Will,
?
Thanks for the input.
After reading all the post on this subject I will
finish the power supply as follows:
?
8 x 2 volt 230 Ah cells feeding the amplifier
stack
?
16 volt 3 stage charger, input voltage 230 V
AC
?
12 VDC => 230 VAC sine wave inverter to supply a
limited 230 AC?for the charger ?while driving
?
an external 230 VAC connector on my trailer hitch
so I can charge the batteries when the car is on the driveway
?
A better alternative would be to install a second
16 volt DC alternator, but there is simply no space for a second
alternator.
?
?
Cheers, Dick
PA3DUV
??
?
?
?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 2:00
AM
Subject: [ham_amplifiers] Re:hi power
mobile
--- In ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com,
"pentalab" ...>
wrote:
>
> --- In ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com,
1800 Toll Free
> > wrote:
> >
>
> It's kind of funny watching the thread about the mobile
amplifiers
> and
> > voltage requirements.
>
> ##### I have
zero experience with it. I was just waiting for
you
> to come out
of the wood work.... since I knew you guys had this
down
> pat...
and was all old news. The deep cycle communications
> batteries work
pretty good.
Right now, they're running those yellow top batteries with
the spiral
cells. They claim these to be the best. Also, there's really no
limit
to the batteries that you parallel together to get the power
required
you need. The more batteries, the longer you can run. I've seen
the
big 24V batteries used in diesel rigs too ran in these set ups. The
ones you want have the largest amp-hour ratings.
>
> ###
I also read in an old QST... where they would use 2 x
> batteries in
series.... like those used in golf carts..... but one
> was 6 V... and
the other was 8 V. [didn't even know u could get
> deep cycle
batteries... big ones... in 6 + 8 V ] Then ur car
> regulator would
charge em to 14 .3 V..... then with engine OFF....
> ur small
706-mk-2-G would last way longer. That setup was also
> used in some
Field day event's.
>
>
>
>
> > They use
a charging system consisting of a 24 volt alternator,
and
> run
> > parallel / series combos of standard car batteries (or standard
> and deep
> > cycle, if they are smart) to have a 24 volt
electric system.
One
> > alternator, and a pair of batteries
will power quite a large
> system, as
>
> ### Don't some
of em use train alternator's ??? Think they
> were split stator, dual
rotor.... or split rotor, dual stator...
> made by Neville Leece.... at
1000 A per stator ?? Or was this
> for the tube setups ??
They'll use like 6 of the Leece Neville alternators under the hood to
power the big solid state amps. Some have used generators that can
provide 115/230 Vac too ran off the belt.
>
> ### I still
haven't seen any detailed website on this hi power
> mobile stuff.
Trying to generate the power is a huge project in
> itself. RFI, etc...
Rf decks... is another issue. You are
> right... hams are just trying
to reinvent the wheel.
Right, not a lot has been published on this as
it was all done sort
of under the table away from the FCC.
>
> Later... Jim VE7RF
>
>
> > --Toll_Free
>
>
>
Best,
Will
|
Re: Tom's Tubes - Tom Hix, W4TH, SK
Per information posted to the South East DX Club reflector yesterday, Jim, K4JRS (k4jrs@...) is liquidating the inventory of Tom's Tubes. Information from another source says that Tom's home has already been cleared and Jim is simply disposing of the remaining inventory for the family. 73, ... Joe, W4TV --- In ham_amplifiers@..., Tony King - W4ZT <w4zt-060920@...> wrote:
For those that haven't heard...
Tom Hix, W4TH, the owner of Tom's Tubes, passed away in late December.
He had been in the hospital for quite some time and his tube business
had been on hold as his web page had indicated.
There is no word on whether the business will continue under new
management.
73, Tony W4ZT
|
On Jan 10, 2007, at 3:33 AM, badgerscreek wrote: I think those Yellow Top Batteries are called Optima Batteries?
I dont know why nobody is concerned about having their brains so
close to the antenna? I mean sitting in the near field of the antenna
running 1 or more kilowatts at the higher frequencies would have me
worried. Maybe the adrenalin rush is more potent than worrying about
your health, or maybe theres no danger? ** In the early 1960s I used to work at Raytheon, Point Mugu. Bill Hunter, W6YK, worked in the engineering division. On cold mornings, he would warm his hands on the 300w X-band doppler radar. Bill did not die young. ... R. L. Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734 r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org
|
--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "pentalab" <jim.thomson@...> wrote:
--- In ham_amplifiers@..., 1800 Toll Free
<TollFree1800@> wrote:
It's kind of funny watching the thread about the mobile
amplifiers and
voltage requirements. ##### I have zero experience with it. I was just waiting for you to come out of the wood work.... since I knew you guys had this down pat... and was all old news. The deep cycle communications
batteries work pretty good. Right now, they're running those yellow top batteries with the spiral cells. They claim these to be the best. Also, there's really no limit to the batteries that you parallel together to get the power required you need. The more batteries, the longer you can run. I've seen the big 24V batteries used in diesel rigs too ran in these set ups. The ones you want have the largest amp-hour ratings.
### I also read in an old QST... where they would use 2 x
batteries in series.... like those used in golf carts..... but one
was 6 V... and the other was 8 V. [didn't even know u could get
deep cycle batteries... big ones... in 6 + 8 V ] Then ur car
regulator would charge em to 14 .3 V..... then with engine OFF....
ur small 706-mk-2-G would last way longer. That setup was also
used in some Field day event's.
They use a charging system consisting of a 24 volt alternator,
and run
parallel / series combos of standard car batteries (or standard and deep
cycle, if they are smart) to have a 24 volt electric system. One alternator, and a pair of batteries will power quite a large system, as
### Don't some of em use train alternator's ??? Think they
were split stator, dual rotor.... or split rotor, dual stator...
made by Neville Leece.... at 1000 A per stator ?? Or was this
for the tube setups ??
They'll use like 6 of the Leece Neville alternators under the hood to power the big solid state amps. Some have used generators that can provide 115/230 Vac too ran off the belt.
