you in the eye and says, THAT'S NOT A LEGAL HEIGHT ON THE TURNPIKE and you answer, OH that's for measuring bridge heights, I'm a contractor working for the state do you want to see my authorization? Turning and mumbling its right here somewhere... Hey, It's totally adjustable, see look watch it go up and down, whirrrrrrrr.... Pull out of the booth, yeah standby I have to retune... You wouldn't believe what I had to do this time guys... Any mobile less than 1KW output and shorter than a 14 foot tall antenna is just more QRM on the band. Yeah you can hear them all right but you are the same guy they say... WHO'S the MOBILE IN THERE? Try again.. I'd rather have them say... "YOU'RE MOBILE?" WOW... My mobile has always been louder than most 100 watt home stations. To do mobile right, you take an acceptable vehicle platform, install 200 amp wiring, the optimum antenna, the best rig and the biggest amplifier. You then work all the bugs out of the vehicle until it tolerates what you need to do for radio. You can never run ENOUGH power mobile and that takes an amplifier. That's REAL RADIO. Semper Amplio, BOB DD |
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Re: The real benefits of running qro.
--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "Robert B. Bonner"
<rbonner@...> wrote: build an X-2159 1 megawatt amplifier for 80 meters? I wonder what it wouldbe like to be the first 1 megawatt ham? "HELLO RADIO" I bet the FCCwouldn't violate me, they'd give me an award for creative thinking and justtell say, "OK BOB turn it off"the annals of ham radio history. Now wouldn't that be fun? 60 over ninecoast to coast during the daytime...build it? I'd go out in the middle of the state, call up the power utilityand have a sub station installed and go to work....Have a nice Sunday guys.[mailto:ham_amplifiers@...] On Behalf Of Garrymore of this. It feels good!!!!lawyers hoursand doctors etc. As you can see a QRO amp pays for itself. 30 qro.councelling @ 200 Euro/h pays for a 10 kW+ amplifier.amplifier. thats likeall. years.pushing a lawnmower aimlessly about.. or punching holes in andHowever i still fire it up into a dummy load, and i still try and .."boiling oil"> improve its circuits. Does that make sense probably not. needs of a No> communications circuit. switch,,,need to mess about trying to crack a pile up... hit the summerin/out in 5 seconds every time. You BECOME the pile up. hastime static. shuta poor receiving location! kwoff the natural gas furnace and natural gas fireplace... since shutbaseboard heater. Run some kw's.... and baseboard heater gets wouldoff... so it's a wash. going atsit there in Colo... and have a 1500 w CCS electric heater merits.their feet in winter time in basement. So u see... qro has stress.. u game...feel like u just beat collins/henry/harris, at their own eyedlots of satisfaction, ur friends are all impressed..esp wide 8 xcomputer geeks, and it's fun to watch plate meter's bouncing havehomes in winter. Ur girlfriend will be dully impressed. You 25more power than the local college FM station. Ur friends with with a 2watt push pull tube audio amps are really impressed, [esp powerx4-1000 amp.. and a window, and tubes cherry red] U have more proud.than 99.99% of the hams on the planet. Ur mother would be ops arePundits think you are actually a 'broadcast engineer'. 11m Whoreally impressed. You can dim all the lights on your street. theirelse can say they actually smoked the pole-pig in front of forhome.... and plunged the entire street into darkness. No need wirescounselling or self medication. You are more focused, and have groceryattached. People stay clear of you in aisle 6 of your local likestore. You can casually mention stuff at the local hamfest... off urhow you set the tree's on fire.. and blew the end insulator's oncedipole. You can give a real Corona demo late at night. You SO WHAT, now you have EXTREAME QRO amp, they hear you: 200 dB over S-9melted RG-17 on 10m. QST will never publish your schematic. BUT you have NO antenna to HEAR them! I'd rather hear them, then talk to them with my 100W mobile with a Hi- Q-HF antenna. Charlie, VA7HIQ/W6 |
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Re: The real benefits of running qro.
Harold Mandel
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHey B?B, ? From the most recent go around here about amplifiers you wouldn¡¯t need a substation as long as you didn¡¯t hold the key down in tune-up longer than let¡¯s say 8.3 microseconds¡. ? You could probably get away with putting a penny in the fuse holder and just look out the window at your pole pig and ¡°tune for the most steam¡± coming out its vent. ? Hal ? [snip] [snippety-snip]
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