### I still haven't seen any detailed website on this hi power
mobile stuff. Trying to generate the power is a huge project in
itself. RFI, etc... Rf decks... is another issue. You are
right... hams are just trying to reinvent the wheel.
Right, not a lot has been published on this as it was all done sort of under the table away from the FCC.
Later... Jim VE7RF
--Toll_Free
Best, Will
|
--- In ham_amplifiers@..., PA3DUV <pa3duv@...> wrote:
Will,
How does a series regulator for 300 amps look like?
The efficiency from such a regulator seems to questionable, the > >
voltage difference x current is obviously dissipated and turned > >
into heat. ([22 loaded - 16] x 300 = 1800 watt)
The largest one I made and sold was a 200 amp. I designed a 300 and 400 amp but never built one as I never had an order for one over 200 amps. Anyhow, the ones I built used 10 pass transistors connected in parallel (I forget the part number but they had a TO-3 case), which had a maximum dissapation rating of 300 watts each, and a 30 amp current rating running in the safe area at the specified voltage. These were driven from a variable regulator circuit. They were mounted on a large heatsink I had made from sheet aluminum bent into C channels where one was slightly narrower than the other so they stacked together making the fins. They were stacked up to make a base about 3/8" thick. I'd have to look at the prints for the other dmensions like width and length sense it's been a while building one. Your correct, there's heat generated by the pass transistors as it works the same as any series pass power supply. As was mentioned by another, FET's can be used here also. The pass elements I used were NPN transistors. Each had a 0.1 ohm balancing resistor in series with each emitter lead. The charging circuit was switched by using starter solenoids rated at 400 amps each. The RF keyer turned the regulator on then keyed the amp afterwards so the amp would have power before the RF got to it. This was done by a simple relay timing. For a ham rig, you can do this without a RF keyer of course using the keying from the rig like on running an external amp. The problem of the switching here though creates a slight delay after the mic is keyed before you can broadcast of about 1/2 to 1 second due to the speed of the starter solenoids and relays. The regulator has to come on and supply the amps source voltage before the amps RF relay closes. So the regulator keys the amps RF relay. The regulator box and batteries were mounted in the trunk or in the back of a Bronco, Suburban, or van. The remote that mounted under the dash had an on/off switch, volt meter, and voltage adjustment pot on it.
Best, Will
|
--- In ham_amplifiers@..., 1800 Toll Free <TollFree1800@...> wrote:
It's kind of funny watching the thread about the mobile amplifiers
and voltage requirements. ##### I have zero experience with it. I was just waiting for you to come out of the wood work.... since I knew you guys had this down pat... and was all old news. The deep cycle communications batteries work pretty good. ### I also read in an old QST... where they would use 2 x batteries in series.... like those used in golf carts..... but one was 6 V... and the other was 8 V. [didn't even know u could get deep cycle batteries... big ones... in 6 + 8 V ] Then ur car regulator would charge em to 14 .3 V..... then with engine OFF.... ur small 706-mk-2-G would last way longer. That setup was also used in some Field day event's. They use a charging system consisting of a 24 volt alternator, and run parallel / series combos of standard car batteries (or standard and deep cycle, if they are smart) to have a 24 volt electric system. One
alternator, and a pair of batteries will power quite a large system, as ### Don't some of em use train alternator's ??? Think they were split stator, dual rotor.... or split rotor, dual stator... made by Neville Leece.... at 1000 A per stator ?? Or was this for the tube setups ?? ### I still haven't seen any detailed website on this hi power mobile stuff. Trying to generate the power is a huge project in itself. RFI, etc... Rf decks... is another issue. You are right... hams are just trying to reinvent the wheel. Later... Jim VE7RF --Toll_Free
|
Re: The real benefits of running mobile qro.
Phil,
?
On next occasion I will open the SS750 amp and take
some pictures.
?
What I did to reduce the voltage drop is the
following:
?
1. replaced the feedthru with a larger one, and use
a M8 brass bolt with siver sodered brass nut + washers to get the B+ into the
chassis.
?
2. replaced the tiny 5 mm lug on the B+ wire with a
large 8 mm lug
?
3. beefed up the B+ wire to the breaker and from
the breaker to the relay
?
4. the B+ wires to the 4 PA modules are connected
to a brass strip on the relay.
In one of the amps these wires were clamped into
the brass strip with a small steel set screw. I have removed the set screws and
crimped/soldered lugs to the 4 B+ wires and have clamped them top/bottom on the
brass strip. This has increase the contact surface considerably.
?
5. The aluminum angle strip (backpanel inside)
?where the ground wires terminate is now connected to the backpanel with a
larger M8 bolt, this bolt is also used to connect the - cable on the outside of
the backpanel.
?
Cheers, Dick
?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 1:28
AM
Subject: [ham_amplifiers] Re: The real
benefits of running qro.
> After measurements the teenie weenie lug on the B+ cable and the
little screws on the feedtru proved to be the culprit so PE1LRF
machined 2 massive feedtru insulators for me and I fitted both the B+
and mass cables with 8 mm lugs and 8 mm bolts.
> Also I redid the B+
distribution rail inside both the SS750
amplifiers.
> With one amp I
can now keep the voltage at 12 V DC loaded with a
carrier. In SSB this
will be a bit better due to the lower average
current draw.
>
> Cheers, Dick
Dick,
Please expand on all the mods you did to
your SS-750. I would like to
fix mine also. Any pix, diagrams, etc.
appreciated. I did the feed-thru
mod already...waiting to see what you did
on the interior of the amp.
(((73)))
Phil Clements,
K5PC
|
Will,
?
How does a series regulator for 300 amps look
like?
The efficiency from such a regulator seems to
questionable, the voltage difference x current is obviously dissipated and
turned into heat. ([22 loaded?- 16] x 300 =
1800 watt)
?
?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 8:09
AM
Subject: [ham_amplifiers] Re: hi power
mobile
--- In ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com,
"pentalab" ...>
wrote:
>
> One would
think the logical way to go, would be a 24-26 v
system..
> instead
of 12 v ?
>
> You could use something like 2 x cat batteries in
series.... with
a
> 28 V... 3 phase alternator.
We made
some tube mobiles this way back in the late 70's to early
80's. You took
the 14V 3 phase AC and powered a HV transformer with
it. The large tube
amps they use on those 11 meter shoot outs are set
up this way. Galaxy
Transformer up in New Jersey makes the
transformers for several amp
builders.
> You could still run the vehicle on the
> 12v from
one battery. .... or run half the car's 12 v stuff on
one
>
battery... and the other half of the vehicle's 12 v stuff.... on
the
> other battery.
>
> Even a 50 v system.. with 4 x
batteries in series would work.
Yup, and you have way less current draw
meaning you don't have to
handle all that large battery cable to hook a 12
volt amp up.
I also made what was called a motor maul which is really a
voltage
regulator that ties to 2 banks of 12 V batteries in series. It
works
from RF keying. During Idle, the batteries are in parallel and are
being charged by the alternator. When it's keyed by the RF sensing
circuit, it places the batteries in series making 24 V then runs that
through a variable series regulator. When using 2SC2879 transistors,
you can run them at around 18-19 Vdc and get Mo-Power from them and
they run just fine. At 12 Vdc, it cuts the power by about 1/4.
Heavier
heatsink is recommended though when running one class AB at
18
Vdc.
>
>
> Later... Jim
VE7RF
>
Best,
Will
|
I hadn't seen Will's post yet when I made my reply.
But, yeah, what he said.
--Toll_Free
|
It's kind of funny watching the thread about the mobile amplifiers and voltage requirements.
Here, we learned long ago (on 11 meters) how to fix this problem.
The 11 meter crowd calls it a "dead motor maul", and it's nothing more than a bank of pass transistors (or mosfets, if the builder knows what he's doing) that act as a regulator.
They use a charging system consisting of a 24 volt alternator, and run parallel / series combos of standard car batteries (or standard and deep cycle, if they are smart) to have a 24 volt electric system. One alternator, and a pair of batteries will power quite a large system, as long as the number of active devices in the regulator is up to the job.
This allows you to do a number of things, but vary the collector voltage from < 11 volts to > 20 volts is possible. Run a regulator to the bias section of the amp to keep bias in check and runaway in check, and you can run 16 volts on the collectors easily.
I have a 12 volt 16X2SC2879 amplifier that produces > 2400 watts PEP at 15 volts. This is a bootleg cb amplifier produced by Messenger years ago. It has a simple 10 meter filter on the output, which I can't measure the effectiveness of due to lack of equipment. Stock, it ran > 1 volt of bias on the base of the transistors, and would toast them at > 14 volts (like, a stiff charging system, with long periods of keydown, here's another 300 dollars in transistors). I redid the bias circuit with different diodes (a diode feeding / clamping each pair of transistors) and a 12 volt regulator with a pair of pass transistors feeding the bias regulator. This keeps things a lot better running higher Vcoll than afforded with the stock "regulated" system of nearly any amplifier.
--Toll_Free
|
--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "pentalab" <jim.thomson@...> wrote:
One would think the logical way to go, would be a 24-26 v
system.. instead of 12 v ?
You could use something like 2 x cat batteries in series.... with a 28 V... 3 phase alternator. We made some tube mobiles this way back in the late 70's to early 80's. You took the 14V 3 phase AC and powered a HV transformer with it. The large tube amps they use on those 11 meter shoot outs are set up this way. Galaxy Transformer up in New Jersey makes the transformers for several amp builders. You could still run the vehicle on the
12v from one battery. .... or run half the car's 12 v stuff on one battery... and the other half of the vehicle's 12 v stuff.... on the other battery.
Even a 50 v system.. with 4 x batteries in series would work. Yup, and you have way less current draw meaning you don't have to handle all that large battery cable to hook a 12 volt amp up. I also made what was called a motor maul which is really a voltage regulator that ties to 2 banks of 12 V batteries in series. It works from RF keying. During Idle, the batteries are in parallel and are being charged by the alternator. When it's keyed by the RF sensing circuit, it places the batteries in series making 24 V then runs that through a variable series regulator. When using 2SC2879 transistors, you can run them at around 18-19 Vdc and get Mo-Power from them and they run just fine. At 12 Vdc, it cuts the power by about 1/4. Heavier heatsink is recommended though when running one class AB at 18 Vdc.
Later... Jim VE7RF
Best, Will
|
I do the latter with my IC-2KL, 4 batteries are switched in series on
transmit and parallel on receive
73
Peter
________________________________
From: ham_amplifiers@... [mailto:ham_amplifiers@...]
On Behalf Of pentalab
You could use something like 2 x cat batteries in series.... with a
28 V... 3 phase alternator. You could still run the vehicle on the
12v from one battery. .... or run half the car's 12 v stuff on one
battery... and the other half of the vehicle's 12 v stuff.... on the
other battery.
Even a 50 v system.. with 4 x batteries in series would work.
|
On Jan 8, 2007, at 5:07 PM, pentalab wrote: One would think the logical way to go, would be a 24-26 v system..
instead of 12 v ?
You could use something like 2 x cat batteries in series.... with a
28 V... 3 phase alternator. You could still run the vehicle on the
12v from one battery. .... or run half the car's 12 v stuff on one
battery... and the other half of the vehicle's 12 v stuff.... on the
other battery.
Even a 50 v system.. with 4 x batteries in series would work. ** In Europe, Diesel vehicles are already using 42v electrics to make for easier starting in cold weather. At the current price of copper, the savings per automobile are considerable.
Later... Jim VE7RF
...
R. L. Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734 r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org
|
One would think the logical way to go, would be a 24-26 v system..
instead of 12 v ?
You could use something like 2 x cat batteries in series.... with a
28 V... 3 phase alternator. You could still run the vehicle on the
12v from one battery. .... or run half the car's 12 v stuff on one
battery... and the other half of the vehicle's 12 v stuff.... on the
other battery.
Even a 50 v system.. with 4 x batteries in series would work.
Later... Jim VE7RF
|
Re: The real benefits of running qro.
After measurements the teenie weenie lug on the B+ cable and the little screws on the feedtru proved to be the culprit so PE1LRF machined 2 massive feedtru insulators for me and I fitted both the B+ and mass cables with 8 mm lugs and 8 mm bolts. Also I redid the B+ distribution rail inside both the SS750 amplifiers. With one amp I can now keep the voltage at 12 V DC loaded with a carrier. In SSB this will be a bit better due to the lower average current draw.
Cheers, Dick
Dick, Please expand on all the mods you did to your SS-750. I would like to fix mine also. Any pix, diagrams, etc. appreciated. I did the feed-thru mod already...waiting to see what you did on the interior of the amp. (((73))) Phil Clements, K5PC
|
Re: The real benefits of running qro.
or hello power bill
Bill Turner wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
ORIGINAL MESSAGE: On Sun, 7 Jan 2007 12:17:22 -0600, "Robert B. Bonner" < rbonner@qro.com> wrote: >I was thinking the other day... I wonder how hard it would be to build an >X-2159 1 megawatt amplifier for 80 meters? I wonder what it would be like >to be the first 1 megawatt ham? "HELLO RADIO" I bet the FCC wouldn't >violate me, they'd give me an award for creative thinking and just
tell say, >"OK BOB turn it off" ------------ REPLY FOLLOWS ------------ I would hope instead of "hello radio" it would be "hello officer". Bill, W6WRT
|
Re: loading coils.. + corona effects ?
--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "Peter Voelpel" <df3kv@...> wrote:
HI-Q traps and HI-Q loading coils are completely different animals.
There is not any reason why a loading coil should melt when wound
with reasonable wire size ### Point well taken. I thought of that this am, while driving to work. Parallel resonant traps are a whole new ball game. I also noticed on some of these 80m yagis.. that use loading coils... that the aluminium coils are actually heliarc welded at each end... to reduce joint resistance to nil. ### I don't have any experience with corona balls at all. Telrex used to use corona balls on the tips of the de on the 10m models. The anti- vibration loops on some telrex yagi's would serve the same purpose. ## The 11m boys tell me on their 11m yagi's... they will either use corona balls... or use soft solid aluminium inserts on the ends of the de... with the inserts ground down to look like u know what ! ## I think the 2m moon bounce guys will grind the sharp edges off all their solid al els. ## anybody know how much power is required to produce corona on the tips of ur typ 20/15/10 m mono band yagi? What about loaded 40m yagi's ? And what about typ 160/80m GP ? And what about stuff like a shunt fed tower. ### aside from glowing blue at night... what other ill effects happens ? Do the tips of the els burn off? Now I know what Dr Bob is gonna say... just use a pair of theose 60's style copper toilet tank float balls !! Don't laugh... that's exactly what radio HCJB did on their yagi's... and severely detuned em in the process.... hence their quad inovation. Story is... HCJB was running 10 kw AM [50 kw pep] output when this all occured. ### telrex's old anti vibration tips looked like one 1/2 of a 60's kitchen eggbeater. Whatever get's used... u don't want to restrict water egress from the tips of an el... leave it open to breathe. ## who's got experience with this issue.. I don't. Later... Jim VE7RF
73
Peter
________________________________
From: ham_amplifiers@...
[mailto:ham_amplifiers@...] On Behalf Of Dick
Sent: Montag, 8. Januar 2007 13:26
To: ham_amplifiers@...
Subject: [ham_amplifiers] Re: The real benefits of running mobile qro.
Jim,
So far I haven't been able to melt the loading coil of the HiQ 5-
80 centerloaded vertical on my car.
### HI-Q traps are precisely why traps in tapped tri band yagi's
usually melt
|
Re: The real benefits of running qro.
OK rog¡? this stuff is beyond 2/0 its 750MCM two
steps up¡
?
Yeah funny how the manufacture (Henry) even lets you down¡?
1V drop inside their amp chassis.? They were never the brightest bunch
over there.? Good job on the feedthru!
?
But see that¡¯s what I am saying about using batteries,
you¡¯ll add them and still have the same voltage at the board.? You
might pick up 0.8 volt.? That in my mind isn¡¯t worth the 350 pounds
of battery and box against the fuel economy.
?
Lead acid batteries are 12.8 V.? They charge at 13.6V.?
Car electrical systems run at 13.6-14V as the alternator must provide all the
juice for the vehicle operation.
?
Now imagine what you could do with the full 14V at the
boards¡? That¡¯s our goal.? J
?
From:
ham_amplifiers@... [mailto:ham_amplifiers@...] On Behalf Of PA3DUV
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007
3:38 PM
To: ham_amplifiers@...
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Re:
[ham_amplifiers] Re: The real benefits of running qro.
?
I run 2 conductors from the alternator to the batteries
/amplifiers in the trunk.
The cable is neoprene insulated welding cable, size garden
hose. Lugs are also from the welding shop. With my "old" setup the B+
voltage measured inside the Henry SS750 on the push pull amplifier board sagged
to 11.0 VDC. Mind you the voltage drop over the INTERNAL cabling including the
little 50 amp rated feedtru was?a massive 1000 millivolts.
After measurements the teenie weenie lug on the B+ cable and
the little screws on the feedtru proved to be the culprit so PE1LRF machined 2
massive feedtru insulators for me and I fitted both the B+ and mass cables with
8 mm lugs and 8 mm bolts.
Also I redid the B+ distribution rail inside both the SS750
amplifiers.
With one amp I can now keep the voltage at 12 V DC loaded
with a carrier. In SSB this will be a bit better due to the lower
average?current draw.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January
08, 2007 7:01 PM
Subject: RE: Re:
[ham_amplifiers] Re: The real benefits of running qro.
Dick that sounds
good.? You¡¯ve spent some time on the project.
Here¡¯s
my thoughts on the DC buss¡? Lead Acid Batteries don¡¯t supply
much power.? They are native 12.8 VOLTS.? ?The Alternator
supplies all your voltage up to 14 Volts.? When you load down the circuit
past what the alternator can provide you start drawing from the
batteries.? Like at a stop sign.
If
you look at wattmeters between cruising and idling you¡¯ll see what I mean.
The
car stereo guys have really made ham radio mobile better¡
BUY
the 1/0 or 2/0 silicon stereo wire and run a positive AND A NEGATIVE back to
your amplifier location.? I don¡¯t know how that compares to your
70mm2 wire?? Also ground to the chassis at the amplifier.? I was
informed by the BIG mega watt stereo guys that vehicle grounds are not good
enough for serious current.? I¡¯ve noticed a difference.
I do
tie in right at the batteries under the hood myself.
Go to
as large an alternator as you can get and charge your batteries under the
hood.? The 2/0 wire will have very little voltage drop.? The best
things for back at the amplifiers are the new 5 FARAD capacitors.? They
need to be charged up very carefully.? These things are dangerous.?
They look just like a battery and have terminals for the big wire right on the
sides of them¡? They will charge UP TO your maximum voltage 14V and
not surface charge like a battery will¡ They provide 22AMP HOURS at full
voltage!? Where a battery sags down to 12.8 as soon as the alternator
loads the big caps slowly discharge from full voltage.
YES
these are all tricks I¡¯ve learned from these crazy stereo guys.?
They¡¯ve got shoot out trophies from the big national audio
shootouts.? Things like 163 DB loud stereos in a car stuff.? They are
drawing like 500 amps or more in a mobile unit.
I
also run the radio separate on another 4 gauge run from under the hood.? I
use all the fancy stereo fuses and distribution blocks.
I
ALSO use all these things in my shack to distribute power around my operating
desk from a pair of ASTRON RM-70¡¯s.? These stereo guys are great,
except when they drive down my street at midnight.
BOB DD
From: ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of PA3DUV
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007
6:21 AM
To: ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re:
[ham_amplifiers] Re: The real benefits of running qro.
Thanks
for the info. Nice to know that others are working in similar projects.
Please
find some pictures in the photo-section showing my 2 kW mobile setup.
I use two
Henry SS750 amps, into a 4 kW combiner.
The antenna
is a HiQ 5-80 HP version. To remote control the amps I build a break-out box,
so I can use one remote control?on 2 amplifiers. Two 70 mm2 neoprene
welding cables??are used to supply the DC to the amplifiers.
The power
supply needs to be beefed up. I will install two 230 Ah 70 kg AGM batteries in
the trunk. The current two 60 Ah are barely enough to power one SS750, together
with the alternator.
A single
?SS750 delivers 1100 watt output on 40-160 meters when connected to a
stiff DC rail.
-----
Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 12:38 PM
Subject: RE: [ham_amplifiers] Re: The real benefits of
running qro.
I HAD TWO
SGC POWER CUBES, over.. Work good but will trip out for anything
fast, always resetting them. The remote control heads are the only way.
Have new larger amp plan going together soon for the "new" pickup.
Recently
sold the remote head 706 and going to mount a 756PRO II. Between a couple
of my friends, we're having a mobile war. Total keep up with the Joneses.
One upped the anti when he bought one of those Chinese 4KW generators to
mount on the rear of his SUV on a hitch mount. I have a 5KW Makita I'm
considering mounting in the pickup bed next to the auxiliary fuel tank. :-)
Its sort of a pain when sitting in an RV park at 10PM idling the truck or
running a generator to keep power to the amp. Would be better if could just
jumper over to park power easily / amp runs full power on 120/240.
My buddies and I have all gone from Texas Bug Catchers to the big Predators.
My bug arced and caught on fire driving in the rain. Burning plastic parts
were hitting the windshield and it was too hard to change bands while
driving. Could never get my wife to change the taps while moving. It's a
real pain carrying a ladder in the box all the time.
I have a custom front mount on my crew dually to bolt on the PRED. (I pull
a fifth wheel or car trailer out the back depending on what I'm doing.) Its
really easy to tune now, just look through the coil cover and see how much
coil is exposed, with a little experience I can get within a couple clicks
every time.
My reasonable goal is consistent-reliable 1500 watts out mobile. The next
problem to overcome is amplifier heating. I don't want blowers running in
my ears.
BOB DD
-----Original Message-----
From: ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of pentalab
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 3:32 AM
To: ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ham_amplifiers] Re: The real benefits of running qro.
--- In ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com,
"bendeguz007" >
wrote:
>
>>
> SO WHAT, now you have EXTREAME QRO amp, they hear you: 200 dB over S-
9
>
> BUT you have NO antenna to HEAR them!
> I'd rather hear them, then talk to them with my 100W mobile with a
Hi- Q-HF antenna.
>
> Charlie, VA7HIQ/W6
### HI-Q traps are precisely why traps in tapped tri band yagi's
usually melt ! My buddy's TA-33 jr... with just a sb-220....
looked like u hit it with a propane torch... and all the fiberglass
coil forms were all melted. The new mosely pro- series
tribander's.. allthough rated at "5 kw" will handle 600 W ccs
max..
then they are toast too. The circulating current is so high.. the AL
wire used gets too hot.. and melts the forms.
### If u want real hi power mobile... 1/2 the problem is just
generating it. Of course Dahl makes a special 3 phase plate xfmr...
for the 11m mobile ops!
### The bare min u require for semi reliable 80-40m operation is 500
w. Going from 100w to 500w is 7 db.. a huge amount. On ssb
that's easy... since the average current is so low.
### Like Doc Bob sez.... then u gotta debug for RFI etc. I knew one
guy who had his big tube amp fired up in his mobile.... and going down
the highway... killed the ignition dead in a van that was in the next
lane over. He did it again to a few more vehicles[including one cop]
while stopped at red lights !.. a real hoot.
### There are loads of those IM Italy class C distortion box's out
there... mobile. The SGC 500w unit does an easy 800 w.
later... Jim VE7RF
>
Yahoo! Groups Links
|
Re: The real benefits of running mobile qro.
Dick I feel your pain¡? WOW those are serious batteries.?
Only 155# each plus the battery box you¡¯ll need to hold them.? That¡¯s
serious weight to haul around.
?
If you remember what I was saying earlier that voltage is
the important thing for the amps to crank.
?
For instance the SGC power cube was rated 10-18 volts.? I
was talking to a guy on 20 meters one day while I was driving somewhere and he
said, OH yeah hey how many volts do you have on your cube?
?
Well car voltage 13.8V under load¡? Well¡? He
says I have a homebrew power supply here and use the power cube at home, the
supply is set to run 18V right at the cubes max voltage.? It puts out 1000Watts
and runs cooler than if I run the voltage lower and put out 700.
?
I found that rather interesting.? I also wondered about
running cooler?? Didn¡¯t seem logical to me but I¡¯m open minded.?
Well I drag one of my units into the house and crank up my Astron 70 PS as far
as it will go¡? 15 volts.? Yes the amp cranked up another 150 watts out.?
Whether it ran cooler or not I just don¡¯t know but I sure liked the extra
power out.
?
This to me said a couple things.? Higher voltage is good, higher
current is bad and that my mobile install would benefit from MORE VOLTAGE
before it would benefit from higher current ability.
?
So obviously I beefed up the wiring from the front to the
back.? This stereo wiring is ?¡± across the copper.? Man this is serious
stuff¡? Plus how do we increase the voltage on the system?? I used to DRAG
RACE CARS and we had the same problem.? Without an alternator we¡¯d have
to charge the battery between rounds.? The battery people came up with a
special battery, a 16 Volt one with a 12 volt tap.? The Starter would run on
the 16 volts and the electronics would run on 12.? It required an 18V plus battery
charger to charge the battery. ?
?
Maybe you need to find one of these high end mobile car
stereo shops like what we have here.? These guys are next door to my wife¡¯s
place of employment.? So I pop in every now and then.? Well they have all the
fancy kits to BEEF up almost every kind of vehicle with more power.? Maybe there
is a special DUAL ALTERNATOR kit for your vehicle?? Or maybe a special few
hundred amp job?? Of course you pay them to do the work and you don¡¯t even
get your hands dirty.
?
This is a new truck here for me now and I will be adding all
sorts of stuff¡? What if a guy was to use a specially built ADDITIONAL
alternator (16 V or even 24V) and then had a special battery box in the rear of
batteries like my 16 volt ones or a pair of your mondo Trojan units in a 24 V
config.? Then either a 24 volt transistor or 50 volt for that matter¡? or
a 12 volt running on 16 volts could generate more power.
?
Of course, I also have the 5KW generator and have already discussed
running the gen and powering the amp.? At that point it could be any voltage amplifier.
?
Both work¡? Its just seriously getting the voltage up
that matters.? This really starts becoming critical as you pass that 1KW level.
?
BOB
?
From:
ham_amplifiers@... [mailto:ham_amplifiers@...] On Behalf Of PA3DUV
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007
3:13 PM
To: ham_amplifiers@...
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam]
[ham_amplifiers] Re: The real benefits of running mobile qro.
?
I tried the caps some years ago when I ran a single 500 watt
SGC amplifier.. Yes they work, but only at very short bursts.
With the two Henry SS750 amps @ 1 kW out each I had to ask
myself: where does the power come from.
Upgrading the alternator is not possible, the cab forward
design of my 2006 Toyota
has eaten all space in the engine compartment.?There is no way I could fit
two 200 amp alternators without major surgery.
So that leaves the 5 kW Honda genset on a bike rack or 2
hefty 150 pound AMG batteries as the only alternative.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January
08, 2007 7:01 PM
Subject: RE: Re:
[ham_amplifiers] Re: The real benefits of running qro.
Dick that
sounds good.? You¡¯ve spent some time on the project.
Here¡¯s
my thoughts on the DC buss¡? Lead Acid Batteries don¡¯t supply
much power.? They are native 12.8 VOLTS.? ?The Alternator
supplies all your voltage up to 14 Volts.? When you load down the circuit
past what the alternator can provide you start drawing from the
batteries.? Like at a stop sign.
If
you look at wattmeters between cruising and idling you¡¯ll see what I mean.
The
car stereo guys have really made ham radio mobile better¡
BUY
the 1/0 or 2/0 silicon stereo wire and run a positive AND A NEGATIVE back to
your amplifier location.? I don¡¯t know how that compares to your
70mm2 wire?? Also ground to the chassis at the amplifier.? I was
informed by the BIG mega watt stereo guys that vehicle grounds are not good
enough for serious current.? I¡¯ve noticed a difference.
I do
tie in right at the batteries under the hood myself.
Go to
as large an alternator as you can get and charge your batteries under the
hood.? The 2/0 wire will have very little voltage drop.? The best
things for back at the amplifiers are the new 5 FARAD capacitors.? They
need to be charged up very carefully.? These things are dangerous.?
They look just like a battery and have terminals for the big wire right on the
sides of them¡? They will charge UP TO your maximum voltage 14V and
not surface charge like a battery will¡ They provide 22AMP HOURS at full
voltage!? Where a battery sags down to 12.8 as soon as the alternator
loads the big caps slowly discharge from full voltage.
YES
these are all tricks I¡¯ve learned from these crazy stereo guys.?
They¡¯ve got shoot out trophies from the big national audio
shootouts.? Things like 163 DB loud stereos in a car stuff.? They are
drawing like 500 amps or more in a mobile unit.
I
also run the radio separate on another 4 gauge run from under the hood.? I
use all the fancy stereo fuses and distribution blocks.
I
ALSO use all these things in my shack to distribute power around my operating
desk from a pair of ASTRON RM-70¡¯s.? These stereo guys are great,
except when they drive down my street at midnight.
BOB DD
From: ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of PA3DUV
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007
6:21 AM
To: ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re:
[ham_amplifiers] Re: The real benefits of running qro.
Thanks
for the info. Nice to know that others are working in similar projects.
Please
find some pictures in the photo-section showing my 2 kW mobile setup.
I use two
Henry SS750 amps, into a 4 kW combiner.
The antenna
is a HiQ 5-80 HP version. To remote control the amps I build a break-out box,
so I can use one remote control?on 2 amplifiers. Two 70 mm2 neoprene
welding cables??are used to supply the DC to the amplifiers.
The power
supply needs to be beefed up. I will install two 230 Ah 70 kg AGM batteries in
the trunk. The current two 60 Ah are barely enough to power one SS750, together
with the alternator.
A single
?SS750 delivers 1100 watt output on 40-160 meters when connected to a
stiff DC rail.
-----
Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 12:38 PM
Subject: RE: [ham_amplifiers] Re: The real benefits of
running qro.
I HAD TWO
SGC POWER CUBES, over.. Work good but will trip out for anything
fast, always resetting them. The remote control heads are the only way.
Have new larger amp plan going together soon for the "new" pickup.
Recently
sold the remote head 706 and going to mount a 756PRO II. Between a couple
of my friends, we're having a mobile war. Total keep up with the Joneses.
One upped the anti when he bought one of those Chinese 4KW generators to
mount on the rear of his SUV on a hitch mount. I have a 5KW Makita I'm
considering mounting in the pickup bed next to the auxiliary fuel tank. :-)
Its sort of a pain when sitting in an RV park at 10PM idling the truck or
running a generator to keep power to the amp. Would be better if could just
jumper over to park power easily / amp runs full power on 120/240.
My buddies and I have all gone from Texas Bug Catchers to the big Predators.
My bug arced and caught on fire driving in the rain. Burning plastic parts
were hitting the windshield and it was too hard to change bands while
driving. Could never get my wife to change the taps while moving. It's a
real pain carrying a ladder in the box all the time.
I have a custom front mount on my crew dually to bolt on the PRED. (I pull
a fifth wheel or car trailer out the back depending on what I'm doing.) Its
really easy to tune now, just look through the coil cover and see how much
coil is exposed, with a little experience I can get within a couple clicks
every time.
My reasonable goal is consistent-reliable 1500 watts out mobile. The next
problem to overcome is amplifier heating. I don't want blowers running in
my ears.
BOB DD
-----Original Message-----
From: ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of pentalab
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 3:32 AM
To: ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ham_amplifiers] Re: The real benefits of running qro.
--- In ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com,
"bendeguz007" >
wrote:
>
>>
> SO WHAT, now you have EXTREAME QRO amp, they hear you: 200 dB over S-
9
>
> BUT you have NO antenna to HEAR them!
> I'd rather hear them, then talk to them with my 100W mobile with a
Hi- Q-HF antenna.
>
> Charlie, VA7HIQ/W6
### HI-Q traps are precisely why traps in tapped tri band yagi's
usually melt ! My buddy's TA-33 jr... with just a sb-220....
looked like u hit it with a propane torch... and all the fiberglass
coil forms were all melted. The new mosely pro- series
tribander's.. allthough rated at "5 kw" will handle 600 W ccs
max..
then they are toast too. The circulating current is so high.. the AL
wire used gets too hot.. and melts the forms.
### If u want real hi power mobile... 1/2 the problem is just
generating it. Of course Dahl makes a special 3 phase plate xfmr...
for the 11m mobile ops!
### The bare min u require for semi reliable 80-40m operation is 500
w. Going from 100w to 500w is 7 db.. a huge amount. On ssb
that's easy... since the average current is so low.
### Like Doc Bob sez.... then u gotta debug for RFI etc. I knew one
guy who had his big tube amp fired up in his mobile.... and going down
the highway... killed the ignition dead in a van that was in the next
lane over. He did it again to a few more vehicles[including one cop]
while stopped at red lights !.. a real hoot.
### There are loads of those IM Italy class C distortion box's out
there... mobile. The SGC 500w unit does an easy 800 w.
later... Jim VE7RF
>
Yahoo! Groups Links
|
Re: The real benefits of running qro.
Bob,
?
according to this table
?
70 mm2 is AWG 2/0
?
I run 2 conductors from the alternator to the
batteries /amplifiers in the trunk.
The cable is neoprene insulated welding cable, size
garden hose. Lugs are also from the welding shop. With my "old" setup the B+
voltage measured inside the Henry SS750 on the push pull amplifier board sagged
to 11.0 VDC. Mind you the voltage drop over the INTERNAL cabling including the
little 50 amp rated feedtru was?a massive 1000 millivolts.
?
After measurements the teenie weenie lug on the B+
cable and the little screws on the feedtru proved to be the culprit so PE1LRF
machined 2 massive feedtru insulators for me and I fitted both the B+ and mass
cables with 8 mm lugs and 8 mm bolts.
Also I redid the B+ distribution rail inside both
the SS750 amplifiers.
With one amp I can now keep the voltage at 12 V DC
loaded with a carrier. In SSB this will be a bit better due to the lower
average?current draw.?
?
Cheers, Dick
?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 7:01
PM
Subject: RE: Re: [ham_amplifiers] Re: The
real benefits of running qro.
Dick that sounds good.?
You¡¯ve spent some time on the project.
Here¡¯s my thoughts on the DC
buss¡? Lead Acid Batteries don¡¯t supply much power.? They are native
12.8 VOLTS.? ?The Alternator supplies all your voltage up to 14
Volts.? When you load down the circuit past what the alternator can
provide you start drawing from the batteries.? Like at a stop
sign.
If you look at wattmeters between
cruising and idling you¡¯ll see what I mean.
The car stereo guys have really
made ham radio mobile better¡
BUY the 1/0 or 2/0 silicon stereo
wire and run a positive AND A NEGATIVE back to your amplifier location.?
I don¡¯t know how that compares to your 70mm2 wire?? Also ground to the
chassis at the amplifier.? I was informed by the BIG mega watt stereo
guys that vehicle grounds are not good enough for serious current.? I¡¯ve
noticed a difference.
I do tie in right at the batteries
under the hood myself.
Go to as large an alternator as
you can get and charge your batteries under the hood.? The 2/0 wire will
have very little voltage drop.? The best things for back at the
amplifiers are the new 5 FARAD capacitors.? They need to be charged up
very carefully.? These things are dangerous.? They look just like a
battery and have terminals for the big wire right on the sides of them¡?
They will charge UP TO your maximum voltage 14V and not surface charge like a
battery will¡ They provide 22AMP HOURS at full voltage!? Where a battery
sags down to 12.8 as soon as the alternator loads the big caps slowly
discharge from full voltage.
YES these are all tricks I¡¯ve
learned from these crazy stereo guys.? They¡¯ve got shoot out trophies
from the big national audio shootouts.? Things like 163 DB loud stereos
in a car stuff.? They are drawing like 500 amps or more in a mobile
unit.
I also run the radio separate on
another 4 gauge run from under the hood.? I use all the fancy stereo
fuses and distribution blocks.
I ALSO use all these things in my
shack to distribute power around my operating desk from a pair of ASTRON
RM-70¡¯s.? These stereo guys are great, except when they drive down my
street at midnight.
BOB DD
From:
ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of PA3DUV
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 6:21
AM
To:
ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re:
[ham_amplifiers] Re: The real benefits of running
qro.
Thanks for the info. Nice to know
that others are working in similar projects.
Please find some pictures in the
photo-section showing my 2 kW mobile setup.
I use two Henry SS750 amps, into a
4 kW combiner.
The antenna is a HiQ 5-80 HP
version. To remote control the amps I build a break-out box, so I can use one
remote control?on 2 amplifiers. Two 70 mm2 neoprene welding
cables??are used to supply the DC to the
amplifiers.
The power supply needs to be
beefed up. I will install two 230 Ah 70 kg AGM batteries in the trunk. The
current two 60 Ah are barely enough to power one SS750, together with the
alternator.
A single ?SS750 delivers 1100
watt output on 40-160 meters when connected to a stiff DC
rail.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday,
January 08, 2007 12:38 PM
Subject: RE:
[ham_amplifiers] Re: The real benefits of running
qro.
I HAD
TWO SGC POWER CUBES, over.. Work good but will trip out for
anything
fast, always resetting them. The remote control heads are the
only way.
Have new larger amp plan going together soon for the "new"
pickup. Recently
sold the remote head 706 and going to mount a 756PRO II.
Between a couple
of my friends, we're having a mobile war. Total keep up
with the Joneses.
One upped the anti when he bought one of those
Chinese 4KW generators to
mount on the rear of his SUV on a hitch mount.
I have a 5KW Makita I'm
considering mounting in the pickup bed next to
the auxiliary fuel tank. :-)
Its sort of a pain when sitting in an RV
park at 10PM idling the truck or
running a generator to keep power to the
amp. Would be better if could just
jumper over to park power easily / amp
runs full power on 120/240.
My buddies and I have all gone from Texas
Bug Catchers to the big Predators.
My bug arced and caught on fire
driving in the rain. Burning plastic parts
were hitting the windshield
and it was too hard to change bands while
driving. Could never get my
wife to change the taps while moving. It's a
real pain carrying a ladder
in the box all the time.
I have a custom front mount on my crew
dually to bolt on the PRED. (I pull
a fifth wheel or car trailer out the
back depending on what I'm doing.) Its
really easy to tune now, just look
through the coil cover and see how much
coil is exposed, with a little
experience I can get within a couple clicks
every time.
My
reasonable goal is consistent-reliable 1500 watts out mobile. The next
problem to overcome is amplifier heating. I don't want blowers running
in
my ears.
BOB DD
-----Original Message-----
From: ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com]
On
Behalf Of pentalab
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 3:32 AM
To: ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com
Subject:
[ham_amplifiers] Re: The real benefits of running qro.
--- In ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com,
"bendeguz007" >
wrote:
>
>>
> SO WHAT, now you have EXTREAME QRO amp, they hear you: 200 dB over
S-
9
>
> BUT you have NO antenna to HEAR them!
> I'd
rather hear them, then talk to them with my 100W mobile with a
Hi- Q-HF
antenna.
>
> Charlie, VA7HIQ/W6
### HI-Q traps are
precisely why traps in tapped tri band yagi's
usually melt ! My buddy's
TA-33 jr... with just a sb-220....
looked like u hit it with a propane
torch... and all the fiberglass
coil forms were all melted. The new
mosely pro- series
tribander's.. allthough rated at "5 kw" will
handle 600 W ccs max..
then they are toast too. The circulating current
is so high.. the AL
wire used gets too hot.. and
melts the forms.
### If u want real hi power mobile... 1/2 the
problem is just
generating it. Of course Dahl makes a special 3 phase
plate xfmr...
for the 11m mobile ops!
### The bare min u require
for semi reliable 80-40m operation is 500
w. Going from 100w to 500w is
7 db.. a huge amount. On ssb
that's easy... since the average current is
so low.
### Like Doc Bob sez.... then u gotta debug for RFI etc. I
knew one
guy who had his big tube amp fired up in his mobile.... and
going down
the highway... killed the ignition dead in a van that was in
the next
lane over. He did it again to a few more vehicles[including one
cop]
while stopped at red lights !.. a real hoot.
### There are
loads of those IM Italy class C distortion box's out
there... mobile.
The SGC 500w unit does an easy 800 w.
later... Jim VE7RF
>
Yahoo! Groups
Links
|
